The Positive Brexit Thread

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

24 minutes ago, SHRIMPER said:

Simple answer. He is a gormless fvckwit.

Yep I'm afraid he is and based on his last few posts he's getting worse - perhaps he's found a new and even more ridculous fake news site.

If he thinks that no one who has an opinion about Brexit should be working at the BBC then he presumably thinks it should have been shut down after the referendum as clearly there are very few people, and especially reporters, who had no opinion either way 😂

Trouble is, as you say he doesn't think...............

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

On 09/05/2020 at 08:35, T said:

The supposed argument for Brexit  was sovereignty which might have had some credibility of those making these claims hasn’t made xenophobic and islamophobic comments undermine their arguments and motives. The supposed fear was a federal Europe. This crisis has highlighted much of the lies of Brexit in particular that the indivzcountries have been very sovereign in dealing with this crisis and that federalism even if it was a threat as we’ve seen in the federal states of the US and Germany that it is the individual states which are making decisions. It is actually the UK where decision making which is very centralised and what a disaster that has been. I’ve always been   In favour of local decision making as far as makes sense but clearly it is logical that international matters like international trade should be coordinated and agreed. internationally. The sovereignty and immigration arguments were always lacking Substance. This crisis has merely fully exposed the Brexit arguments and the perverted damaging priorities of the hard right 

I don't see how given that the UK, and the rest of the EU, have always remained sovereign nations who at most have 'pooled' elements of sovereignty which happens to some extent in most trade agreements nowadays and certainly in our membership of NATO - don't hear too many Brexiteers bitching about that.

But agree with you completely about local decision making - the UK is by far the most centralised European country of those of which I have any knowledge\experience and that has been a disaster, not just during this crisis, but for a long while - hence the Scots, Irish and even the Welsh queueing up for independence. Think many in the north of England and Cornwall wouldn't mind joining in either!!

[BigFish 1,986]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

Will the disastrous first quarter figures be nothing to do with Brexit? 

First quarter, second quarter, recession.........first quarter 2001 all nothing to do with leaving the EU you will be told @Herman. The Virus will be the Brexwits get out jail free card on this. Every promise that was made and was believed by them will be broken but it won't be Brexit's fault. The "easiest trade deal in history" won't happen, "they need us more than we need them" will prove to be untrue all those trade deals that "were ready to go" will turn out to be a mirage. That is why the RWNJ web sites keep feeding stale attack lines from 2016 to suckers like @SwindonCanary. It is because Brexit chickens are coming home to roost and they have nothing, absolutely nothing, positive to point to in response. But it is not their fault. Oh no, all down to the virus.

[BigFish 1,986]

Looks like the government have confirmed there will be a border in the Irish sea.......

Johnson has the EU confused, he is giving them everthing they ask for

[SwindonCanary 455]

I've pointed out time and time again why the BBC is bias , all you lot seem to forget that, now many people are coming out and pointing it out themselves ? I think I should be commended for being right.  

[Surfer 1,547]

19 hours ago, BigFish said:

Looks like the government have confirmed there will be a border in the Irish sea.......

Johnson has the EU confused, he is giving them everthing they ask for

Yup, roll on the (re)United Irish Republic. What a huge embarrassment for the Conservative and Unionist Party. Still I do wonder if many of the current membership could point to N.Ireland on a map anyway, or explain just why there is a N.Ireland....so well played Boris! What a blinder ..... are you going back to Belfast anytime soon to explain it all away to the local Chamber of Commerce? 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Surfer

[Herman 9,756]

No wonder Sinn Fein kept their heads down these last few years. 

[Herman 9,756]

6 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

I've pointed out time and time again why the BBC is bias , all you lot seem to forget that, now many people are coming out and pointing it out themselves ? I think I should be commended for being right.  

You Brexiters were promised a smart screen, top of the range HDTV. You're going to get an analogue, portable radio. With no batteries. 

And all you can do is whine about the BBC!! It's the clowns you have been cheering that you should be angry with. 

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

8 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

I've pointed out time and time again why the BBC is bias , all you lot seem to forget that, now many people are coming out and pointing it out themselves ? I think I should be commended for being right.  

You “won”. Why are you still so bitter?

[Bagster 101]

This is a short video for remainers

Why don't you 🙂

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

On 09/05/2020 at 05:57, Herman said:

That's a shame. I was hoping he would be spending his time in a cell with Tommy. 

 

Full statement from the EC. Vote Leave still broke electoral laws.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/statement-metropolitan-polices-investigation-vote-leave-and-darren-grimes

the electoral commission and its policies are chained to the party in power by their throats, it is not Independent and never has been as all their funding is dependent on how they perform in the eyes of the party in power. Just as the BBC. It guarantees the status Quo.

[SwindonCanary 455]

7 hours ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

You “won”. Why are you still so bitter?

Who's bitter ? Just believe me instead of trying to prove me wrong with everything I post. Remember I WON !      👍

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

36 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Who's bitter ? Just believe me instead of trying to prove me wrong with everything I post. Remember I WON !      👍

What did you win?

