peateabee

This decision seems like absolute insanity to me. Why on earth don''t you just loan him out to get first team football?! You can''t make this proposed model work properly if you''re selling your youth teams best prospects before they''ve even begun to reach their potential. This could be the equivalent of when we could have sold Maddison a couple of seasons back when that 300K bit came in. Thank goodness we didn''t take that eh? Besides he is a winger more than a number 10 isn''t he? We''ve only got 2 of those at the club, Murphy and Hernandez. (Watkins makes 3 if you count him as a winger, which I don''t. Oh and another clubs youngster with a potential attitude problem!). As a self sustaining club we can''t afford to make decisions like this, not giving good young players a chance, even to just reach their maximum potential market value.

slightly preferred the look of Nathael Julan, who we were linked with. This one strikes me as more of a risk than our other signings, but who knows. We certainly need a striker.

Pretty much a perfect display from the bench. Always looking to make things happen, and not only looking to make things happen, but actually delivering. He did seem really fired up today too! he worked really hard, harried the defence more effectively than Jerome as well and fought for and held the ball up well. If he can maintain that intensity and urgency to his game, maybe add a slight improvement to his team play, that added to the natural qualities he has, we might just have a genuine premiership quality striker on our hands. And we haven''t had one of those for quite a while.

I thought the areas for greatest improvement were - Working on different ways of playing out from the back (obviously we''re not going to be proficient at it yet!) - defenders looked a little hesitant in playing it into the central midfielders at times and the opportunity to ''get out'' passed by. (midfielders have to really work hard to give good options and make angles though! - it''s tough!) I also don''t think we used the wing backs enough to get out either. It was too slow in getting across to them - and the space they were often in had disappeared, so it had to go back again the other way. If our centre backs could get their switching of play up to scratch it might help. Toby Aldewiereld is a master of it at spurs. Also I thought we could have used the wing backs more effectively in an attacking sense, providing width in the final third. This would also provide more numbers in the final third, and I thought the numbers into that area as well as the movement in it could have been better as well. When we did get out from the back we were fairly slick in midfield, but often the impetus of the attack waned when we got nearer the box. These tactics definitely seem to have the emphasis on the ''team'', everyone needs to do there job, and do it to a good standard for it to function well. If we can become a well oiled machine, and I think we have just enough quality to pull it off, then it could be good come the end of the season.

I thought maddison was excellent today and showed great potential again. He is so comfortable on the ball. Looked good in a deeper position too - I think it could improve his game as his decision making will have to be spot on as he can take less chances there. However he wasn''t risk averse and still retained his creative and confident style of play. I think him and pritchard could play in the same team against certain opposition if he carries on playing like that, with pritchard playing higher up off a single striker and maddison linking play from slightly deeper.

Be interesting what the reaction from people would be if a 12.5 million pound bid came in for Josh. When the same happened for Jacob, everyone went weak at the knees and all a sudden it changed from ''he''s going nowhere'' to being ''a bid that was too good to be turned down for someone with one season in the championship under his belt''. And this despite the players massive potential value to us this season and in following seasons too. Something tells me that the same bid for Josh would not be viewed in the same way. (and no - the argument that selling one left us with the other as a direct replacement doesn''t cut it. For starters, they favour opposite wings.) But what if Josh wants to move, then you would have to sell if his head has been turned wouldn''t you? That was another line of argument with Jacob. Can''t play hardball for the good of the club and try to convince a player to stay - not when there is that much money on the table. Again, I think people might want to put up more of a fight this time around. Besides, 12.5m is not going to plug much of a gap for long in modern day football. If Jacob had helped us go up then the windfall of £100+ would have. It certainly would be a genius way of Newcastle getting both twins for just £20m upfront. Buy one with a little show of cash, then unsettle the other by offering him the chance to join his brother again. What a bargain that would be. Although I seriously doubt this will happen I think this hypothetical situation shows up some of the strange thinking that went on over the Jacob Murphy transfer. Jacobs transfer situation concerned me because, as a club we cannot afford to repeatedly follow this example and sell our best young players at the first sign of decent money - not when we need our best young players to get promoted. And promotion is where the serious money is to be found that would really benefit the club. So that is where our focus should be while we still have a real shot at it. Would Jacob Murphy staying have increased our chances of getting promoted - yes. Enough to find another way to plug a 5 million pound gap in the finances - I would have thought so. For the sake of the progress of the club we have to fight harder to keep our best young players in the future.

