Mbokani & Bamford

[Samwam27 535]

Don''t recall reading this anywhere else, but just a tad concerned that we haven''t been scoring goals (imo Mbokani needs to be dropped and we let Jerome, last seen tearing up the Man U defense) and we''re now playing with two "loan" players up front.

I''m just a little concerned whether they''ll be up for the fight with neither likely to be hear next season whether we stay up or go down.

Mbokani has had some 20+ games and scored 4 goals. Is he our best hope. In contrast, Redmond, who''s had little playing time, and many on here think he''s blowing hot and cold, has scored the same! Yes we''re leaking goals, but is Mbokani the answer. He''s had plenty of chances, and isn''t putting them away. Will Bamford help, or be up for the fight?

If not we''re on a hiding to nothing as we can''t bring anyone else in, and have very little in reserve (as Laffs is either likely to leave or just doesn''t impress AN) and that leaves Mbokani (yes wish he would come good) & Jerome

Can''t help thinking we''ve missed a major trick in Afobe, and Gayle would have been quick and run his socks off.

Time will tell. Anyone agree/disagree?

[E.L.F. 0]

Disagree, Mbokani is a bull and just what is needed up front. Holds the ball up well and seems to be catching on to the style of the league. Agree that his goal tally is a bit low but I could see him with over 10 if AN would place his best XI. Naisey should help in behind with Brady on the left and IMO Voo on the right. Can''t seem to figure out who are the two DM to shore up the back line but Tettey / Howson seem the best pair. Oye to the back four but Ruddy back in to hopefully organise and settle them. Lots of options on the bench for plan B.

For some reason I think things will work out during the run in.

[Yellow Green Army 243]

Well said E.L.F. Agree totally. Mbokani has been a beast for us since his arrival and gets nowhere near the credit he deserves.

The problem is that we are not supporting him enough and not getting bodies closer to him. We need to get somebody like Naismith/Redmond staying closer to him and making those run in behind the defence anticipating the flick ons, through balls. He wins his fair share of balls played up to him and holds it up superbly. We just need to be closer to him otherwise he becomes to isolated.

Will be a key player in the run in.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Mbokani did pretty well against Villa, shame he didn''t score early on, we had a few chances. Would probably have gone on to win and then AN wouldn''t be being sacked after the West Ham game, fine margins indeed.

[BroadstairsR 2,231]

In the first half against Villa Mbokani was the stand out player and was slightly unlucky on a couple of occasions.

May be we should now treat this season as the equivalent of that sixtieth minute of a game when you are one goal down and bring more strikers on ie. both Mbokani and Bamford to start, with Redmond and Brady wide with the defence protected by two defensive mid-fielders .... clearly Tettey when available and O''Neill. What''s gone wrong with Mulumbu? I rated him at the Albion, in pre-season he was outstanding, then one injury and he''s a different player. He did show some signs of a revival at Villa, some at least, so let''s hope he is back at his best soon.

Two up front anybody?

[AJ 1,235]

I agree elf, I think Mbokani is very underrated by a lot of fans. Someone pointed out on here the other day that as well as scoring some good goals from some pretty average service, he holds the ball up well and you rarely see him giving it away. Again I agree a consistent 11 would help massively, look at Leicester! Our goal tally is low but that''s why we are where we are. Naismith will help a lot in that area though I would hope!

[ron obvious 1,517]

Three up front. Well actually Mbokani supported by Wes & Naismith, the latter often running beyond. Bamford to replace any of the above if conditions suit - or even as an addition! Oh, & Cameron if we''re really going for it.

[E.L.F. 0]

Ron, I know some won''t like this but I don''t think Wes should be anywhere near the starting XI. Yes he''s fun to watch on his day but he''s too lightweight, hits the floor too often, gives the ball away far too much and can only really play one position, in behind the striker.. He seems to have carried on with Holt''s famous fall downs, which incidently, got noticed pretty quick in the PL and often ignored by the ref. He''s clearly not the player to play just behind Mbokani as that spot is now Naismiths.

[norfolkngood 1,097]

Mbokani

may well be the problem due to him being the big bloke upfront we are just lumping it to him to hold up and chase

if you look at the league now its more pacey strikers who don''t want to hold it up they want it through the defence to run on to

I would play Jerome or bamford to make the rest of the team play football instead of the punt to mbokani then we all rush forward

[E.L.F. 0]

Wouldn''t that be AN as the problem rather than Mbokani?

[hogesar 9,818]

I think we miss Jerome personally, but I understand why some prefer Mbokani.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

In Mbokani I see a player that can hold it up and is very physical. However, he lacks genuine pace and is movement is questionable. To be fair I''d doubt he''d get into any other Prem side.I prefer Jerome. His finishing isn''t brilliant, but his pace causes more problems than Mbokani and he stretches teams more.I thought Bamford did OK on Saturday, he seems to me the best natural finisher at the club and his movement and general intelligence is decent. Personally I''d start him on Saturday and play our best ball players. I think we''ve got the ability to play some good stuff on the ground.

