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7 hours ago, Ramrod said:

It won't apply to me, but I know so many over 70's who are very fit and active not just in leisure but as volunteers or workers. I know plenty of under 70's who are box-set binging slobs. 

Old doesn't mean stupid. If anything the qualities of older people are untapped by society. Some develop dementia but others have formidable intellect. More than Hancock, certainly. 

But so far, the biggest indicator of death is age. Various graphs and charts have been produced but all indicate the risk of death is dramatically higher in the 70+ demographic.

image.png.837b16941bd61c45bce95e12854e10f3.png

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On 13/03/2020 at 07:52, Fuzzar said:

Can I suggest just the one? They're spreading like wildfire.

A novel idea Fuzzar, but this is NOT working. Not one bit...

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8 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

But so far, the biggest indicator of death is age. Various graphs and charts have been produced but all indicate the risk of death is dramatically higher in the 70+ demographic.

image.png.837b16941bd61c45bce95e12854e10f3.png

That does not take into account their health at the time.

A better analysis would be that of existing health conditions.

Yes, the older you get the more likely you are to have those health conditions, but the risk relates to those conditions rather than just age itself.

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an interesting read on what preperations are being undertaken

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/army-likely-to-embed-medics-in-nhs-hospitals-to-help-fight-coronavirus-operation-broadshare

and I am sure once the 'hysteria' has quitened down we will see a very resilient and commonsense approach being taken by people.

Perhaps a chance to see the other side of 'human nature' (whatever that is)

I have just rooted out my aunts old WRVS uniform and am ready to help out in any tea kitchen that is set up.

Tea and biscuits served to the hopeless...............with the odd copy of Readers Wives should supplies run out

🎶 they'll be fat birds on the cover

with large cheeks bent over 🎶

 

(with apologies to Til 😉)

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40 minutes ago, Bill said:

That does not take into account their health at the time.

A better analysis would be that of existing health conditions.

Yes, the older you get the more likely you are to have those health conditions, but the risk relates to those conditions rather than just age itself.

You're obviously right but the government will need some easy 'measure' of who is/ is not vulnerable if it goes this route. Unworkable otherwise.

Age at 70 is as good a simple measure as any (it needs to be > retirement age etc)

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What kind of leadership is this? 

People "should"?

This weak, insipid, pillock is  not fit to be leader. People would be happy to be told one way or the other. But to leave it up to individuals is a crime.

And he keeps on saying "Britain leads". For goodness sake man, do the decent thing and make a proper decision.

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A friend of ours is booked for Majorca in April.  But the tour company are not cancelling just yet and instead keep asking if she wants to cancel.

If Boris had some bottle and made the right decision she could cancel and get her money back.

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14 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

You're obviously right but the government will need some easy 'measure' of who is/ is not vulnerable if it goes this route. Unworkable otherwise.

Age at 70 is as good a simple measure as any (it needs to be > retirement age etc)

The reality is that the best that can be done at the moment is containment.

As the virus spreads so more will die/need care. It is likely that a higher percentage of those will be in the 70 plus age group. on the basis of existing conditions.

So the idea is to try to spread out those into managable levels, and avoid what Italy is going through. An almost unmanageable 'bubble'.

This recognises that there will not be a vaccine that will stop folk contracting the virus. Almost all will survive - it is those needing treatment that will cause the problems and stretch the resources.

Much as delays on motorways are now better managed by slowing down the speed of vehicles thereby reducing the numbers arriving at the delay point.

This needs to be explained - just as should the measures listed above so as to reduce the panic because of the 'unknown'.

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Johnson "Avoid pubs, clubs, theatres and other such social venues"

And then not close them?

Incompetent.

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13 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Johnson "Avoid pubs, clubs, theatres and other such social venues"

And then not close them?

Incompetent.

Make the decision yourself, government cannot save you.

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1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Make the decision yourself, government cannot save you.

No argument from me on that point Ricardo - but its not leadership is it!

I'm still thinking that actually they want most of the young and fit to get it sooner rather than later and then (hopefully) recover whilst protecting the more vulnerable. I suspect that may be wishful thinking though.

I wonder what 'acceptable' casualties are?

 

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People politicising this doesn’t really help in my opinion, some of the questions that have just been asked by the press have been pretty stupid too

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It isn't that easy for some people to volunteer Ricardo. Financially they need to be assured.

Already Virgin are asking people to go without wages. It's easy for us. Our pensions will still be paid.

If sport was cancelled and pubs and cinemas closed by the Government then it makes it much clearer. If someone who works in a pub stays away, can they claim? 

This is an Eton Mess.

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How can it not be political Fenway? This charlatan wanted to be leader but he hasn't the ability to lead.

In a crisis, people need to be told not given a choice!

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1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

It isn't that easy for some people to volunteer Ricardo. Financially they need to be assured.

Already Virgin are asking people to go without wages. It's easy for us. Our pensions will still be paid.

If sport was cancelled and pubs and cinemas closed by the Government then it makes it much clearer. If someone who works in a pub stays away, can they claim? 

This is an Eton Mess.

I think that's one part of it - the government is clearly on the hook if it forces venues to close / cancel (and their insurances) but leaving it ambiguous ? No I think uniquely in the UK they hope younger people will have virus parties!

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Just now, Yellow Fever said:

No argument from me on that point Ricardo - but its not leadership is it!

I'm still thinking that actually they want most of the young and fit to get it sooner rather than later and then (hopefully) recover whilst protecting the more vulnerable. I suspect that may be wishful thinking though.

