The Positive Brexit Thread

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

12 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

the majority of Scottish people would have voted for it, weren't it for the interference from the unionists and the BBC, not to speak of the cheating in the vote. A sufficiently large poll is all that is needed, but I do not think Nicola Sturgeon will want to give up her pro Westminster stance. Why should Scotland wait for Boris bounder, father of many, to procrastinate as he does with Brussels?

all it takes is six plus countries to acknowledge and support Scotlands wishes, nothing to do with Westminster or whoever is in power. They have refused a second referendum, that does not mean they can't organise one themselves.

I have no proof that the Scottish referendum was anything but fair, but putting that to one side, you are quite right that the Scottish people could declare some form of unilateral independence, just like Rhodesia did back in the 1960s. But what then? A small country on the edge of Europe whose natural resources are now worth a fraction of what they once were.  An end to suckling from the English teat. An end to jobs in England. An end to research and investment funds from England. An end to English access to the world's markets.  And all given up in the hope that the EU will replace all those functions that the English now provide. A small independent country among twenty-seven others, physically cut off from its new friends, fighting in the lobbies of Brussels for crumbs from the big table. It's not a grand future in reality, is it?

Edited April 30, 2020 by Rock The Boat

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

1 minute ago, A Load of Squit said:

That's what the negotiations are for.

 

Yes. But what do you personally think should happen. Should we allow the EU nations to access UK fishing grounds as they do now, once the transition period has ended?

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

15 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Exactly, and if there are no negotiations over fishing rights, we will continue to see ugly scenes at sea. How many ships have we got? to police waters we deem to be ours?

 

Apparently we have told the EU that we intend to apply our sovereign rights to the UK fishing grounds. What's your opinion on that? Should we let the EU nations continue to fish in UK waters as they do now, or once the transition period has completed should we expect our sovereign rights to be respected?

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

4 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Yes. But what do you personally think should happen. Should we allow the EU nations to access UK fishing grounds as they do now, once the transition period has ended?

If it meant that we gain elsewhere then we could use fishing rights as a negotiating tool, nothing wrong with that.

You have to wait for the negotiations.

 

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

I have no proof that the Scottish referendum was anything but fair, but putting tht to one side, you are quite right that the Scottish people could declare some form of unilateral independence, just like Rhodesia did back in the 1960s. But what then? A small country on the edge of Europe whose natural resources are now worth a fraction of what they once were.  An end to suckling from the English teat. An end to jobs in England. An end to research and investment funds from England. An end to English access to the world's markets.  And all given up in the hope that the EU will replace all those functions that the English now provide. A small independent country among twenty-seven others, physically cut off from its new friends, fighting in the lobbies of Brussels for crumbs from the big table. It's not a grand future in reality, is it?

Scotland was the first to run its countries electricity from wind that was not generated in a stuffy HoC. Scotlands engineering excellence, their fishing fleet, yes they still got one, as for Englands access to the world market, how many trade contracts can you show me that do not involve chlorinated chickens and GM food from America? Globalisation had it, self sufficiency is the new normal on this island, should be for any island really. England will do well to find countries to trade with that not already got a trade agreement with the EU. Do you really think that running away from the EU without honoring long term commitments signed up to, and for all to see, will result in countries flogging to be flogged like the EU? The EU will make it clear that trade countries who want access to the  most lucrative market for their goods will have to make a choice, dealing with a runaway or selling into this market. Scotland won't have to fight for crumbs, Brussels already said as much. get your boat levelled its leaking.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

4 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Apparently we have told the EU that we intend to apply our sovereign rights to the UK fishing grounds. What's your opinion on that? Should we let the EU nations continue to fish in UK waters as they do now, or once the transition period has completed should we expect our sovereign rights to be respected?

well it clearly depends on what sovereign rights to exist we our self apply to others, does it not?

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

3 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

If it meant that we gain elsewhere then we could use fishing rights as a negotiating tool, nothing wrong with that.

You have to wait for the negotiations.

 

Well that's good news because it means if fishing rights is something we can negotiate then we must have taken back control from the EU. That's one of the positives of Brexit. Hope we can repeat this success in other areas.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

1 minute ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

well it clearly depends on what sovereign rights to exist we our self apply to others, does it not?

I think there are international agreements governing what constitutes sovereign fishing rights but to be fair I don't know the details.

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

8 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Well that's good news because it means if fishing rights is something we can negotiate then we must have taken back control from the EU. That's one of the positives of Brexit. Hope we can repeat this success in other areas.

