Corona Virus main thread

[ricardo 7,445]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

Mrs KG got her vulnerable kit today. Very poorly packaged.

Yes, must admit it was a bit sub par.

I still don't know if I am to await a call from NHS or make my own arrangement for the fourth dose. I am now eleven and a half weeks after dose three.

[Well b back 3,309]

5 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Yes, must admit it was a bit sub par.

I still don't know if I am to await a call from NHS or make my own arrangement for the fourth dose. I am now eleven and a half weeks after dose three.

Most turn up and ask for dose 4 which the lead nurse rules on. You must however take your letter or proof with you. The vaccination record will need to be entered manually as there is currently no column for fourth dose, but a button is pressed to confirm you are immuno suppressed 

[ricardo 7,445]

Just now, Well b back said:

Most turn up and ask for dose 4 which the lead nurse rules on. You must however take your letter or proof with you. The vaccination record will need to be entered manually as there is currently no column for fourth dose, but a button is pressed to confirm you are immuno suppressed 

I got a letter for the third one which I had to take with me but have heard nothing about a fourth one yet other than what has been said on the news. All I have seen officially is Van Tam saying extremely vulnerable will need a fourth but not before three months from third.

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

I think that is what I hinted to Ricardo a few days ago. Yes, it seems the 4th jab is live virus 😉.  The phrase kill or cure came to mind.

About 98% of population now seem to have some level of immunity. We were both against opening up in the summer but in retrospect they may have called it right.

[Yellow Fever 3,851]

I'm not convinced of that VW but I don't really want to argue this point too much as it seems in bad taste to me but.....

Omicron seems to be likely to infect everybody but for most is mild. Sadly opening up on July may have resulted in say 1000 deaths week since then (Delta) on average for 5 or 6 months which even if 1/2 could of been saved were needless i.e 10 to 20,000 needless deaths as we'd be in the same position now with or without opening up it seems. The argument also holds for our European friends who had very low deaths over the summer and autumn but may be having Omicron spikes now.

However we will only know the full details about Omicron as it now gets into the elderly and vulnerable - by far most jnfectioan so far have been in the kids and younger cohorts so some caution needed.

13 minutes ago, Van wink said:

About 98% of population now seem to have some level of immunity. We were both against opening up in the summer but in retrospect they may have called it right.

By the way I was half joking with Ricardo but a 4th jab for most would be short term redundant if as seems likely or near certain we all catch or are challenged by Covid first !

Edited January 7, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[Capt. Pants 4,330]

2 hours ago, Essjayess said:

Maybe, just maybe, hopefully daily new cases are now at their peak with London showing a bit of a decrease and perhaps the rest of the nation going same route  in next week or two. Hospitals hopefully  are nearing a peak, at least partial good news on that ventilator front.

I recall the Chief Medical Officer saying 2 or 3 weeks back how these  numbers would rise very sharply as indeed they have, he also mentioned  followed by a speedy decline, based on what occured in South Africa. But i have some doubts about that due to the differences in pop. density here and some other factors. Any decline would of course be welcome but i feel the decrease factor will be a good deal slower here..thats just my general thoughts though, time will give us the answer to that outcome.

The superspreaders returned to school this weak and it wouldn't surprise if we see another uptick in new cases.

[benchwarmer 625]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

Presumably you have stated that you don't want any medical treatment that has been invented in the last 30 years or so? Who knows what the long term effects could be?

Your presumption says more about you than me.  I have no objection to being a guinea pig as long as I know it and can give consent.  As it happens, a few months ago I was going to volunteer for a clinical trial.  I got as far as having an initial blood test but didn't fit all the criteria. 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by benchwarmer

[Van wink 2,994]

46 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

However we will only know the full details about Omicron as it now gets into the elderly and vulnerable - by far most jnfectioan so far have been in the kids and younger cohorts so some caution needed.

 

Yes of course, but was inevitable that it would get into this demographic with the infectivity advantage that it has. The question is if it does cause serious I’ll-health in this group will the health system be able to cope.

