I'm now a 2nd class supporter and proud!

[Putney Canary 0]

You see different things being at the game to watching on TV or listening to the radio.

Being at the game you see who is making runs off the ball, whether players are tired or injured before a substitution (often missed by radio commentators), exactly where the action is taking place so you can see who is out of position and who is covering for who, what formation is being played. You see the expressions on the players faces and the managers, you see who is leading the team through encouragement (or shouting/laying the blame). All these things can easily be missed on a full TV broadcast, let alone highlights.

TV Highlights (and instant replays available to Radio commentators) show you if a player was offside, if contact really was made or was it a dive? Did the ball cross the line, was that handball deliberate? So in some respects its better. But, highlights especially miss the beginning of the build up to a goal, so you can miss who''s fault the goal actually was. That happened to me recently, blaming someone for a goal (that I had heard on Radio and watched ITV highlights for) but when I saw longer highlights I saw I was wrong.

On the radio you can basically make of it what you will, the commentators CAN''T give you an accurate description of all that happens, just too much goes on for a human to mention it all. Roy Waller can''t even get our players names right half the time. You can''t even guage the atmosphere, microphone placement can make a HUGE difference to the noise generated by fans! But its better than not listening!

Even those at the games don''t agree, as they all see different things (and value player attributes differently).

I am an exile, but listen to commentary, read the reports, read message boards for supporters reactions, and read the press opinions. After all that I can make assumptions about what happened, but it still isn''t as accurate as if I had been there. That is the frustration of the exile but you get used to it, but it doesn''t make me a second class supporter!

What annoys me is all the messages that appear on here at 5pm on a Saturday slagging off the team, when all people have heard is radio commentary. I do get the feeling though that these people would be moaning if they were at the ground too, some people just like moaning.

When people say "but you weren''t even at the game" they mean "how can you moan so much about what happened when you didn''t even see it" NOT "you are a second class supporter who can''t be bothered to turn up". And they are right I''m afraid.

[nobbyg 0]

[quote]It has to be put quite bluntly - Nobby you truly are talking out of where the sun don''t shine. Being a Norfolk exile, I will be lucky to make 1/2 games at Carrow Road this season. With work / family ...[/quote]

Tremendous reply - I didn''t see you in the snow queueing for the European Tickets and you didn''t get trampled under the same horse that I did. 

Are you trying to insinuate that I don''t go to any games or that I don''t have any family / work or other commitments. 

Not once did I say your opinions were less valid - just less informed.  How can they not be less informed when you are relying on Adams or the Newspapers.  There is a difference between opinions on the wide general stuff where we are all coming from the same base of evidence and opinions on certain players and performances when some people were there and others read Brian Woolnough in the newspaper.

Didn''t watch the England game so cannot comment on the performance - saw the goals and in my opinion James was at fault for at least the first one.  He might have made a stack load of other saves - but I doubt it because the Radio 1 news told me that everyone is giving him stick therefore that is all I have to go on.

I am not going to Southampton on Saturday - but I will be posting deeply analytical player ratings on Monday morning for you all to gorge on.

I bet 1st Wizard is sitting back laughing his behind off at this thread.  I can''t help but be drawn into arguments like this.

[First Wizard 0]

What has really got up my nose is the assumption by some (supporters?) that their view of a game is more valid than someone who listens to a good commentary and wasn''t there, I believe this is elitism.

When I, and to be fair others, went to FCR, we never thought like you lot do.

And we never booed the team either!.

Now I see some poster has just said, that unless you go to all the away games, then you are second class fan too, amazing!.

I''ll tell you all this, If you think like this, then IMO, you''re not a City fan at all, because no TRUE City fan, would think that of a fellow supporter!.

PS. Beds Canary: Why have you got a sparrow on a football, as your avatar image?.  

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Tremendous reply - I didn''t see you in the snow queueing for the European Tickets and you didn''t get trampled under the same horse that I did. Are you trying to insinuate that I don''t go to any gam...[/quote]

Laughing? Nobby, your attitude has envoked many emotions with me, but laughter is not one of them, sadness and anger are two though!.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]another post by 1st wizard about 1st Wizard. yawn yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz[/quote]

Another reply from Fillet, about Fillet, and his obsessive dislikes of my posts!. yawn yawn  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.       

[Evil Monkey 52]

Sweet baby Jesus and the orphans, will you listen to yourselves?!?!

