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[quote user="Jim Kent"]I don''t think I have ever felt so depressed and dejected about Norwich. I think we have really blown it. So many chances to save ourselves. Blackpool(away), Ipswich(away), Sheffield Wednesday(home), Reading(home). How many chances d you need. I don''t think we deserve a favour from Plymouth relegation is our own fault. Honestly I think our chances are gone and we will be relegated. But nonetheless I will be going to Charlton to witness the possible lowest day in the clubs history for 50 years. I am hoping for a miracle, but I can''t see us getting it.[/quote] There is no way we will beat Charlton. We don''t deserve the miracle and even if it happens and we survive we are only postponing the inevitable for a year. We had the miracle last year don''t forget. This club is on its knees and without a serious investor we can''t recover. Unless we spend money we won''t come back and we have no money to spend.We can place our hopes in the academy but that takes years to produce one or two players - and whether we can keep the academy going in league one is uncertain anyway. We can only hope that in League One we find our true level and don''t keep plummeting.

I agree that Big Fella''s post is superb - so nice to see some intelligent, structured comment on what is usually a kiddies rant site. Just one thing omitted in my opinion and that is the effect of Sky money and player greed during the period of our demise. Very few boards or managers could have done anything vastly differently in my opinion because of this millstone. Put simply, wealth cascades downwards. So we now have clubs like Newcastle and Middlesbro about to leave the Prem despite their wealthy backers, because most of the clubs above them have BIGGER wealthy backers. The successful Championship clubs (with one or two notable exceptions) also have wealthy backers. The reason we, Charlton and Southampton are going further down the tree is because we can no longer even compete with this level. Our backer isn''t big enough. Look at the clubs coming up from League One. Look at the ones making moves upwards in League Two and the Conference. With almost no exceptions they have financial muscle. When you have a player like Lee Croft supposedly after £9,000 a week it illustrates the problem. I like Crofty as a player. He works hard. But lets be honest, even if he may be the best player in the 42nd best football club in England is he really worth this kind of money? Let me re-state that - He may be the best player at the 42nd best club in England. He is in his early 20''s and he wants almost half a million pounds a year in salary. In a recession. From a club about to be in the Third Division. What income does he generate? How many people pay to see him? Would 1200 people not go every week if he wasn''t here? Crucially - why does he think he should get this kind of reward for failure? But he can easily get that at 20 of the 41 clubs ranked above us. Maybe more.That''s our problem. Yes, Doncaster is an overpaid, incompetent, uncommunicative buffoon. Yes, Delia and MWJ have made mistakes. Yes, our managers have been poor. But all in all while the Liverpools and Chelseas and Man Utd''s cream the money and make everyone else sprint to keep up, those of us who can''t have no chance. So Mr Scouser, I accept your tinted memories with the good grace they were offered - but please don''t try to pretend that you are not part of our problem. Until the FA and the Premiership sees the bigger picture and  redistributes the cash or Sky withdraws the big bucks, we and clubs like us have no chance.

[quote user="matt8"]Have just seen that Doncaster has issused a half apology. He says he regrets it i guess. As above poster, i really cant see anything else being done. I guess i''m just guna forget about it all and enjoy the day out at the Valley.[/quote] Except that what he is saying isn''t actually true. When I phoned up the box office on Monday morning about Reading tickets, I also enquired about Charlton ones and was told that when they opened their post on the Tuesday morning (i.e. the day  after the deadline had passed) there were loads of applications which they decided to process because they had already said that everyone who had applied in writing got one. How bizarre that the number of available tickets should exactly match the number applied for in writing so that no-one who applied in writing is disappointed and there are none available for general sale. It''s a trivial matter, perhaps and yes, those of us who missed out should have applied in writing (but some of us didn''t even know about the deadline) but the biggest issue here is that either the ticket office or Mr Doncaster is, at best, mis-informed or at worst, lying. Seems like a fairly common situation at NCFC these days.