[Tetteys Jig 831]

12 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Chester FC in a spot of bother

 

shows what a joke the whole mitigation strategy is tbh. Wales slightly differing rules to the UK hasn't made a jot of difference, just causes inconvenience and will rile up the deniers/conspiracists further.

[The Real Buh 3,493]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-fourth-booster-shot-could-be-needed-by-autumn-moderna-boss-says-12510657
 

who does think we’ll need the booster shot? The CEO of moderna of course!

Ultra-grifter and already multi-billionaire Stephane Bancel admits the third jab is pretty crap and won’t work for long. Can you imagine the CEO of Ford coming out and saying “yeah, you’ll need a new fiesta in 6 months, this one’s crap and won’t work properly after that, that’ll be 75 billion pounds please”

Imagine only having 3 helicopter pads in your private island? What an embarrassment for him. This guy absolutely stinks of Epsteins island tbf. 

[Van wink 2,994]

13 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I'm not convinced of that VW but I don't really want to argue this point too much as it seems in bad taste to me but.....

Omicron seems to be likely to infect everybody but for most is mild. Sadly opening up on July may have resulted in say 1000 deaths week since then (Delta) on average for 5 or 6 months which even if 1/2 could of been saved were needless i.e 10 to 20,000 needless deaths as we'd be in the same position now with or without opening up it seems. The argument also holds for our European friends who had very low deaths over the summer and autumn but may be having Omicron spikes now.

I’m not quite sure why it’s bad taste, I was just expressing a view that we may be better off now because of immunity previously acquired, I would have thought that’s a good thing.  
Each excess death is a tragedy, whether there were 20000 as a result of opening up in the summer I’m not sure, but I must say when I opposed it at the time I was expecting a level of carnage that didn’t materialise. The failure for me was a level of complacency that crept in regarding vaccination. None of this is black and white of course and choices are the least worse option.

[Van wink 2,994]

10 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

shows what a joke the whole mitigation strategy is tbh. Wales slightly differing rules to the UK hasn't made a jot of difference, just causes inconvenience and will rile up the deniers/conspiracists further.

Wales have done pretty well so far but Drakeford has it wrong on this occasion imo, cases are rising rapidly there despite the restrictions, the NHS in Wales is in a worse state than it even is here so I can understand why they are so desperate to slow down the spread and am very sympathetic to that, but I just dont think its going to work and the economic and social costs could be significant eg grass roots rugby that depends on funding from the WRU, which in turn gets a significant income stream from International Rugby.

[Badger 2,415]

13 hours ago, benchwarmer said:

Your presumption says more about you than me.  I have no objection to being a guinea pig as long as I know it and can give consent.  As it happens, a few months ago I was going to volunteer for a clinical trial.  I got as far as having an initial blood test but didn't fit all the criteria. 

So if you don't mind new treatments why are you making such a fuss?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

17 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Wales have done pretty well so far but Drakeford has it wrong on this occasion imo, cases are rising rapidly there despite the restrictions, the NHS in Wales is in a worse state than it even is here so I can understand why they are so desperate to slow down the spread and am very sympathetic to that, but I just dont think its going to work and the economic and social costs could be significant eg grass roots rugby that depends on funding from the WRU, which in turn gets a significant income stream from International Rugby.

Agreed. There is little point in restrictions if they don't work.

I do wonder why this isn't a UK Parliament situation than leaving it to the devolved. We have different amounts of cases throughout England so why are Wales and the others different? And the farce with Chester seems to bear that out.

[Essjayess 307]

After having made our booster appointments as long ago as December 1st the day had finally arrived for myself and my special needs son to get our booster shot.  Having developed a  pretty darn painful back strain in the past few days i literally hobbled to the city central vax centre, not helped by steady rain and holding up a brolly that increased my back ache, expecting to stand in a que outside awaiting my turn.