No thanks. Technically an decent player and I could see how his type might fit into how Farke''s team seems to be developing. However not a great team player and the team ethic is going to be important for us this year. Also at 29 now - if we spend decent money on him we won''t be getting it back and I can''t imagine he would be too cheap. (hasn''t he also been almost permanently injured since we sold him?!) Buying younger, hungrier players with potential to improve and command a greater transfer fee than we pay should be our mantra in all but the most exceptional circumstances.

The stupid thing is that nobody watches Match of the Day for Gary Lineker, they watch it for the football highlights (or the live game) - he adds hardly any value at all. Just get rid of him and to be honest you could probably get rid of the pundits too most of time - just show the football! Bet the audience figures wouldn''t go down much if at all.

I would have done everything possible not to sell Murphy, but would I sell Jerome for the right price, definitely. Of course having sold him you would then want to see the money used to buy a younger replacement of course, someone who looks like they might have the potential to be better. That is really the only way to drive a club like this forward, and is also why having a good scouting network is so pivotal. Bit like what happened with Howson and Dorrans, sell just after their peak, and look to the future. It''s what should have happened with Ruddy as well, having an ex england international goalkeeper on your books and having to let him go for free in the end is just the result of bad management and planning and is something a cash poor club like ours cannot afford to do.

Well, I don''t expect this to happen. Why would we sell Josh at this point in his career for anything other than an astronomical fee of say £20- £25m which is basically to say he is not for sale. Best left wing option we have, got an eye for goal, if he develops like it looks like he will he could be a cracking player that could drive the club forward. We must keep hold of these sorts of players for as long as we can! Anyway he could be worth significantly more with a second championship season under his belt. If we don''t get promoted and he wants to leave, we could always sell him then. My answer - he''s one of our own, so you can jog on by thank you very much. If only we had another version of him for the right hand side, wouldn''t that be good. (And yes, that paragraph should have also applied to Jacob in my opinion, the extra rebuild money should have been more creatively raised from elsewhere. But hey-ho. This time I will be astonished if this is not the line the club takes.)

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]I''d still expect 3 or 4 new players in yet. Webber will spread the Murphy money around the positions and chuck in a loan or two towards the end of the window. Josh Murphy is primarily a left winger, so still think we might be a bit light on the right hand side. If Farke wants to use 3 at the back regularly then he''ll probably need another centre back, or at least an additional RB to free up Martin to centre back. Webber has already stated that Howson will be replaced, so a midfielder will come in. Whether it is one who goes forward to stays back will be interesting to see. So, 1 midfielder, 1 defender (CB or RB), 1 right winger and 1 ''other'' who becomes available on loan.[/quote] Glad to see some people at least acknowledging that in selling Murphy we might actually be a little short on the right and that Josh Murphy is not the direct replacement that I keep on hearing he his. He actually prefers to play off the left. The decision of whether to sell murphy was the right one is different question, but justifying it with the argument that they are essentially the same player and as such couldn''t have been fielded in the same team is codswallop. I wish people would just drop that and stick to the re-building argument that at least has some credence. Whether we are light in the right winger department depends on whether Farke''s preferred formation has an emphasis on 4-1-4-1 as it was at dortmund or whether that has suddenly changed to a 3-5-2 emphasis. They are played slightly differently and as such need players with slightly different specialisms to play them. I think at some point a decision needs to be made about the preferred system (hopefully it already has!) and then sign players accordingly. Otherwise we''ll be signing players for both formations and we''ll end up with a squad that is just as bloated as it was at the start of the summer.

Just seen we are already being linked with a midfielder where some of the Murphy money might go. Hanno Behrens, DM. 27 yrs old - so not that young, but a ''midfield motor'' apparently which I like the sound of. Midfield did not control games enough last season while offering protection to the back four. Don''t really want to see Tettey still playing there next season if possible. I think what this Murphy decision from Webber has actually done for me is to ironically raise what I expect for the season ahead.. For him to cash in on Murphy to rebuild the squad (hopefully we will actually sign some people). He had better be building a squad that is capable of taking us up. Frankly that''s the only thing that will excuse it in my mind.

