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[nutty nigel 7,607]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

As with Worthy the man had to be virtually dehumanised to make his critics comfortable with the level of abuse they wanted to give him.

[/quote]It comes from frustration that Delia & co would not sack their friend. All those Morston dinners meant even when it was clear to all he was well past his sell by date, Nigel Worthington remained at the club.This showed yet again that everyone is human, and just because someone is in a particular position does not mean they are doing a good job or always make decisions for the right reasons.[/quote]

 

It comes from frustration which makes it acceptable how?

[/quote]You tell me, I have seen Hughton outers de-humanised by some on these message boards.  Look at T''s comments today.  Personally I don''t like the insults to the managers themselves.  Call the manager negative or incompetent, fine. The rest, not so. Managers are after all, only doing a job, albeit an extremely well paid one.  Who would walk away from a large payout?  It is not their position to sack themselves.The reason Nigel wasn''t sacked for so long had nothing to do with performances.  Key friendships within the club and its backers were lost when Delia and co failed to remove their good friend Nigel Worthington from his position.[/quote]

 

I think if I''d been the club''s owner I''d probably have been good friends with Worthy. He''s a good honest likeable chap who was responsible for some extremely happy times you know[:P]

 

Whether executive directors should get close to the staff is of course a different matter.

 

 

[Duncan Edwards 2,261]

He played 26 won 6 drew 7 and lost 13. 25pts. Using his current ppg ratio he would finish a whole season on 36 points. I''d love that ATM. Unbeaten in half his games? Is it that bad?

His record including cup is 34.29. Looking at the overall picture of the job he''s done, reads pretty well. There''s no denying that they have had two fantastic cup runs and a trip to Wembley that the fans will never forget.

Has the cup affected them? Course it has. Did di canio affect sunderlands season? Of course. He had 2 months with a fragile squad, turned them around and they still stand an outside chance of staying up. It''s no coincidence that Sunderland fans love him, regardless of his %''s.

People that look at the black and white of the league position are a bit narrow minded. After all......we finished 11th last yr and that was deemed as progress [:0]

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Cup games? Excuses, just like squad fragility and injuries.

When Hughton was sacked his ppg ratio for this season would have seen us finish the season on 37 points (36.85). Any turnaround seems to have taken place "on the spot" as they remain bottom of the league and haven''t won a league fixture since February 1st.

That run of form, his win% and his ppg ratio ALL suggests to me that Poyet''s record is untenable, by your standards, for a Premier League manager.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Pauls Ferry"]That run of form, his win% and his ppg ratio ALL suggests to me that Poyet''s record is untenable, by your standards, for a Premier League manager.[/quote]A different situation than us, Poyet took over a club with one point from 7 games.  Hughton took over a side finishing 12th, and has been in charge for 2 seasons with the benefit of two close seasons. Not that I think Poyet is impressing at Sunderland, but some context should be added here.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Pauls Ferry"]That run of form, his win% and his ppg ratio ALL suggests to me that Poyet''s record is untenable, by your standards, for a Premier League manager.[/quote]I just looked up the stats...Poyet took over a club in 20th with nine points from 12 games.  Hughton took over a side finishing 12th, and has been in charge for 2 seasons with the benefit of two close seasons. Not that I think Poyet is impressing at Sunderland, but some context should be added here.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I think if I''d been the club''s owner I''d probably have been good friends with Worthy. He''s a good honest likeable chap who was responsible for some extremely happy times you know [:P]

Whether executive directors should get close to the staff is of course a different matter.

[/quote]You won''t find any disagreement from me.  The vast majority of Nigel Worthington''s tenure was a great time to be a supporter of the club.  Just a shame it went so sour at the end.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I think if I''d been the club''s owner I''d probably have been good friends with Worthy. He''s a good honest likeable chap who was responsible for some extremely happy times you know [:P]

Whether executive directors should get close to the staff is of course a different matter.

[/quote]

You won''t find any disagreement from me.  The vast majority of Nigel Worthington''s tenure was a great time to be a supporter of the club.  Just a shame it went so sour at the end.
[/quote]

The same could be said of the great times under Brown, Stringer and Walker. Now they did give us some great football.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,092]

"He played 26 won 6 drew 7 and lost 13. 25pts. Using his current ppg ratio he would finish a whole season on 36 points. I''d love that ATM. Unbeaten in half his games? Is it that bad?"

You cant really use a ppg ratio that excludes games against the top 4 and then extrapolate from it a projected level of performance against those top clubs. Adams wont reach 36 points, but its seriously misguided to suggest thats what Hughton was on course to achieve using that as a rationale

[nutty nigel 7,607]

[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I think if I''d been the club''s owner I''d probably have been good friends with Worthy. He''s a good honest likeable chap who was responsible for some extremely happy times you know [:P]

Whether executive directors should get close to the staff is of course a different matter.

[/quote]You won''t find any disagreement from me.  The vast majority of Nigel Worthington''s tenure was a great time to be a supporter of the club.  Just a shame it went so sour at the end.[/quote]

The same could be said of the great times under Brown, Stringer and Walker. Now they did give us some great football.

[/quote]

 

Indeed they did. But the difference was that those three followed and carried on the great times under Saunders and then Bond. Worthy brought great times to a generation of fans who''d endured years of dross since yer buddy big bad Bob wrecked that legacy.....

 

Worthy didn''t deserve the dogs abuse he got did he?

 

 

[can u sit down please 0]

Spot in TGMD.

Hy do Sunderland fans like him so much?

Incidentally he took over after 7 games and they had 1 point. To still have an outside chance of staying up isn''t a poor job.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Worthy didn''t deserve the dogs abuse he got did he?

[/quote]Nope, certainly not. Although I agree entirely with the Worthy Out chanting.  It was a sorry state of affairs when our ambiton-free board refused to sack their friend.

[T 190]

Context on here? 20m debt repayments in previous 2 seasons and 18th/19th highest wage bill. That''s context, thats not condescension - it''s the complete failure to recognise reality. Fans consistently overestimate their side and people think they know more than do. They ascribe being right to their own skill and failure to other people''s mistakes. If people could grasp probability then the lottery would not exist. You only have to look at the way people talk about private investment in shares and the way they think they know more than the market - there is no way you can beat the mkt unless you have inside knowledge and how done extensive due diligence and performed a valuation -Its the same with punters commenting on football. These are all classic human cognitive failures. Its basic stuff which people like Ricardo grasp. Its a sad reflection on the low quality of the education system otherwise we would not having the same debate on here every week. I''ve no problem with people saying they don''t like the style of play but abusing people for something that you can''t do yourself is out of order unless the few hundred professionally qualified football coaches happen to be on here. Name one manager who has consistently significantly outperformed his budget for a long period of time -there isn''t one so to be abusive to someone that neither the critic or others can do is sick.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I think if I''d been the club''s owner I''d probably have been good friends with Worthy. He''s a good honest likeable chap who was responsible for some extremely happy times you know [:P]

Whether executive directors should get close to the staff is of course a different matter.

[/quote]

You won''t find any disagreement from me.  The vast majority of Nigel Worthington''s tenure was a great time to be a supporter of the club.  Just a shame it went so sour at the end.
[/quote]

The same could be said of the great times under Brown, Stringer and Walker. Now they did give us some great football.

[/quote]

 

Indeed they did. But the difference was that those three followed and carried on the great times under Saunders and then Bond. Worthy brought great times to a generation of fans who''d endured years of dross since yer buddy big bad Bob wrecked that legacy.....

 

Worthy didn''t deserve the dogs abuse he got did he?

 

 

[/quote]

I thought I had made it VERY plain he was never "my buddy" as you keep infering.

All I have ever said was we had some great football times when he was chairman that keep getting glossed(or Gossed) over.

Also I was never part of the Worthy out gang.

Agree he should have been replaced sooner, that most fans could see, but abuse is no answer to anything. Don''t you agree?

[Duncan Edwards 2,261]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]"He played 26 won 6 drew 7 and lost 13. 25pts. Using his current ppg ratio he would finish a whole season on 36 points. I''d love that ATM. Unbeaten in half his games? Is it that bad?"

You cant really use a ppg ratio that excludes games against the top 4 and then extrapolate from it a projected level of performance against those top clubs. Adams wont reach 36 points, but its seriously misguided to suggest thats what Hughton was on course to achieve using that as a rationale[/quote]

Why is it any more misguided than using it to project Sunderland''s points tally?

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="T"]Context on here? 20m debt repayments in previous 2 seasons and 18th/19th highest wage bill. That''s context, thats not condescension - it''s the complete failure to recognise reality. Fans consistently overestimate their side and people think they know more than do. They ascribe being right to their own skill and failure to other people''s mistakes. If people could grasp probability then the lottery would not exist. You only have to look at the way people talk about private investment in shares and the way they think they know more than the market - there is no way you can beat the mkt unless you have inside knowledge and how done extensive due diligence and performed a valuation -Its the same with punters commenting on football. These are all classic human cognitive failures. Its basic stuff which people like Ricardo grasp. Its a sad reflection on the low quality of the education system otherwise we would not having the same debate on here every week. I''ve no problem with people saying they don''t like the style of play but abusing people for something that you can''t do yourself is out of order unless the few hundred professionally qualified football coaches happen to be on here. Name one manager who has consistently significantly outperformed his budget for a long period of time -there isn''t one so to be abusive to someone that neither the critic or others can do is sick.[/quote]

T if you are going to make pompous statements and bring "education" into the argument, at least check your spelling and punctuation or YC will be on your case.[:D]

It is very difficult to look at Managers long term performance as very few last any length of time to prove or disprove that theory!