No one has accused anyone else of being a second class supporter, no one has said that the views of people who weren''t at a game are rubbish - all has been said, and is perfectly true, is that people who have sat there at FCR and watched a game have a better insight into the performance than those who didn''t.

As someone else pointed out, its like trying to review an album without listening to it - you make assumptions.

But, as has already also been pointed out - and blatantly ignored by some - it is also a matter of opinion.  How many times have we asked people if they were at the same game as their opinions differ to ours so greatly?

Going to FCR week in, week out, and following the team up and down the country does make you a very good supporter, but doesn''t make your views any more valid than those who don''t (which includes me!). However, they will have a more informed opinion of what went on, than those of us who have sat and listened to Roy or whoever. That, my friends, is simple fact.

I''ve highlighted the key words for people who struggle to read long sentences...

Now stop snivelling and sniping about each other, and come and join an interesting discussion on the "where does the buck stop" thread because this one, frankly, has become boring.

I dare the lot of you to try to turn it into a grudge match against each other, because this Monkey is due to start using his Evil-ness! I was saving it for BBC''s 606, but if you lot don''t start behaving like adults.......

[Big Rob 0]

Spot on Evil Monkey, spot on! - Everyone have different circumstances which prevent us from supporting our team to the degree which they may like- be it financial, family, work or health. But at the end of the day we have 1 thing in common- We all support the best football team in the world, so no matter how much we put in, who cares lets just get on and get behind the lads the best we can and look forward to the celebrations at City Hall in May when all city fans can come together once more!!

- Wizard will you stop feeling so sorry for yourself. These sort of posts are really quite pathetic and it seems you are crying out for attention by posting them.

I really am sorry you are unable to attend games now but as you say you have been supporting the Canaries for over 30 years so for you to think you are a ''2nd class supporter'' is absurd.

Just carry on supporting the canaries the best way you can and you will do just fine.

[Trent Canary 0]

[quote]Sweet baby Jesus and the orphans, will you listen to yourselves?!?! No one has accused anyone else of being a second class supporter, no one has said that the views of people who weren''t at a game ar...[/quote]

Again, what I have been trying to say. Just put better

"Going to FCR week in, week out, and following the team up and down the country does make you a very good supporter, but doesn''t make your views any more valid than those who don''t (which includes me!). However, they will have a more informed opinion of what went on, than those of us who have sat and listened to Roy or whoever. That, my friends, is simple fact."

But anyway thats all from me on this topic, because I too am starting to think Wiz is just having us on!

[ronbol ronbol 0]

[quote]What has really got up my nose is the assumption by some (supporters?) that their view of a game is more valid than someone who listens to a good commentary and wasn''t there, I believe this is elitism...[/quote]

why 1st wizard,

I get fed up with supporters saying your not a supporter at all if you have this opinion or that opinion and it isn''t the same as mine. You use the word elitism and to be honest this sums you up. You think you have a better opinion than everybody else and we should all agree with the mighty wizard!
I go to watch Norwich City FC, not to agree with peoples opinions or fellow supporters.

You can not have a better view of the first three games if you were not attending, full stop! to even consider that you do is even more AMAZING!

[DTT 0]

1st wizard... your not a fan at all im afraid. unfortunatly nor am i. Having read a lot of things on forums over the years, ive discovered the criteria to make you an ncfc supporter. If you answer no to any of these questions, then im sorry, it doesn''t appear that your a true fan.

1)Did you go to stockport away on a cold tuesday night?
2)Do you have an away season ticket?
3)Do you have a home season ticket?
4)Have you missed less than 1 game in the last 5 years?
5)Do you sit in barclay block D or E?
6)Do you allways cheer after a game even if your disgusted with the performance?

theres probably a few more, but im maybe forgetting a few.
Even though i rarely miss a game i''ve been told im not a true fan, mainly due to me sitting in the river end at home games... which i find strange as ive been sitting there since before many of the ''barclay elite'' where born. I''ve been told im not a fan because i missed 2 home games last season... apparently the 300 mile round trip i made to the 17 meant nothing? or the fact that i gave my ticket for them 2 games to a young fan desperate to watch ncfc for the first time. I''ve been told im not a fan after turning up late for a game... silly me, i should have asked the police to scrape several people off the a14 a bit quicker shouldn''t i.