Personally I think this is a shocking decision. Overall I''ve been ''pretty content'' (as Farke would say) with most of the changes this summer, but this is one I don''t agree with one bit. Was still an important player with his goals and assists stats last season despite blowing hot and cold as he was still adjusting in his first full season at that level. I think he could have been a vital player for us this season with this experience under his belt and would have thrived under the new coach and style of play. Also astonished that so many people can''t see that Jacob was not keeping Josh out of the team or vice-versa. It was simply the managers decision to just not field the two of them together (maybe their combined inexperience was his reason, after all you never win anything with kids. Or maybe it would have made our defence a little lightweight) But whatever his reason was, they remain different players. They can play in the same side and actually complement each others games as shown in the Fa youth cup side. They played on different wings for crying out loud. That side was better for having two Murphys in it instead of one. And I think the full team would have benefitted similarly in time. Infact this was the season, when having gained a little experience they could have ended up turning out together. Either on each wing, or with one as a pacey striking option. All that promise of a partnership, and then for one to leave at the moment we might get to see what potential it really had is most dissappointing. He was ''one of our own'' (a rare thing in football these days) and frankly we didn''t put up that much of a fight to keep him. Given his contract situation at the very least we should have been able to keep hold of him for another season if we really wanted to. Better players with bigger profiles than Jacob Murphy have been convinced to stay at a club. If we did want to keep him and Webber couldn''t convince him then he needs to take a long hard look at how he handled this situation. Bizarrely it seems to me that we just weren''t that desperate to keep one our best young players who if he fulfilled his potential this year might have helped drive the club forward. If you buy young and hungry players, with the aim of developing them, but then you sell those players as soon as it looks like they might be getting good, what is the point. At some point you have got to draw a line. Players you want to keep for as long as possible for the progress of the club otherwise you are nothing more than a glorified feeder club to the teams you want to be displacing from the Premiership. Pritchard, Maddison, the Murphys. These are the players where the lines should be drawn, where we keep them as long as is absolutely possible. Howson and Dorrans, these are the players we are rightly selling for progress sake, whose monetary value is only diminishing and whose footballing value will be soon. Not Jacob Murphy, at least not yet. No-one really knows what we are selling or how good he could be. And he was certainly good enough to wait and see a little longer. Obviously a coach of the calibre of Rafa Benitez thought this was a good deal for Newcastle. Honestly I suspect that this is the hard end of the wedge for the clubs mismanagement of players relegation clauses and parachute payments that has left us with too high a wage bill and not enough cash to rebuild the squad. (Those relegation clauses obviously weren''t worth the paper they were written on if they''ve scuppered us just a year down the line - Do they not continue to re-adjust in line with the reduction in parachute payments?) But despite this potential reasoning for the decision I still do not agree with it. For someone who said we needed to be creative in the transfer market Webber has taken about the least creative option available - selling one of our biggest potential assets for this and future seasons, who might have been worth even more financially this January let alone this time next year. This MUST be a one off. What happens if a 12m bid for Pritchard comes in now. Thats good money again. Would we take that as well? Someone offers 5m for Maddison. He hasn''t played much - quite a good offer. Take that as well? We''ve got loads of options in that area of the pitch. I assume we''re selling Josh next summer when he looks like he''s getting good too? All goes into the pot for rebuilding that defence I suppose. Despite the fact we''ve already signed three defenders this summer. Or were they not good enough for the first team? And if they were do we desperately need 12m pounds to play with for making additions? I guess we will see what Webber and Farke think about that in coming weeks. But we had better buy someone with that money, and they had better be worth it, Despite all that I''m still looking forward to the new season, and still reasonably positive about it too. Just gutted it was a murphy who we decided to cash in on, so early in his norwich career.

[quote user="king canary"]@peteabee Id agree with you if we were talking about him moving to a team like Liverpool or Spurs where he''d be unlikely to start. But a move to a newly promoted team like Newcastle would actually be pretty sensible for him - playing at the top level in a team where he''ll probably get games. Don''t see it being the kind of move to stall his development.[/quote] I can see your point. If he was to move to a prem team right now, Newcastle are not a bad option. He will likely have to displace Ritchie or Atsu from the wings depending on how they line up, but that is not unimaginable. However a team starting the season looking over their shoulder at the relegation zone, which Newcastle and about half the prem will be doing is not always a great environment for a young player to learn his craft! He blew a little hot and cold for us even in the championship, if he starts doing that in the prem and Newcastle are lower down the table he might not be given that much time. If he had the confidence and experience of learning how to really tear it up CONSISTENTLY in the championship, then that would be an even better platform to make a move in my opinion. Then he might be automatic first choice and wouldn''t be in a position of learning on the job quite as much. I think a move now for him is a calculated gamble, and one with not too much room for failure - he has to hit the ground running and he might not have all the tools to do that just yet. A move next season is just a safer long term bet on his career I think. (All said with my NCFC hat firmly in position! He''ll probably move and crush it )

[quote user="king canary"]I do wonder if those who say ''we can sell him as we have Josh'' actually watching him them very much- they are quite different players.[/quote] Completely agree. And their games even intermesh really well as shown by their time in the youth team. Plus that understanding of each others game is such an asset in the final third. Why have one when you can have both is what I say!