But no, no line of people, straight inside, straight into the room for the booster after a couple of questions, jab done, not even a 15 minute after wait as that it seems "has been relaxed for Pfizer type jabs". I casually asked the medical person giving us the  booster how quiet it seemed..she replied that yes, more than half of the appointments so far today had not showed or had cancelled..often down to "bad weather".

I'm amazed by that if it has  even a semblance of truth, a dose of  back pain and  some typical January rain was not going to stop me  from getting my booster.  Jab done, back home, a little effort rewarded,  can now relax and enjoy  rest of the weekend or at least until City get Hammered later on.

[benchwarmer 625]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

So if you don't mind new treatments why are you making such a fuss?

I don't mind new treatments that have been i) properly trialled and ii) are of proven effectiveness.  Neither of these criteria apply in the case of third (fourth, fifth . . .) covid jabs.  Vaccination isn't a treatment btw, it's a preventative.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by benchwarmer

[Well b back 3,309]

17 hours ago, ricardo said:

I got a letter for the third one which I had to take with me but have heard nothing about a fourth one yet other than what has been said on the news. All I have seen officially is Van Tam saying extremely vulnerable will need a fourth but not before three months from third.

Ring 119 for advice

[Well b back 3,309]

1 hour ago, Essjayess said:

After having made our booster appointments as long ago as December 1st the day had finally arrived for myself and my special needs son to get our booster shot.  Having developed a  pretty darn painful back strain in the past few days i literally hobbled to the city central vax centre, not helped by steady rain and holding up a brolly that increased my back ache, expecting to stand in a que outside awaiting my turn.

But no, no line of people, straight inside, straight into the room for the booster after a couple of questions, jab done, not even a 15 minute after wait as that it seems "has been relaxed for Pfizer type jabs". I casually asked the medical person giving us the  booster how quiet it seemed..she replied that yes, more than half of the appointments so far today had not showed or had cancelled..often down to "bad weather".

I'm amazed by that if it has  even a semblance of truth, a dose of  back pain and  some typical January rain was not going to stop me  from getting my booster.  Jab done, back home, a little effort rewarded,  can now relax and enjoy  rest of the weekend or at least until City get Hammered later on.

It’s getting worrying, with millions still to get boosters, I have been sat in an almost empty hub all morning, ( no customers lots of staff ). Let’s pray that efficacy for serious illness holds up with 2 doses or we could be travelling backwards fast at the end of the summer.

[Tetteys Jig 831]

4 minutes ago, Well b back said:

It’s getting worrying, with millions still to get boosters, I have been sat in an almost empty hub all morning, ( no customers lots of staff ). Let’s pray that efficacy for serious illness holds up with 2 doses or we could be travelling backwards fast at the end of the summer.

why would it take that long?

[Well b back 3,309]

2 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

why would it take that long?

I was just thinking summer is usually better and plenty of omicron now to boost up 2 doses as we know up until 6 months 2 doses is good for serious illness, but we just don’t know after that, so you could be right come March.

We are beginning to believe those that wanted the boosters joined massive queues many of the rest won’t bother until they need it for travel / domestic passport. 

[Yellow Fever 3,851]

3 hours ago, Van wink said:

I’m not quite sure why it’s bad taste, I was just expressing a view that we may be better off now because of immunity previously acquired, I would have thought that’s a good thing.  
Each excess death is a tragedy, whether there were 20000 as a result of opening up in the summer I’m not sure, but I must say when I opposed it at the time I was expecting a level of carnage that didn’t materialise. The failure for me was a level of complacency that crept in regarding vaccination. None of this is black and white of course and choices are the least worse option.

Perhaps misunderstood - 

We opened up fully in July whereas I would of kept some limited restrictions (i.e. mask wearing in shops) certainly as we entered into the autumn and the schools returned. It would of helped keep some downward pressure on the numbers and stopped complacency. However the argument at the time seemed to be to get a surge in the late summer so as not to overwhelm the NHS later on, plus an economic even political one. So the NHS ran hot - c. 1000 deaths a week but no huge surge in (vulnerable) cases - stabilized at circa 30 to 50 K/day -  overall a slow rise and pre Omicron the NHS wasn't overwhelmed. The concern against this policy at the time was that it was a gamble - not overwhelming the NHS and no new variants to render it meaningless. 

