Corona Virus main thread

[horsefly 4,301]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2256986-england-wales-had-most-excess-deaths-in-europes-covid-19-first-wave/?utm_campaign=RSS|NSNS&utm_source=NSNS&utm_medium=RSS&utm_content=news

 

"The three worst-hit countries each saw around 100 “excess deaths” per 100,000 people between February and May, which researchers say was probably due to governments being slow to implement lockdowns and scale up testing and tracing."

 

Johnson's dire performance at PMQs show that nothing will change on this score. I have no doubt a circuit break lockdown will happen soon because of the exponential growth of the virus. But the delay in doing this will mean it will be less effective and result in many unnecessary deaths. This is an appallingly ineffective and morally repugnant government 

 

[Well b back 3,217]

Unfortunately this is how Liverpool ( a small minority I appreciate ) have shown us they don’t care. Track and Trace all of them and fine them £1000’s.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-54535481

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

5 minutes ago, horsefly said:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2256986-england-wales-had-most-excess-deaths-in-europes-covid-19-first-wave/?utm_campaign=RSS|NSNS&utm_source=NSNS&utm_medium=RSS&utm_content=news

 

"The three worst-hit countries each saw around 100 “excess deaths” per 100,000 people between February and May, which researchers say was probably due to governments being slow to implement lockdowns and scale up testing and tracing."

 

Johnson's dire performance at PMQs show that nothing will change on this score. I have no doubt a circuit break lockdown will happen soon because of the exponential growth of the virus. But the delay in doing this will mean it will be less effective and result in many unnecessary deaths. This is an appallingly ineffective and morally repugnant government 

 

We could also argue that it is morally repugnant to see someone lose their job due to a lockdown, resulting them in losing their home because they cannot make the mortgage payments or rent, forced into debt and their children taken into care because we decide it is more important to keep an eighty-four year old grandad alive for a few more months. 

Who has the right to life? These are the moral questions that a government has to answer and it impossible to provide an answer that satisfies everybody at the same time. Choices have to be made. I'm glad that I don't carry the burden of making those choices as the burden must be intolerable. I just try to do the right thing with social distancing, wearing masks, and washing hands. That's the usually the most we can do. 

[horsefly 4,301]

4 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Unfortunately this is how Liverpool ( a small minority I appreciate ) have shown us they don’t care. Track and Trace all of them and fine them £1000’s.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-54535481

I agree, but only when Dominic Cummings, Robert Jenrick, Stanley Johnson, and jeremy Corbyn are also fined.

[horsefly 4,301]

Just now, Rock The Boat said:

We could also argue that it is morally repugnant to see someone lose their job due to a lockdown, resulting them in losing their home because they cannot make the mortgage payments or rent, forced into debt and their children taken into care because we decide it is more important to keep an eighty-four year old grandad alive for a few more months. 

Who has the right to life? These are the moral questions that a government has to answer and it impossible to provide an answer that satisfies everybody at the same time. Choices have to be made. I'm glad that I don't carry the burden of making those choices as the burden must be intolerable. I just try to do the right thing with social distancing, wearing masks, and washing hands. That's the usually the most we can do. 

A Lock-down has to come with a financial package ensuring people are not financially punished

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

8 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Unfortunately this is how Liverpool ( a small minority I appreciate ) have shown us they don’t care. Track and Trace all of them and fine them £1000’s.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-54535481

Put them in detention camps so that they cannot infect the rest of us. Seal up their homes so that they can't creep back undetected. The Chinese had the right idea back in January. 

[Well b back 3,217]

2 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I agree, but only when Dominic Cummings, Robert Jenrick, Stanley Johnson, and jeremy Corbyn are also fined.

I will go with that lol.

It does show however how Boris is now being laughed at. Whatever we think of Sturgeon and the leaders in Wales and Northern Ireland, people ( in the main ) are respecting their leadership.

[Well b back 3,217]

Boris follows the science ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54528983

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

2 minutes ago, horsefly said:

A Lock-down has to come with a financial package ensuring people are not financially punished

Financial packages certainly help but they can't prevent businesses going bankrupt in the long term. There comes a point where it is impossible to provide financial support as the country is overloaded with debt that would take generations to pay back. It is a moral question and I don't know the answer but is it fair to burden future generations in order to prolong the life of those in their 90th decade?  When these people were born they had a life expectancy of late 60s so already they are well into extra time.  I understand that it is a bit off to talk about the need to face up to mortality but at the end of the day that is what the question boils down to. 

