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The Positive Brexit Thread

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Considering the government made the decision to help fund Nissan while we were in the EU does it not highlight the fact you are talking utter bollox. Again??

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42 minutes ago, Jools said:

EXCLUSIVE: The EU loses Round One of Brexit Trade Negotiations 👍

Barnier banged to (human) rights in shocking expose of EU hypocrisy

eu_rights.jpg

Barnier lectures UK on European Convention on Human Rights, forgetting EU hasn't signed it 😀


The EU has demanded that any trade deal with the UK be contingent on the UK making a commitment in the new trade treaty to abide by the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR).

On Thursday, the EU’s Chief Negotiator Monsieur Michel Barnier got very exercised about this subject in his long statement in French following the first round of UK-EU trade talks this week.

There’s just one 'leetle, eenzy-weenzy' problem for Monsieur Barnier

Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary

The European Convention on Human Rights

The UK signed the ECHR in 1950 and ratified it the following year

The EU has still not signed nor ratified it

echr_eu_not_ratified.jpg

Above: Details of Council of Europe Treaty No.005 - Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, commonly known as “The European Convention on Human Rights”
[Source: © Council of Europe, as at Sat 07 Mar 2020.] - click to enlarge

Barnier on “EUman rights”

Below is an excerpt from the statement given by the EU’s Chief Negotiator to the world's press on Thursday.

Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary

Michel Barnier's summary of first round trade negotiations

barnier_2017_comofregions.jpg  👈  W⚓

© EU Commission

“Ambitious cooperation requires commitments on both sides with regard to the fundamental rights of individuals.

“However, the United Kingdom has informed us that it does not want to make a formal commitment to continue to apply the European Convention on Human Rights. Nor does it want the European Court of Justice to play its full role in the interpretation of European law - and this is particularly serious when it comes to the fundamental rights of individuals.

“If this position is maintained, this would have an immediate and concrete effect on the ambition of our cooperation, which will remain possible on the basis of international conventions, but which cannot be as ambitious as we wish.”

- Michel Barnier, EU Chief Negotiator – Statement after first round talks, Brussels, 05 Mar 2020

Is it really true the EU has not signed nor ratified the “European Convention on Human Rights”?

Bizarrely, yes it’s true.

At the end of Round One of the trade talks with the UK last week, Michel Barnier lectured the UK at great length about human rights, and the need for the UK to include its commitment to the European Convention on Human Rights in the trade treaty.

Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary

Sadly Mister Barnier seems to have forgotten one very crucial point:

The EU has not signed nor ratified the European Convention on Human Rights

How is this remotely possible?

The EU has a legal obligation – to say nothing of any moral obligation – to sign the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) as a result of the Lisbon Treaty signed by all EU member countries back in December 2007.

For those politicians such as the Rt Hon Kenneth Clarke MP, who boasted of never having read EU Treaties, they could look this obligation up in Article 6 (2) of the Lisbon Treaty.

clarke.jpg

As the EU Parliament said:

“The purpose of the EU’s accession to the ECHR is to contribute to the creation of a single European legal space, achieving a coherent framework of human rights protection throughout Europe.”

Does irony ever get more delicious than this?

In a move of such delicious irony we barely know where to start, it was the European Court of Justice that stepped in and prevented the EU from signing the European Convention on Human Rights. It seems that in 2014 the Justices decided that the ECHR might override their powers under the EU Treaties.

Apparently “accession [to the ECHR] was liable to upset the underlying balance of the EU and undermine the autonomy of EU law.”

Since 2014 the EU Commission – of which Michel Barnier is an employee – has repeatedly said that it considers accession to the ECHR to be a priority. Six years later and the EU is still not even close to either signature or ratification. And this is almost 70 years after the UK signed the Convention.

Does the EU have any chance of lifting itself up to UK standards?

In order to move closer to a point where the EU could say it was lifting itself to UK standards, the EU would have to sign and ratify the Convention. For this to happen, the following will be required:-

  • A renegotiation of the Convention to suit the EU Commission and the EU Court of Justice
  • Unanimous agreement by the EU Council
  • Agreement and ratification by all EU Member States
  • Agreement and ratification by all non-EU states which are party to the Convention
  • Approval by the EU Parliament
  • Approval by the Council of Europe

One of the ‘non-EU states’ we refer to above which would need to agree to any changes will be the UK, of course. To remind readers, the UK has been a signatory of the Convention for almost 70 years, since 1951.

