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Jools

The Positive Brexit Thread

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As has been noted, gammon is a state of mind rather than a skin colour. A lot of salty old gammon are from the ethnic minorities as well. 

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8 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Not to mention blaming the cost of the Coronavirus for not fulfilling their promises to level up the deprived areas of the UK...

 

 

Border checks with another part of the UK. Why? 

Because of Corona virus. 

Oh, OK then.

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What I'm really concerned about with coronavirus impacting on Brexit is that much as per Flybe many a weakened industry may take a coronavirus shutdown as a good excuse to rationalize especially if the Brexit talks as is highly likely given any lack of realism are going nowhere. The timing is likely perfect i.e. June.    

So if you have a 'coronavirus' enforced closure of all the car plants - how many will truly 'reopen' ?

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3 hours ago, Herman said:

As has been noted, gammon is a state of mind rather than a skin colour. A lot of salty old gammon are from the ethnic minorities as well. 

If you can use this term without holding an image of a middle aged white man with flushed cheeks then perhaps you have a point, but I bet you can't.

Some people may be attempting to apropriate and sanitize  the word but it cannot so easily be de-coupled from its origins. These attempts prove only that there is clearly a question mark hanging over it

I find RWNJ to be a perfectly adequate term that doesn't need to play so close to the edge.

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I'm prepared to be called a hypocrite but that is not something I am going to lose sleep over. If a load of rancourous old bigots get upset at being the victims of very mild bigotry then it could be a valuable lesson that they learn. Probably a bit late for some. 

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Herman said:

I'm prepared to be called a hypocrite but that is not something I am going to lose sleep over. If a load of rancourous old bigots get upset at being the victims of very mild bigotry then it could be a valuable lesson that they learn. Probably a bit late for some. 

The end justifies the means is the argument here.

Give these old bigots a taste of their own medicine.  Its the only way that they will learn...

...But they won't, this sort of attack only entrenches opinions and alienates others who share the characteristic but not the views.

There are ways of calling out unacceptable views.   This isnt the best one.

 

Edited by Barbe bleu

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We've been calling out bigotry on this and the other thread since the beginning and some are still exactly the same. I'm sorry as you do have a valid argument but I am still going to call Paul Moy et al salty old gammon. 

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

I'm prepared to be called a hypocrite but that is not something I am going to lose sleep over. If a load of rancourous old bigots get upset at being the victims of very mild bigotry then it could be a valuable lesson that they learn. Probably a bit late for some. 

Old bigot shouts at people.

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Hot take from the saltiest lump of pork product. 

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15 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Not to mention blaming the cost of the Coronavirus for not fulfilling their promises to level up the deprived areas of the UK...

 

 

They're not blaming the virus, yet, but they are postponing announcements on infrastructure until after the budget. 

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Nissan invests £400m in UK car plant despite Brexit warning

Japanese group prepares to build Qashqai model at Sunderland site despite EU tariff threat

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Nissan invests £400m in UK car plant despite Brexit warning

Japanese group prepares to build Qashqai model at Sunderland site despite EU tariff threat

Perhaps if you also reported the Nissan warnings given by Gupta over tariffs today  I'd take more notice.

Old news. Spin for the simple. Nothing changed.

 

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49 minutes ago, Herman said:

Is that a real fact or a Winky fact? 

Isn't it a several years old Winky fact which he's rolled out again hoping that we won't notice that today's real Nissan news is their first quarterly loss since 2012 and the cancellation of last year's share dividend. Plus the chief exec saying 'we need to do more re-structuring than originally planned' - when Japanese car companies start talking like that I think we all have a pretty clear idea how things are going to turn out....

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

It looks like talks are going as well as expected, the major sticking points at the moment is in the services sector

https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/articles/news/talks-between-eu-and-uk-have-entered-“crucial-phase”-says-senior-mep

Oh all right. then. As services are over 80% of the UK economy, I'm glad we've been focusing efforts on the other 20%.

Edited by Surfer

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On Friday Ashwani Gupta, Nissan’s chief operating officer, said the UK site “continues to set the benchmark for productivity and quality”.

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10 minutes ago, Van wink said:

On Friday Ashwani Gupta, Nissan’s chief operating officer, said the UK site “continues to set the benchmark for productivity and quality”.

Quite right - but as I've often pointed out all Nissan is doing what I would do - if it ain't losing money but you're unsure of the future put in the minimum investment (£52M) to maintain status quo and options (this is afterall an old commitment both from Nissan - and May's govt) - 'milk' the plant. It can go to the knackers yard later if needed.

That and they don't think the UK government can be quite that stupid on 'No Deal' and tariffs (although I suspect they are beginning to have their doubts).

Anway - if you want act as credible commentator quote the whole story (the '3' options for the plant longer term etc).  The other two aren't so Brexit fluffy.

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Not sure if we are supposed to quote whole articles from the FT. The salient point is that despite all the profits of doom Nissan are not leaving, far from it in fact.

Who was it that said the people of Sunderland had voted to close the Nissan factory?

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The salient point from the FT article is that this is part of ongoing investments and have been going on for the last few years. The headlines from the local papers are more factual.