He is absolute rubbish. Saw him frequently while at Watford - a complete donkey and fans would hate him as he is very lazy.

Have just spoken to the ticket office - there will be no Charlton tickets available for general sale on 22nd as all have been taken by late received postal applications. Charlton have been asked for extra tickets and have refused. So for the several thousand of us who have missed out, those of you who get to go better make some b****y noise!!

I think you''re almost spot on - other than us getting a draw at Ipswich which we won''t. But if the results do pan out as you suggest we will go to Charlton having to win to guarantee survival (because of our superior GD) and I would take that now.

We were never likely to get anything from Swansea away though, were we? The point at Birmingham was a bonus and got us into a position where we could have saved it, but poor tactics and team selection lost us 3 points against Sheff Wed. It''s a shame we have a novice manager, but I don''t see any reasonable alternatives for a club in our position. There is no doubt that our manager cares and is doing his best, and it is frustrating to see the blindingly obvious being ignored (like Croft being unfit, Carney being on a different planet, more pace needed up front etc) but it is THE PLAYERS who have got us into this. If Clingan is worth £3m and Croft/Marshall/Bertrand et al are looking to the Premiership why are we in such a mess? I know it''s a cliche but we really do have to take things one game at a time - we must beat Watford and then see where we are. I have always thought we would need 52 points to stay up and although fixtures are very unpredictable this time of year I still expect a couple of the teams above us to have bad run-ins. Personally, I see a very nervy 2-1 win over Watford. Can''t see us getting anything at Ipswich other than a sound thrashing but a night game, full house, backs against the wall win against Reading will take us to 49 points and the chance of a win on the last day to be safe. Whether we do that or not will be down to the manager (as it was last time against Fulham when Worthington showed just how tactically inept he was) and we can only hope that Bryan Gunn will have worked out what his best team is by then, and that Alan Lee stays fit.

Brilliant post, Snap!! And Fozzie only goes sideways because his legs are at the wrong angle.....!!

Do you actually go to any games, Jas? And if you do, do you watch them? Did you notice Hoolahan against the s**m? Bell and Hoolahan are both decent players and bargains at this level. Pattison at Watford was excellent, particularly second half and has had several good games this season. Stefanovic was another decent signing and was expected to be our experienced "rock" at the back. I agree we have some problems - playing 6 midfielders yesterday being one of them - and several of the loans have not come off (wonder if that''s why they are loans?) Koroma is a donkey, Kennedy is indeed slow and the most injury prone center back in the world and Sibierski (despite his being played out of position) has not really turned up. But I rate Lupoli and like most of us don''t understand why he doesn''t feature more, and Lita is the only goalscorer we have at the club, even if temporary. Omozusi has been excellent evrytime he has played at centreback, but often crap as a fullback. The players that have really let us down are Otsemobor, Doherty, Bertrand and Russell - all of whom switch off for large parts of every game they play and either make basic errors that cost us goals or don''t concentrate enough to score them. Just one other point though about the "we are better than last year" argument - we actually have fewer ponts now after 23 games than we had last year...... Nevertheless, I genuinely feel optimistic about the second half of the season and still think we are only own or two players away from being a decent team.

Or we will lose 1-0 after dominating but failing to put away our chances.

If you seriously think we are one of the worst teams in the division you have either not been to many games or have not been paying attention. We are not even close to being one of the worst teams in the division.

If you no longer go, you have no valid opinion. That simple. So find something else to do and stop posting about a sport you clearly don''t know anything about.

