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thebigfeller

There's three main problems at Norwich City

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[quote user="westcoastcanary"] Really? My question is: "What is the point of Man City et. al. under their owners?" [/quote]
It seems that Man City CEO Garry Cook read your question on here and answered it quite concisely in his penultimate paragraph of his interview with the BBC -
"You want to take the history and heritage of 100 years, keep it, cherish

it and hold on to it. But you also want to look forward and make change

with the aim of being successful and sustainable over the long term"

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[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]
It seems that Man City CEO Garry Cook read your question on here and answered it quite concisely in his penultimate paragraph of his interview with the BBC -
"You want to take the history and heritage of 100 years, keep it, cherish

it and hold on to it. But you also want to look forward and make change

with the aim of being successful and sustainable over the long term"
[/quote]
Cracking answer I grant you but in what tangible ways have they

"kept, cherished and held on to the history and heritage of 100 years"?
I am afraid I cannot think of any.
The

answer above clearly requires some kind of balancing act between the

heritage and the future, and I just cannot see that is what has happened

at all at Man City.

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[quote user="Creative Midfielder"]
[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]
It seems that Man City CEO Garry Cook read your question on here and answered it quite concisely in his penultimate paragraph of his interview with the BBC -
"You want to take the history and heritage of 100 years, keep it, cherish

it and hold on to it. But you also want to look forward and make change

with the aim of being successful and sustainable over the long term"
[/quote]
Cracking answer I grant you but in what tangible ways have they

"kept, cherished and held on to the history and heritage of 100 years"?
I am afraid I cannot think of any.
The

answer above clearly requires some kind of balancing act between the

heritage and the future, and I just cannot see that is what has happened

at all at Man City.
[/quote]
I suppose that there is an element of truth to what you say, inasmuch as City are no longer a team that fails regularly and see season after season languashing at the bottom of the table, lurching from relegation to promotion over and over, as they did for much of their history. But surely that was what the owners wished to change when they bought the club?
They still maintain their roots in the local community of Manchester though. They fund charitable organisations acrross the city. Many of their youth players are sourced from the local area. They have regenerated derilict land to create open green areas around the stadium. They have even made moves to allow fans to meet four times a year with senior club officials to discuss matters that affect the local community.
I found all of this out by doing a search on the internet which took less than 20 minute. So when you say you can''t think of any ways that that the owners have tried to honour City''s heritage, with respect, I would have to ask you how long did you spend thinking?

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make change with the aim of being successful and sustainable over the long term

I suspect that is part of the script.

However, I would assume that any true Man City supporter, used to living in the shadow, very long shadows at one time, of their nearest rival, will be loving every minute at the moment. But I can envisage a time when even a slight hiccup becomes unacceptable to supporters.

Success is measured in trophies for clubs at the top and I doubt Man City would have won any if it wasn''t for the current owners.

They aren''t the first to buy success, Blackburn being the first I suppose, Fulham with AlFayed joined in shortly after, but they are the most successful because they have spent, but also invested, more than any other club.

I used to have a problem with this but they are so far entrenched that there is no way of matching what is happening at Man City but others as well so why worry about it.

Thank goodness for club''s like ours. Arguments may rage about D&M, DF etc but that is only natural and our success is earned not bought.

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I''m not sure we''d be likely to get an owner like man city have got. I''m certain that''s not the choice we should realistically be thinking about . On the previous page I listed 18 owners I wouldn''t want. If I could list 20 I would want that would mean the odds were at least in favour of me being happy.

However we wouldn''t really know until it happens and we have a new owner.

I know many people who have wanted new owners for 10 years or more. They are more likely to be happy with just anyone. Some judge owners suitability simply by their wealth. For me that''s never a good yardstick.

Still a good thread.

