Corona Virus main thread

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Anyone considered how the Guv will enforce quarantining?

[Bill 1,788]

2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Anyone considered how the Guv will enforce quarantining?

a notice at the airports... and, umm

.... that's it

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Anyone considered how the Guv will enforce quarantining?

Until now I think it's been done by a small number of random checks ?  In the main this is like the speed limit.  If you break the speed limit, chances are you'll get away with it, but for public safety you shouldn't, and nowadays most people stick to the limit most of the time.

 

Also on some other posts about Grant Shapps having to quarantine when he comes back from Spain - so what ?  Presumably he'll just work from home when he gets back.  One of the people in my team has a holiday booked in Malta in August and she's assuming she may have to quarantine for 2 weeks when she gets back, just in case.  She's been working from home since lockdown began in late March so another 2 weeks is no big deal.

[Bill 1,788]

17 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

Until now I think it's been done by a small number of random checks ?  In the main this is like the speed limit.  If you break the speed limit, chances are you'll get away with it, but for public safety you shouldn't, and nowadays most people stick to the limit most of the time.

Therein lies the flaw,

Drivers who break the speed limit do so, in the main, because they reason it is safe to do so. Much as will happen with the 14 day quarantining. The checks mentioned are worthless, as there are so many loopholes as to why somebody is not in if they are checked at their home. Few will bother.

Much with the 'fancy dress' nonsense, Which is rather like having a  smoking ban in pubs, that is only voluntary and does not apply to staff.

The absurd and stupid claims that something is being done' will cause far more harm than ever they might avoid. Anyone quarantining at home will be in contact with others who will be free to mix, unknown those they mix with. The former may well be those who have chosen not to wear a mask, do not sanitise their hands or keep a safe distance

So where then fancy dress - other than as a dangerous delusion, as shown in Spain?

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Bill

[Herman 9,765]

31 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

Until now I think it's been done by a small number of random checks ?  In the main this is like the speed limit.  If you break the speed limit, chances are you'll get away with it, but for public safety you shouldn't, and nowadays most people stick to the limit most of the time.

 

Also on some other posts about Grant Shapps having to quarantine when he comes back from Spain - so what ?  Presumably he'll just work from home when he gets back.  One of the people in my team has a holiday booked in Malta in August and she's assuming she may have to quarantine for 2 weeks when she gets back, just in case.  She's been working from home since lockdown began in late March so another 2 weeks is no big deal.

He's my local MP and a bit of a twit. I found it amusing. Although you are right,, he'll work from home and do his usual video conferencing and such like. I don't think the  country is going to stop without an a regular real life appearance from him.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

10 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

OK  so the differences in viral infection is in a large part driven by the different rates at which schools re-opened.   

For what it is worth I think england should have changed to closer to a Scottish academic year with reopening pushed back but the next year starting earlier but I am not sure that schools have had or will have much of a role to play. I dont have much evidence for this but we are not seeing many school closures in England or academic reports conforming schools are particularly dangerous so I am quite comfortable with the finger in the air assessment.

 

I agree that schools are probably not a major factor in this, although that appears to be a common supposition without much underpinning evidence.

Nevertheless I choose it as an example in response to VW's assertion that he didn't see much difference between the English and Scotch approaches when in reality there were a great many differences. But the approach with respect to schools was so completely different it seemed the obvious example to quote

[Van wink 2,994]

11 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I agree that schools are probably not a major factor in this, although that appears to be a common supposition without much underpinning evidence.

Nevertheless I choose it as an example in response to VW's assertion that he didn't see much difference between the English and Scotch approaches when in reality there were a great many differences. But the approach with respect to schools was so completely different it seemed the obvious example to quote

Quote from Professor Hugh Pennington
“But Prof Pennington said that on actual policy on coronavirus, the record in Scotland and England was basically the same. Ms Sturgeon, for example, made no attempt to challenge the UK’s relatively late implementation of lockdown, which is widely seen as the main reason why the death rate has been higher than other nations”

No significant difference is what I said CM and as you said above “schools are probably not a major factor in this” .

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Van wink

[Van wink 2,994]

11 hours ago, Bill said:

 

So where then fancy dress - other than as a dangerous delusion, as shown in Spain?