I thought Marshall and Doc were both at fault for both goals and would give neither of them more than a 4. Doc was isolated by them on several occasions and always looked vulnerable. Didn''t think Clingan had one of his better games either - he didn''t cover the ground like he did on Sunday, and I would only give him a 6. Semmy switched off again for the throw in before the second goal which allowed them to get the ball to Tommy Smith - I don''t rate him (never have) at this level because of his lack of concentration, and no more than a 5 for me. Our defending as a unit was extremely poor last night - Omozusi didn''t cover Doc very well and Betrand was consistently left standing by simple one two''s into the channels. We still desperately need a decent centre back to organise the back four and that''s where my money would go first if I was Roeder. None of our current centre backs are good enough and we look like we could concede at every set piece, whereas every team we play seems to have at least one dominant centre back who cleans everything up. Converesely I thought Russell did well in the second half when he went back to midfield and swapped with Pattison, so I would bring him up to a 5. Agree about the others though, but would probably give Crofty a 9 - he was execllent again. We missed Hoolaham dreadfully and I too don''t understand why Lupoli wasn''t given a chance. Lita was OK but never looked like scoring after he missed the goal with a free header early on. Think you''re being a bit unfair about Watford and their supporters - 3 sides of their ground are fine and they are in the same position we were in a few years ago with the old South Stand, but they have no money to pull it down or rebuild it. Their fans don''t sit in silence, but because the ends and sides are not infilled one end cannot hear the other - the Rookery is quite noisy when you''re in it. As for their style of play, they don''t hoof it like they used to and in Tommy Smith and Tamas Priskin they had the two most effective strikers on the night by far. Leigh Bromby (not apparently good enough for us a few years ago) was comfortable in the heart of their defence and they opened us up on several occasions down the channels, particularly in the first half just after they scored. Yes, we did dominate the game for possession and chances but they scored the goals and could have had more. Yet again we flatter to deceive. Some great approach play but the quality of the final ball wasn''t very good - Bell in particular was wasteful of good opportunities. It was a similar game to Coventry away and Sothampton away (before Stefanovitch was sent off) - also both games we could and should have won but for stupid defensive errors. Just adding those 9 lost points to our current total would see us near the payoffs. I''m not too despondent though. We are very close to being a decent team and it wouldn''t surprise me too much if we nicked a point at Reading.    

Last night I sat next to a group of 3 chaps in their 50''s in the Jarrold. (Incidentally, my own age group before I am accused of being ageist). From the very first minute they were moaning at Lee Croft, calling him hopeless and spineless. They then included Sibierski, Pattison and Kennedy in their "support". Even before we went behind, they were willing Palace to score. Five minutes before half-time they thankfully disappeared to the bars. At the start of the second half when Lita missed a chance they started on him - he was lazy and strutted about like he owned the place. Every time Palace had an attack they wanted them to score so they could "get out of here". Croft took even more flak. In the middle of one particularly vehement rant against him, Croft crossed for Pattison to score. One of them didn''t even get out of his seat or applaud - he was genuinely miffed that we had a chance to get something from the match. Hoolahan seemed to be exempt from criticism and even when he lost the ball in possession was "at least trying". All through the game the other things they came out of their mouths were negative and critical. In the second half they simply didn''t understand the system being played and kept saying that Lita couldn''t do it all on his own. Their lack of any kind of support and their breathtaking ignorance of anything to do with football was quite awesome. Thankfully, they left after 85 minutes. I am happy to defend the right for a paying customer to say what they like but my question is - why do they bother to go? And why are they so negative? Soemtimes what they said had some merit but most of the time it was just nonsensical vitriol. So I have a message for the 3 guys from Row S, Block K of the Jarrold - we don''t really want you to go to games unless you are going to support the team. Which brings me to the same question for most of you very negative Pink Un posters? Why do you bother to go? (And, in my opinion, if you don''t go to games you have no right to an opinion anyway - certainly no one should be expected to take you seriously. Unless the reason you don''t go is that you don''t get enough pocket money......). Like many of you I am unhappy with our position - who wouldn''t be? I too am in two minds about some players - Omozusi, Kennedy, Semmy, Fozzie, Sibierski, Lita etc. but at least I give them a chance. The performances against Birmingham, Wolves and Plymouth were as good as I''ve seen from a Norwich side since our Premier League season. Parts of other games have been good too, especially the first few. But I try to "support" my team all the time, otherwise what is the point of going?