[City 2nd 191]

E.L.F. wrote the following post at 2016-02-09 3:37 AM:

Disagree, Mbokani is a bull and just what is needed up front. Holds the ball up well and seems to be catching on to the style of the league.......

How is Mbokani what we need. As you say, a bull up front, yet totally devoid of the class and skill required at premier league level as a striker. He is slow, has no pace, and struggles positionaly in the English game. Unless we are going to continue with AN''s tactics of Rudd hoofing the ball up to him and hoping he can control it, hold it up, and bring others into play.....(which he doesn''t) then he should be dropped. He has scored four goal in 20 games! Speaks for itself IMO.

[ron obvious 1,517]

Devoid of class & skill? A player who can emerge from a ruck of 3 or 4 opponents & still get the ball away to one of ours? Who can backheel more powerfully & accurately than most of the rest can shoot? Who can delicately touch the ball into the net ( as he did for his first goal? Who can flick down headers accurately into the path of players like Jarvis & Naismith? Who is frequently completely isolated but manages to hold the ball up until help arrives (not that it does very often)? ...

Should''ve gone to Specsavers

P.S. he isn''t quick, but trying to say that is 2 faults rather than 1 just shows up the depth of your prejudice.

[City 2nd 191]

ron obvious wrote the following post at 2016-02-09 5:34 PM:

Devoid of class & skill? A player who can emerge from a ruck of 3 or 4 opponents & still get the ball away to one of ours? Who can backheel more powerfully & accurately than most of the rest can shoot..........

Should''ve gone to Specsavers?......

I should have gone to soecsavers........read your post........emerge from a ruck of 3 or 4 opponents........because as the OP states he is a ''bull'' and exactly that!

Backheel more powerfully than most can shoot.......bulls**t....he did it once! Delicately touch the ball into the net......if he''d have missed that he''d want shooting......anyone could have touched that in.......flick down headers......he wins headers because we lump the ball to him, that''s what he''s told to do........id rather see him play a deft through ball to Naismith or Redmond, then we might score.......

And I should have gone to soecsavers?! If he was a goal scorer he would still be with his patent club!

[Essjayess 307]

Agree with E.L.F about Hooly, ive been saying it for awhile now,  hes to lightweight. As to up front, doesnt matter if you play Mbokani or Jerome, if  they are up there alone with no support, they wont score many, neither would any other forward. Its crying out for Brady on the left, Redders on the right, Howson in center, Naismith stretching the oppos midfielders, and Bamford with either Mbok or Jerome.

[ron obvious 1,517]

If you''re just a big unskillful lump you won''t be able to wriggle past one premiership defender, let alone several .... how many times have you seen ANY player EVER backheel like that - again surrounded by a ruck of players?? ANYONE could have touched that goal in? Not in our squad? And what the eff is he supposed to do when he wins a header? Head it straight back to the opposition, as we are wont to do? He can also stop a ball dead when it''s lumped up to him before laying it off at the right pace & at the right trajectory for other team members to run on to.

He is not quick. He is often too far out on the wings - usually because he has zero support (ditto for Jerome), but he is fantastic at what he does. We don''t have another player with his combination of physicality, skill & invention. With the support he gets he does incredibly well - in fact the last player we had with similar attributes was a certain Mr. Holt (& Ashton before him).

[City 2nd 191]

ron obvious wrote the following post at 2016-02-09 6:24 PM

..........With the support he gets he does incredibly well - in fact the last player we had with similar attributes was a certain Mr. Holt (& Ashton before him).

As I said, you definitely need specsavers a lot more than I do! And the difference is Ashton and Holt scored goals, and were both very skilful too. Not only is your eyesight questionable but your memory is to! To place Mbokant in the same mould as those two is laughable.

[jaemae2 0]

[quote user="City 2nd"]ron obvious wrote the following post at 2016-02-09 6:24 PM

..........With the support he gets he does incredibly well - in fact the last player we had with similar attributes was a certain Mr. Holt (& Ashton before him).

As I said, you definitely need specsavers a lot more than I do! And the difference is Ashton and Holt scored goals, and were both very skilful too. Not only is your eyesight questionable but your memory is to! To place Mbokant in the same mould as those two is laughable.[/quote]

HOLY S--- THE REPEATED STUPIDITY!!!!!

[City 2nd 191]

Jaemae 2 wrote:

HOLY S--- THE REPEATED STUPIDITY!!!!!

And your point is? Or is that the sole capability of your brain?

Oh wait!!! Already know that!

[jaemae2 0]

[quote user="City 2nd"]Jaemae 2 wrote:

HOLY S--- THE REPEATED STUPIDITY!!!!!

And your point is? Or is that the sole capability of your brain?

Oh wait!!! Already know that![/quote]

There there champ, it will be ok :tussleshair:

[ron obvious 1,517]

Sneering derision doth not a rational argument make.

You have made no attempt to refute any of my points. And I would say that Mbokani indeed has similar qualities to Ashton & Holt - three players with the same ingredients, but different quantities thereof.

He will never be a club hero - he''s on loan, he can''t speak English, & he''s about fro being a Norwich lad as it''s possible to be. But as someone to lead the line he is invaluable to us (Jerome, our next best bet, has scored 3 in 22 vs. Dieumerci''s 4 in 15).