The bottom line is, everyone who supports ncfc is a real fan. no fan is ''better'' than another. sure, some of us may be more knowledgeable than others, and some may spend more money than others. BUT, dont ever forget, that going to games is NEVER synonymous with knowing what your talking about. i know plenty of people who never miss a game, but they honestly dont have a clue... equally so, i know many many people who very rarely go to games due to other commitments, but are some of the most knowledgeable people about ncfc ive ever met.
I go to every game, im a ''true fan''. Some of you go to no games... your still true fans. None of us are any different, we all support ncfc and we all want success for the team. However, not all of you on this forum are what i call fans. If you slate other people for not being as ''hardcore'' as you, then go away, your not the kind of people we want at carrow road. if you have a holier than thou attitude, then go home, we dont want you. If you go to all the games, then all well and good, good on you. but dont use that to try and make youself out to be better than anyone else.

you all need to come down a peg or 2, and start to show some respect. this forum is here for one reason and one reason only, to voice opinions about norwich city football club. NOT to try and prove that your opinion is more important than anyone elses, or to prove that your better than anyone else.

nuff said. Dicky and his following of losers.... just grow up and start supporting the team not your ego.

[Big Rob 0]

David T -

Probably one of the best posts i''ve read on here in ages. (especially point 5:whistling

[Evil Monkey 52]

I can''t believe you lot!

Go here: http://new.pinkun.com/forums/shwmessage.aspx?ForumID=63&MessageID=219344

And do as you''re told...

[Charlie 0]

Over the last  couple of years I have only ever read and not contributed to this site (Imessage on Wrath of the Barclay) but I have to say this to 1st Wizard:

YES SONNY, YOU ARE A SECOND CLASS SUPPORTER!

How can he rate the team when he watches 1 minute highlights?

I remember him labasting the Thorne signing. I believe this was a good but from Nige because we are getting a quality player at this level who stated that he was prepared to play backup and wait for his chance to shine. (know many other players that would say that?).

 I shall now bypass his postings and read comments from those that go to games rather than read about them in the paper.

[Plastic Scouser 0]

David-T:  Contender for post of the season...!

That said - is this thread the new cheesehead thread - 5 pages and going strong - I can feel the evil monkey stare turning my way so I''m off!!!!

[Evil Monkey 52]

Right, I warned you all!!!

Next time its a picture of me in my pants!!!

Still wanna keep bickering????

[Pete Raven 276]

That''s one scary stare...

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Over the last couple of years I have only ever read and not contributed to this site (Imessage on Wrath of the Barclay) but I have to say this to 1st Wizard: YES SONNY, YOU ARE A SECOND CLASS SUPPOR...[/quote]

How childish Bob Bob!.

Suit yourself pal, but the reason I expressed an opinion on Thorn is quite simple. even for you

I''ve seen him play ''live'' many, many times, have you?.

Now grow up!.

[NavMan 0]

Before I joined the Navy went to every home game not missing one

Joined the Navy and obviously could not get to all home games but attended the ones i could when home on weekend leave

Left Navy and now married with two young girls and got a job which operates shifts so obviously cannot get to all home games and not a season ticket holder and have to make do with a membership only getting allocated 5 games and getting tickets when available for any other games I can attend when not working

Does this make me a 1st class 2nd class or 3rd class supporter.

To be honest I don''t really care what others think I am.  To me I have been supporting them since i could walk and i am just a supporter whether i can go to the game, watch on tele or read about it.  So there. 

[YankeeCanary 0]

Exactly NavMan. Further, when I read opinions on here I would rather read input from people like you who are basically honest and know how to communicate what you think rather than some of the egoistic mutterings I have seen recently from some who conveyed a superior attitude in their writings because of the number of games they attend.

Once in a rare while I have looked at some of the hogwash that is uttered on Wrath Of the Barclay from those "regular match attendees". I''ve noticed a few of them "leaking" on to this wonderful site since the summer. I have no problem with that if their intention is to upgrade their ability to communicate, lose the bad language and superior attitude and, generally become more civilised. If they do not, I hope they "leak away" as fast as they arrived.

This forum has a healthy blend of supporters, both that attend and do not attend games, and my own view is that we''ve all made a contribution to make the site healthy with good opinions, bad ones, feisty battles and reconcilliation without any real bad will. May it long remain so.