[horsefly 4,301]

1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

Financial packages certainly help but they can't prevent businesses going bankrupt in the long term. There comes a point where it is impossible to provide financial support as the country is overloaded with debt that would take generations to pay back. It is a moral question and I don't know the answer but is it fair to burden future generations in order to prolong the life of those in their 90th decade?  When these people were born they had a life expectancy of late 60s so already they are well into extra time.  I understand that it is a bit off to talk about the need to face up to mortality but at the end of the day that is what the question boils down to. 

Lock-downs and their concomitant financial packages are there to support individuals and businesses through to the period when we have gained sufficient control over the virus (e.g. a widely available vaccine). Delaying the circuit-breaker lock-down will see viable businesses go bust. The younger generation needs the survival of these businesses for their future too. Allowing them to go bust does not help future generations.

[The Real Buh 3,444]

Just imagine, unironically, calling for more nationwide lockdown. Imagine being that much of a f@&£ing idiot.

[Well b back 3,217]

On the local news we have just had reported how Birmingham are doing their bit for the spike and herd immunity. This is horrifying !
’ Several home tests given to students had ALREADY been used ‘ Birmingham Council are yet to apologise. ‘ Students initially thought it was amusing until they realised they could now have contracted coronavirus from the very tests that were given to them so they could leave quarantine ‘

[Well b back 3,217]

49 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Financial packages certainly help but they can't prevent businesses going bankrupt in the long term. There comes a point where it is impossible to provide financial support as the country is overloaded with debt that would take generations to pay back. It is a moral question and I don't know the answer but is it fair to burden future generations in order to prolong the life of those in their 90th decade?  When these people were born they had a life expectancy of late 60s so already they are well into extra time.  I understand that it is a bit off to talk about the need to face up to mortality but at the end of the day that is what the question boils down to. 

With all due respect it is no longer people dieing now it is about the uncertainty of what we don’t know. There is more evidence by the day of long term effects however young or old or healthy you are. Until we know the long term outcomes nobody really knows how Covid will be remembered.

[horsefly 4,301]

1 hour ago, The Real Buh said:

Just imagine, unironically, calling for more nationwide lockdown. Imagine being that much of a f@&£ing idiot.

Just imagine being so dumb as to write a comment like that. But I will pass on your comment to all the SAGE scientists who called for just such a lockdown. I'm sure such an acute scientific analysis will change their minds.

[sonyc 5,526]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

Financial packages certainly help but they can't prevent businesses going bankrupt in the long term. There comes a point where it is impossible to provide financial support as the country is overloaded with debt that would take generations to pay back. It is a moral question and I don't know the answer but is it fair to burden future generations in order to prolong the life of those in their 90th decade?  When these people were born they had a life expectancy of late 60s so already they are well into extra time.  I understand that it is a bit off to talk about the need to face up to mortality but at the end of the day that is what the question boils down to. 

Well they managed to support the banking crisis didn't they?

And there are simple schemes being operated abroad. They realise that this is a longer haul. One example below:

Coronavirus: Could UK adopt German pay top-up scheme? - BBC News

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54090122

It was a very solid offer by Sunak at the outset but isn't adequate given the tailing off of support. Better to keep folk and businesses going ....the costs of unemployment will be massive. This government is beginning to lose a grip on economic measures as well as it's response to health. The latter is very complicated and would be for any government. The latter is far more in the government's control.

 

[The Real Buh 3,444]

25 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Just imagine being so dumb as to write a comment like that. But I will pass on your comment to all the SAGE scientists who called for just such a lockdown. I'm sure such an acute scientific analysis will change their minds.

Hey, it’s the guy that said he’d cheer on Kier Starmer nailing his, was it mother or grandmother?

it usually takes longer for a labour leader to commit political suicide but Starmer has gone in for the kill early here. Mind you, he was head of the CPS so he’s just decided to “go pro” with being a f@£)ing crook by becoming an MP.

