The defence is not the problem...

[Petriix 3,219]

...it''s the system and the mentality.It''s great that we''ve signed another CB. Hopefully he will improve the team by making fewer mistakes and win a few more balls than whoever he replaces. However, it would be extremely naive to assume that better defenders will fix our problems. Yes, there have been some individual errors and a number of individual battles lost which have led to conceding goals, but the issue runs much deeper.In my opinion we simply try to play too high up the pitch - especially away from home, where the opposition are likely to be less cautious. It doesn''t matter how good your defenders are, if they are frequently exposed to situations where they are battling one on one with an attacker (be it contesting for a high long ball, a fullback chasing a speedy winger or defending a cross into the box), they will lose these battles from time to time and we will concede goals.I don''t think the entire system is wrong. I am enjoying the new philosophy and I think there are promising signs in terms of how creative we are with the ball. Sometimes all it takes is a bit of luck with how the ball drops or just taking a few more of your chances. But I think things need a bit of a tweak.If you want to keep clean sheets then you need to be disciplined and keep men behind the ball. As we saw in the two contrasting home games against Sunderland and QPR, the victorious team played deeper and made themselves difficult to break down. It is far easier to score against a team who play too high. Most of the goals we concede come from when we get hit on the break or hopeful long balls.Last season we actually did ok at home (third best in the league), but we suffered away. We seemed to have an arrogant belief that we were too good for the championship and that we should be able to dominate any team. What often happened was that we overcommitted in attack, lost the ball then conceded to a swift counter. It''s like we were trying to play like the home team wherever we were. We seem to have started this season in exactly the same way.The defence need more protection from the midfield. A fullback should not be left one on one with a winger all the time. The centre-backs should not be left defending every cross one v one against the opposition strikers. We need to set ourselves up with a bit more cover - especially away from home. Then maybe we could allow teams to have a bit more of the ball in front of us, encouraging them to overcommit and creating some space in behind them before hitting them on the break.Regardless of how the system is meant to work, winning requires discipline and hard work. The players should have enough ability. Now they need to step up and show the required mentality and application.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,423]

2 words currently at the heart of our problems: zonal marking.

[Move Klose 303]

Well not really. Zonal marking is only a problem when marking a set play. What''s the excuse for the all the goals that aren''t coming from set pieces.

[Jim Smith 2,610]

I disagree. It''s not the system (unless you mean zonal marking) it''s the full backs failing to prevent crosses and the centre backs not cutting them out. That primarily comes down to the quality of the players.

The number of chances the opposition have actually been creating is quite low which suggests the system is working ok, they''ve just been scoring from most of them.

[Guest]

Big problems we''ve had; last season incredibly susceptible to the counter attack (particularly from corners), also this season, unable to stop the ball coming into the box.

Not just the fault of the back four perhaps.

[kingsway 101]

At last someone that sees beyond the defence (and Russell Martin) being all at fault!

The lack of midfield protection for the defence on Saturday was shocking to say the least!

Doesn''t matter how good your defenders are, if they are constantly getting pummeled eventually something will give. Its the same with a goalie, if the backline is not protecting the keeper enough then eventually goals will be conceived!

Although it won''t help bringing in a better standard centreback!

[king canary 8,758]

It is kind of both. The system has not exactly helped with not much cover from midfield but the defenders themselves are often getting the basics wrong. Radio Norfolk kept mentioning on Saturday that runners were not being tracked and men were being left free as evidenced by the first goal- somehow Franke was left with both strikers to deal with, left one to try and win the header and when he didn''t there was nobody covering the other man. It''s poor from Franke to not win the header and from whoever should have been with Morison in the first place that meant Franke was dealing with both players.

[kingsway 101]

Won''t hurt! - is what I meant!

[Move Klose 303]

It''s knowing when to put a Tettey like character into the lineup next to Reed.

Going to a place like Millwall with Reed, Maddison, Hoolahan, Vrancic, Murphy in front of the back 4 and you are asking for trouble.

Going to Millwall who play a lot of high balls up to Morison and picking Martin overy Zimmermann isn''t wise either.

[Branston Pickle 4,150]

It''s the whole thing - ex-players and pundits were at pains to say it would take time to bed in. Huddersfield didn''t ''get'' it for a while and and there were some rather bad results along the way.

The thing is, it seems that although our supporters seemed to take in the ''give it time'' mantra, a lot seem incapable of doing so.

[Dr Greenthumb 794]

[quote user="king canary"]It is kind of both. The system has not exactly helped with not much cover from midfield but the defenders themselves are often getting the basics wrong. Radio Norfolk kept mentioning on Saturday that runners were not being tracked and men were being left free as evidenced by the first goal- somehow Franke was left with both strikers to deal with, left one to try and win the header and when he didn''t there was nobody covering the other man. It''s poor from Franke to not win the header and from whoever should have been with Morison in the first place that meant Franke was dealing with both players.

[/quote]

Not even a personal thing, but it was Martin, watch the build up to the goal, even from the initial set piece, he was waving hands around not marking anyone, such a bad centre back

[norfolkngood 1,174]

stopping the supply is our problem then dealing with it if it happens

like others have said you stop the crosses you stop the panic after the cross

you close the defenders midfielders down quicker they pass quicker so more passes go astray given us back the ball

pressing / fitness / speed is key to all those something we have lacked

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,462]

The point is sound and I would argue fairly incontrovertible.

Very few sides could play with the following kinds of players in a starting line up without some compromise defensively, physically, structurally and even mentally versus ''different'' kinds of Championship players (say Bradley Johnson even):

Maddison, Hoolahan, Murphy, even Vrancic (as per Saturday)

To imagine that players with such clear characteristics, physicality and playing tendencies would not expose the defence would be a leap of cavalier faith.

That all these players are good, exciting, talented and worth a place in the side (Vrancic TBC) is accepted, though I cannot imagine an Italian (or say Steve Bruce) side playing more than 2 of them and quite possibly only 1 plus a striker.

Once Pritchard returns it only serves to underline our odd recruitment policy of huge investment in limited areas of the field, few of which can or should play in any single match.

Parma

[Van wink 2,994]

"Once Pritchard returns it only serves to underline our odd recruitment policy of huge investment in limited areas of the field, few of which can or should play in any single match. "

Couldn''t agree more.

We have totally unbalanced the squad with depth and quality in some areas and bargain basement gambles in others.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Pritchard does defend better than the others mentioned though. Its easy to forget defence starts at the front and on Saturday we started with too many players who are not too good at defending.

[Tetteys Jig 851]

I like him but I was completely bemused when we bought pritchard. it was clear that money should have been used further back the pitch when we had jacob, josh, wes, howson, naismith, dorrans and maddison all capable of doing a good job in attacking mid.

[ZLF 335]

defence & zonal marking are not the problem.

Its about the way players deliver the tactic, how well they effortlessly cover each other and understand the role each plays in how the team performs. For me I see nothing to say that the individual players are not good enough, just that they need to embed the new methods - you dont do that by reverting to past failed method at the earliest opportunity - all that does is seed more doubt.

As far as the attacking players are concerned we are disproportionately well stocked (and have spent too much of the limited funds available) but for me the bigger challenge is ensuring that they ALL embrace their defensive duties when they lose the ball and physically battle to protect the back 5/6 and win in back.

Revert to the back 3, pragmatically use two deep cms to help protect the goal and allow the defenders to adapt to each other and the new system.

It will take time (i know, patience pah) but there are signs there