Observations

The question to Monsieur Barnier must therefore surely be this

“When is the EU going to lift its standards to the level of British standards on human rights?”

Tomorrow we will turn the screw a little more. We will show how the EU27 are seriously underperforming the UK in a crucial area of human rights.

As usual we will use the latest figures from the EU itself, released only days ago.

Finally, please speak English, Mister Barnier

Various members of the Brexit Facts4EU.Org team are fluent in European languages other than English. This is one of the reasons we can bring you news from around the EU in the way we do. We enjoy different languages in the same way we love different European cultures. This is one of the reasons we love Europe but hate the EU, with all the EU's attempts at homogenisation and its clear desire to destroy the identity of individual nations.

When it comes to absolute fundamentals such as the UK-EU trade talks, however, we feel it is simply unacceptable for the EU Commission to publish long statements in a minority language such as French. On Thursday the vast majority of Mr Barnier’s statement after the three days of trade talks was in French.

These talks are important. Everyone across the EU needs to understand what is being said. The EU’s common language is English. Please use it, Mister Barnier.

 

[ Sources: EU Commission | Council of Europe | EU Parliament | ] Politicians and journalists can contact us for details, as ever.

Brexit Facts4EU.Org, Sat 07 Mar 2020

 

Accurate representation of Jools’ brain 😀

D441D8D7-F37A-4CA1-A278-47A92A18E922.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

Accurate representation of Jools’ brain 😀

D441D8D7-F37A-4CA1-A278-47A92A18E922.jpeg

Your d**k more like 😀

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6 minutes ago, Jools said:

Your d**k more like 😀

I’ll send you a picture via PM as you seem so interested. Pervert.

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9 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

I’ll send you a picture via PM as you seem so interested. Pervert.

Don't forget to increase your pixel count before posting 🤣

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1 hour ago, Jools said:

Is it really true the EU has not signed nor ratified the “European Convention on Human Rights”?

Bizarrely, yes it’s true.

At the end of Round One of the trade talks with the UK last week, Michel Barnier lectured the UK at great length about human rights, and the need for the UK to include its commitment to the European Convention on Human Rights in the trade treaty

The EU has not signed nor ratified the European Convention on Human Rights

Would that be because its signed by the 47 states in the CoE Jools ? 

The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) is an international human rights treaty between the 47 states that are members of the Council of Europe (CoE) - not to be confused with the European Union.

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1 hour ago, Surfer said:

Would that be because its signed by the 47 states in the CoE Jools ? 

The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) is an international human rights treaty between the 47 states that are members of the Council of Europe (CoE) - not to be confused with the European Union.

And all 27 countries of the EU are members of the CoE. But it is at least heart-warming to see right-wingers discovering the issue of human rights...

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2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Anything the Johnson government will be a negative for you, BF. We understand it goes with the territory. But isn't it wonderful that a British government can choose whether or not it wishes to support an industry? Isn't it wonderful that the decision will be made here in the UK and not in a foreign country by a bunch of foreign politicians that we never elected?

And isn't it wonderful that if you don't like it you get the chance to vote the b#ggers out. Something we couldn't do when we were shackled to the EU?

Not at all, should a Johnson government have a positive impact that would be great. Just that there is no evidence to date they have a clue how to meet the challenges the country faces and they have achieved the square root of **** all so far.

As for your your "isn't it wonderful" tripe, that the decision will be made here in the UK , in case you haven't noticed the decision was made by an Indian working for a French/Japanese company. Nissan made demands and the government had the choice of folding or watching Nissan up sticks and leave. Of course the UK government folded, they are now so weak they have no choice. 

Much the same as with the Withdrawal agreement, the EU demanded NI remained and Johnson was left with a decision of No Deal or folding. Of course Johnson sold the DUP down the river and folded, the UK is so weak it has no choice. Unless you are a superpower or pool sovereignity in a large bloc a country is too weak to control multinational corporations, get good terms in trade deals or influence world events. But in your world that is ok because we can vote out one powerless patsy and replace him with another powerless patsy.