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Not sure if we are supposed to quote whole articles from the FT. The salient point is that despite all the profits of doom Nissan are not leaving, far from it in fact.

Who was it that said the people of Sunderland had voted to close the Nissan factory?

No. Nothing infact has really changed. Nissan are continuing their previously announced investment and are yet making the very same warnings. As Herman says the local rags are in fact far more factual and balanced... not trying to cherry pick and enlarge facts out of context to meet some political spin.

Nissan want largely free frictionless trade. It's up to Johnson to deliver that knowing the consequences if he doesn't. Ignore the Boris bluster. It's all in detail.

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5 hours ago, Van wink said:

On Friday Ashwani Gupta, Nissan’s chief operating officer, said the UK site “continues to set the benchmark for productivity and quality”.

So as I stated earlier in the thread it looks like Nissan are going to close its EU plants and transfer production to Sunderland instead, raising its UK output from 350,000 to 400,000 vehicles a year 👍 The Micra, which is currently manufactured in a Renault plant in France, will move to Britain (Swindon has a ready-made site 😎) while its van plant near Barcelona will be closed 😢😀 

Nissan have twigged that the prices of many cars currently imported to Britain will rise if a trade deal fails (Looking likely thanks to the EU) - Cars made in Britain will therefore have a competitive advantage -- Under Nissan’s scenario it would increase its share of the UK market from a current 4% to as much as 20% 🚀

Yet another reminder that the boot is not on the EU’s foot when it comes to trade negotiations 👍

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Yes dear, they are going to put all their eggs into the smaller UK market and completely disregard the vastly bigger EU market. If they do this then they deserve to collapse.

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Kakistocracy. A country run by idiots for idiots.

 

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15 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Quite right - but as I've often pointed out all Nissan is doing what I would do - if it ain't losing money but you're unsure of the future put in the minimum investment (£52M) to maintain status quo and options (this is afterall an old commitment both from Nissan - and May's govt) - 'milk' the plant. It can go to the knackers yard later if needed.

That and they don't think the UK government can be quite that stupid on 'No Deal' and tariffs (although I suspect they are beginning to have their doubts).

Anway - if you want act as credible commentator quote the whole story (the '3' options for the plant longer term etc).  The other two aren't so Brexit fluffy.

If Brexit campaigners had been truthful by telling the whole story and putting events in context the UK would still be in the EU.

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14 hours ago, Jools said:

So as I stated earlier in the thread it looks like Nissan are going to close its EU plants and transfer production to Sunderland instead, raising its UK output from 350,000 to 400,000 vehicles a year 👍 The Micra, which is currently manufactured in a Renault plant in France, will move to Britain (Swindon has a ready-made site 😎) while its van plant near Barcelona will be closed 😢😀 

Nissan have twigged that the prices of many cars currently imported to Britain will rise if a trade deal fails (Looking likely thanks to the EU) - Cars made in Britain will therefore have a competitive advantage -- Under Nissan’s scenario it would increase its share of the UK market from a current 4% to as much as 20% 🚀

Yet another reminder that the boot is not on the EU’s foot when it comes to trade negotiations 👍

It is all getting a bit excitable over a historic, and tiny, investment decision that resulted in the unveiling of new plant now, a decision that was only taken because of guarantees and subsidies from the UK government. Will the government be expected to underwrite all the increased costs that come with Brexit, or will it only be the iconic Brexit images that are supported e.g. will taxpayers be expected to pay UK fisherman to catch fish they can't sell?

It looks like yet more deflection as the UK economy slides towards recession and the government's fabled infrastructure and environment plan fails to arrive. Does anyone on here expect the first Johnson budget to be anything but a damp squib?

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EXCLUSIVE: The EU loses Round One of Brexit Trade Negotiations 👍

Barnier banged to (human) rights in shocking expose of EU hypocrisy

eu_rights.jpg

Barnier lectures UK on European Convention on Human Rights, forgetting EU hasn't signed it 😀


The EU has demanded that any trade deal with the UK be contingent on the UK making a commitment in the new trade treaty to abide by the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR).

On Thursday, the EU’s Chief Negotiator Monsieur Michel Barnier got very exercised about this subject in his long statement in French following the first round of UK-EU trade talks this week.

There’s just one 'leetle, eenzy-weenzy' problem for Monsieur Barnier

Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary

The European Convention on Human Rights

The UK signed the ECHR in 1950 and ratified it the following year

The EU has still not signed nor ratified it

echr_eu_not_ratified.jpg

Above: Details of Council of Europe Treaty No.005 - Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, commonly known as “The European Convention on Human Rights”
[Source: © Council of Europe, as at Sat 07 Mar 2020.] - click to enlarge

Barnier on “EUman rights”

Below is an excerpt from the statement given by the EU’s Chief Negotiator to the world's press on Thursday.

Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary

Michel Barnier's summary of first round trade negotiations

barnier_2017_comofregions.jpg  👈  W⚓

© EU Commission

“Ambitious cooperation requires commitments on both sides with regard to the fundamental rights of individuals.