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[quote user="thebigfeller"]
(In ascending order of importance):
3. The manager. He''s never convinced; he doesn''t know his best team or best formation. What was the point of going three at the back to tighten things up last season, only to throw this straight out and go back to being so soft it''s unbelievable, with a defence like a sieve? That means the entirety of last season was wasted. It must confuse the players hugely. It certainly baffles me.
2. The players. When football fans search around for someone easy to blame, it suits them to overrate the playing squad, because it gives them hope of better things under a different manager. I don''t share that hope. This squad is the epitome of mediocrity. I look at much of it and think "who are these people?" Without Maddison, we''d have been in massive trouble last season. Well, we''re without him now... and sliding. Pritchard, Murphy and Gunn have gone too, and none of them have been replaced with better or equivalent players.
That''s a comment on Webber''s poor recruitment - but it''s not all his fault either. Webber, the squad, and Farke are all symptoms of a much more fundamental problem:
1. The board. The poorest owners in the Championship. A league which continues to change rapidly. Unlike in the past - think of the late 90s, when clubs like Swindon, Grimsby, Port Vale, Tranmere, Stockport, Crewe or Bury could all do perfectly fine at this level on gates of much less than 10,000 - there''s really only one club in this season''s Championship which doesn''t naturally ''belong'' here: Rotherham. And they have backing: like Barnsley in the division below.
It probably needs re-emphasising just what a miraculous job Messrs Lambert, McNally and Bowkett did in getting us out of this league and, however briefly, establishing us in the Prem on such a low wage bill. In 2010/11, along with Derby, we were one of only two clubs in the whole division who maintained a wages/turnover ratio of below 60%. Most others were at a minimum 90%; many were well into three figures.
But miracles don''t happen twice. Huddersfield, who many will point to, will almost certainly go back down this season and slide back into anonymity - but even they, built sustainably, have had substantial cash injections from their owner along the way. Burnley, a real model club at present, might struggle this year... and actually sailed very close to the wind before going back up and staying there. Almost everyone else are funded beyond their natural means.
But our owners can''t do that. So we start each season, or under any new manager, with one hand tied behind our backs. It''s precisely those constraints which led Lambert to leave; he knew we couldn''t sustain it forever. At Brighton, meanwhile, Hughton prospers because he has real backing - from an owner with deep pockets who knows that the only way to profit in English football is, one day, to sell the club on having dramatically improved it through his investment.
Yet are Brighton not a community-oriented club? Are Watford? Are Crystal Palace? Have any of them ''sold their soul'' - or just got real amid the most competitive football club structure in the world? But getting real is what our old, patrician owners steadfastly refuse to do.
In a world in which little Barnsley can be bought by foreign owners, it is not even in the realms of plausibility that nobody with the means required is interested in Norwich. 25,000 gates each home game; an incredibly loyal support built up since the Centenary Season; passionate, yet understanding, remarkably so at times; just two hours from London in a city which has come up in the world over the last 20 years; spent four years out of five in the Premier League this decade... and no-one''s interested? Do me a favour.
The problem is the owners have no interest in selling us. They''re hamstringing us; more than that, they''re overseeing close to inevitable decline. English football isn''t going to suddenly become less competitive: it''s uniquely popular globally, and more and more plutocrats and consortia want a piece of that action. The bubble isn''t going to burst - but the way things are going, NCFC will.
Personally, I don''t think we''ll go down this season. I think we have a better squad than at least eight other clubs. But we''re heading inexorably downwards. On the pitch, we may be in crisis in a matter of weeks: there''s major shades of Peter Grant''s final month or so here in how things are looking. But off the pitch is where the real problems lie. This ''model'' isn''t working and was never likely to work; and in many ways, all it amounts to is an arse-covering exercise. For a pair of joint majority shareholders who cannot compete in a footballing world which has changed out of all recognition since they first became involved.
They have to sell the club. And they have to go. If they don''t, we''ll be back in League 1 in no time... and highly unlikely to get as lucky again.
[/quote]
I remember when we dropped to League 1 some said it was the best thing that could have happened to the club, in hindsight were the Lambert years the Worst thing that could have happened?
they made some fans think we were better thn we were, an attitude which is still prevelant today. It led to a system the board still cling to in that bargain buys and freebies will bring success if you just keep at it.
4 or 5 years of pottering around in the championship would have opened some eyes. now it''s simply a case of the owners never having to take a risk because it''s worked before.
Webber is a chancer who got lucky at Huddersfield, Wagner played in the bundesliga and international football before becoming a managerial unknown at Dortmund reserves... Farke played amateur Football and was merely a coach for Wagner''s experience. A man who played against and with some of the worlds best had no time for a back room boy when he moved to Huddersfield.
Huddersfield owner, Dean Hoyle, is the founder of Card Factory, a company he sold for £350 million to invest into his beloved boy hood team... Money the Smiths could never dream of having... a committed owner and a driven manager with vast Knowledge of his own league meant Webber could just sit in his office all day drinking tea... talking the talk whilst others walked the walk.
Stuart Webber once called Huddersfield "A League 1 club in the championship, no disrespect but thats what is" as he claimed there was no infrastructure - https://www.examiner.co.uk/sport/football/news/stuart-webber-slams-huddersfield-town-12948282
Constant Bull Sh!t after Constant Bullsh!t since day 1 at the club.. there''s no international top level manager to bale him out.. no multi millionaire business owner to splash the cash and cover him.
This is a season of sleep walking.. there are people on a certain facebook group who beleive we can reach the playoffs with the squad we have... I''d wager this is a worse team than under Roeder, we still had a Dublin, Huckerby and a bit of.. something.. even if it was never enough.
Newphew Tom will sell with us in league 1 as he''ll crack under the pressure.
it will be too late by then.

