One of the most profoundly depressing/frustrating seasons ever

[Jim Smith 2,610]

And I fear under this model it won’t ever change for us at this level. It will not enable us to compete consistently in the absence of a lot of luck, momentum and great coaching and this season we have had very little of any of those. Ultimately the lack of ambition/desire flows from the top and is our main weakness but my g*d we’ve not had any breaks this season either (even today Chelsea roll over for Saints after doing the same for Bournemouth). The injuries have been awful as well and Farke has been disappointing. I don’t think he fully grasped how important games against relegation rivals really are and I don’t think he knows how to sh*thouse a win in them. I don’t want him out (we are generally playing well) but I don’t think he’s earnt us any underserved points this season through great subs, tactical changes or being well drilled. 
 

I can’t remember a single point that we got this season that we didn’t deserve and we have left so many out there. We don’t score from set pieces, we concede loads of soft goals from crosses and set plays and we gift teams points they don’t deserve and without them really having earnt them. We seem to have to work so hard for any points unlike some of our rivals. Giving that utterly sh*t Villa side 6 points this season is an utter embarrassment (how we lost today is beyond me) but we should and could also have beaten Wolves and Shef U and the capitulations to Burnley, Palace, Villa abs Watford with just a meek shrug of the shoulders were not acceptable.

i just want the season over with but it’s going to be heart breaking to see this talented side wasted/broken up and another great opportunity tossed away. We had the basis of a very good side when we went up, we still look very close to being one. It’s really demoralising time see it being chucked away but ultimately the owners don’t want it enough. 

[Kenny Foggo 1,194]

This 👍

[hogesar 10,766]

Thought we were good value for all three points today but that does happen. Hopefully we will get a lucky as f*ck 1-0 home win vs Spurs to make up for it.

[Indy 3,471]

While I largely agree, just think.....if Maddison goes to United this summer for the 80 million plus we will get a substantial windfall from that I believe, with the money we have in the bank there will be no need to sell any of our key players.

If we can build on the midfield and defence while keeping our best just think on the championship season we’ll have, then the funds to build for a real stab at the premiership survival the following season.

The key is building year on year not only finances but that U 23 squad, to develop our next best players.

[Jim Smith 2,610]

Just now, Indy said:

While I largely agree, just think.....if Maddison goes to United this summer for the 80 million plus we will get a substantial windfall from that I believe, with the money we have in the bank there will be no need to sell any of our key players.

If we can build on the midfield and defence while keeping our best just think on the championship season we’ll have, then the funds to build for a real stab at the premiership survival the following season.

The key is building year on year not only finances but that U 23 squad, to develop our next best players.

If you think the likes of Pukki, Buendia, Aarons and Cantwell will stick around next season when they will have premier league offers you are sadly naive.

there is absolutely no guarantee we will get promoted again and to be honest what is the point if we are just going to handicap our manager and slide to relegation with barely a whimper because the ambition is simply not there at the club. They don’t care if they are in the premier league or the championship and half our fans seem to have been brainwashed to think the same way. It’s like some weird cult.

[Indy 3,471]

There have to be offers for these players first, secondly I’m not sure too many clubs will match our valuations for these players and if they do, that money goes to fund the next of the replacements. I’m not naive at all, just know there’s no pressure to sell to cover costs as before and we can demand the price we want.

Everyone keeps gong on about this ambition, just go back five seasons when this ambition was funded in January, we then spent five years paying off the debt of over inflated journeymen who put us where we are now!

Why do you think we have millions available when it’s pretty clear we don’t have that money? We have missive wage increases and having to pay other clubs clauses like Buendia for promotion! 
 

Where’s this money you speak of for the lack of ambition?

[hogesar 10,766]

7 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

If you think the likes of Pukki, Buendia, Aarons and Cantwell will stick around next season when they will have premier league offers you are sadly naive.

there is absolutely no guarantee we will get promoted again and to be honest what is the point if we are just going to handicap our manager and slide to relegation with barely a whimper because the ambition is simply not there at the club. They don’t care if they are in the premier league or the championship and half our fans seem to have been brainwashed to think the same way. It’s like some weird cult.

See, this is what I have a bit of a problem with. Those who want new ownership or more money or whatever seem to think they are some all knowing prophecy that are clearly above the other fans. 

The facts staring you in the face unfortunately suggest that spending more money may not have made any difference. The facts staring you in the face suggest different ownership is more likely to be worse than better.

No guarantees yet apparently our fans have been brainwashed. Either that or, somewhat admirably, they see above the instant gratification of this season and have bought into the long term plans of the club? 

Personally? I think we've just not quite had that bit extra needed to stay up this season alongside a really poor injury situation that took our initial momentum away from us. Despite that I'm really proud of the players and management for sticking to principals, playing entertaining football and trying to win games, even if it hasnt worked out.

The crazy thing on top of all that is we arent even quite out of the running completely, yet.

