nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159 Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said: I dont think it would be a be necessary to get it to 66million. 60 odd % of the population and its in inevitable decline. This number could be significantly reduced if it could get to the 'superspreaders' first and of course deaths and serious illness are what really counts so breaking this chain should be quite quick and easy Tories don't do quick and easy. They also do not want to talk about the pensions of those who have died before reaching pensions age, because the many contributions paid for years are being taken into Government coffers. Another point , please appoint a 'power of attorney' over your affairs, so should you be incapacitated by an accident, be hospital bound for long, develop dementia and or Alzheimers, you need somebody to regulate and manage your finances and or care plans. Making a will does not cover this at all and you need a power of attorney to rely on. take care Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted October 19, 2020 According to The Telegraph, New Zealand has hopelessly mis-managed the Virus.... such insightful journalism there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,395 Posted October 19, 2020 307k tests 18804 - 80 7days ago 13972 14 days ago 12594 Inpatients 5608 not updated since Saturday https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ Yesterdays European. Italy 11705 - 69 France 29837 - 85 Spain as usual no weekend update available Germany 5248 - 13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real Buh 3,446 Posted October 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Surfer said: According to The Telegraph, New Zealand has hopelessly mis-managed the Virus.... such insightful journalism there. New Zealander’s can hide from the virus behind her massive front teeth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,802 Posted October 19, 2020 Teeth or not, that is what a proper leader looks like and she's never once hidden in a fridge. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real Buh 3,446 Posted October 19, 2020 19 minutes ago, Herman said: Teeth or not, that is what a proper leader looks like and she's never once hidden in a fridge. If lined a few of these up ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted October 19, 2020 How long will Boris hold out against a lockdown, Wales and now Ireland, get ready for the Uturn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barbe bleu 831 Posted October 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Van wink said: How long will Boris hold out against a lockdown, Wales and now Ireland, get ready for the Uturn. If people are calling for a circuit breaker they shouldn't describe it as a u turn or even a circuit breaker. Call it national tier 4 or something. Whatever its called dont inject political jeopardy into it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted October 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said: If people are calling for a circuit breaker they shouldn't describe it as a u turn or even a circuit breaker. Call it national tier 4 or something. Whatever its called dont inject political jeopardy into it Well if there is one it will be a u turn, Sage advised a circuit breaker and they ignored the advice. The political jeopardy was injected when Sage advice wasn’t followed. But I know what you mean. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,810 Posted October 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said: If people are calling for a circuit breaker they shouldn't describe it as a u turn or even a circuit breaker. Call it national tier 4 or something. Whatever its called dont inject political jeopardy into it Its too late for that. A national lockdown is a national lockdown called Tier 4 or otherwise. His own media supporters will call it a national lockdown. And yes Kier Starmer will make hay. Take it on the chin Johnson and plain admit you got it wrong when the inevitable happens. At least he'll get credit for honesty. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189 Posted October 19, 2020 4 hours ago, Surfer said: According to The Telegraph, New Zealand has hopelessly mis-managed the Virus.... such insightful journalism there. Thankfully, The Daily Telegraph is behind a paywall. Long may it remain there Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real Buh 3,446 Posted October 19, 2020 Just imagine being giddy with excitement at the thought of a national lockdown yay! Unemployment and debt for future generations, but at least Boris looks bad and I got 2 weeks off of doing what I do. Which is nothing btw. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teemu’s right foot 53 Posted October 19, 2020 A scientist called Michael Yeadon has been very vocal on twitter and several radio shows saying the pandemic is over, and has been for some time. Quite interesting reading his posts and he’s clearly incredibly qualified in his field. If anyone is interested in reading his theory his twitter page is @michaelyeodan3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teemu’s right foot 53 Posted October 19, 2020 (edited) Edited October 19, 2020 by Teemu’s right foot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189 Posted October 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Teemu’s right foot said: Has he got any back up to those figures that science says? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teemu’s right foot 53 Posted October 19, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said: Has he got any back up to those figures that science says? Yes he is incredibly vocal on his Twitter page about this and if you research who this person is he is incredibly knowledgeable, he was the former CSO and VP, Allergy & Respiratory Research Head for Pfizer global and co founder of Ziarco Pharma Edited October 19, 2020 by Teemu’s right foot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Essjayess 307 Posted October 19, 2020 5 hours ago, ricardo said: 307k tests 18804 - 80 7days ago 13972 14 days ago 12594 Inpatients 5608 not updated since Saturday https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ Yesterdays European. Italy 11705 - 69 France 29837 - 85 Spain as usual no weekend update available Germany 5248 - 13 18k+ today and 13k+ last Monday?...hmmm..that could mean we may be looking at well over 20k+ tomorrow or Wesnesday...maybe 25k+. Thx Ricardo for the info...may be interesting to note that much of Eastern Europe is rising fairly quickly to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,250 Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Essjayess said: 18k+ today and 13k+ last Monday?...hmmm..that could mean we may be looking at well over 20k+ tomorrow or Wesnesday...maybe 25k+. Thx Ricardo for the info...may be interesting to note that much of Eastern Europe is rising fairly quickly to. The estimates say it is now nearer 60-70,000 per day with 1/3 with symptoms not bothering to get tested and 1/3 not even knowing they have it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,250 Posted October 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Van wink said: How long will Boris hold out against a lockdown, Wales and now Ireland, get ready for the Uturn. Hi VW I think for us it’s to late. Even the scientists who recommended the circuit break 4 weeks ago are now saying it would take 2 - 3 months to get it under control in England, Wales and Ireland ( and even Scotland ) may get away with it due to their small number of huge cities. Probably one of the first things he has got right is to say a circuit break won’t change anything, but he is forgetting to tell us it would ( according to SAGE ) have worked 4 weeks ago. If the reports from hospitals are to be believed they are close to the point they always dreaded, breaking point, and with Manchester they are now in a corner as they can’t argue against Burnham saying the hospitals have lots of capacity as then they would be admitting they are not giving us the facts. I think he will have to circuit break now so when it doesn’t work he can tell us all told you so, as if Wales, NI and Scotland lockdowns work, surely he’s toast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,250 Posted October 19, 2020 Sympathies and god bless to this guy and his family. His wife needs to be listened to and played on Manchester TV. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-54597619 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted October 20, 2020 9 hours ago, Well b back said: Hi VW I think for us it’s to late. Even the scientists who recommended the circuit break 4 weeks ago are now saying it would take 2 - 3 months to get it under control in England, Wales and Ireland ( and even Scotland ) may get away with it due to their small number of huge cities. Probably one of the first things he has got right is to say a circuit break won’t change anything, but he is forgetting to tell us it would ( according to SAGE ) have worked 4 weeks ago. If the reports from hospitals are to be believed they are close to the point they always dreaded, breaking point, and with Manchester they are now in a corner as they can’t argue against Burnham saying the hospitals have lots of capacity as then they would be admitting they are not giving us the facts. I think he will have to circuit break now so when it doesn’t work he can tell us all told you so, as if Wales, NI and Scotland lockdowns work, surely he’s toast. I guess it’s what you mean by “work” Wbb. It is recognised in Wales that if they have a 2 week circuit break the numbers will still be continuing to rise as they come out of it, the reason it’s being done there is they believe, and with some logic, that the benefits will be seen a few weeks further on where numbers/hospitalisations will be lower than they otherwise would have been. I agree though, much more benifit from doing this earlier rather than now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,250 Posted October 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Van wink said: I guess it’s what you mean by “work” Wbb. It is recognised in Wales that if they have a 2 week circuit break the numbers will still be continuing to rise as they come out of it, the reason it’s being done there is they believe, and with some logic, that the benefits will be seen a few weeks further on where numbers/hospitalisations will be lower than they otherwise would have been. I agree though, much more benifit from doing this earlier rather than now. Agreed Be interesting to see if in 14 days time they say we are just going to do this for another couple of weeks using the then Christmas won’t be so bad. If it even just slows it down us English will be less welcome there than normal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted October 20, 2020 I suspect it will be for just 2 weeks but may be repeated later on, but who knows. The big problem we have now is that as the political battle heats up reliable data becomes even less freely available. Everything is being spinned even more than usual. If you dig you can still find it but arguing over hospital data in Manchester only adds to weakening the important messages about compliance. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,810 Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) VW - Agree with the 'spin'. One thing I've heard several times recently (and in the Manchester debate) is the claim for 'political' anti-lockdown reasons that most infections take place in the home and not in pubs and restaurants etc. Ergo they are not to blame. It's obviously true but also a completely misleading statement. If one of your partner, children, live in family etc. catch Covid it's highly likely more or less everybody else in the family will catch it too. Your own 'protection' inside your bubble is no stronger than its weakest link or member. Its true for care homes, families, student residences and even hospital wards. What we need to do is stop the virus spreading between such 'bubbles' (a horrible quackery word) - and that has everything to do with weak members socializing outside the 'bubble'. That brings me to my second point - In our extended bubbles the risk of Covid is determined really by the sum risk of any of its individual members catching Covid - not the individual in isolation. However, most of us in the 'West' 'bend or break the rules' ever so slightly (we make our own risk assessments however well intentioned which individually are small but all add together as above) - some are even deliberately 'anti' i.e,.Chloe Smith's husband and a risk to all. Hence weak unenforceable lockdowns are usually rather ineffective - it's only the strict unavoidable ones with pubs and clubs and indeed restaurants closed that really impact on the virus. Edited October 20, 2020 by Yellow Fever 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,250 Posted October 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said: VW - Agree with the 'spin'. One thing I've heard several times recently (and in the Manchester debate) is the claim for 'political' anti-lockdown reasons that most infections take place in the home and not in pubs and restaurants etc. Ergo they are not to blame. It's obviously true but also a completely misleading statement. If one of your partner, children, live in family etc. catch Covid it's highly likely more or less everybody else in the family will catch it too. Your own 'protection' inside your bubble is no stronger than its weakest link or member. Its true for care homes, families, student residences and even hospital wards. What we need to do is stop the virus spreading between such 'bubbles' (a horrible quackery word) - and that has everything to do with weak members socializing outside the 'bubble'. That brings me to my second point - In our extended bubbles the risk of Covid is determined really by the sum risk of any of its individual members catching Covid - not the individual in isolation. However, most of us in the 'West' 'bend or break the rules' ever so slightly (we make our own risk assessments however well intentioned which individually are small but all add together as above) - some are even deliberately 'anti' i.e,.Chloe Smith's husband and a risk to all. Hence weak unenforceable lockdowns are usually rather ineffective - it's only the strict unavoidable ones with pubs and clubs and indeed restaurants closed that really impact on the virus. I have been trying to bring this over to my wife since March regarding the more risk you take the more you are likely to get it and yes you are spot on in the West we look at good reasons to break the rules ( which as you say are often done with the best intentions ) whereas in China if you break the rules you will be considered an outcast, reported and possibly sent to prison. Try not taking the vaccine in China if you are told you are having it. Pity there is not something in the middle, keeping to the rules without question but not having your free speech taken away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,810 Posted October 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, Well b back said: I have been trying to bring this over to my wife since March regarding the more risk you take the more you are likely to get it and yes you are spot on in the West we look at good reasons to break the rules ( which as you say are often done with the best intentions ) whereas in China if you break the rules you will be considered an outcast, reported and possibly sent to prison. Try not taking the vaccine in China if you are told you are having it. Pity there is not something in the middle, keeping to the rules without question but not having your free speech taken away. Japan, Korea. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,250 Posted October 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said: Japan, Korea. Yep that’s spot on. I have been thinking about ( think it was Teemu ) a post earlier where he said he shouldn’t be cast aside if he refuses the vaccine. I will keep an open mind on this as who knows how in the future this will pan out and opinions change. I can think of 2 things where things were acceptable but are now looked at in horror should you do them. When the seat belt rule came in, I for one said it’s down to me, now if somebody told me they weren’t wearing a seatbelt I would be horrified. Likewise I used to be a smoker ( gave up a good 10 years ago ) but when they brought in the rules of not smoking in indoor areas I was horrified, and really couldn’t see either what it had to do with others, let alone how I maybe killing non smokers. We don’t know how this will pan out in the future, it maybe countries say ‘ you cannot travel to our country unless you have been vaccinated ‘ or ‘ you can’t attend a football match without being vaccinated ‘ or even ‘ carriers are like smokers were passing invisible death to others ‘. I am not saying these things will happen, but at this stage it is a real unknown and wether not having the vaccine will be socially unacceptable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,250 Posted October 20, 2020 4 hours ago, Van wink said: I suspect it will be for just 2 weeks but may be repeated later on, but who knows. The big problem we have now is that as the political battle heats up reliable data becomes even less freely available. Everything is being spinned even more than usual. If you dig you can still find it but arguing over hospital data in Manchester only adds to weakening the important messages about compliance. Spot on Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,250 Posted October 20, 2020 ONS have deaths to the week 9/10 up again by a third. Hopefully the treatments are now working so deaths will not reach anywhere near the figures before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites