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Putney Canary

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  1. I agree Wings re needing a football man on the board, and have advocated it in other threads. The board did utilise Stringer when they hired Grant, I would like to see a permanent board position opened up for someone with a football pedigree.
  2. Mystic - I don''t have time right now to go back and check, but I remember seeing a discussion on here ages ago, questioning if the board had been reckless that season because our wages were so high. It was decided that we had a reduced income due to the lower capacity at the time. The whole discussion might have been based on rubbish, but at the weekend I will go back and check (as you have gone to the effort of finding the stats you quoted). I will also check back on the figures for average championship spend over the same time as that seems to be another bone of contention.We must also remember that the average figures are skewed by some clubs spending over 100% of their turnover on wages, most clubs are running at an operating loss, and we have a higher debt than average (by quite some margin).I''ll come back at the weekend.
  3. The correct answer is - nobody (including me) outside the club has a clue. Its evidence of absolutely nothing.For those STILL going on about non-footballing activities carried out by the club - show me ONE club of our size or bigger who doesn''t also do a lot of off field activities, and I will admit you have a point. Go on, name just ONE club.
  4. [quote user="Grumpy "]You have provided an in depth analysis of the Premiership and the people running the clubs.  Would it be right to sum up the new people moving into the game as no more than asset strippers?. With all the Sky money being pumped into the league and the new contract for the next few seasons. [/quote]Undoubtedly some are, look at the mess Derby were in, I believe the police are still trying to chase down money from some off-shore accounts. All those holding Derby up as some sort of proof showing Delia is wrong in her stance against outside investment should remember that - Derby is lucky at had so many wealthy fans willing to rescue them this time. Does Norwich? However, the likes of Glazer and Hicks will only get their investment realised by getting the Champions League money, they will not asset strip (at least not unless things do badly wrong, and remember how much debt Glazer has hoisted on Man U).Diznazza - the boom time hasn''t finished, the recent TV deal doubles the money. For now the future (at the top) looks rosy, but where there is boom, bust does always follow... And there are signs that many fans of mid-level Premiership clubs are staying away. 4-1-4-1 formations aren''t exactly thrilling, are they? But the stakes are so high these days... I''ve stopped tuning in to games like Bolton vs Middlesburgh, just too dull and predictable.Ricardo - I believe with the higher parachute payments now on offer, it is already becoming a closed league. Additionally look at some of the money being pumped into Championship teams right now, soon you will need 40m just to get promotion. The financial gap was huge when we went up, its just doubled. Sorry for going on but this is a raw subject for me. Thanks EM for starting the thread and doing the research!
  5. [quote user="Smudger"]Have you forgotten that myself and Wiz are clairvoyants MYSTIC... nothing has happened yet and nothing that is going to make us serious play-off contenders is going to happen either...  I can see it in my balls MYSTIC!!!  [;)] [/quote]Ah yes, so "we will get relegated" and "We won''t get any new investors on the board whilst Delia is still there" show off your clairvoyant powers smudger? Don''t give up the day job... ;-)I''m also getting tired of the words, we need action. Undoubtedly its silly season in the footballing press, and anything anybody hints at saying will make back page headlines, but we NEED more players of the right quality to sign. Nothing is done until the contract is signed.
  6. I think Bly is talking a lot of sense. Whilst I would love us to keep Earnie, I am coming round to the idea that if we *can* get 5m for him, we should sell, sell, sell. But that is taking into account that Fulham only bid 3.5m for Kamara.
  7. I agree, we need at least one more in. Never mind relacing Fleming, we haven''t replaced Malky yet...
  8. [quote user="Smudger"] If you were responding to a comment which I made on another thread PUTNEY then why did you not just post a reply on said thread instead of confusing matters by spreading your views on a certain subject over many threads (or even starting new ones)?  I only ask as this appears to be a tactic frequently used by those who choose to defend the board and does you no favours when it comes to the miserable disgruntled fans brigade taking your posts at face value. [/quote]As I said in my post I thought I WAS responding on another thread. As it happens you put similar but conflicting messages on two seperate threads (so why you are accusing me of being confusing beats me). As for you commenting on spreading views over multiple threads, er, what exactly is your point? I try not to hijack a thread to get a personal point across, I respond to points others make. All I am doing is putting my point of view in as logical, factual way as I can. I have no interest in being in a ''Delia Lovers'' or ''Delia Haters'' camp, I have no interest in using ''tactics'' to try and ''win'' an argument. For heavens sake Smudger this is an internet message board, it has no importance in the real world. I enjoy reading people''s views (when made clearly and without insults to others) and by using the board I feel connected to the club I love, even though I live on the other side of the planet. Maybe you need to get things back in proportion...