[quote user="City 2nd"]peateabee wrote the following post at 2017-07-15 Even if Jacob is a Newcastle fan I still don''t think that means we automatically need to let him go! This is the classic example of the club hierachy needing to at least have the ''one more season'' chat. There are good sound reasons for him personally to stay as well. Frankly I, and I''m sure a lot of norwich fans, would think it was best for Jacob to be guaranteed first team football this season. He needs serious minutes this year to continue his development. The challenge of changing clubs and living up to a transfer fee will be new and with Matt Ritchie already well embedded in Jacobs favoured position there is no guarantee he will get those minutes at Newcastle who will start the season in a relegation scrap along with half the Premiership. He has to hit the ground running there. But here he can grow, develop, build his confidence and prove himself and his quality in a team who will (hopefully) be on the front foot, suit his way of playing and give him a position in the starting eleven that is his to lose. If we don''t go up this season and he carries on developing, the move to newcastle will still be there and he might be a first choice starter then, and probably at a larger fee for us. If we do go up - maybe he won''t want to leave, and even if he does, it will certainly be for a larger fee. Now that is the win - win situation for everyone involved which I hope everyone at ncfc could get behind, including murphy himself. Do you seriously think this young man is not considering his own financial position rather than footballing position! He will be made for life if this goes through. And there is no guarantee he will be worth anywhere near the current valuation next season![/quote] This is a classic example of the short term thinking young footballers get sucked into. This guy is a good enough footballer so that he doesn''t need to jump at the first big contract to come his way. At this stage ALL he should be thinking about is his ''footballing position'' and on improving his game. If he does that and works hard enough the money will undoubtedly come. So many youngsters go for the big bucks straight away, stall their progress, and then lose out on money over the course of a career. Of course there are never any guarantees in life, but you can''t live life in fear of tomorrow.

[quote user="lake district canary"]The problem is, we are told, that Muphy wants the move to go ahead. That is the hype and if true, then it is best for all parties to agree and get the job done. However, I am always suspicicious of Newcastle - and agents for that matter. They are hyping this up totally publically through Lee Ryder and it is not the way to do it imo. I do hope Jacob is strong enough to resist any hype that is there and see what is best for his future - which may be staying at Norwich another season. If he does genuinely see his future at Newcastle, then good luck to him, but the fee has to be right for us too. £10m does not cut it, imo, given what PL clubs are getting this season. http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/newcastle-united-submit-increased-offer-13335142And who has decided Jacob is a Newcastle fan? [/quote] Even if Jacob is a Newcastle fan I still don''t think that means we automatically need to let him go! This is the classic example of the club hierachy needing to at least have the ''one more season'' chat. There are good sound reasons for him personally to stay as well. Frankly I, and I''m sure a lot of norwich fans, would think it was best for Jacob to be guaranteed first team football this season. He needs serious minutes this year to continue his development. The challenge of changing clubs and living up to a transfer fee will be new and with Matt Ritchie already well embedded in Jacobs favoured position there is no guarantee he will get those minutes at Newcastle who will start the season in a relegation scrap along with half the Premiership. He has to hit the ground running there. But here he can grow, develop, build his confidence and prove himself and his quality in a team who will (hopefully) be on the front foot, suit his way of playing and give him a position in the starting eleven that is his to lose. If we don''t go up this season and he carries on developing, the move to newcastle will still be there and he might be a first choice starter then, and probably at a larger fee for us. If we do go up - maybe he won''t want to leave, and even if he does, it will certainly be for a larger fee. Now that is the win - win situation for everyone involved which I hope everyone at ncfc could get behind, including murphy himself.

I''m gonna be gutted if this goes through, particularly if its anything like 10m with add ons. From a purely financial point of view it is extremely likely that Murphy will be worth more at the end of this season than now (he was only just adapting!) - he is an asset with rapidly increasing value and no-one has a clue how far it will rise - see the difference from last summer to this! I would suggest that to ''cash in'' on him at this point in his career would be to not cash in at all. He could feasibly be worth double at the end of next season. Not good business for a cash poor club trying to maximise it''s earnings! But more importantly than all of that is that us norwich fans have been waiting since that FA youth Cup final to see the two Murphys tearing it up on either wing for the first team. Now, finally they have got some minutes under their belt, they have begun to adapt, and now we have a manager with a system that could really suit them and help them realise their potential. It would be sickening to see us sell him at this point, just as it looks like this is the season where it could click into place. And if it really does click into place, a team with the two murphys playing as wide forwards (just like they did in that youth FA cup final) with oliveira in between and pritchard or maddison pulling the strings behind really could be an attack that propels us up. A club like ours shouldn''t be trying to cash in on our best young players. If our transfer policy is to buy young and hungry, but then we sell them at the first sign of a big offer just when they might be getting good then how are we supposed to grow as a club? Cash in on players like howson by all means whose career is gradually coming to an end, but we need to at least try and grow alongside our best young players in those early years otherwise we are little more than a glorified feeder club for the premiership. That''s not even mentioning the fact that it would be massively beneficial to Murphy to stay with us for at least one more year to really nail down his craft. If he ends up on the bench at Newcastle I am going to be even more gutted! Anyway, better stop now - I needed to vent.