Maybe you should stick to CBeebies Swindo, more your level mate 👍🏻

[Surfer 1,547]

10 hours ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

You “won”. Why are you still so bitter?

Because being bitter is the whole point. I am bitter, and I want you to (finally) acknowledge that I am bitter, it's my right to be bitter, and you have no right to tell me I should't be bitter. And I will continue to be bitter, because what I said had to happen to not make me bitter any more hasn't been done right and I'm really bitter about that. And you should be bitter about that too. 

Wash, rinse, repeat. 

[Herman 9,756]

This will go well for rural Norfolk.

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

2 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

Who's bitter ? Just believe me instead of trying to prove me wrong with everything I post. Remember I WON !      👍

We don't try, when you are wrong, which is a lot of the time, we tell you that you are wrong and you are.

As you have repeatedly lied previously you'll excuse us if we are naturally sceptical of what you post.

 

[Badger 2,405]

Bloomberg Economics that the cost of Brexit will have topped £200 billion before the end of the year - before we even move to "the new arrangements." Sorry if it has been posted before.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-10/-170-billion-and-counting-the-cost-of-brexit-for-the-u-k?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=business&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business

 

Research by Bloomberg Economics estimates that the economic cost of Brexit has already hit 130 billion pounds ($170 billion), with a further 70 billion pounds set to be added by the end of this year. That’s based on the damage caused by the U.K. untethering from its Group of Seven peers over the past three years...There is a strong historic correlation between the U.K. and G-7 countries. But they have been diverging since the vote to leave the EU, with the British economy now 3% smaller than it could have been had the relationship been maintained.

• Loss of real GDP in 2017, 2018, 2019 (BE estimate) and 2020 (BE estimate) are illustrated by the changing colours.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Badger
Explained the chart

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187]

Northern Ireland born British and Irish win EU citizenship rights

I thought the UK was leaving as one. All together, all the same?

 

[SwindonCanary 455]

last month 20,730 successful applications were made in Swindon that granted settled status, meaning they have a permanent right to remain in the UK.  This was after Feb had 25,254, March had 28,265 and April 30,269 !  That's over a million more, people  moving into Swindon, it's no wonder why they are building the new eastern development here !  Portuguese and polish being the most. Now i know you are going to say I'm racist , but once again you would be wrong, as once again it's the numbers, over two million into a town the size of Swindon (222,193) Is totally wrong !

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

11 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

last month 20,730 successful applications were made in Swindon that granted settled status, meaning they have a permanent right to remain in the UK.  This was after Feb had 25,254, March had 28,265 and April 30,269 !  That's over a million more, people  moving into Swindon, it's no wonder why they are building the new eastern development here !  Portuguese and polish being the most. Now i know you are going to say I'm racist , but once again you would be wrong, as once again it's the numbers, over two million into a town the size of Swindon (222,193) Is totally wrong !

I think you need to read the story again.

[Herman 9,756]

Some maths wouldn't go amiss.

[Van wink 2,994]

"A flagship Nissan plant in Sunderland could be used to make Renault vehicles as part of a deal between the two car-making behemoths - boosting  the fortunes of thousands of British workers.

The two companies - which operate under global strategic alliance - have opened talks to transfer production of the Renault Kadjar and Captur models from Spain to the North-East as part of a wider shake-up of global operations.

Renault is mulling plans to dramatically cut its vehicle range, axing its Espace minivan in a €2bn (£1.8bn) cost-saving plan to be unveiled later this month."

Edited May 14, 2020 by Van wink

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

last month 20,730 successful applications were made in Swindon that granted settled status, meaning they have a permanent right to remain in the UK.  This was after Feb had 25,254, March had 28,265 and April 30,269 !  That's over a million more, people  moving into Swindon, it's no wonder why they are building the new eastern development here !  Portuguese and polish being the most. Now i know you are going to say I'm racist , but once again you would be wrong, as once again it's the numbers, over two million into a town the size of Swindon (222,193) Is totally wrong !

It is because you are racist, if they they were all British you wouldn’t have even mentioned it.

[Surfer 1,547]

7 hours ago, Herman said:

This will go well for rural Norfolk.

Indeed. But don’t worry there is no US trade deal to be had. President Trump is heading to be removed from office this November, plus Congress must approve any trade agreement. There is no way an FTA gets approved before the election, despite the urgent political need of Donald and Boris to say that there is one. So a declaration is quite likely, an agreement is not going to happen until next year when President Biden takes over. When he does the focus will be on repairing links to NATO and the EU, so the UK had better be prepared to revert to its previous behavior or be ignored. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Surfer

[Bagster 101]

It's amazing how many people here are totally convinced with , we need more people.

It's a corporate con and an easy growth strategy for any government.

It's not real growth though ,is it.

More people equals , more houses, more congestion, more pollution, more destruction of our countryside.

More people equals less space per person ( remember when houses came with actual real gardens) more people with less space comes with a higher risk of pandemics.

How can you on one hand be pro environment and on the other be pro immigration.

The world is heading for a population implosion, it's part of the fix for the planet, if you don't believe me look at replacement rates.

