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The Positive Brexit Thread

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I think you're being very naive about the current hyping of AI although there is actually very little 'I' involved at the moment, just the onward march of machines crunching bigger and bigger data sets faster and faster - in other words business as usual in the IT sector.

Even if we get to the point in the foreseeable future where we have serious AI capability available, the embracing of it is going to take a lot longer than that - just think how long we've been talking about and predicting the paperless office (40 years?) or the cashless society (25 years?) and we're nowhere near either of those yet.

Very true. Outside of robots in manufacturing, and CAD in engineering, IT has recently brought us very little in terms of productivity gains. Big bumps from Word and Excel on personal computers, but remarkably little boost since then. Just ever increasing complexity in society for very marginal gains. Of course the financial markets might disagree, but then can you really say that a 10% correction in the stock market would only have happened because of AI, and if so I would say why had it not already happened - the impact on China was obvious and the impact on supply chains is obvious and the impact in profits for companies tied to China is obvious, so why now this week?

You might say that Amazon and Facebook and Uber are children of Big Data, and I would say yes true and what has that got to do with AI, and at least Amazon and Uber still sell physical things and employ delivery drivers - Facebook always was a scam and should be shut down.

So I agree, I'm wondering where the Intelligence is in AI. Also I'm reminded of something a friend of mine said about a fellow student at Uni. Aced all his electrical power engineering exams, was "whip smart" - yet didn't know the difference between AC and DC. That's AI. 

Edited by Surfer

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I suspect coronavirus is now going to completely shipwreck the government. Events as politicians always say.

Brexit will just be an irrelevant side show. Frankly probably already best to postpone to allow government to focus on the number 1 issue 100%.

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I suspect the more distractions the better as far as BJ is concerned

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I suspect coronavirus is now going to completely shipwreck the government. Events as politicians always say.

Brexit will just be an irrelevant side show. Frankly probably already best to postpone to allow government to focus on the number 1 issue 100%.

There is a much longer post to be written, but it is Sunday night...

In short, this is not a UK government like any other, in several ways. Its basic guiding idea is that the public is as amoral and uncaring as it is. That is a bit of a gamble.

Edited by PurpleCanary
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3 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

There is a much longer post to be written, but it is Sunday night...

In short, this is not a UK government like any other, in several ways. Its principle is that the public is cniple is that ays.

Huh?

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Brexit Fallacy Number 14,573: Both sides are posturing  over future trade talks.

Nope. One side (the UK) may be, for - as usual - internal consumption. The other side is simply stating the obvious.

 

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UK says no to staying in the EU pandemic early warning system according to telegraph. Taking back control. British diseases for British people. 

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What exactly is the mighty EU doing to help Italy and Greece ? There are thousands of economic migrants heading for Europe, the migrants are cutting through wire to gain entry to Greece. Italy needs urgent financial assistance during this dreadful crisis. The EU does precisely nothing.

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42 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

What exactly is the mighty EU doing to help Italy and Greece ? There are thousands of economic migrants heading for Europe, the migrants are cutting through wire to gain entry to Greece. Italy needs urgent financial assistance during this dreadful crisis. The EU does precisely nothing.

Why is this an EU issue?   Isn't this exactly the type of non-trade issue that leavers would have said is the responsibility of national governments or national governments in alliance.

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1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

Why is this an EU issue?   Isn't this exactly the type of non-trade issue that leavers would have said is the responsibility of national governments or national governments in alliance.

because they are part of the EU family !

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40 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

because they are part of the EU family !

You’re quite obsessed with bashing the EU aren’t you? I thought you’d be happy after we’ve left but turns out you’re a very bitter and twisted gammon. Sad little man.

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I remember Swindon pulling this stunt when Spain had its troubles with Catalonia. They are sovereign nations. The EU has little to do with internal and domestic policy making. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

Why?

because you lot have spent the last 3 years trying to prove how wonderful they are !