[nobbyg 0]

I have no criminal record, I own my own house and car, I have a degree and a professional qualification, I am married and I have never harmed any small animals.  Can I stay on your board?

Or do I have to be over 40 years old with a propensity to argue?

 

Even I am bored of this thread and I have done so much (so little) to help it on its merry way.

The original point was about commenting on a game you haven''t seen.  I look forward to your player ratings from the Southampton game.

What are your thoughts on the album by up and comers Hard-Fi?

 

Propensity - now there is a grown up word.

[Mello Yello 2,314]

To be brutally honest, I only go to the games so I can go and get plastered afterwards....... My missus thinks that the matches are divided into 4 quarters, consisting of 120mins a quarter. Which allows me 14 pints of Guinness, 5 double Jack Daniel & cokes (diet), a KFC family sized bargain bucket, followed by a dribbling incoherent conversation and unsteady boogie with a portly middle-aged divorcee at Chicago''s, then, a standard refused entry into a Taxi for being abusive and projectile vomiting......

To finish, it''s a solo homeward meandering (roughly northward) along Magdalen St, with a mixed kebab pouch in my right hand, and chilli sauce trailing down one of my 3 chins...... Yep! I love being a 2nd class supporter.... Football? Pah! who really needs it?

"Shame they''re away this weekend though"   Mello ;~)

[Alex Harvey-Jones 0]

I don''t think any of us have the right to judge the level of each others support! We all support the same team in our own manner so lets unite around that fact rather than creating a division through the quality of our support! Having a season ticket doesn''t necessarily make you a die hard fan - a couple of seasons ago I had a season ticket at Northampton because they were my local team, my mate had a season ticket and I couldn''t get to Norwich regularly for games. I enjoyed watching Northampton play and cheered them on but I was by no means a committed Cobblers fan! Sometimes factors beyond our control influence the manner in which we are able to support NCFC but that does not question the validity of our support!

I agree that if you have seen games live then it is much easier to form your own personal opinion of how players have played but listening to the radio, reading match reports in the EDP and national papers, listening to Worthy''s thoughts and the thoughts of other fans can give you a very good idea!

Its up to individuals how they go about supporting Norwich and on what evidence they base their views. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and doesn''t necessarily have to agree with other peoples opinions - good grief this would be a very dull forum if we all agreed on everything! However people should respect others opinions, be prepared to listen to them and not judge!!!

[BedsCanary 0]

My final post on the subject because it''s becoming tiresome now...

Since when did being a football supporter make you a communist? There are better supporters than me and there are worse supporters than me.

"Supporter (n)

a person who contributes to the fulfillment of a need or furtherance of an effort or purpose."

Now, you''ve got Fred and Dave, two Norwich supporters.

Fred travels 100 miles to an away match on a cold Tuesday night in February spending in excess of 50 pounds on tickets and travel. He takes the day off work, leaves his family at home on their own for the evening and watches City get thumped by some second rate Division 1 side. Despite that, he will still go to the next game.

Dave sits at home and listens to Radio Norfolk.

The following day, Dave claims to be a better supporter than Fred. Hmm.

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

[quote]I don''t think any of us have the right to judge the level of each others support! We all support the same team in our own manner so lets unite around that fact rather than creating a division through ...[/quote]

AHHHHHGH. When did anyone question the level of support of anyone else? All that was said was that seeing games live gives one a better understanding of how they played rather than secondhand radio/newspapers etc. Many of us can''t get to games. It''s annoying, get used to it.

[NavMan 0]

Yeah but Dave may not be able to drive and have no job but with still a family to support - there is an argument and blind circumstances to everything. 

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]My final post on the subject because it''s becoming tiresome now... Since when did being a football supporter make you a communist? There are better supporters than me and there are worse supporters t...[/quote]

NURSE!.

 

[FatMan Fat 0]

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha

What began as a typical "tongue in cheek" post from Wiz has somehow degenerated into, amongst others - a philosophical discussion; an economic discussion; a political discussion; a discourse on social behaviour and even one poster trying to tell us which thread/site we should subscribe to 

I would suggest that Wiz is amazed that he achieved such a response and is falling over himself with glee

IMHO it matters not a dot where you live, if you attend home matches, away matches, reserve matches or spend every spare minute up at Colney when trying to define what level of supporter you are.

Any one who supports NCFC as their first team is a First Class Supporter, any one who doesn''t support NCFC as their first team is not - simple really