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I''m not sure we''d be likely to get an owner like man city have got. I''m certain that''s not the choice we should realistically be thinking about . On the previous page I listed 18 owners I wouldn''t want. If I could list 20 I would want that would mean the odds were at least in favour of me being happy.

Surprised you didn’t list Nephews Tom on that list? He literally brings nothing to the table as a potential owner of a semi pro football club let alone a club like us. Standing on his own two feet Thetford Town wouldn’t want him. But amazingly the pot less nobody doesn’t make the list?

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On 26/08/2018 at 20:19, nutty nigel said:

The ones that really struggle are those that have "gone for it" and failed.

 
And yet despite this - despite all the horror stories we''re always told, the "be careful what you wish for" view which lies behind that - how many ''big clubs'' are currently operating well below where they naturally should be? One. Sunderland, two levels below their natural level, and extremely likely to bounce back into the Championship at the first time of asking.
 
The only other club below the Championship who naturally belong at this level are Portsmouth: who are also turning it around and likely to return either this season or next. And these are both extreme cases. Even Leeds have finally got it together.
 
Meaning that even the scare stories so often trotted out really don''t hold much water. It''s rather like someone staying in an increasingly bland, unsatisfying relationship for fear of meeting an axe murderer if they move on. Fear of worst case scenarios is not a sensible way of living life.

 
How are you Shaun?
 
As Norwich fans we only notice the clubs who are enjoying temporary success above us and forget about the ones that drop by the way side. We met in 2009 you said we were going to hell in a handcart under the current owners. The bottom half of the PL at that time was Wigan, Stoke, Bolton, Portsmouth, Blackburn, Sunderland, Hull, Middlesboro, Newcastle, WBA.
 
Since then the following clubs have been promoted to the PL - Birmingham, Burnley, Wolves, Newcastle, WBA, Blackpool, QPR, Norwich, Swansea, Reading, Southampton, West Ham, Cardiff, Hull, Palace, Leicester, Burnley again, QPR again, Bournemouth, Watford, Norwich again, Middlesboro, Burnley again, Hull again, Newcastle again, Brighton, Huddersfield, Wolves again, Cardiff again and Fulham.
 