“However, the United Kingdom has informed us that it does not want to make a formal commitment to continue to apply the European Convention on Human Rights. Nor does it want the European Court of Justice to play its full role in the interpretation of European law - and this is particularly serious when it comes to the fundamental rights of individuals.

“If this position is maintained, this would have an immediate and concrete effect on the ambition of our cooperation, which will remain possible on the basis of international conventions, but which cannot be as ambitious as we wish.”

- Michel Barnier, EU Chief Negotiator – Statement after first round talks, Brussels, 05 Mar 2020

Is it really true the EU has not signed nor ratified the “European Convention on Human Rights”?

Bizarrely, yes it’s true.

At the end of Round One of the trade talks with the UK last week, Michel Barnier lectured the UK at great length about human rights, and the need for the UK to include its commitment to the European Convention on Human Rights in the trade treaty.

Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary

Sadly Mister Barnier seems to have forgotten one very crucial point:

The EU has not signed nor ratified the European Convention on Human Rights

How is this remotely possible?

The EU has a legal obligation – to say nothing of any moral obligation – to sign the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) as a result of the Lisbon Treaty signed by all EU member countries back in December 2007.

For those politicians such as the Rt Hon Kenneth Clarke MP, who boasted of never having read EU Treaties, they could look this obligation up in Article 6 (2) of the Lisbon Treaty.

clarke.jpg

As the EU Parliament said:

“The purpose of the EU’s accession to the ECHR is to contribute to the creation of a single European legal space, achieving a coherent framework of human rights protection throughout Europe.”

Does irony ever get more delicious than this?

In a move of such delicious irony we barely know where to start, it was the European Court of Justice that stepped in and prevented the EU from signing the European Convention on Human Rights. It seems that in 2014 the Justices decided that the ECHR might override their powers under the EU Treaties.

Apparently “accession [to the ECHR] was liable to upset the underlying balance of the EU and undermine the autonomy of EU law.”

Since 2014 the EU Commission – of which Michel Barnier is an employee – has repeatedly said that it considers accession to the ECHR to be a priority. Six years later and the EU is still not even close to either signature or ratification. And this is almost 70 years after the UK signed the Convention.

Does the EU have any chance of lifting itself up to UK standards?

In order to move closer to a point where the EU could say it was lifting itself to UK standards, the EU would have to sign and ratify the Convention. For this to happen, the following will be required:-

  • A renegotiation of the Convention to suit the EU Commission and the EU Court of Justice
  • Unanimous agreement by the EU Council
  • Agreement and ratification by all EU Member States
  • Agreement and ratification by all non-EU states which are party to the Convention
  • Approval by the EU Parliament
  • Approval by the Council of Europe

One of the ‘non-EU states’ we refer to above which would need to agree to any changes will be the UK, of course. To remind readers, the UK has been a signatory of the Convention for almost 70 years, since 1951.

Observations

The question to Monsieur Barnier must therefore surely be this

“When is the EU going to lift its standards to the level of British standards on human rights?”

Tomorrow we will turn the screw a little more. We will show how the EU27 are seriously underperforming the UK in a crucial area of human rights.

As usual we will use the latest figures from the EU itself, released only days ago.

Finally, please speak English, Mister Barnier

Various members of the Brexit Facts4EU.Org team are fluent in European languages other than English. This is one of the reasons we can bring you news from around the EU in the way we do. We enjoy different languages in the same way we love different European cultures. This is one of the reasons we love Europe but hate the EU, with all the EU's attempts at homogenisation and its clear desire to destroy the identity of individual nations.

When it comes to absolute fundamentals such as the UK-EU trade talks, however, we feel it is simply unacceptable for the EU Commission to publish long statements in a minority language such as French. On Thursday the vast majority of Mr Barnier’s statement after the three days of trade talks was in French.

These talks are important. Everyone across the EU needs to understand what is being said. The EU’s common language is English. Please use it, Mister Barnier.

 

[ Sources: EU Commission | Council of Europe | EU Parliament | ] Politicians and journalists can contact us for details, as ever.

Brexit Facts4EU.Org, Sat 07 Mar 2020

 

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34 minutes ago, BigFish said:

It is all getting a bit excitable over a historic, and tiny, investment decision that resulted in the unveiling of new plant now, a decision that was only taken because of guarantees and subsidies from the UK government. Will the government be expected to underwrite all the increased costs that come with Brexit, or will it only be the iconic Brexit images that are supported e.g. will taxpayers be expected to pay UK fisherman to catch fish they can't sell?

It looks like yet more deflection as the UK economy slides towards recession and the government's fabled infrastructure and environment plan fails to arrive. Does anyone on here expect the first Johnson budget to be anything but a damp squib?

Anything the Johnson government will be a negative for you, BF. We understand it goes with the territory. But isn't it wonderful that a British government can choose whether or not it wishes to support an industry? Isn't it wonderful that the decision will be made here in the UK and not in a foreign country by a bunch of foreign politicians that we never elected?

And isn't it wonderful that if you don't like it you get the chance to vote the b#ggers out. Something we couldn't do when we were shackled to the EU?

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