Palace

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]nutty nigel: I don''t know why people think route one is negative. It maybe unpopular. But getting the ball into the opponents penalty box ASAP could hardly be negative.

It is certainly not a tactic we used under Chris Hughton. Hughton never really diverted from his original game-plan, no matter what was happening during the match.[/quote]

 

It was Juggy''s comment about Wimbledon. I''ve already sent you to him once Foggy!!

 

 

[Making Plans 936]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]Hughton never really diverted from his original game-plan, no matter what was happening during the match.[/quote]Exactly, and the writing was on the wall as early as the game at Hull. We went there with a game plan, maybe nick a win but don''t lose. Fair enough.However, when Hull went one goal up and then down to 10 men with over an hour of play left, nothing changed in our aspirations one jot.One sub was made at half time & it took another 20 minutes before the next one.At no time during that match did we seriously look like getting anything from it.Alarm bells should have been ringing all around CR after that but we just carried on regardless hoping that things might get better. They didn''t.

[Highland Canary 76]

Of course they were Making Plans - the away fans have known it since Reading A. The home fans should have known it at least since Newcastle last season.

Our worst fears were realised at Hull. Same approach. Same outcome. Same failure. The management team should have been changed last Summer. Our inaction has cost us our PL spot - at the start of last season I suspect that most of us would have expected to finish above the three promoted teams. That is the scale of our failure.

[Herman 9,756]

Hughton has been sacked, you do realise that, don''t you?

[Highland Canary 76]

The issue is that unfortunately that decision was made far too late Herman.

[Herman 9,756]

Too late, yes. When was the right time? Along the lines of what Purple has said, you could ask many City fans this and get loads of different answers.

P.s  Would you have wanted Pulis if we had have sacked Hughton when you wanted him gone?

[Highland Canary 76]

To be frank Herman, yes. We have been in gradual decline for 18 months. The play for the draw mentality, tactical inflexibility and general negativity was always likely to end in relegation this season. At least Pullis had a CV that would likely have secured continual PL survival. So Pullis promised uninteresting football and survival. Our previous management team promised uninteresting football and relegation. And then, perhaps, over a number of years we might have got the money together to develop the stadium. All these possibilities lost through inaction.

[T 190]

This message board is a comical illustration of human cognitive failure -when people don''t like something then they have to blame someone rather than deal with reality. I suspect this is even more prevalent in Norfolk.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

[quote user="T"]This message board is a comical illustration of human cognitive failure -when people don''t like something then they have to blame someone rather than deal with reality. I suspect this is even more prevalent in Norfolk.[/quote]

 

T; your sentence makes no sense. What has blame got to do with cognitive failure? If you to attempt to take some form of intellectual high ground , you should at least give us some referencing to help us? We are but simple football supporters .

[Herman 9,756]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]To be frank Herman, yes. We have been in gradual decline for 18 months. Extremely gradual decline.  The play for the draw mentality, tactical inflexibility and general negativity was always likely to end in relegation this season. At least Pullis had a CV that would likely have secured continual PL survival. So Pullis promised uninteresting football and survival. Our previous management team promised uninteresting football and relegation. And then, perhaps, over a number of years we might have got the money together to develop the stadium. All these possibilities lost through inaction.[/quote]

Ignore what Pulis has done this season with Palace. Now pretend we had sacked Hughton after the Man City win last season. If the club then announced, pre pre-season, that Pulis was to be our new manager would you HONESTLY have been happy about it?

[Highland Canary 76]

He wouldn''t have been my first choice Herman - that was Poyet at the time!

[T 190]

Just read up about perception problems with heuristic decision making -basically humans have a number of perception biases for coping with the complexity of reality which distorts their perception of reality - it''s really just commonsense - there are loads of examples of this reality perception failure on here everyday - when you are aware of this then it becomes painful apparent that humans are not very good at understanding or coping with reality. Blaming one person is a classic example of human failure to grasp and cope with reality. Focusing on recent and near events rather than the big picture is another reality perception failure that we see on here everyday. Its both sad and comical.

[Highland Canary 76]

How does this differ from cognitive dissonance?