Answer me these, where is the great Infrastructure & Environment Plan scheduled to be the keystone of the great "levelling up" budget next week. Did Javid have it in his back pocket when he left, or has it collapsed in chaos? When do you think it will emerge? Why is it late? Why are two budgets required this year? Is that a sign of a government that knows what it is doing?

But don't bother if you are going to parrot more puffery from the government's unelected spokesman?

 

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On 07/03/2020 at 18:23, BigFish said:

Not at all, should a Johnson government have a positive impact that would be great. Just that there is no evidence to date they have a clue how to meet the challenges the country faces and they have achieved the square root of **** all so far.

As for your your "isn't it wonderful" tripe, that the decision will be made here in the UK , in case you haven't noticed the decision was made by an Indian working for a French/Japanese company. Nissan made demands and the government had the choice of folding or watching Nissan up sticks and leave. Of course the UK government folded, they are now so weak they have no choice. 

Much the same as with the Withdrawal agreement, the EU demanded NI remained and Johnson was left with a decision of No Deal or folding. Of course Johnson sold the DUP down the river and folded, the UK is so weak it has no choice. Unless you are a superpower or pool sovereignity in a large bloc a country is too weak to control multinational corporations, get good terms in trade deals or influence world events. But in your world that is ok because we can vote out one powerless patsy and replace him with another powerless patsy.

Answer me these, where is the great Infrastructure & Environment Plan scheduled to be the keystone of the great "levelling up" budget next week. Did Javid have it in his back pocket when he left, or has it collapsed in chaos? When do you think it will emerge? Why is it late? Why are two budgets required this year? Is that a sign of a government that knows what it is doing?

But don't bother if you are going to parrot more puffery from the government's unelected spokesman?

 

 
All of that is true. But will Johnson fold like a road map over the trade talks? Despite her small majority May could have faced down the ERG at the outset, but caved into them, by ruling out staying in the single market and a customs' union, paving the way for a hard Brexit, because she was an incompetent coward.

Johnson has such a substantial majority, and so much political capital in the Tory party, that he could pivot towards a softer Brexit if he wished. But even allowing for some very public grandstanding the signs are he is happy to have as hard a Brexit as May's would have been, and is quite prepared for a no-deal.

The chances of which are higher than ever before, for two reasons. By Johnson (and his chief 'negotiator') seeming to prioritise sovereignty absolutely over economics he is potentially locking himself, by accident or design, into a no-deal, or something not far short of it.

Added to which there is the threat to renege on promises made on alignment in the political declaration and the threat to in effect scrap the legally binding Withdrawal Agreement by refusing to carry out checks on goods from Britain to Northern Ireland. Without a solution I assume the EU would then have to create a hard border between NI and Eire.
 
I doubt the EU needed reminding that Johnson is a Frequent Liar who cannot be trusted to keep to his word on anything, even if it seems to be legally watertight, but Merkel, Macron, Barnier et al will make doubly sure they are not taken for fools the way Johnson's employers and wives have been. They will accept a no-deal rather than a deal on which Johnson could then renege.
 
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With our blitz spirit and sense of togetherness the British will be able to cope with a no deal brexit. 🤣

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1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

They will accept a no-deal rather than a deal on which Johnson could then renege.

Well at least @paul moy will be happy. For the rest of us a chaotic exit combined with a Corvid-19 inspired recession doesn't really bare thinking about.

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Posted (edited)

I can’t see how negotiations  are going to be able to continue over the forthcoming months, the virus is  going to become the main priority for everyone.

Edited by Van wink

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

I can’t see how negotiations  are going to be able to continue over the forthcoming months, the virus is  going to become the main priority for everyone.

And there is Johnson's excuse.........no extension, no agreement, crash out no deal disaster and it was all the fault of a virus

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48 minutes ago, BigFish said:

And there is Johnson's excuse.........no extension, no agreement, crash out no deal disaster and it was all the fault of a virus

Possibly, he may be inclined to crash out during what is likely to be a deepening world recession, somehow I doubt he will.

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Posted (edited)
On 09/03/2020 at 10:42, Herman said:

With our blitz spirit and sense of togetherness the British will be able to cope with a no deal brexit. 🤣

May be they will and may be they won't but treating the awful times of the nightly blitz, during which many people died or had their lives ruined and the British people's ability to cope with that, produce, re-arm and fight back effectively and at great loss as a reason for humour (with a childish smiley thrown) is puerile to the extreme.