Your abuse comment is very true and more reflects football holding a mirror to society and the way general behaviour has declined. Social media and the use of this type of forum alows people to vent feelings to excess, something they would be unlikely to do "face to face"

Probabilty means the odds of winning are very long, HOPE is that JUST this once it might be your day and hope is what makes this life a little more bearable for many many people.

So lets hope for a good result Sunday  however long the odds OTBC

[nutty nigel 7,607]

[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Indeed they did. But the difference was that those three followed and carried

on the great times under Saunders and then Bond. Worthy brought great times to a

generation of fans who''d endured years of dross since yer buddy big bad Bob

wrecked that legacy.....

 

Worthy didn''t deserve the dogs abuse he got did he?

 

 

[/quote]

I thought I had made it VERY plain he was never "my buddy" as you keep

infering.

All I have ever said was we had some great football times when he was

chairman that keep getting glossed(or Gossed) over.

Also I was never part of the Worthy out gang.

Agree he should have been replaced sooner, that most fans could see, but

abuse is no answer to anything. Don''t you agree?

[/quote]

 

That''s another reflection of today''s society - no loyalty! You wash your

hands of big bad Bob and hang him out to dry[;)]

 

 

[quote user="The Butler"]

Your abuse comment is very true and more reflects football holding a mirror

to society and the way general behaviour has declined. Social media and the use

of this type of forum alows people to vent feelings to excess, something they

would be unlikely to do "face to face"

[/quote]

 

The only thing social media has done is record it to a wider audience. Or

don''t you remember the dogs abuse that Geoffrey Watling received in the

60s[:^)]

 

 

 

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="T"]These are all classic human cognitive failures. [/quote]You really are a pompous tw@t!Using your own dubious reasoning, clearly the board are better qualified to make such a judgement that yourself, and so deemed Hughton as past his sell by date. Everything else is irrelevant.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="T"]Name one manager who has consistently significantly outperformed his budget for a long period of time -there isn''t one so to be abusive to someone that neither the critic or others can do is sick.[/quote]That is not the point.  The point is, when a manager is underperforming with his budget and squad it is often time for a change.  I don''t agree with the non football related abuse.  But to call Hughton''s management negative, cautious, dull and ambition free is to state a fact.

[T 190]

Stats, probability and decision theory should be taught in school so that people are more aware and make better decisions. I really can''t be bothered to proof - it''s a football message board not work. People are perfectly entitled to their views but ideally there should be some humility about those views and what I really object to the unnecessary abuse of club, players and managers which are what my comments are really aimed at - I suspect though it is partly a function of social media which encourages people to express views they would not do in person. As I''ve said before I would probably have made a change - it''s a thankless task managing a lower premier league club and does not warrant abuse. I just hope we sneak a result at some point but as we have been in the second tier most of my life that is where I expect us to most of the time regardless of mgr.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Classic Norfolk low expectations post.

Dare to dream my man and be an eagle instead of a chicken.

[TIL 1010 4,789]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

 

That''s another reflection of today''s society - no loyalty! You wash your hands of big bad Bob and hang him out to dry[;)]

 

[/quote]

 

Hardly surprising now is it Nutty. This is Easter after all so we should be getting two more denials sometime very soon. [;)]

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

 

That''s another reflection of today''s society - no loyalty! You wash your hands of big bad Bob and hang him out to dry[;)]

 

[/quote]

 

Hardly surprising now is it Nutty. This is Easter after all so we should be getting two more denials sometime very soon. [;)]

[/quote]

I see the antibiotics you had didn''t remove all the poison Tilly.

Keep up the good work chaps and eventually you might believe what you post  but then again maybe not.

[TIL 1010 4,789]

Believe me Butler I know more about big bad Bob than you think right back to the days when he borrowed money from a bank to buy his way into Norwich City and before you jump the gun it was not Barclays but I actually know the man who lent it to him who says it was the worst days work he ever did. Best I not say anymore at present as I expect one of the brothers Grimm will be along shortly as a character witness when he is alerted that your hero is being mentioned. 