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="T"]Just read up about perception problems with heuristic decision making -basically humans have a number of perception biases for coping with the complexity of reality which distorts their perception of reality - it''s really just commonsense - there are loads of examples of this reality perception failure on here everyday - when you are aware of this then it becomes painful apparent that humans are not very good at understanding or coping with reality. Blaming one person is a classic example of human failure to grasp and cope with reality. Focusing on recent and near events rather than the big picture is another reality perception failure that we see on here everyday. Its both sad and comical.[/quote]Surely the slow decline of results under Hughton is not focusing on recent and near events.  Each half season under Hughton was worse than the one preceding it.But just to add, your opinion that a manager has little or no impact over results is comical. 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Herman "]

Ignore what Pulis has done this season with Palace. Now pretend we had sacked Hughton after the Man City win last season. If the club then announced, pre pre-season, that Pulis was to be our new manager would you HONESTLY have been happy about it?

[/quote]I can''t say I would have been too happy with Pulis, but am willing to give any manager given the job a chance.  If the results come I am always ready to concede I was wrong.  I wasn''t overly pleased about Adams, Gunn, or Grant.  None would have been my first choice by any stretch.  Roeder and Hughton I could see the logic behind even if I wasn''t over-enthusiastic.  Given who they were replacing, with Lambert and Worthington it was a case of anyone who wasn''t the incumbent would do.

[T 190]

I have never said that. Only that mgr impact is only 10 to 15 PC of the points that a club gets. Read this message board and their is more than a 10 to 15pc focus on the mgr.

[T 190]

...and if you don''t believe that people focus too much on recent events then just compare this message after we win and lose. Just see how many on here think they know about football than the manager. All classic human perception failures just as people are dismissive or abusive of a concept which they can''t comprehend. The responses are comical as they just confirm the point.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="T"]...and if you don''t believe that people focus too much on recent events then just compare this message after we win and lose. Just see how many on here think they know about football than the manager. All classic human perception failures just as people are dismissive or abusive of a concept which they can''t comprehend. The responses are comical as they just confirm the point.[/quote]Just because someone is a manager does not mean they are making the correct choices in signing players, tactics, or indeed anything.I agree there is a tendancy for the message board to fill with positive or negative posts after we win or lose.  But you will have noted but ignored the fact for the vast majority this does not change their opinion of the manager. Most will have come to any decision over a much larger stretch of time. A single result is just used as evidence to support the already held view.As we all know you thought Hughton was doing a great job with our team, the lowest scorers in the Premiership, I think we can take your condescending tone with a very large pinch of salt.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

[quote user="T"]Just read up about perception problems with heuristic decision making -basically humans have a number of perception biases for coping with the complexity of reality which distorts their perception of reality - it''s really just commonsense - there are loads of examples of this reality perception failure on here everyday - when you are aware of this then it becomes painful apparent that humans are not very good at understanding or coping with reality. Blaming one person is a classic example of human failure to grasp and cope with reality. Focusing on recent and near events rather than the big picture is another reality perception failure that we see on here everyday. Its both sad and comical.[/quote]

 

 

You are suggesting that blame is a result of cognitive failure .  It isn''t . Further, Perception has nothing to do with cognitive failure. Perception is only that of the persons ability to perceive. Blame isnt a failure to cope , merely an adaptation to that persons opinion of the time.

 

And if you want to begin to contemplate issues like "reality", you might want to start with Bhasker, and his work on Critical Realism. 

 

Simply disagreeing with drivel isn''t quite the same thing  .

[T 190]

He did a great job last season and a par job this season. Just one quoting one stat is another classic example of not grasping reality. The amount of ignorance and abuse on this message board fully deserves the contempt it gets. It seems people can give it out but can''t take. Basically 7 mgrs have left their job and that the average mgr tenure is so low which implies being a mgr is a nigh impossible task. Comical due the amount of abuse CH took for being negative when you look at Hughes, Allardyce, Bruce and Pulis - abused for failing to do what no one else has done. This message board is certainly not human nature at its best.

[T 190]

If people did not have a cognitive failure to grasp reality then they would not blame as much as they do but recognise and accept that reality.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

That last bit has come as a bit of a shock to me!