  9. Whilst I am optimistic for our own club I am pessimistic about the long term outlook for the game. I''m afraid this investment will only aid some bad trends in the game;- Pricing out of the traditional fan as ticket prices rise- resulting in worse atmospheres in the grounds- resulting in the average age of supporters in the ground continuing to rise, where is the next generation of fan coming from?- More kick-off rescheduling as less games are played at 3pm on a Saturday, to enable more live games to be shown around the world- Continuing trend of Premiership clubs buying all the young talent, meaning the young English players trying to break through will get less first team experience- and this will continue to have a detrimental knock-on effect on the England squad- More money = higher wages throught the League which will make it MORE difficult for lower leagues to build decent teams- More clubs getting in financial strife trying to gain or retain Premiership status - now the upsides money wise are so much greater, more risks will be taken and even more clubs will go down- More and more defensive strategies, as clubs try and avoid relegation at all costs. More dull games.- More players just in it for the money, and couldn''t care less about the club or the fans- Norwich will become even less likely to ever top the Premiership again, or make a Wembley cup final (FA / League cup or Europe).- Longer term, the period of boom-time will come to an end and the bust cycle will come in, as it ALWAYS does in all walks of life. Then we will see clubs seriously suffer. The only way the financially motivated investors will get their money back is by catering for the international TV audience, and marketing ''the theatre of dreams'' and obviously merchandise to them. The local fans are becoming marginalised because more money comes in from overseas. It is all becoming about marketing / merchandising / money.Remember the outcry when Glazer bought Man U? How people disdainfully said Wigan bought promotion? Why has this all been accepted so quickly by most people?
  10. [quote user="Mr.Carrow"]The figures quoted in the accounts are not assumptions Putney, they are facts. And that is what i base my opinion on. I also base it on the events of the last few seasons when we HAVE made a large profit in the transfer market whilst the squad has been weak and struggling and we have been benefiting from £7.1million per season parachute payments. Those payments have now ended but we have gained a £2million loan which according to the club means we are not forced to sell anyone, so the balance of probability would so far indicate that we won`t have much leeway in the transfer market and that we will make a big profit on Earnshaw and spend around half of it-as we did with Ashton, Francis, Green etc. There are hopes and rumours that there may be more to the new investment than meets the eye but i base my opinion on reality, not hopes and rumours. I don`t know where you get the information that we pay wages above the average but the recent Deloitte and Touche report stated that Championship clubs pay an average of 72% of turnover on overall wages. Our turnover last year was about £25million and overall wages about £15million which puts us below the average. Its all in the accounts if you want to check. If you don`t have them i can give you a rundown and maybe we can have a more informed debate. [/quote]I remember seeing figures that average total Championship wages bill (two seasons ago if I remember right) were 4.1m, ours was more than double that. An example of were we are both quoting stats without FULLY understanding the actual impact on the accounts. In the promotion season wasn''t our wage bill nearer 92%? We need to look at figures over time, and also remember that a financial year snapshot does not mirror the football season reality. Also remember that I''m not trying to make out that our board are being extravagent on wages, just that I don''t believe we are being as tight as some would make out.As for the investment, yes it is based on hopes and rumours, and also the thought that our board wouldn''t have ''sold'' two seats on the board for 2m only. That I would be angry about.CJF We talked about Derby on another thread. They are an example of a club that got large local investment and made it work. Well done to their board and the whole club. Nobody is trying to deny this or hide from it.