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Nobody has ever done that, you ****. We've tried to explain that is better to be a big part of a big community rather than a small part outside. 

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The pound has been on a terrible slide against the Euro and other reserve currencies (the pound no longer really counts as a reserve currency  - Javid) for the last few days.  About $4c last few days!

Answers on back of postage stamp please.

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Posted (edited)

Perhaps somebody could tell me if I'm misinterpreting what the EU wants us to do, but it sounds to me as if they're trying to make us sell stuff to other countries which conform to their standards, even if that country has different standards.

For example, the EU wants to buy some widgets from us & requires them to conform to their standards. Totally reasonable.

Another country approaches us, they're interested in our widgets, but they don't need them made to the same standards, maybe don't need all the clever features, so could we sell them a cheaper version please?

The EU says no. You can only make the same widgets to the same standards.

Is this the case?

 

Edited by ron obvious

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20 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

The pound has been on a terrible slide against the Euro and other reserve currencies (the pound no longer really counts as a reserve currency  - Javid) for the last few days.  About $4c last few days!

Answers on back of postage stamp please.

Oh, oh!!! I think I know this one, thanks to Paul Moy. Isn't it all to to with Brown selling off our gold reserves 20 years ago?!

In other related news the government's own estimate of its Brexit jewel in the crown, a trade deal with the US, is that it will increase GDP by a whopping 0.2 per cent, while its estimate for Brexit overall (other economists have it even worse) is that it will hit GDP by between -4.9 per cent and -7.6 per cent. Absolute genius.

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36 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

The pound has been on a terrible slide against the Euro and other reserve currencies (the pound no longer really counts as a reserve currency  - Javid) for the last few days.  About $4c last few days!

Answers on back of postage stamp please.

This is what they were reporting in 2015 !   https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/12065157/Pound-is-most-overvalued-currency-in-the-world-analysts-claim.html

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

because you lot have spent the last 3 years trying to prove how wonderful they are !

That is a LIE.

You’re borderline obsessed with criticising the EU to prove to yourself and others that ‘Leave’ was the correct option.

Therefore, if Brexit has negative effects on the U.K., you will have to own that too. Although I doubt you ever would, because you have no idea what the hell is going on most of the time 🐭 🧠 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Perhaps somebody could tell me if I'm misinterpreting what the EU wants us to do, but it sounds to me as if they're trying to make us sell stuff to other countries which conform to their standards, even if that country has different standards.

For example, the EU wants to buy some widgets from us & requires them to conform to their standards. Totally reasonable.

Another country approaches us, they're interested in our widgets, but they don't need them made to the same standards, maybe don't need all the clever features, so could we sell them a cheaper version please?

The EU says no. You can only make the same widgets to the same standards.

Is this the case?

 

No - isn't now and never was! If you believe that you've been 'had'

If sell something to the  USA I have to meet FCC rules etc - an FCC declaration and so on.

If I want to sell something into the EU - the 'CE' mark etc.

For China the 'CCC' etc.

You can make whatever you like but it has to meet the local trading rules wherever you sell it! 

Edited by Yellow Fever
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4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

No - isn't now and never was! If you believe that you've been 'had'

If sell something to the  USA I have to meet FCC rules etc - an FCC declaration and so on.

If I want to sell something into the EU - the 'CE' mark etc.

For China the 'CCC' etc.

You can make whatever you like but it has to meet the local trading rules wherever you sell it! 

Very true, @Yellow Fever. Yet another example of the mindset that has the EU acting in supposedly underhand ways while in fact acting in an obvious, open and sensible manner. The trade deal cannot offer the 100 impossible things before breakfast that Johnson promised so it looks like the government is looking for an excuse to collapse the trade talks and blame the EU. The EU's position is simple a level playing field for EU/UK trade, no dumping and for some unknown reason fish.