You have to wait until the negotiations to know if we have taken back control or that we have ceded control to the EU as part of a wider deal. Currently we are still in the CFP and the London Convention.

We do not have the vessels to fish our waters and both the Government & the EU know that.

 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

32 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Scotland was the first to run its countries electricity from wind that was not generated in a stuffy HoC. Scotlands engineering excellence, their fishing fleet, yes they still got one, as for Englands access to the world market, how many trade contracts can you show me that do not involve chlorinated chickens and GM food from America? Globalisation had it, self sufficiency is the new normal on this island, should be for any island really. England will do well to find countries to trade with that not already got a trade agreement with the EU. Do you really think that running away from the EU without honoring long term commitments signed up to, and for all to see, will result in countries flogging to be flogged like the EU? The EU will make it clear that trade countries who want access to the  most lucrative market for their goods will have to make a choice, dealing with a runaway or selling into this market. Scotland won't have to fight for crumbs, Brussels already said as much. get your boat levelled its leaking.

The problem with wind is that it still requires subsidies to make it economical to produce, so if Scotland is going to export wind-produced electricity to England it could prove to be a very expensive product. It could even be that the more Scotland sells, the more Scottish taxes have to rise to subsidise the electric generation. But I'll admit I haven't done the costing so can't comment on the details.

Scotland does have an excellent fishing fleet. Unfortunately, it is an industry which it will have to share with all the other EU countries, who have been pushed out of English fishing waters, so that's a lot of boats looking for fewer fish.

England may well have a bad time of it outside the EU but that doesn't help Scotland very much. In fact, it will be bad for Scotland as England will probably still be Scotland's biggest trading partner after Independence,  so a poor England will not be buying Scottish products. The natives might enjoy the schadenfreude of a crippled England but they won't much enjoy the economic repercussions.

And what has the EU promised Scotland? Actually, not very much at all. Scotland thought for a time that they would just walk straight in to the EU without much difficulty. That was before the EU told them they would have to apply and go through the joining process just like  any other nation wishing to join the EU. Given the glacial pace that joining takes, it could be years and years in which Scotland is frozen in some political and fiscal limbo. The English have made it clear that they won't support Scotland using the pound, so they'll be left without a hard currency. However you wish to view it,  the good ship Scottish Independence would be unwise to leave the safety of the harbour.

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Rock The Boat

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

4 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

The problem with wind is that it still requires subsidies to make it economical to produce,

 

https://www.vox.com/2018/5/30/17408602/solar-wind-energy-renewable-subsidy-europe

Europe is building more wind and solar — without any subsidies

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The problem with wind is that it still requires subsidies to make it economical to produce, so if Scotland is going to export wind-produced electricity to England it could prove to be a very expensive product.

 

Two things wrong with that:

Firstly in the UK the subsidies for wind are only a fraction of those needed to build new nuclear capacity but since both this current and the previous Tory governments apparently have problems even with simple arithmetic we are still sinking billions into subsidising nuclear capacity.

Secondly the Westminister government has, for many years, blocked the use of on-shore wind which would produce even cheaper power than the off-shore wind which itself is continually reducing costs. As ALOS above has pointed out other European governments are not as stupid as our own, and I'm pretty sure that an independent Scotland would also do a much better job of governing itself than the w@nkers at Westminister .

[Surfer 1,547]

3 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Apparently we have told the EU that we intend to apply our sovereign rights to the UK fishing grounds. What's your opinion on that? Should we let the EU nations continue to fish in UK waters as they do now, or once the transition period has completed should we expect our sovereign rights to be respected?

Um what UK fishing grounds? Don’t you mean English and Scottish fishing grounds? If so have a look at the map and tell me where England’s fishing grounds exist.... it’s half of an English Channel, half an Irish Sea, nothing north of Northumberland, and a slice of the western approaches off Devon and Cornwall, bounded to the north by Ireland and the south by France. 
 

if you really cared a jot about the UK you would be working hand in hand with the Scots and not treating them as latter-day economic parasites. 

[BigFish 1,988]

4 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Yes. But what do you personally think should happen. Should we allow the EU nations to access UK fishing grounds as they do now, once the transition period has ended?

Yes

[BigFish 1,988]

Seems like the most trsuted newspaper is the Guardian. Who'd have thought it.......

[SwindonCanary 455]

8 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

The transition period ends at the end of this year, until then nothing has changed on fishing rights.

 

They are now talking about next year when we have left (watch the film)

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

56 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

They are now talking about next year when we have left (watch the film)

The negotiations haven't taken place so whatever your RWNJ says in the film is b0lloxs.