 

[Duncan Edwards 2,261]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Believe me Butler I know more about big bad Bob than you think right back to the days when he borrowed money from a bank to buy his way into Norwich City and before you jump the gun it was not Barclays but I actually know the man who lent it to him who says it was the worst days work he ever did. Best I not say anymore at present as I expect one of the brothers Grimm will be along shortly as a character witness when he is alerted that your hero is being mentioned. 

 

[/quote]

Well done for not responding to that nasty jibe about your illness Til1010, disgraceful.

[TIL 1010 4,789]

[quote user="Pauls Ferry"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

 

 

[/quote] Well done for not responding to that nasty jibe about your illness Til1010, disgraceful.[/quote]

Thanks for that Paul. The antibiotics I took were for a lung infection nothing poisonous like a gangrene leg or such like.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Believe me Butler I know more about big bad Bob than you think right back to the days when he borrowed money from a bank to buy his way into Norwich City and before you jump the gun it was not Barclays but I actually know the man who lent it to him who says it was the worst days work he ever did. Best I not say anymore at present as I expect one of the brothers Grimm will be along shortly as a character witness when he is alerted that your hero is being mentioned. 

 

[/quote]

Any reason you and your mate Nutty have tried to resurrect the old argument again, or just the usual mischief making.

I thought one of the "regulations" of this site was keeping to threads but I don''t suppose they relate to you .

By the way if he borrowed money from a bank and that bank manager divulged the fact then that would be a breach of all sorts of regulations.

As its 25 years plus ago I don''t suppose anyone is that interested now.

So what''s your opinion of Palace/Pullis then?

Should we have got rid if CH earlier?

Do you like the football we have played?

Will we be relegated?

All topical issues and far more relevant don''t you think.

 

 

[crabbycanary 2]

Come on Butler, don''t try and get pedantic.

I would say more threads than not change direction on this Board. It''s only when it gets personal that the ''rules'' apply.

If Tilly had started another thread, purely about this, would that have satisfied you, and would you have responded to it?

Perhaps a new thread could be started on this then, as it sounds very interesting and is extremely relevant to NCFC''s history. What do you say Tilly?

[Herman 9,820]

Oh God no. Please not a thread about Bob bloody Chase[:''(]

[crabbycanary 2]

Ah goarrnnn!

[TIL 1010 4,789]

[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

Believe me Butler I know more about big bad Bob than you think right back to the days when he borrowed money from a bank to buy his way into Norwich City and before you jump the gun it was not Barclays but I actually know the man who lent it to him who says it was the worst days work he ever did. Best I not say anymore at present as I expect one of the brothers Grimm will be along shortly as a character witness when he is alerted that your hero is being mentioned. 

 

[/quote]

Any reason you and your mate Nutty have tried to resurrect the old argument again, or just the usual mischief making.

I thought one of the "regulations" of this site was keeping to threads but I don''t suppose they relate to you .

By the way if he borrowed money from a bank and that bank manager divulged the fact then that would be a breach of all sorts of regulations.

As its 25 years plus ago I don''t suppose anyone is that interested now.

So what''s your opinion of Palace/Pullis then?

Should we have got rid if CH earlier?

Do you like the football we have played?

Will we be relegated?

All topical issues and far more relevant don''t you think.

 

 

[/quote]

Sorry I was unable to respond to your latest post at silly o''clock during the night Butler [:D] and I am sorry my Easter joke did not meet with your approval but hey those of us with long memories remember posting history and the bile and dogs abuse dished out by some. Maybe forum rules only apply if such abuse is dished out to fellow posters and not managers or directors. What do you reckon ?

In answer to your questions............

Hindsight is an exact science and I would not have wanted Pulis anywhere near NCFC in recent seasons but his marriage with Palace seems to be the stuff of dreams and along with Martinez at Everton they are obviously the Premier League success stories of this season.

As far as Hughton is concerned my  mind was made up after the Cardiff home game when he was outwitted by a poor Cardiff side and manager and to that end I made two £50 bets with fellow posters after the game in the Nelson that we would get relegated under Hughton.

The football has been shocking except for a mere handful of games.It has been devoid of everything I expect to see of any team let alone my team and that is the responsibility of the manager and his assistants in my book. Awful tactics, poor use of subs, no plan, wrong team selection on numerous occasions, no B etc.

Your last question please see answer 2.

 

 

[Crafty Canary 497]

You can always rely on the Nelson gang for a bit of ''invention'' to stir things up.

The first annual Nelson Numpties awards will be coming soon. Who will be on the red carpet in hopeful anticipation of receiving one of these soon to be prestigious awards?