Then you were at a different game to me. Semmy almost constantly lost his man and his position and when he did his usual "headless chicken" forward charges, he didn''t have a clue what to do at the end. In the first half, in particular it was like he was on something because his head wasn''t at Carrow Road.

I agree with you other than Otsemobor who was dreadful tonight and has too many moments when he doesn''t concentrate. I also agree that Hoolahan is worth a run of games playing in that "hole" behind the striker but not in any other position - he is so one footed, most teams work him out in 10-15 minutes and unless he has a free role they just close him out. As for Roaders comments tonight about us not deserving to be two down at half time, well I must have been watching another game. Palace tried the ball over the top three times earlier and the fourth time it worked, because they correctly identified our lack of pace at centre half. The second was a brilliant finish. Frankly we were crap in the first half. Finally I wouldn''t sign Lita permanently anyway - he is only interested in Leroy Lita and he isn''t that good. Again tonight he missed a sitter of a header just after half time and a harder chance which he snatched at, but much more crucially his work rate is reducing with every game - don''t think he''s a team player. Sibierski isn''t and never has been a target man which is why he isn''t playing well as one. He is just a stop gap - what happened to the Iversen deal? Thought Croft was excellent again tonight, and Clingan. Rest were pretty hopeless, I''m afraid

As usual, most of you pink un posters are talking complete and utter garbage. You spout drivel based on some kind of nonsense impression from the 1970''s. Why must everything be so negative? I live a few miles from Watford and it''s not a dump at all. I''ve been there loads of times. The bit around the ground is OK - no worse than the bit around Carrow Road or any other football stadium. The ground has three good sides and one condemned wooden stand but they don''t have any money to rebuild it - sound familiar at all? It''s a nice enough ground and the crowd can be very noisy but usually are a bit subdued - again, sound familiar? The hospital car park is OK and has security but might take a while to get out of. Some of the local schools open their car parks for the night for £4 a car but it''s pretty easy to park on the side roads or in the Harlequin shopping centre, which will be free from 6pm because it''s open for late night Christmas shopping, but check what time it shuts and make sure you can get the car out. And as for the football, I don''t think most of you lot ever actually go to any games with the crapola you come out with! Like the pillocks on Canary Call who freely admit they haven''t been to a game for 30 years but think Glenn Roader hasn''t a clue. Are you serious? Just examine the word "supporter" would you? Notice that first bit - "support". Anybody have any idea what that word might mean? No, didn''t think so. Do you all think that the Smiths/Roeders/Doncasters are in this position deliberately? Is your average age above 15? If you can''t cope with "supporting" a football club, please bugger off and join the Man Utd/Chelsea''Liverpool/Arsenal "fans" and please can we have some constructive posts rather than immature, vitriolic nonsense from people who don''t deserve what they have got. Ask Luton fans about their team. Ask Southampton fans. Perhaps most crucially, ask QPR fans who have now got another foreigner with no experience as their "coach" - read the post on the BBC website from a QPR fan asking Flavio to take his money and go away and give us our club back. I can almost hear you asking for my solution. No? Tough, here it is. If we were to get bought by an "investor" ticket prices would rise dramatically, so do it now and raise some bloody money. And by the way, how does Scott Carson get an England game? You see, clearly none of us know anything about football.....    

Don''t know why people think Koroma was Ok on Tuesday. I was there and he was just a big lummox with a bit of pace who missed two open goals my grandmother could have scored. He did manage to beat his full back but then cocked up the crosses! Bench at best!!