However - although the running hot strategy didn't explode the NHS (and didn't buy time for more boosters) we all seemed 'happy' to accept the accumulating deaths and cases that we could of done more about but choose not too, it all it seems it has come to naught with the emergence of Omicron. Omicron doesn't much care about past infections and simply turned the page on Delta. Even Ricardo pointed out that Omicron may 'save' some European counties from an otherwise previously suppressed Delta spike. Delta 'banked' its winnings before we could recover them.

So the government gambled last summer and autumn, won one but lost one at the cost of thousands of lives but has ended up in pretty much the same place as would of been had it tried to save those lives with what amounted to plan B earlier.

It interesting even today with the governments previous mantra of not overwhelming the NHS to ask exactly what they would call the state of the NHS today - let alone in 2 weeks (army, major incidents etc.). It's the same do nothing gamble.

     

[Van wink 2,994]

31 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Perhaps misunderstood - 

We opened up fully in July whereas I would of kept some limited restrictions (i.e. mask wearing in shops) certainly as we entered into the autumn and the schools returned. It would of helped keep some downward pressure on the numbers and stopped complacency. However the argument at the time seemed to be to get a surge in the late summer so as not to overwhelm the NHS later on, plus an economic even political one. So the NHS ran hot - c. 1000 deaths a week but no huge surge in (vulnerable) cases - stabilized at circa 30 to 50 K/day -  overall a slow rise and pre Omicron the NHS wasn't overwhelmed. The concern against this policy at the time was that it was a gamble - not overwhelming the NHS and no new variants to render it meaningless. 

However - although the running hot strategy didn't explode the NHS (and didn't buy time for more boosters) we all seemed 'happy' to accept the accumulating deaths and cases that we could of done more about but choose not too, it all it seems it has come to naught with the emergence of Omicron. Omicron doesn't much care about past infections and simply turned the page on Delta. Even Ricardo pointed out that Omicron may 'save' some European counties from an otherwise previously suppressed Delta spike. Delta 'banked' its winnings before we could recover them.

So the government gambled last summer and autumn, won one but lost one at the cost of thousands of lives but has ended up in pretty much the same place as would of been had it tried to save those lives with what amounted to plan B earlier.

It interesting even today with the governments previous mantra of not overwhelming the NHS to ask exactly what they would call the state of the NHS today - let alone in 2 weeks (army, major incidents etc.). It's the same do nothing gamble.

     

I certainly would have maintained mask wearing, but personally I did anyway. I'm not sure you are correct about Omicron not caring about past infections, there is certainly an argument that its failure to be the lethal force it may have been in part due to residual immunity both from infection and vaccination. As you know I was very much of the same opinion as you in July, part of our reticence as I recall was concern about a further large spike and England then becoming a Petri dish for new variants of concern, I dont think thats actually happened.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Van wink

[Yellow Fever 3,851]

4 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I certainly would have maintained mask wearing, but personally I did anyway. I'm not sure you are correct about Omicron not caring about past infections, there is certainly an argument that its failure to be the lethal force it may have been is due to residual immunity both from infection and vaccination. As you know I was very much of the same opinion as you in July, part of our reticence as I recall was concern about a further large spike and England then becoming a Petri dish for new variants of concern, I dont think thats actually happened.

Yes - I accept that but I think vaccination has had far more of an impact in the UK than any past infection by percentages - else similar arguments and effects should be seen elsewhere with lesser vaccinations!

The 'bad taste'  argument though is that it was a government gamble that cost lives - a gamble that needed several things not to happen to be wholly successful. Omicron called that bet in (and yes it wasn't 'English' variant as per Alpha but overseas). 

