New Labour Leader

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

On 23/06/2021 at 21:29, keelansgrandad said:

So why were Labour wrong to do it but the Tories are right?

You jabber, we jab?

Well I didn't want to descend into a political right or wrong argument, I was hoping to provide some evidence why this isn't an extreme right-wing government as some seem to think. If it were, then it would be promoting less government spending and smaller government among other measures.

[horsefly 4,318]

Anyone claiming that the shambles that constitutes our present government isn't ideologically motivated by far-right principles demonstrates a startlingly naive ignorance of the careers and views of its cabinet members. The money spent by the current mob was determined by the necessity to keep the country afloat and did NOT stem from any desire to invest in public services or industry. They are radical free marketeers to a man and woman (except, of course, when it comes to funnelling taxpayers' money into their own Tory constituencies). One only needs to look at their stunted literary contributions to see how far right they are, for example:

Britannia Unchained: Global Lessons for Growth and Prosperity Paperback – Illustrated, 13 Sept. 2012

by K. Kwarteng (Author), P. Patel (Contributor), D. Raab (Contributor), C. Skidmore (Contributor), E. Truss (Contributor)

 

The paucity of their views has been exposed by the twin disasters of the pandemic and brexit. Thus it is no suprise that they have had to resort to left of centre economic policy in order to save the country from economic and social collapse. But make no mistake, as soon as it becomes remotely possible, their far right ideological obssessions will prevail again. 

[horsefly 4,318]

Excellent result for Labour. The gut-churning hypocite Galloway did everything he could to destroy the Labour vote and hand the seat to the Tories. Well done to all those who refused to let him divide the community with his disgraceful campaign of lies and intimidation. As ever, the far left infiltrators did everything they could to sabotage the centre left agenda to restore the credibility of Labour to ordinary voters. Corbyn and his mob led Labour to the worst result since before WWII, against a known liar and buffoon  who was laughed at when he risibly claimed truth was important in politics. Let's hope this is the beginning of a renaissance for a political agenda that can extract itself from the fetid swamp of corruption and self-interest in which the current regime is mired.

[Van wink 2,994]

32 minutes ago, horsefly said:

As ever, the far left infiltrators did everything they could to sabotage the centre left agenda to restore the credibility of Labour to ordinary voters. Corbyn and his mob led Labour to the worst result since before WWII, against a known liar and buffoon  who was laughed at when he risibly claimed truth was important in politics. 

Yep, let’s hope that pragmatic views gain support and that the loons who were waving the red flag for Corbyn get real or leave the party. (anyone seen Billy?)

[horsefly 4,318]

2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

 (anyone seen Billy?)

Seems to have disappeared along with Moy and Jools Winkie

[ricardo 7,401]

15 minutes ago, Van wink said:

. (anyone seen Billy?)

Regenerated like Dr Who 😉

[BigFish 1,988]

On 26/06/2021 at 00:27, Rock The Boat said:

Well I didn't want to descend into a political right or wrong argument, I was hoping to provide some evidence why this isn't an extreme right-wing government as some seem to think. If it were, then it would be promoting less government spending and smaller government among other measures.

You are confusing neo-liberal governments with authoritarian ones-there are more than one way to be right wing. Hitler and Mussolini were both big builders and in favour of a big state. This government is suppressing dissent and clamping down on criticism, filling public positions with cronies and stoking divisiveness in the electorate in a way that wouldn't look out of place in Hungary and Poland.

Edited July 2, 2021 by BigFish
sp

[Yellow Fever 3,839]

57 minutes ago, BigFish said:

You are confusing neo-liberal governments with authoritarian ones-there are more than one way to be right wing. Hitler and Mussolini were both big builders and in favour of a big state. This government is suppressing desent and clamping down on criticism, filling public positions with cronies and stoking divisiveness in the electorate in a way that wouldn't look out of place in Hungary and Poland.

Be careful there BF - we'll get into the nonsense argument again about socialist is the full title of a 1930s German party, N. Korea or the East Germany.

Rather like 'Unionist' in the full title of the Conservatives. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, horsefly said:

Excellent result for Labour. The gut-churning hypocite Galloway did everything he could to destroy the Labour vote and hand the seat to the Tories. Well done to all those who refused to let him divide the community with his disgraceful campaign of lies and intimidation. As ever, the far left infiltrators did everything they could to sabotage the centre left agenda to restore the credibility of Labour to ordinary voters. Corbyn and his mob led Labour to the worst result since before WWII, against a known liar and buffoon  who was laughed at when he risibly claimed truth was important in politics. Let's hope this is the beginning of a renaissance for a political agenda that can extract itself from the fetid swamp of corruption and self-interest in which the current regime is mired.

