Monty13
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Posts posted by Monty13
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35 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:I understand that. But there is a difference between formal announcements of change, which have indeed been thin on the ground, and changes in reality behind the scenes.
Despite the lack, for example, of Attanasio increasing his shareholding, or being confirmed by the EFL, I have been making the point for some months that he has become as powerful as S&J and arguably more so.
And this week Southwell said Attanasio was already not only acting as a joint majority shareholder but - egually importantly - was being treated as such by all inside Carrow Road.
Thought it was pretty clear from recent comments by Attanasio around Knappers appointment and future plans he’s wielding quite a lot of power.
Regardless of the shareholding %s he holds the financial purse strings, that surely makes him the de facto board leader as little outside BAU can presumably be done without his sign off.
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3 minutes ago, Walcombe canary said:What is an acceptable price for us to sell J Rowe this month ?
More than anyone will offer I’d bet.
The only reason I can really see for an EPL club to buy him now is to steal a march on a bidding war in the summer.
Struggling clubs he’s unlikely to be thrown in and make a difference, he still looks too raw for that IMO.
Maybe someone like Villa would buy him and loan him back for the rest of the season.
Personally I still think we should continue to pursue a new contract, what’s the point in Attanasio’s backing if we don’t try to keep hold of the players that are special at this level.
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3 minutes ago, hogesar said:Leeds with a significantly better squad but we matched them all the way.
I wouldn’t say matched them all the way, but we competed and kept ourselves in it against a far better side. They had a few good chances they wasted.
Credit to Wagner and the players, but for a mistake from Duffy, a poor finish from Sara and a poor final decision from Onel things might have been different.
On moments such games turn.
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Leeds are a good looking side (given the sheer depth of talent at their disposal not really surprising) but for all their possession and attractive football it really should be 1-1.
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1 hour ago, BigFish said:Much to agree with here, perhaps I misunderstood your point which I thought was the idea of some kind of supporters trust. It would be neater if S&J took the equity gain, and then decided what to do with it. This would of course trigger a formal takeover at that price per share giving the minority shareholders an exit route. I am sure that even @Essex Canary would welcome that. Or perhaps not.
As for MA investing to improve his 60% e.g. for every £ he invests he gets 60 pence of benefit that is nonsense. He could of course keep lending at userous rates but the doesn't really help the club.
Sorry I just don’t get this calculation.
For every pound MA loans the club he gets that pound back, interest on that pound plus a potential equity increase on the pounds he has invested in shares.
As for whether his lending helps the club, suppose that depends very much what’s achieved with it.
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9 hours ago, BigFish said:For a start if he only owns 60% of the company, the Trust is effectively freeloading off any funding he puts into the club. Any gain from £ he puts into the club, is reduced by 40%. In fact it is worse than that, he is actually giving away 40%. What would you do in that situation, what do you think he would do? Simply put we would be back to S&J, zero investment, and a self-funding club.
There is a reason why fan ownership doesn't work in Elite football. It is because eventually the fans have to put their hands in their pocket for amounts of money they don't have. The choice is stark. Either we continue as a self-funding club or a wealthy individual or group takes complete control. There is no other option, that is magical thinking. The same with the equity gain, there is a choice of who takes it not whether it is taken.
I get why Attanasio would want that.
I’ve no idea what’s been tacitly agreed between D&M and Attanasio. However why would they want to give him ownership of their shares without realising a significant gain themselves for all their troubles.
My only point was there’s a scenario where MA has complete majority control of the club without owning D&M shares, it’s already been set up to happen.
Why would he not invest to improve his 60% in that scenario. That makes no sense to me.
Especially as I assume MA would continue to structure any “investment” (debt financing, let’s face it) with a nice % yearly return to himself. He has not, and will presumably continue to not, put his hand in his pocket with no return other than some unrealised capital gain from the clubs worth. His funding are loans and are structured with a return in mind from what I can tell.
Would Tom and/or fans be freeloading off his investments? I suppose in the sense of equity gain, same as any established minority shareholder.