I wonder what 'acceptable' casualties are?

 

As you know, I have been following developments on this subject longer than most. I have watched what has happened in the countries where this started and the actions taken. I have also followed the analysis of the statistics freely available on the internet. It was enough to convince me five weeks ago that I had to take action myself.

I have long since made my own arrangements and tried to convince others of the urgency, not always successfully as has been very apparent on this thread.

Do what you have to do to protect yourselves, no health service on earth is equiped to deal with what is coming. I do not trust the politicians, i do not trust the CMO. I trust my own judgement and in the light of that I trust the actions I have taken.

 

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3 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

How can it not be political Fenway? This charlatan wanted to be leader but he hasn't the ability to lead.

In a crisis, people need to be told not given a choice!

So because pubs haven’t been closed down by the government you’ll still go ? There was plenty of guidance there today, people should their use common sense with it

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45 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

A friend of ours is booked for Majorca in April.  But the tour company are not cancelling just yet and instead keep asking if she wants to cancel.

If Boris had some bottle and made the right decision she could cancel and get her money back.

I'm in a similar position. I'm due to fly to Bulgaria for skiing on Wednesday, but the slopes in bansko as well as all the restaurants, bars etc. Have been shut by the government over there. The FCO guidelines aren't don't travel yet so the travel agent and travel insurance people are both basically saying that there's no reason for a refund/claim as I could still fly there and sit in my hotel room for 4 nights...

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Just now, ricardo said:

As you know, I have been following developments on this subject longer than most. I have watched what has happened in the countries where this started and the actions taken. I have also followed the analysis of the statistics freely available on the internet. It was enough to convince me five weeks ago that I had to take action myself.

I have long since made my own arrangements and tried to convince others of the urgency, not always successfully as has been very apparent on this thread.

Do what you have to do to protect yourselves, no health service on earth is equiped to deal with what is coming. I do not trust the politicians, i do not trust the CMO. I trust my own judgement and in the light of that I trust the actions I have taken.

 

Agreed. I am just disappointed by the lack of clear leadership. In one of my earliest posts on this subject I actually stated I'd rather have this sooner rather than later - take it on the chin - as I was doubtful that any UK intervention led by Johnson would be effective.

However - I gave Johnson the benefit of the doubt, took him at his word - prove me wrong.

Rather unsurprisingly both Johnson and the UK's methods to date look to be ineffective. My guess is Philadelphia now.

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It isn't the punters Fenway, it's the staff.

We run a small family catering business and the trade has plumetted. We are trying to stay open so that the staff get paid. If we were forced to close, we would then be able to claim hardship and be able to pay the staff in full.

If we take a unilateral decision, then everyone has no assurance.

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1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

Agreed. I am just disappointed by the lack of clear leadership. In one of my earliest posts on this subject I actually stated I'd rather have this sooner rather than later - take it on the chin - as I was doubtful that any UK intervention led by Johnson would be effective.

Unfortunately I am in a vulnerable age group and have a compromised  immune system thanks to Non Hogkins so obviously I dont want to take it on the chin, or anywhere else.

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43 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Johnson "Avoid pubs, clubs, theatres and other such social venues"

And then not close them?

Incompetent.

"Other such social venues"....I assume football is included in this cover-all sentence?

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35 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Make the decision yourself, government cannot save you.

Exactly, why people need to be sheep is beyond me, if you’re at risk, self isolate! It’s a no brainer, why do you need to have martial rule when it’s not needed.

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6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

You are right Ricardo. But I'm afraid most have to be led. Decisions have to be made for them.

I perfectly understand that. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Unfortunately I am in a vulnerable age group and have a compromised  immune system thanks to Non Hogkins so obviously I dont want to take it on the chin, or anywhere else.

I don't wish it on anybody but I had a theory that if you had to get it then getting it early the NHS would be better equipped ! Be 1 in a 100 not 1 in 100,000

Kind of where my 'virus party' thoughts came from!

I suspect we'll all get it in the wallet though!

Do you think that the CMO etc can actually 'control or throttle/****' this disease to keep it near but just under NHS collapse/saturation levels?'. That's what their strategy seem to me based on.

Edited by Yellow Fever
r e t a r d seems to be XXXX word !

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In your own case you might be correct. When services are overwhelmed it won't be pretty.

I think the CMO and everyone else with the stats know they cannot keep the lid on it. If action had been taken a month ago with travel bans we might as an island, have had a better chance. nb Taiwan, Singapore, but its too late now. We have always been behind the curve.

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12 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Unfortunately I am in a vulnerable age group and have a compromised  immune system thanks to Non Hogkins so obviously I dont want to take it on the chin, or anywhere else.

Rightly as you say, it is down to the individual as your condition has dictated The information is out there - and is fairly easily understodd.

The problems with folk not wanting to take responsibilty or rrcognise that when stuff like this happens cooperative action is far better than selfish acts.

That is not contradictory either. the best time to find a life jacket and understand what the procedure is should be before the boat hits the iceberg. That way you are not trampling over everybody in a mad rush.

If food were to become so scarce then a few extra bags of dried pasta or rice is not going to be of any use. No more than taking slow steps climbing up to the gallows.

So maybe a better idea would be to inform yourself and fully recognise where your 'place' is. I don't need unnecessary 'supplies' squirreled away in my cupboards. That is not being over cautious. That is taken resources away from those who will really need those. And common sense should tell you that if this is not dealt with then ultimately we all suffer. Irrespective of what we have hoarded.

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