I wish Galloway would stop telling the likes of me that he represents me. I really cannot figure out what his agenda really is or whether he is just a rude, miserable, argumentative fool.

I know he likes the microphone.

[horsefly 4,318]

48 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I wish Galloway would stop telling the likes of me that he represents me. I really cannot figure out what his agenda really is or whether he is just a rude, miserable, argumentative fool.

I know he likes the microphone.

Indeed! He did it purely to sabotage Starmer and the Labour Party. Apparently there are already several suspensions from the Labour Party for far-left members who campaigned on behalf of Galloway. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

Indeed! He did it purely to sabotage Starmer and the Labour Party. Apparently there are already several suspensions from the Labour Party for far-left members who campaigned on behalf of Galloway. 

Indeed. But I think some are more anarchists than far left. Some far left proposals are acceptable but not the method of introducing them.

[Van wink 2,994]

6 hours ago, ricardo said:

Regenerated like Dr Who 😉

Which was the series when the flowerpot doctor regenerated as a fly? It escapes my memory?  😂 Maybe this one 😉

[Herman 9,829]

How much rent is he paying you? 😉

[sonyc 5,541]

3 hours ago, horsefly said:

Indeed! He did it purely to sabotage Starmer and the Labour Party. Apparently there are already several suspensions from the Labour Party for far-left members who campaigned on behalf of Galloway. 

Look up Paul Mason on his piece (Twitter) on Galloway. Very informative. This by election is very much near my home ground so have been watching with great interest. Galloway tends to float in then float out.

Leadbeater is every inch the working class hero that he isn't. Whatever one's views on Labour or any other party on the left, she is OF the community and FOR the community she has bid to represent.

It marks quite an achievement, quite a big thing that Labour have managed to win this. The videos of her being harassed seemed like angry local people but since discovered of course that the angry men with cameras for the occasion had been drafted in. Dirty tricks throughout. It ought to shock us.

 

[Creative Midfielder 2,003]

15 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Look up Paul Mason on his piece (Twitter) on Galloway. Very informative. This by election is very much near my home ground so have been watching with great interest. Galloway tends to float in then float out.

Leadbeater is every inch the working class hero that he isn't. Whatever one's views on Labour or any other party on the left, she is OF the community and FOR the community she has bid to represent.

It marks quite an achievement, quite a big thing that Labour have managed to win this. The videos of her being harassed seemed like angry local people but since discovered of course that the angry men with cameras for the occasion had been drafted in. Dirty tricks throughout. It ought to shock us.

 

It certainly should but I think our standards have fallen so much in recent years that lying and dirty tricks generally sre just shrugged off by many. Then of course we have an entirely toothless Electoral Commission whose remit is to 'to promote public confidence and participation in our democratic processes and to ensure their integrity' but it actually has very few powers to do this and rarely uses the ones that it has.

The police also have a very limited set of powers to protect the integrity of elections and they appear equally reluctant to use those.

So I suppose we should be grateful that at least on this occasion the scumbags failed, and Kim Leadbeater deserves hugh credit for that. This was a very well deserved personal triumph for her but sadly also something of an exception to the general rule that a good and serious candidate is at a serious disadvantage when glib lying and dirty tricks generally are the apparently acceptable norm.

Must confess I've no idea why we accept this sad state of affairs so readily - if it was happening in Africa or Asia or Russia, Turkey etc etc we'd be mouthing off till the cows come home about 'democratic integrity' etc - quite rightly, so why do we so readily accept this sh*t in our own country??

[horsefly 4,318]

34 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Look up Paul Mason on his piece (Twitter) on Galloway. Very informative. This by election is very much near my home ground so have been watching with great interest. Galloway tends to float in then float out.

Leadbeater is every inch the working class hero that he isn't. Whatever one's views on Labour or any other party on the left, she is OF the community and FOR the community she has bid to represent.

It marks quite an achievement, quite a big thing that Labour have managed to win this. The videos of her being harassed seemed like angry local people but since discovered of course that the angry men with cameras for the occasion had been drafted in. Dirty tricks throughout. It ought to shock us.

 

Spot on sonyc! It's hard to believe that some people are so low that they would harass and threaten the woman whose own sister had been stalked and murdered by a white supremacist in the very same constituency. It was a vile campaign of hate and division reminiscent of the sort of scenes dramatised in Alan Bleasdale's brilliant GBH.