[Jim Smith 2,610]

I don’t think we have millions although we could clearly have spent more this summer without placing the club at risk given the assets we have.

my fundamental point is that these owners do not care if we are premier league or championship and that flies through every single layer of the club and ultimately is why we, as a club (and they as owners) do not have the drive/means to be truly competitive in the top flight. They can’t afford it yet also won’t walk away and I find that hugely frustrating although I acknowledge that a surprisingly large number of our fans just seem to accept it. 

[Indy 3,471]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

I don’t think we have millions although we could clearly have spent more this summer without placing the club at risk given the assets we have.

my fundamental point is that these owners do not care if we are premier league or championship and that flies through every single layer of the club and ultimately is why we, as a club (and they as owners) do not have the drive/means to be truly competitive in the top flight. They can’t afford it yet also won’t walk away and I find that hugely frustrating although I acknowledge that a surprisingly large number of our fans just seem to accept it. 

I don’t like it, I’d rather a billionaire who funds our run to a cup final, but we don’t have that, we won’t have that and why should they just walk away? They’ve been here 20 odd years now, have said what will be and that’s life!

So under this where are the players we should have bought for a few million who are better standard than we have? Do you not think Byram was a bargain? Pukki? Well by that standard I think the coaches and scouts have probably looked to our budget and decided that there isn’t anything we can afford better than we have!

This summer might be totally different, remember we’ve only just got shot of a few players who were on our wages probably taking more than a million a year for no contribution.

[PurpleCanary 6,386]

2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I don’t think we have millions although we could clearly have spent more this summer without placing the club at risk given the assets we have.

my fundamental point is that these owners do not care if we are premier league or championship and that flies through every single layer of the club and ultimately is why we, as a club (and they as owners) do not have the drive/means to be truly competitive in the top flight. They can’t afford it yet also won’t walk away and I find that hugely frustrating although I acknowledge that a surprisingly large number of our fans just seem to accept it. 

No evidence for that. From all they have said they would prefer to be in the Premier League. The stated ambition is to be in the top 26 clubs in the country, which means either being in the PL or in the play-offs to get back there.

That the owners don't talk in a grandiose fashion about some divine right to be in the PL but acknowlege that a club of our size (even, as it happens, if it had extra money behind it) will always find it a struggle to cement  a place there is simply realistic.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

Be careful Jim - the happy clappers will soon be here.

[Surfer 1,547]

IMO If like Delia Smith you have a deep religious faith you tend to take a long term view of things. So “and this too will pass” thinking probably does permeate the planning at the club - for good or bad depending on your point of view. It’s a conservative point of view that is probably well aligned with a largely rural conservative county. 

As for comments that we have “targeted” being one of the top 26 teams in the country that’s in the Premier League or Champioship playoffs. It seems logical to me based on gates etc. What we don’t have is uber-rich owners so we look for a different way forward. Personally I am enjoying this new path, I do accept we will be relegated but I’m looking for the team to build some momentum in the second half rather than go into a negative shell and still lose which does nothing other than drive a wedge between the club and the fans and requires a complete start over the next season. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Surfer

[Indy 3,471]

2 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

Be careful Jim - the happy clappers will soon be here.

It’s not about being happy clears but what’s the point of moaning about things you have absolutely no chance of changing?

Are you for Chase type protests after the season we’ve just had and this one which sets up the bank balance?

[hogesar 10,766]

7 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

Be careful Jim - the happy clappers will soon be here.

Ah yes, those people with a different opinion are 'happy clappers'.

Least people can stay mature, even during the festive period.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

It’s not about being happy clears but what’s the point of moaning about things you have absolutely no chance of changing?

Are you for Chase type protests after the season we’ve just had and this one which sets up the bank balance?

I was on the wind up to be honest - I can’t be angry with this season because I never expected to be here; last season was fantastic and very few could have predicted it (me included). It’s just incredibly disheartening that our brilliant football hasn’t translated to a good season this time around. We’re just short of the quality required and unfortunately our attacking game hasn’t saved us, which I genuinely thought could cover our defensive defincies in the Premier League.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Ah yes, those people with a different opinion are 'happy clappers'.

Least people can stay mature, even during the festive period.

See my above post, poindexter 

[hogesar 10,766]

1 minute ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

See my above post, poindexter 

In which case, wind up worked.

[Indy 3,471]

Just now, Hoola Han Solo said:

I was on the wind up to be honest - I can’t be angry with this season because I never expected to be here; last season was fantastic and very few could have predicted it (me included). It’s just incredibly disheartening that our brilliant football hasn’t translated to a good season this time around. We’re just short of the quality required and unfortunately our attacking game hasn’t saved us, which I genuinely thought could cover our defensive defincies in the Premier League.

Fair enough, sorry matey.

[curious yellow 184]

The ambition at the club is long term. Being in the Prem this season is a bonus, we were told at the start of the season that we climbed a mountain last season and have to climb another to stay up. 

Look at Villa, they have spent the money but could go down, recently they have been in serious financial trouble. An investment is not a gift, they are walking a tightrope. 

I am proud to support this team, what we have done and how we have done it. Things have gone against us this season but we still have a chance, if we get behind the team, possibly those long term objectives can be sooner achieved. 