I’m not saying this is what will happen or should happen. I’m just pointing out at this point the only card D&M hold is what happens to their shares and it’s not clear to me MA has that yet.
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1 hour ago, repman said:The noises around Aboh are much less promising to be fair. Hopefully the change in regime (and possibly with another one on the managerial front coming) he will be convinced there's a pathway there. Even so it'll remain a hard sell with Sargent, Idah and Kamara all young and ahead of him as it stands.
Yea I heard that. We’ll see. Shame if so but getting one sorted is better than none. Agree tough break to get into our first team right now.
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12 minutes ago, BigFish said:This is a total non-starter. For MA to make the equity gain possible he needs total control, and he needs to take the club private. The choice is the club remains self-funding or it takes the sugar daddy support. There is no middle ground.
Based on what?
He can make equity gain on what he owns quite comfortably as majority shareholder while having effectively complete control.
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If we can keep playing this low block effectively and spring a counter can definitely see us scoring, just don’t see us holding out against almost certainly relentless opposition possession.
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3 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:I suggest the order might well be about correct, but the amounts could well be off the mark. How could they get that information with so much precision?
3 hours ago, canarydan23 said:I doubt the numbers are correct, but I'd be willing to bet heavily that the top 5 and the order are correct.
I agree. Put it this way, if I had to bet my life on which was higher, our wage bill position or our current league position I know where I’d be placing my bet regardless of what information is or isn’t available.
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1 hour ago, Wings of a Sparrow said:This.
Could we get to scenario where Delia and MWJ 'sell' the club on the cheap with little recompense for them, only for MA to make a substantial return somewhere down the line?
Depending on what they do with their share holding, yes 100%.
If I was them and wanted to protect the club’s future let Attanasio take a controlling stake by buying extra shares then give Tom theirs in a trust.
No one was going to accept Tom as majority shareholder, but acting as guardian of a large minority shareholding he could act as a voice on behalf of supporters against any of the worst fears of Attanasio ownership.
Basically giving Attanasio any equity gain from their shares seems like daylight robbery to me.
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It’s good news, there seems to be a suggestion from a few places that he and Aboh are the shining lights of the Academy right now.
Getting one tied down amid PL interest is great going, if we can get both that would genuinely be amazing work.
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Thought it was the best he has played in years to be honest. After that last ditch tackle he seemed to grow in confidence.
He’s been much maligned and I think to be fair, given his reported wage, we haven’t seen enough from him. However an on form Gibson is a top player at this level.
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It’s great to see our young talent out getting games and also the clearing of the deadwood starting to occur.
Got to say though, I’m with Wagner that if there’s no incomings soon we look likely to leave ourselves a bit short for the run in.
Great to have a bunch of injured players returning but the fact they were injured does somewhat suggest there’s a good chance in the next few months they and/or others may get injured again.
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2 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:Thanks @Robert N. LiM..it came through a feed in our office and I thought explained very clearly that there is a marketplace for selling sports clubs.
There are lots of Americans - many with no deep interest in soccer - buying the limited assets that are sports clubs. Football clubs being the key to a more global reach, even beyond Hockey, Basketball and NFL.
Not all of them are buying them because they love them. Lots of them are buying them because they are an appreciating asset.
Hedge Funds are getting involved now because it was an overlooked, underappreciated asset class. Plus it did not have a structured trading market. Plus it was not recognised for leverage by institutions previously.
Plus previously it was culturally considered a benign, almost philanthropic, culturally and commercially localized process and buying decision. Now it is none of those things.
Some people live in the past, some in the present and some in the future. If you see what others don’t see, you have an advantage. You can use that advantage in many ways.
As @nutty nigel has previously commented, some just treat the entire takeover of our club as ‘another transfer to get done’…frantically refresh Page 302, then queue up to be the first to post a thread complaining that it hasn’t worked.
Others - and I predict
…will take the time to read this and will understand exactly how it relates to Norwich.
The ownership and control of our club, all its assets, all its players, stadium, naming rights, buying and selling, academy, land, brand….is the issue in question.
Parma
Oh man I took the time to read it all and I didn’t even get a mention, now I feel seen off lol
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1 hour ago, canarybubbles said:He's a lesson in not judging players too quickly. He looked utterly woeful in that first season, and I remember posting and suggesting he belonged in the National League. Blush. Now he's looking like the only good signing we made that summer (with the possible exception of Tzolis, who will probably never play another game for us anyway even if he does turn out to be a decent player).
I don’t think he looked woeful. People were way too harsh on him that PL season. He was mainly played on the right wing, but given his age and the size of the challenge I always thought it was obvious he had good potential.
It wasn’t his fault he was bought to address a challenge he wasn’t ready for yet.
I always liked him and he’s been my favourite player for a while now. I’ll be gutted if we lose him in the summer (which seems possible with the current top flight lack of number 9s). He’s proven himself top class at this level.
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I mean how much quieter than no signings can it get?
Edit: finding the mixed messaging pretty odd
“It's understood, however, that it is unlikely Norwich will look to complete any incoming business in this transfer window, with a renewed effort to prepare for the summer.”
We are finally in genuine touching distance of the playoffs and top 6 has been the rhetoric for all this time…but now we are waiting till the summer to do any incoming business?
I just find that a bit odd.
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4 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:If - between now and the end of the season - we stay in 6th spot in the form table, it seems quite likely we would finish in the top 6. The other sides aren’t in ‘fixed’ positions. Clearly there’s a hell of a lot of work to do to be anything like that high.
Not sure, there’s 4 teams who could in theory drop out of the top 6 form for remaining games and still comfortably be in playoffs. I don’t think that realistically applies to Leicester and Southampton but I could see that for Leeds and Ipswich.
There’s also two teams between us and 6th now who have points and GD on us so our 6th form would have to comfortably make up that admittedly small gap over them.
The teams that usually grab the last playoffs spots are usually the ones with some of the best form for the run in.
If, and it’s a big if, we maintained 6th place form it may not be enough.
I’m really happy to see us still in contention (admittedly along with a bunch of other clubs), but we need stronger form than we’ve shown recently or all season to guarantee even 6th. I just feel we need to be mindful of that.
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45 minutes ago, CDMullins said:But is this really a ploy/strategy/tactic?
Or a bi-product of us struggling to retain possession?
I assumed it was the plan we have been trying to enact all along actually working.
You don’t play two strikers if you want to play possession based football. You don’t sign Duffy and Batth. You probably don’t sign players like Stacy and Sainz whose main strength on the offensive is carrying the ball at pace. Likewise you don’t give Onel a new contract and release Dowell.
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17 hours ago, hogesar said:We did.
Yea that’s an odd criticism, we may have surrendered possession, but we played out from the back much quicker (at times) and generally more effectively than previous games.
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1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:Yes, your post is embarrassing. Here are the tables based on the last 6 and 10 games.
To save you working it out our current 10 game form equates to around 83 points for a full season.
Edit - I've extended to the top 15 of the last 6 games for obvious reasons
If when we are on a good run of form we are doing just enough to finish 6th, how do we actually finish 6th?
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44 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:Which suggests we aren't as bad as some like to make out.
We aren’t. I always thought the question was more are we as good as we should be.
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Don’t like this setup and personnel choice, but still hopeful we can get a result. Lot of weight on Sarges shoulders.
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1 hour ago, hogesar said:Ah! So we need a SD that speaks, but only says what the fans want to hear. 😇😉
No, one that doesn’t act unprofessionally. There’s a middle ground between saying nothing and speaking like he did.
***Official Lappinitup Match Thread - Liverpool v Norwich***
in Main Discussion - Norwich City
Posted
100%, team looks much worse without Sargent and relies on some magic from Rowe all to often. Without both really creates an attacking challenge and that’s before you look at who we’re playing.