We shouldn''t bother giving him a new contract. No need. Have Pinto as first choice right back. Keep Martin as back-up and a more defensive option in that position. Put the money from Whitaker''s wages towards the wages of a decent, and younger centre back. We need to be prudent, we can''t afford a contract for a third choice right back who is proven to be not good enough for where we want to be going.

I had a long train journey the other day and rather than doing anything useful(!) I thought I would see who I would look at for CB this summer. I think we should be as ambitious as possible this summer with anyone we buy with a view to building a team for not just the championship, but the potential of the premiership too. Here''s a bit of the a list I ended up with Liam Moore, Leo Lacroix, Bruno Ecuele Manga, (unlikely now that we are in the Championship, but worth also keeping tabs on Steven Caulker as no-one seems to want him as yet, and Djilobodji who is beyond surplus to requirements at Chelsea). There are other decent signings as centre back from within the Championship as well such as Lewis Dunk, Aden Flint. Might be able to pip Harry Maguire who hasn''t been playing regularly at Hull. I would also like to see us bring in a new DM as well this summer and I see someone else said Bridcutt, which I think would be a pretty good shout I think, and I think he is a real possibility. Also worth a look on Frimpong on a free?

[quote user="jaemae2"]That doesn''t seem hasty in the least, pal as Hooper is garbage in the Champ too.[/quote] I certainly wouldn''t want him as our first choice striker, but he''s got 13 for Sheffield Wednesday, so he could have potentially been a useful squad player again in the Champ. I''d agree that we can do much better though. A lot of the suggestions on this thread for starters.

This is the point when you wish again that we had used our premier league status to buy a striker rather than simply loaning Mbokani. At least at this point we would have another decent striker at the club, even if we were still getting relegated. Getting relegated with Jerome and Afobe would have been a different proposition. At least there was a chance we could have convinced a new signing to stay. Even selling Hooper seems a bit hasty.

I would get rid of Whitaker, Lafferty, Turner, Loza, McGrandles, Andreu. Possibly Odjida Ofoe depending on who we have to sell or can bring in. I would love to keep Redmond, Klose, Howson, Brady, Naismith. Would really like to keep Pinto, Olsson, Dorrans, Jerome, Bennett, Mulumbu, Martin (more as a right back than a centre back), Toffolo, Murphys, Rudd, Hoolahan, Morris. I think that Jarvis and O''Neil are both worth keeping. Tettey and Ruddy I would honestly consider trying to cash in on if the opportunity arose. They would both be good in the Championship and would be happy if they are in the squad. But with a view to building for the prem I think that we could do better than them and can manage without them in the short term. Bassong is a weird one in that he is probably would be absolutely fine again in the Championship, but he is obviously not gonna cut it if we went up again, so there is no point in building a team with him at the spine of it. However if he is happy to play second fiddle, I would be happy with him as a squad player. RVW is an even weirder one as we all know. Honestly I would keep him in the squad and try him out in the champ unless we sign one or two good forwards, but I can see how that would be nuts to some people. Then in terms of signings I would like us to go for the best centre back and forward we can buy. And when I say ''the best'' I think we should not only look at what they can do for us next season, but also their potential at making an impact on the premiership. If that means we have to take a calculated risk by not buying someone who isn''t the absolute finished article then that would be fine by me. If we can somehow buy the finished article, then even better! If they had some real pace that would be great for looking to build to the Premiership. I would also like us to try to find a quality defensive midfielder who can break up play and then start us moving forward, again with a view to making an impact in the Premiership. Looking forward to seeing Maddison in pre-season. as well.

Seems like a mad decision from the outside. You could argue that they have been on relegation form for a while after their great start, but even still seems crazy.

For my money I agree with what some others have said. I''m sure he would be fine for us in the championship, but we should be looking to build a team that can survive in the prem if possible and he has been at the spine of a team that has been relegated twice with us. That position was something that would have needed to be looked at if we had stayed up to try and solidify us anyway.