It would be best , if we as a country started to consider other methods of measuring our economy other than GDP and other methods of paying for our pensioners going forward.

This pandemic has shown our economic structure to be weak.

We need to see trials of some form of UBI, maybe issuing every person in the country with carbon credits and having carbon credit schemes. This way any of the hypocritical rich would be limited in the amount of carbon they could use, if they want to go beyond what they are allowed then they have to buy it. These credits would be issued to every child on birth any credit not used can be traded and start building trust funds for every young person.

We also have a fractured society , it's time we restarted national service, not particularly military, maybe a green national service.

This pandemic , the climate emergency and brexit are a sign that we need to become more self sufficient as a nation.

It's literally the only way to be.

 

 

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

10 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

last month 20,730 successful applications were made in Swindon that granted settled status, meaning they have a permanent right to remain in the UK.  This was after Feb had 25,254, March had 28,265 and April 30,269 !  That's over a million more, people  moving into Swindon, it's no wonder why they are building the new eastern development here !  Portuguese and polish being the most. Now i know you are going to say I'm racist , but once again you would be wrong, as once again it's the numbers, over two million into a town the size of Swindon (222,193) Is totally wrong !

Here's the truth

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/18450162.much-eu-citizens-swindon-applied-stay-britain-post-brexit/

It's not difficult to see where Swindon has lied.

 

[Badger 2,405]

3 hours ago, Bagster said:

This pandemic has shown our economic structure to be weak.

 

Much of what you wrote was interesting and I agree with quite a lot of it. The simple truth is however, is that the message of many "economic nationalists," not that I am accusing you of this, is confused. 

One example of this is the aid budget. Many of those that are most opposed to this budget fail to recognise that one of the key drivers of emigration from LDCs is poverty. Spending billions on LDC development plans is one way that we could (in partnership) help develop countries to ease the poverty that acts as a such a driver of emigration. However, many economic nationalists are strongly anti-immigration are also opposed to a generous aid budget.

Another example is on the demand side in the UK. Currently we need immigration because of labour shortages, which are likely to continue. One of the main ways around this would be massive investment to replace labour with capital. However, despite one of the lowest rates of corporate taxation in the the G20, our investment record is very poor because our planning structure for economic development is almost non existent, due to our blind faith in free market capitalism.

The solution to the world's problems will not come with the strange hybrid of economic nationalism and free market capitalism bound together by a populism which just blurs the contradictions of such an approach. The current crisis does give us a chance to rethink things, but I am not optimistic that either the UK or the US has the leadership to grasp such an opportunity. (And other countries that I know less well).

[sonyc 5,516]

These last two posts by Bagster and Badger I reckon are the best two posts on this thread. Insightful and purposive in fact, rather than defensive. Such a lot there to think about.

As a green-leaning poster, I can see the validity of many of the points you make Bagster (with apology if you find green's hypocritical....it's always difficult to reconcile lots of behaviours living in a free market economy, where you are often forced or decide to compromise). Likewise, Badger, I can see little or no chance of the investment levels in infrastructure required, certainly not now. I sometimes think of countries like Norway as more self-sufficient and yet not self-isolating.

Anyway, I wanted to thank you both. It's given me something more to think about rather than C19!

[Bagster 101]

@Badger Am I right in thinking that we are one of the most generous countries in the world when it comes to economic aid?

It's weird then, that despite this  economic migrants walk straight through Europe to get to us 

The aid budget, is just a budget, it means nothing. How are we spending this money.

This should matter very much and for two reasons

1. We don't have that money, we are borrowing it. This is debt we leave to our children

2.It does not seem to stop the flow.

I am not against immigration, we need the new DNA. But there comes a point where you need to say enough.

We are at that point now.

We don't invest in technology because we have a lax immigration policy. I mean, why bother.

It's like training, we don't bother because we can poach people from other countries.

So in my view, we give aid, we steal the best people and then we need to give aid. The neverending circle .

You see supra nationalism as the answer , I see that as only giving more power to fewer people, fewer ideas. Basically everyone chucking all their eggs in one basket. 

Look at the EU , every time there is a crisis, especially monetary it struggles. What's good for Germany is terrible for Greece, fudge is always the answer but never the solution.

The nation state is diversity, it must be allowed to be different. The English brain looks at problems differently to a French brain. The nation state has beauty that supranational organisations like the UN and EU are threatening.

There is a balance to be struck between nationalism and supranationalism , I get that.

But I honestly feel that globalisation is turning the more anarchic nation states or the "rainforest" into the plantation. This loss of diversity, in my opinion, is more than just tragic.

 

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

12 hours ago, Van wink said:

"A flagship Nissan plant in Sunderland could be used to make Renault vehicles as part of a deal between the two car-making behemoths - boosting  the fortunes of thousands of British workers.

The two companies - which operate under global strategic alliance - have opened talks to transfer production of the Renault Kadjar and Captur models from Spain to the North-East as part of a wider shake-up of global operations.

Renault is mulling plans to dramatically cut its vehicle range, axing its Espace minivan in a €2bn (£1.8bn) cost-saving plan to be unveiled later this month."

But this is impossible!! The Remainers told us so!