Eventually there will be an enquiry into all of this - but given the facts again I would still have acted more swiftly - the odds were never on the side of the virus playing nicely by the rules and I always suspected a 'sting in the tail' where it would all fall down one way or another - indeed Omicron may be as kind as it gets.  

[Van wink 2,994]

2 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes - I accept that but I think vaccination has had far more of an impact in the UK than any past infection by percentages - else similar arguments and effects should be seen elsewhere with lesser vaccinations!

The 'bad taste'  argument though is that it was a government gamble that cost lives - a gamble that needed several things not to happen to be wholly successful. Omicron called that bet in (and yes it wasn't 'English' variant as per Alpha but overseas). 

Eventually there will be an enquiry into all of this - but given the facts again I would still have acted more swiftly - the odds were never on the side of the virus playing nicely by the rules and I always suspected a 'sting in the tail' where it would all fall down one way or another - indeed Omicron may be as kind as it gets.  

No doubt policy in some respects could be characterised as a gamble and not always with the right motivation

[Tetteys Jig 831]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

I was just thinking summer is usually better and plenty of omicron now to boost up 2 doses as we know up until 6 months 2 doses is good for serious illness, but we just don’t know after that, so you could be right come March.

We are beginning to believe those that wanted the boosters joined massive queues many of the rest won’t bother until they need it for travel / domestic passport. 

a few people I know just kept their Jan bookings. A decent amount of them caught covid over the festive period. I'd think they'll go get their booster, especially if it impacts travel plans.

I'm more interested now in looking ahead to the 2nd gen vaccinations. We know so much more about this virus and its mutations now I'd imagine there'll be a highly effective tweak of the mrna vaccines ready for me in the near future, until then my 3 doses should keep me from any remotely significant harm.

Let the antivaxxers and bed wetters drone on and on about covid, I'll just be getting on with life.

[Creative Midfielder 2,004]

9 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

a few people I know just kept their Jan bookings. A decent amount of them caught covid over the festive period. I'd think they'll go get their booster, especially if it impacts travel plans.

I rather think that if they had Covid then they have to wait a month before they will be allowed a booster.

[Badger 2,415]

2 hours ago, benchwarmer said:

I don't mind new treatments that have been i) properly trialled and ii) are of proven effectiveness.  Neither of these criteria apply in the case of third (fourth, fifth . . .) covid jabs.  Vaccination isn't a treatment btw, it's a preventative.

 

The vaccinations were trialled and found to be safe with the overwhelming majority of people experiencing only minor side effects.

I have also had a flu jab, for I estimate the last 10 to 15 years. As far as I'm aware they is no research on the impact of 15 flu vaccinations either. It's normal, I really think that you have got this out of proportion, but it's your choice (although personally I would support more rigorous use of vaccine passports).

[Virtual reality 761]

On 04/01/2022 at 20:20, keelansgrandad said:

Djokovic given a pass for Australian Open. He will not say whether he has been vaccinated. Why? To both sentences.

This story keeps getting weirder and weirder. Personally I think he should have just came out and said he won’t be attending the competition as he doesn’t agree with the mandates and stayed away. Seems now like he’s either lying or he was breaking self isolation

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Djokovic says he is being held. Aussie minister said he is not and can get on a plane home whenever he wants.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

A leading figure in the QAnon conspiracy movement who said that only “idiots” get vaccinated has died of Covid-19.

Cirsten Weldon, who had tens of thousands of followers on right-wing social media networks, used her influence to drive people away from vaccines. She was a vocal critic of coronavirus mitigation efforts and at one point said that Dr Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, “needs to be hung from a rope”.

The Daily Beast reports that in one video, Ms Weldon harassed people waiting in line to get the coronavirus vaccine.

“The vaccines kill, don’t get it!” she yelled in the video. “This is how gullible these idiots are. They’re all getting vaccine!”

Ms Weldon began showing symptoms that she had been infected by Covid-19 in late December. Her final video shows her coughing and struggling to get through a rant about patriots overthrowing the US government.