 

Your lack of understanding and pig headedness on this is astonishing and puts you In the same frame as Trump.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Van wink

[Aggy 755]

34 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Your lack of understanding and pig headedness on this is astonishing and puts you In the same frame as Trump.

In fairness though, there is a point about the masks leading to complacency. They might be a slight help but I read a comment on Facebook over the weekend where someone said they “felt safe” in a shop they’d been in to that day because people were wearing masks. The person then explained they had been shielding for the last four months. Personally, i think if you’re in a high risk category and have been shielding for four months, the idea that it’s now fine for you to get back to normal life because some people are wearing masks (but certainly not all, and even then only in certain places)  is ‘delusional’ and potentially dangerous.

The answer of course isn’t that we should scrap the idea of masks all together, but they aren’t enough of a help for people who are at risk to think they are now fully protected and “safe”.

 

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, Aggy said:

In fairness though, there is a point about the masks leading to complacency. They might be a slight help but I read a comment on Facebook over the weekend where someone said they “felt safe” in a shop they’d been in to that day because people were wearing masks. The person then explained they had been shielding for the last four months. Personally, i think if you’re in a high risk category and have been shielding for four months, the idea that it’s now fine for you to get back to normal life because some people are wearing masks (but certainly not all, and even then only in certain places)  is ‘delusional’ and potentially dangerous.

The answer of course isn’t that we should scrap the idea of masks all together, but they aren’t enough of a help for people who are at risk to think they are now fully protected and “safe”.

 

Your final para is the pertinent one, nobody is claiming that face coverings make everything safe, the point is and always has been that they will help to reduce spread of the virus and form part of a range of Public health measures we can all take to help reduce the risk of community spread of the pandemic. Why would anyone want to increase the risk to their fellow citizens by not using such a simple intervention?

[sonyc 5,518]

15 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Your final para is the pertinent one, nobody is claiming that face coverings make everything safe, the point is and always has been that they will help to reduce spread of the virus and form part of a range of Public health measures we can all take to help reduce the risk of community spread of the pandemic. Why would anyone want to increase the risk to their fellow citizens by not using such a simple intervention?

I believe there was a report stating that the intervention is marginal (I know some hate statistics but it was 9% if memory serves me according to scientific studies). A marginal gain is worth it. It is one of quite a few public health measures. It isn't a panacea but then it was never represented as such. Those that flout the guidance are treating it in an irresponsible way.

Likewise, quarantine from Spain. Just see it as a responsible thing to do to protect others in the community rather than making pathetic moans in the press about the government handling it wrongly. It's a pandemic. A holiday is a luxury.

Edited July 27, 2020 by sonyc

[Aggy 755]

14 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I believe there was a report stating that the intervention is marginal (I know some hate statistics but it was 9% if memory serves me according to scientific studies). A marginal gain is worth it. It is one of quite a few public health measures. It isn't a panacea but then it was never represented as such. Those that flout the guidance are treating it in an irresponsible way.

Likewise, quarantine from Spain. Just see it as a responsible thing to do to protect others in the community rather than making pathetic moans in the press about the government handling it wrongly. It's a pandemic. A holiday is a luxury.

Holiday is a luxury but we’ve still got fewer deaths per week than the five year average death rate..... even in Spain, infections going up but they haven’t had more than five deaths a day for the whole of July. people need to get a grip at some point...

[Bill 1,788]

39 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Your final para is the pertinent one, nobody is claiming that face coverings make everything safe, the point is and always has been that they will help to reduce spread of the virus and form part of a range of Public health measures we can all take to help reduce the risk of community spread of the pandemic. Why would anyone want to increase the risk to their fellow citizens by not using such a simple intervention?

no, that is another lie from you, and given how you do not live in the UK you should wind your neck and stop lying about what I say and do

Aggy has put it far more eloquently

so if you must reply to my posts have the courtesy to replay to what I state, not more of you made up shight

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

no, that is another lie from you, and given how you do not live in the UK you should wind your neck and stop lying about what I say and do

Aggy has put it far more eloquently

so if you must reply to my posts have the courtesy to replay to what I state, not more of you made up shight

It wasn’t a reply to you you self obsessed Clown😂

 

 

[Van wink 2,994]

2 hours ago, sonyc said:

I believe there was a report stating that the intervention is marginal (I know some hate statistics but it was 9% if memory serves me according to scientific studies). A marginal gain is worth it. It is one of quite a few public health measures. It isn't a panacea but then it was never represented as such. Those that flout the guidance are treating it in an irresponsible way.