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="T"]He did a great job last season and a par job this season. Just one quoting one stat is another classic example of not grasping reality. The amount of ignorance and abuse on this message board fully deserves the contempt it gets. It seems people can give it out but can''t take. Basically 7 mgrs have left their job and that the average mgr tenure is so low which implies being a mgr is a nigh impossible task. Comical due the amount of abuse CH took for being negative when you look at Hughes, Allardyce, Bruce and Pulis - abused for failing to do what no one else has done. This message board is certainly not human nature at its best.[/quote]I think our goals tally, the worst in the division, shows just how negative Chris was.  There are plenty of stats to back this up, but our goals tally is probably the most telling.I think Chris did a decent job last year, although the league finish put an undeserved gloss on season which was a real struggle in the 2nd half.  The signs of his failings as a manager were there for all to see. This season has been an unmitigated disaster, a side perched on the edge of the abyss all season, destined to fall over at the last, given our tough final fixtures.As for ignorance and abuse, you seem full of both, which is certainly not human nature at its best. Well done T.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Classic case of a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[T 190]

Clueless, clown and hapless are ignorant and abusive. Focusing on one stat and abusing someone are further examples of cognitive failure. UKIP and the daily mail thrive on pandering to people''s prejudice and ignorant. I''m not the one here claiming to know more than a professional coach - I spend a lot of time working with coaches and one thing it teaches you is humility and respect for a professional coach - there is no on here who knows as much about football as CH or other managers but I need to go and train as I know I have a lot to learn if I''m ever going to be able to criticise a professional coach let alone be one. Criticising someone on a message board is a lot easier than being a professional coach.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

As with Worthy the man had to be virtually dehumanised to make his critics comfortable with the level of abuse they wanted to give him.

 

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="T"]I''m not the one here claiming to know more than a professional coach.[/quote]And indeed, one professional coach likely won''t agree with another one.  I doubt Paul Lambert would agree with Chris Hughton''s tactics. Chris Hghton can know whatever he wants, it doesn''t guarantee he is doing a decent job.  The fact so many attacking players have been disillusioned at the club is very telling as to where Chris''s talents are.[quote user="T"]I spend a lot of time working with coaches and one thing it teaches you is humility and respect for a professional coach.[/quote]Not respect for others however, if your condescending tone is anything to go by. Your abuse of those who discuss football on here is telling. It shows an inherent prejudice and superiority, when in fact you were wrong yet again.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

As with Worthy the man had to be virtually dehumanised to make his critics comfortable with the level of abuse they wanted to give him.

[/quote]It comes from frustration that Delia & co would not sack their friend. All those Morston dinners meant even when it was clear to all he was well past his sell by date, Nigel Worthington remained at the club.This showed yet again that everyone is human, and just because someone is in a particular position does not mean they are doing a good job or always make decisions for the right reasons.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

As with Worthy the man had to be virtually dehumanised to make his critics comfortable with the level of abuse they wanted to give him.

[/quote]It comes from frustration that Delia & co would not sack their friend. All those Morston dinners meant even when it was clear to all he was well past his sell by date, Nigel Worthington remained at the club.This showed yet again that everyone is human, and just because someone is in a particular position does not mean they are doing a good job or always make decisions for the right reasons.[/quote]

 

It comes from frustration which makes it acceptable how?

 

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

As with Worthy the man had to be virtually dehumanised to make his critics comfortable with the level of abuse they wanted to give him.

[/quote]It comes from frustration that Delia & co would not sack their friend. All those Morston dinners meant even when it was clear to all he was well past his sell by date, Nigel Worthington remained at the club.This showed yet again that everyone is human, and just because someone is in a particular position does not mean they are doing a good job or always make decisions for the right reasons.[/quote]

 

It comes from frustration which makes it acceptable how?

[/quote]You tell me, I have seen Hughton outers de-humanised by some on these message boards.  Look at T''s comments today.  Personally I don''t like the insults to the managers themselves.  Call the manager negative or incompetent, fine. The rest, not so. Managers are after all, only doing a job, albeit an extremely well paid one.  Who would walk away from a large payout?  It is not their position to sack themselves.The reason Nigel wasn''t sacked for so long had nothing to do with performances.  Key friendships within the club and its backers were lost when Delia and co failed to remove their good friend Nigel Worthington from his position.