[Hardhouse44 289]

34 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Ah yes, those people with a different opinion are 'happy clappers'.

Least people can stay mature, even during the festive period.

Or anyone who has a different opinion to you or a life so the don’t have 11k’s of posts is a binner. You make everything fit your remit.

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,960]

After 19 games...points and goal difference for PL seasons past....

2019/2020           12           -19         

2015/2016           20           -10         

2013/2014           19           -16

2012/2013           25           -8            Stay up

2011/2012           22           -6            Stay up

2004/2005           15           -17

Painful reading I'm afraid. Enjoy the season for what it is, hope for the best but prepare for the worst. 

OTBC

[Hardhouse44 289]

5 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

After 19 games...points and goal difference for PL seasons past....

2019/2020           12           -19         

2015/2016           20           -10         

2013/2014           19           -16

2012/2013           25           -8            Stay up

2011/2012           22           -6            Stay up

2004/2005           15           -17

Painful reading I'm afraid. Enjoy the season for what it is, hope for the best but prepare for the worst. 

OTBC

But we’re playing the best football some fans have ever seen so these stats mean nothing! 
I’m old enough and had a season ticket long enough to have seen a lot better.

[Chumino 57]

1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

If you think the likes of Pukki, Buendia, Aarons and Cantwell will stick around next season when they will have premier league offers you are sadly naive.

there is absolutely no guarantee we will get promoted again and to be honest what is the point if we are just going to handicap our manager and slide to relegation with barely a whimper because the ambition is simply not there at the club. They don’t care if they are in the premier league or the championship and half our fans seem to have been brainwashed to think the same way. It’s like some weird cult.

This. 

[Indy 3,471]

24 minutes ago, Chumino said:

This. 

As I posted to JS, please tell us who these players we should have signed for a few million?

I don’t like it, I’d rather a billionaire who funds our run to a cup final, but we don’t have that, we won’t have that and why should they just walk away? They’ve been here 20 odd years now, have said what will be and that’s life.

So under this where are the players we should have bought for a few million who are better standard than we have? Do you not think Byram was a bargain? Pukki? Well by that standard I think the coaches and scouts have probably looked to our budget and decided that there isn’t anything we can afford better than we have!

This summer might be totally different, remember we’ve only just got shot of a few players who were on our wages probably taking more than a million a year for no contribution.

[Kenny Foggo 1,194]

The ambition is long term? This will be our owners 4th relegation, they are quite happy with this... now many more before we question the model or are we happy to have a couple of decent seasons, then a uncompetitive season?so sad we will never see our true potential under these owners. Also bit dull the investment doesn't guarantee success as failure to invest at all 100% guarantees relegation. No successful business or enterprise spends zero or little money on investment.. that is 100% fact

[Midlands Yellow 4,682]

3 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

The ambition is long term? This will be our owners 4th relegation, they are quite happy with this... now many more before we question the model or are we happy to have a couple of decent seasons, then a uncompetitive season?so sad we will never see our true potential under these owners. Also bit dull the investment doesn't guarantee success as failure to invest at all 100% guarantees relegation. No successful business or enterprise spends zero or little money on investment.. that is 100% fact

You’ll be put on the naughty step for this. List of all Championship clubs coming who would love to be us.

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

5 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

The ambition is long term? This will be our owners 4th relegation, they are quite happy with this... now many more before we question the model or are we happy to have a couple of decent seasons, then a uncompetitive season?so sad we will never see our true potential under these owners. Also bit dull the investment doesn't guarantee success as failure to invest at all 100% guarantees relegation. No successful business or enterprise spends zero or little money on investment.. that is 100% fact

No it's not. It's predicated on your interpretation of the word 'successful'. I would argue that we have been extremely successful in the last 12 months while spending zero or little money on investment.

[Surfer 1,547]

14 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

The ambition is long term? This will be our owners 4th relegation, they are quite happy with this... now many more before we question the model or are we happy to have a couple of decent seasons, then a uncompetitive season?so sad we will never see our true potential under these owners. Also bit dull the investment doesn't guarantee success as failure to invest at all 100% guarantees relegation. No successful business or enterprise spends zero or little money on investment.. that is 100% fact

What is our true potential? 

Fact is three teams will be relegated from the PL this year, just like very year. One likely candidate may have gone through three managers this season alone, one likely candidate has spent over 100 million on players since getting promotion a distant third behind us. 

The club has tried the model of throwing money at January sales to buy survival, the key question is are we seen as a strong enough team at the start of the Summer transfer window for players who could genuinely help us improve to want to come here? We haven't landed one of those yet. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

Yes the club have tried the tactic of throwing money at the problem in January. What I would like to have seen is the tactic of doing same in September- every time we have gone up the chance of remaining was wasted because we left it too late. Ashton & Klose being prime examples of players who, had we signed them six months earlier, would have made the difference 

[hogesar 10,766]

9 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Or anyone who has a different opinion to you or a life so the don’t have 11k’s of posts is a binner. You make everything fit your remit.

Yeah, I guess those who have a life only post when we're doing badly, eh?

Top fan.