It was indeed a quite remarkable result for Labour given that Galloway stole 8,000 of the votes. It was widely mooted before the result that more than 3,000 votes for Galloway would make it impossible for Labour to win. A brilliant local candidate who epitomised the sort of integrity missing in so many politicians was no doubt a big factor. But it is also clear that the Tories lost a significant number of voters back to the Labour Party who loaned them their vote last time out. Seems like the Red Wall is beginning to be rebuilt.

 

[BigFish 1,988]

43 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Look up Paul Mason on his piece (Twitter) on Galloway. Very informative. This by election is very much near my home ground so have been watching with great interest. Galloway tends to float in then float out.

Leadbeater is every inch the working class hero that he isn't. Whatever one's views on Labour or any other party on the left, she is OF the community and FOR the community she has bid to represent.

It marks quite an achievement, quite a big thing that Labour have managed to win this. The videos of her being harassed seemed like angry local people but since discovered of course that the angry men with cameras for the occasion had been drafted in. Dirty tricks throughout. It ought to shock us.

 

Excellent win for Labour against strong headwinds (Galloway, a Leave seat, the vaccine bounce). The Tories thought they had it in the bag, Labour thought they had lost and Galloway thought Labour would come third. It gives a template for the recovery of Red Wall seats and there is definite signs of a big swing from moderate Tories, the LibDems and Greens to counter the 8k largely Labour Muslim that GG got. Looks like an informal Progressive Alliance is in its infancy when combined with the Amersham vote.

[Van wink 2,994]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

How much rent is he paying you? 😉

I don’t have enough rooms 😳

[sonyc 5,541]

3 hours ago, horsefly said:

Spot on sonyc! It's hard to believe that some people are so low that they would harass and threaten the woman whose own sister had been stalked and murdered by a white supremacist in the very same constituency. It was a vile campaign of hate and division reminiscent of the sort of scenes dramatised in Alan Bleasdale's brilliant GBH.

It was indeed a quite remarkable result for Labour given that Galloway stole 8,000 of the votes. It was widely mooted before the result that more than 3,000 votes for Galloway would make it impossible for Labour to win. A brilliant local candidate who epitomised the sort of integrity missing in so many politicians was no doubt a big factor. But it is also clear that the Tories lost a significant number of voters back to the Labour Party who loaned them their vote last time out. Seems like the Red Wall is beginning to be rebuilt.

 

Marina Hyde does do a terrific line in sarcastic humour amongst the sharp wit but this piece is as scorching as I've read.  

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/02/george-galloway-batley-and-spen-byelection?

[ricardo 7,401]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

I don’t have enough rooms 😳

Time you gave Johana Grey and Nightfly the boot.😋

[horsefly 4,318]

28 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Marina Hyde does do a terrific line in sarcastic humour amongst the sharp wit but this piece is as scorching as I've read.  

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/02/george-galloway-batley-and-spen-byelection?

Fantastic! I love the line,  "Each time he turns up, it’s as if he’s answered some invisible tw*t signal."

Edited July 2, 2021 by horsefly

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

14 hours ago, sonyc said:

Marina Hyde does do a terrific line in sarcastic humour amongst the sharp wit but this piece is as scorching as I've read.  

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/02/george-galloway-batley-and-spen-byelection?

There is a case to be made for charging Galloway with flippancy in trying to return to Parliament.

[Creative Midfielder 2,003]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear - if after more than a year as leader, this is all SKS can come up with https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/03/keir-starmer-takes-on-tories-with-buy-british-economic-plan - another tired and risible 'Buy British' campaign then we really are in even deeper sh*t than we thought.

Have lost count of the number of times this type of plan has been rolled out over the years and every time it has been a complete flop for very obvious reasons 🙄 😂

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

21 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear - if after more than a year as leader, this is all SKS can come up with https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/03/keir-starmer-takes-on-tories-with-buy-british-economic-plan - another tired and risible 'Buy British' campaign then we really are in even deeper sh*t than we thought.

Have lost count of the number of times this type of plan has been rolled out over the years and every time it has been a complete flop for very obvious reasons 🙄😂

Very astute of SKS. Lets use the Flag as an emblem to rally around. Doubt the Tories have thought of that.

[Luke M 4]

I think Lisa Nandy would make a great leader someday. Clive Lewis could be good too.

[Creative Midfielder 2,003]

9 hours ago, Luke M said:

I think Lisa Nandy would make a great leader someday. Clive Lewis could be good too.