Likewise, quarantine from Spain. Just see it as a responsible thing to do to protect others in the community rather than making pathetic moans in the press about the government handling it wrongly. It's a pandemic. A holiday is a luxury.

Yes, of course I agree with this and it merits being repeated until it sinks in 😉

[Bill 1,788]

5 minutes ago, Van wink said:

It wasn’t a reply to you you self obsessed Clown

I was replying to your repeated lies about what I have said, and what I am supposed to have done

that's all

 

[Bill 1,788]

2 hours ago, sonyc said:

I believe there was a report stating that the intervention is marginal (I know some hate statistics but it was 9% if memory serves me according to scientific studies). A marginal gain is worth it. It is one of quite a few public health measures. It isn't a panacea but then it was never represented as such. Those that flout the guidance are treating it in an irresponsible way.

Likewise, quarantine from Spain. Just see it as a responsible thing to do to protect others in the community rather than making pathetic moans in the press about the government handling it wrongly. It's a pandemic. A holiday is a luxury.

And therein lies the problem

That is not what is being put out, as the indifference would be far higher than it is now. In that light I expect within a couple of weeks we will be back to where we were on the 23rd.

For those who live in the UK will know the days of social distancing in shops, the requirement to sanitise your hands before entry, sanitising trolley handles before use, telling folk only to have minimal contact with goods has all been forgotten

Now that the consequences of that are slowly emerging - we are assured that a bit of cloth will ward of 'ye foul pestilence'

Whatever minimal benefit the fancy dress might afford, it is massively out weighed by the harm such misleading information is now causing.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

3 hours ago, sonyc said:

I believe there was a report stating that the intervention is marginal (I know some hate statistics but it was 9% if memory serves me according to scientific studies). A marginal gain is worth it. It is one of quite a few public health measures. It isn't a panacea but then it was never represented as such. Those that flout the guidance are treating it in an irresponsible way.

Likewise, quarantine from Spain. Just see it as a responsible thing to do to protect others in the community rather than making pathetic moans in the press about the government handling it wrongly. It's a pandemic. A holiday is a luxury.

Yes I agree completely with this.  A mask is clearly just going to make a marginal difference but the marginal differences are really important !

It has irritated me over the weekend that the BBC lead news story constantly has been about the requirement to quarantine if you come back from a single country, when it's not long since we all had to stay at home all day except for a single daily exercise period.  Why is 14-days of quarantine from one country such a big deal and why can't they challenge some of the people complaining about it ?

[sonyc 5,518]

3 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

Yes I agree completely with this.  A mask is clearly just going to make a marginal difference but the marginal differences are really important !

It has irritated me over the weekend that the BBC lead news story constantly has been about the requirement to quarantine if you come back from a single country, when it's not long since we all had to stay at home all day except for a single daily exercise period.  Why is 14-days of quarantine from one country such a big deal and why can't they challenge some of the people complaining about it ?

In our local paper a bloke is even on the front page moaning about his stag do to Alicante now having to be cancelled (and bless his stag do friends who have changed pounds into Euros 😆 as he points out). The comments are funny though and mostly are along the lines of some folk having far harder lives to contend with.

Staying away for 14 daya from family, work and your community is not a high price to pay surely! Most people also work at home remotely too. 

[Van wink 2,994]

26 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

Yes I agree completely with this.  A mask is clearly just going to make a marginal difference but the marginal differences are really important !

It has irritated me over the weekend that the BBC lead news story constantly has been about the requirement to quarantine if you come back from a single country, when it's not long since we all had to stay at home all day except for a single daily exercise period.  Why is 14-days of quarantine from one country such a big deal and why can't they challenge some of the people complaining about it ?

Indeed, and the marginal differences in infection control are now more significant than ever. Delighted for those taking holidays but there should be no assumption that things are back to normal. I wouldn’t fly atm that’s for sure.