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35 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Very true, @Yellow Fever. Yet another example of the mindset that has the EU acting in supposedly underhand ways while in fact acting in an obvious, open and sensible manner. The trade deal cannot offer the 100 impossible things before breakfast that Johnson promised so it looks like the government is looking for an excuse to collapse the trade talks and blame the EU. The EU's position is simple a level playing field for EU/UK trade, no dumping and for some unknown reason fish.

Just to add a bit of meat to this discussion - it always amuses me when I ship stuff to China that needs an AC-DC adaptor - like on a mobile or tablet. China is very strict in checking it has the CCC mark - even if it is otherwise as usual 'Made in China'. The $5 adaptor has been known to give me more grief than anything else!

At a more detailed level - many of the larger trading blocks will accept each others declarations / tests as equivalent (in effect they are the same test - or certifications for one can be done at the same time as the other).  If the average Brexiter thinks as a manufacturer we're going to redesign products just for the UK market - as opposed to accepting the existing and much larger EU 'CE' - well I would question their sanity.  

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1 hour ago, ron obvious said:

Perhaps somebody could tell me if I'm misinterpreting what the EU wants us to do, but it sounds to me as if they're trying to make us sell stuff to other countries which conform to their standards, even if that country has different standards.

For example, the EU wants to buy some widgets from us & requires them to conform to their standards. Totally reasonable.

Another country approaches us, they're interested in our widgets, but they don't need them made to the same standards, maybe don't need all the clever features, so could we sell them a cheaper version please?

The EU says no. You can only make the same widgets to the same standards.

Is this the case?

 

No, it's more the other way round - if we wish to buy widgets from a 3rd party, we would have to buy them according to EU standards. Even if we didn't want all the features - and therefore would buy more cheaply - we would have to pay the higher price for the higher specification.

The European courts would decide on any disputes, and of course they would favour the EU.

So you can see that if there was something we excelled at and imported widgets for it, the EU could make up some very stringent standards to screw the UK and we would have absolutely no recourse to challenge it. The EU would have us over a barrel which is why we have to reject this proposal.

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2 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

No, it's more the other way round - if we wish to buy widgets from a 3rd party, we would have to buy them according to EU standards. Even if we didn't want all the features - and therefore would buy more cheaply - we would have to pay the higher price for the higher specification.

The European courts would decide on any disputes, and of course they would favour the EU.

So you can see that if there was something we excelled at and imported widgets for it, the EU could make up some very stringent standards to screw the UK and we would have absolutely no recourse to challenge it. The EU would have us over a barrel which is why we have to reject this proposal.

If you sell something into the EU you will have to meet their standards. If you don't you won't. Same as every other country including our EU friends.

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

No - isn't now and never was! If you believe that you've been 'had'

If sell something to the  USA I have to meet FCC rules etc - an FCC declaration and so on.

If I want to sell something into the EU - the 'CE' mark etc.

For China the 'CCC' etc.

You can make whatever you like but it has to meet the local trading rules wherever you sell it! 

So why do diverging standards matter so much? If we want to sell to the EU we obviously have to comply with their changing regulations. But they appear to be saying we can't make anything that doesn't meet their standards, no matter where we sell it.

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Just now, ron obvious said:

So why do diverging standards matter so much? If we want to sell to the EU we obviously have to comply with their changing regulations. But they appear to be saying we can't make anything that doesn't meet their standards, no matter where we sell it.

Where are you reading this - or more to the point which unhinged unbalanced commentator is saying that? It's rubbish. 

Obviously the the EU don't want us importing the totemic 'chlorinated'  chicken and repackaging it as somehow 'UK' for EU markets. Same as we wouldn't want 'horse meat' relabelled as beef.  

The point is if we are to have a trade deal with the EU - implying we sell stuff to EU without all the usual WTO barriers and non-tariff barriers - there has to be some commonality of agreed standards.

If we want to go on WTO rules then fine - the EU will treat us same as China - seafood - well that could be very very dodgy and so on!

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