Maybe but at some point well into the future - at the moment, IMO, there is nobody in the Parliamentary Labour Party who looks like a potentially effective never mind charismatic leader. Persuading Andy Burnham and/or Ed Balls back into Parliament looks like their best bet, although neither of them seem very interested in getting back into the House of Commons and who can blame them for that!

At the danger of repeating myself, unless and until the Labour party decide the join the 21st century and start working with some of the other opposition parties who actually have policies and can articulate them, then I'm afraid that they are toast.

[PurpleCanary 5,585]

On 01/09/2021 at 21:30, Creative Midfielder said:

Maybe but at some point well into the future - at the moment, IMO, there is nobody in the Parliamentary Labour Party who looks like a potentially effective never mind charismatic leader. Persuading Andy Burnham and/or Ed Balls back into Parliament looks like their best bet, although neither of them seem very interested in getting back into the House of Commons and who can blame them for that!

At the danger of repeating myself, unless and until the Labour party decide the join the 21st century and start working with some of the other opposition parties who actually have policies and can articulate them, then I'm afraid that they are toast.

A story today in the FT from the reliable George Parker:

The byelections are a warning sign for Johnson that Labour and the Lib Dems are starting to ruthlessly allocate resources, giving each other a clear run against the Conservatives according to their respective local strengths.

There is no formal pact – Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has dismissed calls for a “progressive alliance” of parties including Labour, Lib Dems and Greens – but evidence of what one Labour figure called “organic” non-aggression pacts on the ground is mounting ...

Tory strategists are carefully watching the impact of what one described as “below the radar” collaboration between the Lib Dems and Labour in both byelections.

“If the left actually got their act together, it could make things much more difficult in 2024,” one said. “We were lucky that the centre-right vote was entirely united at the last election and they weren’t. It could be a game changer.”

[sonyc 5,541]

9 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

A story today in the FT from the reliable George Parker:

The byelections are a warning sign for Johnson that Labour and the Lib Dems are starting to ruthlessly allocate resources, giving each other a clear run against the Conservatives according to their respective local strengths.

There is no formal pact – Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has dismissed calls for a “progressive alliance” of parties including Labour, Lib Dems and Greens – but evidence of what one Labour figure called “organic” non-aggression pacts on the ground is mounting ...

Tory strategists are carefully watching the impact of what one described as “below the radar” collaboration between the Lib Dems and Labour in both byelections.

“If the left actually got their act together, it could make things much more difficult in 2024,” one said. “We were lucky that the centre-right vote was entirely united at the last election and they weren’t. It could be a game changer.”

That is extremely encouraging Purple. I feel very committed to taking part in my local community if a left of centre alliance is possible where I live (Phillip Davies is the MP). We suffer here from a Green/Labour/Lib Dem split in the vote. Every time! I've never been involved politically in any formal way but I would be interested in being part of a campaign for better politics.

In fact, should this present lot be deposed, then I here and now declare I will make a nice big sum donation to the PUPs.

I still don't quite believe a more centrist government will get in because somehow I fear we have yet to move further to the right. It needs to get really horrible (Brexit unravelling, people realising how the pandemic has been handled, folk waking up to the sheer attack on democracy through being denied a civil right of protest and more widespread understanding of cronyism and sleaze....I could add more) before some folk think twice.

Anyway, thanks for sharing this little ray of light into the darkness.

[PurpleCanary 5,585]

3 hours ago, sonyc said:

That is extremely encouraging Purple. I feel very committed to taking part in my local community if a left of centre alliance is possible where I live (Phillip Davies is the MP). We suffer here from a Green/Labour/Lib Dem split in the vote. Every time! I've never been involved politically in any formal way but I would be interested in being part of a campaign for better politics.

In fact, should this present lot be deposed, then I here and now declare I will make a nice big sum donation to the PUPs.

I still don't quite believe a more centrist government will get in because somehow I fear we have yet to move further to the right. It needs to get really horrible (Brexit unravelling, people realising how the pandemic has been handled, folk waking up to the sheer attack on democracy through being denied a civil right of protest and more widespread understanding of cronyism and sleaze....I could add more) before some folk think twice.

Anyway, thanks for sharing this little ray of light into the darkness.

I see that as my role here. As someone once said outside Number 10 Downing Street:

"Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope.“

[Herman 9,829]

An opinion piece about the Bexley election which echoes your points.

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/old-bexley-and-sidcup-by-election-labour-and-lib-dems-relationship-strike-fear-in-tory-hearts-1333390