SAGE scientists aren’t concerned with the wider economic problems that will undoubtedly cause far worse problems than the virus itself. 
 

political point scoring right now is completely sick. I hate the lot of them don’t get me wrong but right now “down to earth” Sir Kier is top of my list of domestic political morons. If we were about to storm the beach of Normandy Sir Kier would be trying to find a political angle to attack the government with. He’d nail your female family members while you clapped, as you previously explained in great detail , and then he’d sell them for a seat in the north of England. He’s next level sick. I can see it in his beady, barely human expression.

[horsefly 4,301]

2 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Hey, it’s the guy that said he’d cheer on Kier Starmer nailing his, was it mother or grandmother?

it usually takes longer for a labour leader to commit political suicide but Starmer has gone in for the kill early here. Mind you, he was head of the CPS so he’s just decided to “go pro” with being a f@£)ing crook by becoming an MP.

SAGE scientists aren’t concerned with the wider economic problems that will undoubtedly cause far worse problems than the virus itself. 
 

political point scoring right now is completely sick. I hate the lot of them don’t get me wrong but right now “down to earth” Sir Kier is top of my list of domestic political morons. If we were about to storm the beach of Normandy Sir Kier would be trying to find a political angle to attack the government with. He’d nail your female family members while you clapped, as you previously explained in great detail , and then he’d sell them for a seat in the north of England. He’s next level sick. I can see it in his beady, barely human expression.

Just no competing with such true genius

[The Real Buh 3,444]

4 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Just no competing with such true genius

“Labour good...Everyone else racist and stupid”

[ricardo 7,395]

I expect we will see a small drop today now that the weekend updates have caught up.

 

Meanwhile lets have another graph, just for perspective.

Edited October 14, 2020 by ricardo

[Well b back 3,217]

Here’s the story I told you about earlier. Not sure which one to believe the tests were intact still says Birmingham, No they weren’t say the students we used them ( several different sources ).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-54539328

[ricardo 7,395]

265k  tests

19724 - 137 positives up, deaths down

 

Inpatients  4650 up by 283 since yesterday

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Yesterdays European.

Italy   5901 - 41

France 12993 - 117

Spain  7118 - 70

Germany  4585 - 19

[ricardo 7,395]

[horsefly 4,301]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/no-good-epidemiological-reasons-to-delay-circuit-break-which-could-save-thousands-of-lives-sage-scientists-say/ar-BB1a15Gl?ocid=msedgntp

"No good epidemiological reasons to delay' circuit break which could save thousands of lives, SAGE scientists say"

 

[Yellow Fever 3,793]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

I expect we will see a small drop today now that the weekend updates have caught up.

 

Meanwhile lets have another graph, just for perspective.

 

35 minutes ago, ricardo said:

265k  tests

19724 - 137 positives up, deaths down

 

Inpatients  4650 up by 283 since yesterday

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Yesterdays European.

Italy   5901 - 41

France 12993 - 117

Spain  7118 - 70

Germany  4585 - 19

 

That's an oops!

Deaths much the same but cases and hospitalizations up.

 

🙂

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Yellow Fever

[ricardo 7,395]

England is at peak or very close to it looking at those increases.

Edited October 14, 2020 by ricardo

[The Real Buh 3,444]

Is Sir Kier “let all the pedos out of jail time” Starmer going to be hauled back to the Houses of Parliament for lying in prime ministers questions this morning?

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/furious-bolton-council-leader-demands-19102438

[sonyc 5,526]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/14/theres-a-financial-incentive-for-councils-to-lock-down/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

A view on Tier 3 and funding for local administrations.

[Van wink 2,994]

57 minutes ago, sonyc said:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/14/theres-a-financial-incentive-for-councils-to-lock-down/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

A view on Tier 3 and funding for local administrations.

Yeh, not a new phenomenon though sonyc, as you probably know we now have Civil Penalties being issued by Local Housing Authorities for offences under the Housing Act, these can be up to £30K per offence and the money goes to finance Local Authority private sector enforcement. Some of the recent high level fines seem to be beginning to have the effect of focusing Landlords minds.

[Van wink 2,994]

5 hours ago, horsefly said:

I agree, but only when Dominic Cummings, Robert Jenrick, Stanley Johnson, and jeremy Corbyn are also fined.

And all those clowns who refuse to wear masks eh horsefly?

[ricardo 7,395]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

And all those clowns who refuse to wear masks eh horsefly?

Do you think Billy has bought one by now?