[jaemae2 0]

[quote user="ron obvious"]Sneering derision doth not a rational argument make.

You have made no attempt to refute any of my points. And I would say that Mbokani indeed has similar qualities to Ashton & Holt - three players with the same ingredients, but different quantities thereof.

He will never be a club hero - he''s on loan, he can''t speak English, & he''s about fro being a Norwich lad as it''s possible to be. But as someone to lead the line he is invaluable to us (Jerome, our next best bet, has scored 3 in 22 vs. Dieumerci''s 4 in 15).[/quote]

Tip for you: Trying to have a discussion with unbridled stupidity isn''t really a rational thing either.

It''s fun for a laugh though.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

We need to give the opposition something to worry about when we have the ball, otherwise you are giving them one of the easiest rides they will ever have in their whole careers.  Sitting back and no high pressing when we don''t have the ball, then breaking slowly/lumping it up to the one upfront for them to try and hold it up, bring others in, win a fk or a throw-in, when we have the ball.Defenders hate being rushed, harried and attacked with pace.At least give ourselves a fighting chance, rather than giving the opposition a free ride to an easy 3 points.

[Samwam27 535]

I like AJ''s comment "he''s scored some good goals" Well in 4 that''s not many to choose from!

I''m not knocking Mbokani. I think with the right squad around him he''d score a hatful more.

But just to play devil''s advocate, here''s another teaser....

When we got relegated under Hoots, Hooper was our top scorer wasn''t he (or if he wasn''t thats not the point) The point is he scored 8 goals in an underwhelming season.

Mbokani has scored 4 in some 20+ goals. What if he doesn''t score many more. Will the many on this page still call him a beast.

And how does he compare to Hoops, who many at the time berated him for being slow, and not good enough for PL. We''re well over half way through this season and he'' scored double what Mboks has scored.

Don''t get me wrong, if AN can find a balance (& I like the 3-5-2 with Tettey/O''Neil as our best holding midfielders, with Brady Pinto as wing backs) then I''m really hoping we find some form, and Mboks more goals. He reminds me of a slower Drogba, but with less goals in him lol

[Jacko 0]

I was sat up high in the home end at Villa Park and I watched Mbokani very closely. I honestly don''t understand why so many of this board rate him so highly.

He does certain things well. When the ball is played directly into him then he will hold it up and bring others into play. He''s also a better finisher than Jerome.

However, his general mobility and willingness to work defences down the sides is very poor. I also don''t feel he harries defenders enough and we''re quite easy to pass through as a result. This is a real problem in games where we don''t have a lot of the ball.

Good teams defend from the front and the absolute masters have been Leicester this season in that respect. When they came to Norwich at times you wondered how the hell we could get the ball past Vardy and Okasaki such was their work rate.

I also do question his match awareness and tactical sharpness. He was needlessly caught offside a number of times in the game at Villa. To compound matters he also gave away a total needless free kick and was then out jumped by Lescott for the goal - with no idea or perception of where he was.

I would now play Bamford or Jerome ahead of him in virtually every game this season. Both players I feel will offer us far more than Mbokani does at present. Yes, Jerome will miss the odd sitter but that''s something I''m prepared to suffer for the other stuff that he brings.

[ron obvious 1,517]

He''s scored 4 in 15, not 20+ games. Villa was probably his worst game for us; he was outjumped by Lescott & caught offside more times in that game than the rest combined.

Even so he looked the most likely to score - he had a shot cleared & only the defender blocking with his arm (unintentionally) stopped him scoring from a tight angle on the follow up. He was blatantly hauled down in the area following a cross from the left.

I think he may be getting jaded. I wouldn''t mind seeing what Bamford could do if started, although I have my doubts; it''s not quality but his determination that concerns me.

[lake district canary 4,562]

Scoring goals isn''t the big problem - out of the bottom eleven teams, ony three have scored more than us, Chelsea, Sunderland and Bn''mth.  Its the other end that is the pressing issue.  We were matching Stoke at 1-1, we were beating Liverpool 3-1.   We can''t defend as a team, especially if players get needlessly gets sent off,  or defenders and goalkeepers make big errors.   I have every faith in Mbokani and Bamford - and Jerome (remember that overhead?) to score enough goals.  Learnng to defend better is surely the main issue. 

[Jacko 0]

I think part of my concern is that defending as a team starts from the very front. Leicester are the best exponents in the division on that score with the tireless work of Vardy and Okasaki. I''m yet to be convinced Mbokani works hard enough for the team and we do get passed through much more easily than when Jerome plays.

It''s also worth pointing out that whilst it''s not his primary function that Mbokani was badly at fault for the first goal. Giving away a needless set piece and then being dominated by Lescott for the goal. Strikers have to pitch in at both ends of the field. I feel that Jerome and Bamford would do that better.

[ron obvious 1,517]

Does Jerome defend set pieces? I honestly don''t know - I''ve not been looking for him there.

But I will be absolutely amazed if Bamford proves to be much of a defender.