  11. Of course it would all depend on the terms of the relative contracts. I would expect us to see a majority of any fee re-invested but not necessarily this summer, it would all depend on so many factors such as the timing of deals, how much we actually want to let Earnie go, how much over/under our own valuation we might get, the nature of add-ons etc. Sorry if I wasn''t clear. In my mind I was responding to another post on another thread Smudger made, where he was saying the board should spend all 5m of our hypothetical fee for Earnie this summer. This is obviously unlikely.
  12. [quote user="Mr.Carrow"]I am not interpreting the facts about the overall profits made, the profit made on players, the low squad number in comparison to our rivals,the amount wasted in tax or spent on infrastructure, the lower than average wage bill etc. I don`t have to, they speak for themselves. Believe it or not, given the facts above, some people foresaw the current situation at Carrow Rd developing. I don`t suppose any of us are happy to be proved right but it seems that the people who refused to see it then still refuse to see it now and in all probability will stick to their guns should we be relegated next season. Quite amazing really. [/quote]You are making assumptions, you don''t know exactly when money comes in, you don''t know what is currently planned with the money we do have, you don''t know anything about the day to day cash flow, cash forecast or any other numbers of facts you would need to see how any business is faring in reality. You are taking headline figures and working out for yourself if it means the board have ambition or not. I would take the larger than average wage bill, the new investors on board, and the investment in the infrastructure in the bones of the football club whilst preparing to lose parachute payments as signs that the board DO have ambition. However, we do know enough so that I do have simpathy with your view and as I have stated before I don''t believe the board has achieved the right balance yet. I just don''t think its as negative as some paint on here, and I am confident for the short, medium and long term  fortunes of Norwich City. I have stated on other threads I expect to see positive signs this summer and I don''t mind being quoted on that come the end of August.
  13. I agree with much that has been said. Additionally, I would like to see; - A decent left back who can compete with / cover for Drury, so we don''t have to move Lappin back if Drury is injured. I''m sick of a match winning team getting changed because of injury, resulting in changes to other parts of the pitch because the squad is too small and unbalanced. - A good defensive midfielder, to break up attacks. We haven''t effectively replaced Holty yet - A central defensive leader. Someone who will help hold the defense together especially in the last few minutes of a game. We haven''t effectively replaced Malky yet. - Someone who is captain material. First name on the team sheet (so can''t be Dublin at his age), leads by example (so can''t be Hucks!) and vocal with it (Drury out). It could be the defensive midfielder or one of the defenders mentioned above, but we don''t have him at the club yet. So, David Marshall in goal, one centre back, a left back, a right back, two central midfielders one defensive one an excellent passer, and possibly another striker (BEFORE taking into account any players to go). I doubt we can get all 7 effectively over the summer, I would be happy if we get 5 of those. Oh and not loans, I want mainly younger players (with a couple of experienced heads in there) whose value will grow.
  14. [quote user="1st Wizard"] [quote user="Putney Canary"] Wiz, do you honestly think that Cureton would be a suitable replacement for Earnie? Er, I think I would rather have our potty woman than a potty Wizard... [/quote] His 23/24 Championship goals last season would seem to back me up Putney, yes?. [/quote] Cureton is 32, and has had one good season and 2 or 3 decent seasons under his belt in League 1 and Championship. Earnie is 26 and consistently bangs in the goals at this level and higher. Earnie is being touted as a 5m striker, Cureton wouldn''t fetch more than a few hundred thousand at most, surely. I love him for the hair stunt vs Ipswich, but as a replacement for Earnie? No way!
  15. [quote user="mystic megson"] Negativity seems to cause some posters real anxiety.  They appear to believe that relentless positive thinking, in the face of all evidence to the contrary, will somehow make things better.  Therefore people who point out the negatives are undermining their project. Relax folks.  It doesn''t matter how positive or negative you are, it won''t make the situation at the club either better or worse.  The most important thing is to be true to what you believe and call it as you see it.   [/quote] Mystic, its not negativity that winds people up, its people taking an extreme view, being unable to back up that view, and resorting to calling people sheep etc when their extreme view is challenged. Without people holding different opinions, there would be no point to any message board. This board has always had argument and disagreement (I lurked long before I joined) however the levels of rudeness these days can be breathtaking.
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