 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

11 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

https://www.vox.com/2018/5/30/17408602/solar-wind-energy-renewable-subsidy-europe

Europe is building more wind and solar — without any subsidies

This isn't actually true

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

9 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Two things wrong with that:

Firstly in the UK the subsidies for wind are only a fraction of those needed to build new nuclear capacity but since both this current and the previous Tory governments apparently have problems even with simple arithmetic we are still sinking billions into subsidising nuclear capacity.

Secondly the Westminister government has, for many years, blocked the use of on-shore wind which would produce even cheaper power than the off-shore wind which itself is continually reducing costs. As ALOS above has pointed out other European governments are not as stupid as our own, and I'm pretty sure that an independent Scotland would also do a much better job of governing itself than the w@nkers at Westminister .

Comparing the costs of wind vs nuclear doesnt help Scotland in there quest to find something sellable to England after Independence. What is to stop England building windfarms along the northern border so it doesnt have to rely on a foreign country for power? 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

8 hours ago, Surfer said:

Um what UK fishing grounds? Don’t you mean English and Scottish fishing grounds? If so have a look at the map and tell me where England’s fishing grounds exist.... it’s half of an English Channel, half an Irish Sea, nothing north of Northumberland, and a slice of the western approaches off Devon and Cornwall, bounded to the north by Ireland and the south by France. 
 

if you really cared a jot about the UK you would be working hand in hand with the Scots and not treating them as latter-day economic parasites. 

The Scots will be sharing their fishing grounds with up to twenty seven other countries. Thats going to be a tight squeeze. English fishing grounds would be.under sole.English control - if you pardon the pun. 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

8 hours ago, BigFish said:

Yes

Perhaps we should let them shag all our women as well. 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

7 hours ago, BigFish said:

Seems like the most trsuted newspaper is the Guardian. Who'd have thought it.......

Who'd a thought lefties would respond most to Twitter surveys,?

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

4 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

The negotiations haven't taken place so whatever your RWNJ says in the film is b0lloxs.

 

Perhaps you missed the story among all the covid stuff but fishing was discussed at a meeting with Barnier where the EU said they wanted access to UK fishing grounds in the same way that they have access now. The UK response was that the EU has to recognise the sovereignty of our fishing grounds. That is to say, the UK has control of its fishing grounds. 

[Surfer 1,547]

4 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The Scots will be sharing their fishing grounds with up to twenty seven other countries. Thats going to be a tight squeeze. English fishing grounds would be.under sole.English control - if you pardon the pun. 

Oh well in that case they'll be making money licensing the catch then eh? Meanwhile England won't have much of any fishing grounds to make a catch in. Lose access to the northern Atlantic and you don't have much left. 

I know you will hate it as it's The Guardian but this sets out what's happening in fishing. Another Brexit disaster.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/31/myth-brexit-bonanza-uk-fishing-exposed-no-deal

[Herman 9,779]

As has been explained ad nauseum is that we import most of the fish we eat and export most that we catch. What these clowns have done is make it harder and more expensive to do both. 

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

6 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Perhaps you missed the story among all the covid stuff but fishing was discussed at a meeting with Barnier where the EU said they wanted access to UK fishing grounds in the same way that they have access now. The UK response was that the EU has to recognise the sovereignty of our fishing grounds. That is to say, the UK has control of its fishing grounds. 

The meeting takes place in June, preliminary talks have taken place where the future of fishing amongst other thing was discussed. Currently nothing has changed. The RWNJ's youtube piece was b0ll0x.

 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

EU lapdog of China

Edited May 1, 2020 by Rock The Boat

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

5 hours ago, Surfer said:

Oh well in that case they'll be making money licensing the catch then eh? Meanwhile England won't have much of any fishing grounds to make a catch in. Lose access to the northern Atlantic and you don't have much left. 

I know you will hate it as it's The Guardian but this sets out what's happening in fishing. Another Brexit disaster.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/31/myth-brexit-bonanza-uk-fishing-exposed-no-deal

They will have to do the Jesus trick with the loaves and fishes to feed all the Scottish people 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

4 hours ago, Herman said:

As has been explained ad nauseum is that we import most of the fish we eat and export most that we catch. What these clowns have done is make it harder and more expensive to do both. 

We will no longer have to import fish caught in English waters but obviously we will still have to import stuff like tuna that refuses to swim by these shores. We will also have more to export which means more cash going into English tills. Kerching!

Edited May 1, 2020 by Rock The Boat