Still as long as it fits your agenda.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

May be they will and may be they won't but treating the awful times of the nightly blitz, during which many people died or had their lives ruined and the British people's ability to cope with that, produce, re-arm and fight back effectively and at great loss as a reason for humour (with a childish smiley thrown) is puerile to the extreme.

Still as long as it fits your agenda.

Your complaint would have been better directed at those several leading Leave campaigners, and not just that idiot Mark Francois, who started it all by invoking the supposed British wartime spirit of the Blitz and D-Day in their argument for Brexit, and how it could be managed, along with the usual puerile anti-Teutonic slurs you will hear from English football supprters whenever they are playing a German team. Herman was justifiably satirising those imbecilic and irrelevant invocations.

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Posted (edited)

My complaint was well directed as far as I'm concerned.

If that's satire then the moon's made of blue cheese.

Satire? Agenda ridden piffle.

Attempting to make light of hard times for many people just to make a point.#

Not necessary.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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Posted (edited)

You **** me off.

At least you didn't resort to another little smiley, as you did with your attempt at satire. before hurling your latest insult.

"You're an idiot."

Oh dear. Very grown up.

 

People who need resort to insults in a debate etc. etc. You know the rest  ...or at least you should by now.

 

Edited by BroadstairsR
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Wind your neck in son. It was clearly taking the mick out of the clowns that sold us no deal brexit as being easy and nothing to fear when in reality, and the **** hits the fan, we are clearly not in the least bit prepared or rational. 

😀🤣

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Posted (edited)

Baby. The forum's Mr. Smiley.How crass is that?

Nothing is black and white in this issue.

 

I am probably as concerned as you about some of the dangers of Brexit but I weighed it up carefully and my dislike  of Brussels, it's corrupt (no expense sheets necessary really, just fill them in and you get the money,) undemocratic,wasteful and federalist mind-set set up my particular agenda. I have had some familiarity with it all .... briefly.It's a gravy train.

Brexit should have been a catalyst for change for that institution. Instead they dug in and talk of "punishing Britain" was even bandied around. 

Now it seems to be creaking a bit through shortage of funds. Perhaps the UK will suffer too but I'm prepared to risk it.

We do have a moral obligation to pay something to them because apparently it has built up as many as 800,000 now qualifying for a pension. Much of that when we were members.

After that then that's it.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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Oh dear. Two hundred years after Wellington saved Brussels at Waterloo, the Belgium’s have proven to be more than a match for his worthy successors attempt to reform it’s budget. 
 

OK. Like they tried. Or is the alternative history that the successors of the East India Company wanted to have a free hand to exploit the UK? 
 

I guess we will find out eh? 

 

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16 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Oh dear. Two hundred years after Wellington saved Brussels at Waterloo, the Belgium’s have proven to be more than a match for his worthy successors attempt to reform it’s budget. 
 

OK. Like they tried. Or is the alternative history that the successors of the East India Company wanted to have a free hand to exploit the UK? 
 

I guess we will find out eh? 

 

Actually it was Blucher, a German (well, Prussian) who saved Wellington...

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45 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Actually it was Blucher, a German (well, Prussian) who saved Wellington...

We can’t forget William of Orange was a key ally. Brussels was a Dutch city at the time too. But now it’s majority French speaking, so I guess we can blame the frogs for Waterloo AND Brexit. 🤣

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3 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

You **** me off.

At least you didn't resort to another little smiley, as you did with your attempt at satire. before hurling your latest insult.

"You're an idiot."

Oh dear. Very grown up.

 

People who need resort to insults in a debate etc. etc. You know the rest  ...or at least you should by now.

 

Pretty sure you called someone a w anker on another thread 🤦🏻‍♂️🤣

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Posted (edited)

Pretty sure I didn't.

 

Not my style.I am not interested enough in either the personnel or politics of this forum to stoop so low.

Please don't make things up.

(I noticed it was another rib tickler for the forum's Mr. Smiley.Glad he;s happy at least.)

Edited by BroadstairsR

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Chris Grayling looks likely to be the new chair of the Intelligence committee.

Yet more evidence Johnson is deliberately trashing the UK?

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Ex Brexit party MEP Rupert Lowe:

EU countries closing their borders because of the virus is proof that EU countries want more control back over their borders from the EU. 

Utter plum. 

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