It''s this churn that makes the Championship a decent league where everyone has a chance to get top the so-called promised land. Also, as you can see rather than going to hell in a handcart over the next 10 years we more than held our own in this merry go round.
 
Add to that Derby County, Sheffield Utd, Ipswich, Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Nottingham Forest and Coventry who didn''t even get one season on the merry go round it becomes obvious that claims of where clubs should be based on any historical parameters are a load of old bunkum.
 
We will probably spend time away from the PL now. But I have no doubt we will return at some point. Just as all those others whose fans feel just as entitled. Some even more so. Unfortunately only 17 of them remain in the PL each and every season. 

I haven't changed my view even a smidgen ...

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40 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Is this the thread where Tilly bet me a tenner Villa would finish above us? 

No.

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1 hour ago, Duncan Edwards said:

Someone OUT!!!!

Must be a slow day at work Duncan as i understand you have been tweeting this on Twatter aiming it at certain Pink Un bashers. 😉

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Just now, TIL 1010 said:

Must be a slow day at work Duncan as i understand you have been tweeting this on Twatter aiming it at certain Pink Un bashers. 😉

I’ve had a day off mate!! Funny though isn’t it? Thought you didn’t have a Twitter account? Have you been fibbing all this time....? 

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After having a read through all I have to say is how nice it is to be only one and a half positions away from our average of the last fifty years. Wonderful consistency😀

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25 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I’ve had a day off mate!! Funny though isn’t it? Thought you didn’t have a Twitter account? Have you been fibbing all this time....? 

No Twatter account but i know people who have.

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14 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

No Twatter account but i know people who have.

You should cut out the middle man and get involved!! I’m sure I’ve seen you on Twitter though? 

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41 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

No.

Not this one?

Maybe this is the one where Mikey-Big-Bollox was waving his £200 around?

Anyone seen him BTW?

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36 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Not this one?

Maybe this is the one where Mikey-Big-Bollox was waving his £200 around?

Anyone seen him BTW?

Very quiet when I went through Bin Town today.

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*munches popcorn*

I believe I said I thought we'd finish around 8th, but that was assuming Harry Wilson +1 were coming in. Pretty incredible to be top of the league starting with 6 players we didn't pay a fee for (4 free transfers and 2 academy products)

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I would just like to point out that over the last several months I had scrupulously resisted the temptation to bump this thread back up, despite having at least as much justification as anyone...😎

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32 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I would just like to point out that over the last several months I had scrupulously resisted the temptation to bump this thread back up, despite having at least as much justification as anyone...😎

My apologies. 

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7 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I imagine those that have will be along to hold their hands up at any moment...

That'll be when hell freezes over!

Some of the ranting keyboard warriors on here need to take a deep breath before blasting away.

Some of the twaddle that was spouted - some by people giving the appearance of a very authoritative rationale - is toe-curlingly embarrassing.

What was it someone posted in response to the op statement "there's 3 main problems at Norwich City":

Some combination of Delia, the board, DF and SW! :classic_rolleyes:

Since August of last year when this post was introduced - there were predictions of slipping into League 1, fighting at the bottom end of the league etc etc. What has ACTUALLY happened in the league since then - we've lost 3 games, drawn 8 games and won 18 games - amassing some 62 points, scoring 60 goals and conceding 33. For sheer entertainment value, that is an average of 3 goals a game (and averaging more than 2 points a game). No wonder we are top of the league (at the time of typing).

Now I could be wrong, but I somehow can't see some of the more obdurate posters, especially those that religiously keep campaigning for S&J to leave, coming back to this post and, as Duncan says, "holds their hands up".

... and, Kudos to those whose posts kept the faith in the DF/SW project. 👍

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10 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

You used to bump your own thread Beardo. Until you stopped....

That's a cracking euphemism if ever I heard one NN!😮

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