To be honest the majority of people have done the right thing and I’m sure will continue to do so.

[Bill 1,788]

31 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

Yes I agree completely with this.  A mask is clearly just going to make a marginal difference but the marginal differences are really important !

That's the problem, what minimal effect it has, and it is minimal as it is voluntary is far, far outweighed by the damage the lunacy of propagating the idea that it alone is doing anything. Because that is what it is happening..... go outside and look.

It needs to stop, and folk need to be reminded of just how dangerous the virus is and that no silly bit of cloth will avoid that danger.

The government is continuing to put out contradictory messages and advice - and as folk see so many others are not complying with this 'sometime you can sometimes you can't'  idiocy, other needed measures are falling by the wayside..... hence the emerging increase in infection.

[Bill 1,788]

8 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Indeed, and the marginal differences in infection control are now more significant than ever. Delighted for those taking holidays but there should be no assumption that things are back to normal. I wouldn’t fly atm that’s for sure.

To be honest the majority of people have done the right thing and I’m sure will continue to do so.

That's because you don't live in the UK, and so have no idea what is happening,

Folk are simply pulling the mask up for the duration of their time in the shops, hand sanitising has been forgotten, as has pretty much all other preventative measures

Regulation in pubs is now almost non existent, as with coffee shops and cafes

And why might that be.

One, businesses are under pressure to keep afloat - and two numpties like you continue to peddle misinformation

[PurpleCanary 5,560]

5 hours ago, Van wink said:

Your final para is the pertinent one, nobody is claiming that face coverings make everything safe, the point is and always has been that they will help to reduce spread of the virus and form part of a range of Public health measures we can all take to help reduce the risk of community spread of the pandemic. Why would anyone want to increase the risk to their fellow citizens by not using such a simple intervention?

VW, I see that in France from now on anyone can get a test for Covid-19 for free and without a prescription from their doctor. They don't even need to be displaying symptoms. Obviously another way to help reduce the risk of spreading the virus, and good news for the likes of Bagster, over there.

But what are the chances of this being adopted in the UK, given that it seems to have been behindhand so far in taking - or being able to take - action?

[Van wink 2,994]

8 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

VW, I see that in France from now on anyone can get a test for Covid-19 for free and without a prescription from their doctor. They don't even need to be displaying symptoms. Obviously another way to help reduce the risk of spreading the virus, and good news for the likes of Bagster, over there.

But what are the chances of this being adopted in the UK, given that it seems to have been behindhand so far in taking - or being able to take - action?

Yes it appears the cost of a PCR test will now be reimbursed. I noticed this article  yesterday when I popped in to see Bagster, he’s a keen reader of Le Parisien , it’s probably how he keeps himself so well informed.

Coronavirus : «J'en appelle à la jeunesse pour qu'elle soit vigilante»

Dans cet entretien exclusif, le ministre de la Santé Olivier Véran fait part de sa préoccupation face à la remontée de l’épidémie de Covid-19, notamment chez les jeunes, et n’exclut pas la fermeture de certains bars. Il annonce que désormais tous les tests PCR seront remboursés.

In the UK you can have a free test if you have

“coronavirus symptoms now (a high temperature, a new, continuous cough, or a loss or change to your sense of smell or taste”

Or “for someone you live with, if they have symptoms“

if you live in England and have been told to have a test before you go into hospital, for example, for surgery

if you live in any of these local councils where there are coronavirus outbreaks: Leicester, Luton, Pendle, or Blackburn with Darwen”

Additionally there are the free tests available to a wide range of specified professions.

IMO extending tests to everyone who wants one would, in some form of controlled system, be a good step forward and would help with surveillance, to be of most value it needs to fit into a sampling matrix of some kind, we have been told that capacity has been growing so let’s use it. 

 

 

[sonyc 5,518]

Good point. Yet not so much thinking here of who wants one...but if we could get weekly tests for all those working that would be a great start (indeed rolling out to anybody who is not housebound) and would mean the economy could kickstart fully because people would self isolate to if positive and of course could carry out a normal life if negative. 