Totally agree. I don''t post anywhere very often but was very surprised by the positive spin on last night''s performance. We were all over the place defensively - Semmy had an absolute ''mare - and Southampton should have been three up at half time. We had a good start to the second half and Koroma should have scored - he''s not bad, but can''t see why we are playing someone else''s ordinary 18 year old instead of our own. I don''t want to keep harping back but a certain D Huckerby would have crucified them last night, even on last years form. Stefanovic lost his marbles as he has threatened to do in previous games (Coventry, QPR) and it was inevitable he would get sent off soon - but racist abuse from the Saints fans can''t have helped his mood (How come no-one complains about that?) After that we were taken apart and but for Marshall would have lost by four or five. No Norwich fan could see properly from the other end of the ground but having seen the replay it was the kind of penalty home teams get all the time - it happens, get over it. Grounds was frequently caught out at left back (is he really better there than Drury?) Fozzy struts around like some kind of prancing pony, and occasionally gets interested. Russell is all heart and endeavour but little quality. Sibierski and Lupoli are both quality and are you ready for this one - Omozuzi was excellent. Croft did well but again should have scored. Bertrand had an off night. I don''t understand the hype about Hoolahan - so one-footed he is very easy to defend against, and not very tricky anyway. As a team there was not a lot of cohesion - Southampton started very nervously and if we had got a goal they could easily have crumbled, but when they went two up the youthful zest and spirit took over and they were superb against our 10 men (funny how we so bad against the 10 of QPR). Lets be clear about where the fault is here - the players, who generally are decent individuals (unlike the cretins he inherited from Grant). We know they can do it because they did at against Birmingham, Plymouth, in part against Coventry etc and in the first part of the second half last night. Players have to perform consistently and in particular they have to do their jobs. If you are a right back, you don''t stand off and let your man have a try without trying to stop him. If you are a striker, you are supposed to score - we had 5 very good chances last night, only 3 were on target and all were saved from positions where the keeper should have had no chance. I don''t agree that there is a crisis - we were still so much better last night than against QPR away last year, which was a very low point. Lita is a good loan signing I think - he might show Cureton what to do, and I''m looking forward to seeing Bell - saw him a few times for Luton and he was always classy and effective. I think we will beat Derby on Saturday and I see a solid mid-table season - but be under no illusions, this is not a team capable of a top six finish in this division

Soem good points here - but you''ve missed one very basic one and that is that the Club isn''t worth £36m. Peter Cullum has bought almost 200 companies in the last 10 years so he knows how to value them. Delia and Doncaster are naturally trying to protect their investment but the fact is that despite her £9m or whatever she has put in, as of now the Club is worth peanuts. On a reasonably conservative Assets less Liabilities basis, it might have a positive Net Worth but I doubt it. If there is a total of £20m due in debt, where are the assets to counter that? Say £5m of player values - is the ground and Colney worth £15m? Shouln''t think so. So that gives us a negative Net Worth. Delia''s shares, your shares, my shares are worthless. So, with that in mind, along comes Peter Cullum and says, give me control (remember he only asked for control - that''s 51% of the shares) and I''ll give you £20m for players. Yes, he knows he has to offer on all the shares. Yes he knows the Club is worthless but remember also that once he has "control" he also has the £20m debt. Delia could have kept 49% simply by asking everyone else to give up their shares, which they probably would do. But Delia has gone on record in the past as saying that no-one should ever have "control" of the club again after the Chase era - apart from her presumably. Don''t get me wrong - I have nothing but respect and admiration for Delia. She rescued NCFC when it needed rescuing. But the truth is that she will never get her investment back, and in trying to she is holding the Club back. You can sympathise all you like, and I''m really sorry about that too, but like your shares and my shares, hers are worthless. To suggest that they are worth £30 each is, quite simply, nonsense. One other point no-one seems to have commented on. Peter Cullum''s major partner in almost all of his businesses is Norwich Union. Aviva by another name. John Kitson is a personal friend of his. A coincidence that suddenly (after years of refusing to support and sponsor NCFC as a "loss leader") they are our shirt sponsors? Maybe. Maybe not. Personally, I think Peter Cullum''s was an honest and honourable offer for a financially worthless company. And I suspect we will regret not taking it.