Just how possible that ever may be I don't know. But surely it would be far less costly than the economic costs of furlough, redundancy etc etc. 

[PurpleCanary 5,560]

7 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Yes it appears the cost of a PCR test will now be reimbursed. I noticed this article  yesterday when I popped in to see Bagster, he’s a keen reader of Le Parisien , it’s probably how he keeps himself so well informed.

Coronavirus : «J'en appelle à la jeunesse pour qu'elle soit vigilante»

Dans cet entretien exclusif, le ministre de la Santé Olivier Véran fait part de sa préoccupation face à la remontée de l’épidémie de Covid-19, notamment chez les jeunes, et n’exclut pas la fermeture de certains bars. Il annonce que désormais tous les tests PCR seront remboursés.

In the UK you can have a free test if you have

“coronavirus symptoms now (a high temperature, a new, continuous cough, or a loss or change to your sense of smell or taste”

Or “for someone you live with, if they have symptoms“

if you live in England and have been told to have a test before you go into hospital, for example, for surgery

if you live in any of these local councils where there are coronavirus outbreaks: Leicester, Luton, Pendle, or Blackburn with Darwen”

Additionally there are the free tests available to a wide range of specified professions.

IMO extending tests to everyone who wants one would, in some form of controlled system, be a good step forward and would help with surveillance, to be of most value it needs to fit into a sampling matrix of some kind, we have been told that capacity has been growing so let’s use it. 

 

 

Thanks. That is not bad coverage already in the UK, then. Perhaps better than I'd imagined. But as you say if there is - or soon to be - capacity for everyone to be tested then that would be the step to take. As I understand it one of the advantages the UK has over some countries is having a national health service, so data from all over can easily be collated to show the way forward.

[Aggy 755]

2 hours ago, Van wink said:

Yes it appears the cost of a PCR test will now be reimbursed. I noticed this article  yesterday when I popped in to see Bagster, he’s a keen reader of Le Parisien , it’s probably how he keeps himself so well informed.

Coronavirus : «J'en appelle à la jeunesse pour qu'elle soit vigilante»

Dans cet entretien exclusif, le ministre de la Santé Olivier Véran fait part de sa préoccupation face à la remontée de l’épidémie de Covid-19, notamment chez les jeunes, et n’exclut pas la fermeture de certains bars. Il annonce que désormais tous les tests PCR seront remboursés.

In the UK you can have a free test if you have

“coronavirus symptoms now (a high temperature, a new, continuous cough, or a loss or change to your sense of smell or taste”

Or “for someone you live with, if they have symptoms“

if you live in England and have been told to have a test before you go into hospital, for example, for surgery

if you live in any of these local councils where there are coronavirus outbreaks: Leicester, Luton, Pendle, or Blackburn with Darwen”

Additionally there are the free tests available to a wide range of specified professions.

IMO extending tests to everyone who wants one would, in some form of controlled system, be a good step forward and would help with surveillance, to be of most value it needs to fit into a sampling matrix of some kind, we have been told that capacity has been growing so let’s use it. 

 

 

Yes it’s fairly easy to get one - I had a bad cough a few weeks ago, got the test within a day and posted it back. You can get drive through even quicker I believe. 

[Bill 1,788]

Sainsburys earlier, much as before - around a third not wearing mask, table with sanitiser has been moved so you have to walk a few yards to find it - no one is when I was watching

queue in the service till back to normal - cashier no mask - similar with self service

walking across the car park it was about half and half with couples now shopping together

.... give it another week, and we will see the infection rate rise

[Van wink 2,994]

No doubt about that Billy. Hope you did the right thing and covered your face👍

[ricardo 7,395]

22 minutes ago, Bill said:

Sainsburys earlier, much as before - around a third not wearing mask, table with sanitiser has been moved so you have to walk a few yards to find it - no one is when I was watching

queue in the service till back to normal - cashier no mask - similar with self service

walking across the car park it was about half and half with couples now shopping together

.... give it another week, and we will see the infection rate rise

Waitrose this morning, 100% mask wear.

attendant checking on entry and providing pre cleaned shopping trolley of your choice (large or smalll)

plenty of hand sanitiser available as you enter.

strict social distancing practised at the tills.