Still on the fence as everyone else should be! But surely it's time for an attacking coach?

[Indy 3,477]

Sorry people, just can''t see why so many people want Huhgton to go after this Saturday, this sums it up for me, we played well in the first 45, we made sure we did not get caught out in the first 15 minutes of the second half and we finished strong!

 

We were good, we played well and should have won........BUT we could have played another 90 minutes and we would not have scored! Snodder, Hooper and Pilks ran strieght lines all game, so easy to defend it wasn''t untill Redmond Came on we actually looked like we might score!

 

Reading all the threads we are no better or worse off than pre match Saturday, just most fans feel it''s another 2 points dropped me included. But it''s time for Hughton to do something, we can''t just carrry on like this making excuses and saying we should have won!

 

One big thing Elmander was pretty ineffective in his prime for Bolton and for us he reminds me of the time we signed John Hartson, no pace, no power and nothing about him, really don''t see the point of signing this guy!

 

Next week we can write thing off and if we get something then great, but time for pace up top, time for Redmond and Murphey for me.

[Brightside 0]

I don''t really care about other teams and I think it''s bad when we need to start looking at other teams poor stats / results to justify how bad we are at the moment.

I actually think it''s about time people got down from the fence, nailed their colours to the mast etc. We are getting deeper and deeper into the season and the results are not improving. It''s no good saying we played well and should have scored if we don''t actually score. Week by week we are missing out on vital points. Especially when it is against the teams we should be beating i.e Hull and Cardiff.

It''s all well and good saying that Hughton needs time and our style of play is improving, if we are not getting the points we need to ensure that we are not relegated then we need to change things immediatley.

 

[Indy 3,477]

Yes but it''s no good changing manager if there is not the quality out there to make the impact we need?

 

Who is going to come in here? Holloway? O''Niell? Do you think Malky will jump ship, I certainly don''t! So who will take the job, who can we afford and who can make the impact we need?

 

Also I find it hard why so many fans stop with the manager? Looking at the likes of Fulham, Cardiff, Southampton, Swasnsea and other who have changed to foreign owners who have pushed those clubs past our level of financial backing. When you see how mach these clubs have invested in new grounds and the team it has left us far behind and yet we are still competing.

 

The truth is we are small fry in this league and it will that way under this current ownership, so you either accept that and enjoy where we are or hope for a sale to rich owners.

 

But for me a change of manager is a no not yet!

[ricardo 8,041]

I''d get off the fence if I were you. The wind is getting up a bit here in NR2.

[Brightside 0]

[quote user="Indy"]

Yes but it''s no good changing manager if there is not the quality out there to make the impact we need?

 

Who is going to come in here? Holloway? O''Niell? Do you think Malky will jump ship, I certainly don''t! So who will take the job, who can we afford and who can make the impact we need?

 

[/quote]

That''s a fair point and I don''t think that the grass is always greener. I am just very concerned about the amout of points we are dropping in games that we should be getting them and how much this will hurt us come May.  I certianly would not want Holloway here but I would like to see O,Neill back or Darren Ferguson from Posh.

[Salopian 1]

"Redmond and Murphy for me" would be my thinking as well.  Murphy had few minutes on the pitch but scored, while our regular strikers have played several games and scored once between them. Not only does Josh have a good shot, he could run ragged the tiring defenders if he comes on. Never mind the nicety of his being too young, I think that he could be a potent impact substitute, not necessarily every game but more often than one non-EPL game for a few minutes.

 

We are making better approach work now, with especially Leroy and Howson creating all sorts of chances, but we are not scoring. Marshall certainly played a blinder, saving with all parts of his body, and Cardiff were much more successful blockers of the ball than we have been. Having said this, with a scoring chance on average every three minutes we should have done better.

 

Both Redmond and Murphy are wingers rather than strikers, but both have pace and both can shoot. In contrast a clearly not yet fit Pilks seems to have lost his pace and Snoddy never had any. With wingers who have pace our chances will tend to arise in an un-crowded  penalty area and from pull-backs, which are more difficult to defend.

 

What is there to lose in bringing on the young quicks for longer later in the game?

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

Now would seem a very strange time to change the manager - the performances are improving and a light is emerging at the end of a tunnel, switching things around now could completely derail that.

 

Norwich created a host of chances on Saturday, and whilst many of them were long shots there were also a few gilt edged ones - especially Fer''s header and Martin''s shot just afterwards.

 

Just a couple of points on what I have seen mentioned on the thread - Elmander is not a huge goal scorer and his stats whilst at Bolton were never great to look at (although he performed much better in his last season), but he is well loved in Bolton and the fact he was never replaced is seen as a key reason for their relegation. He has shown recently for Sweden that given good service he can find the back of the net and is a arieal threat (Norwich''s only forward player with this in their locker). I can understand why Hughton brought him on, Cardiff were sitting deeper and deeper allowing no room for through balls that Hooper or RvW need, but plenty of crosses were raining into the box (23 in the first half alone!).

 

As for alternative managers, I think everyone should forget about Martin O''Neill - he doesn''t want to return to club management and his recent record is fairly bad anyway. And would people really be happy with Malky after Saturday''s performance? He made two defensive subs at half time, and Cardiff showed no intention to try and win the game after the 15th minute - isn''t that what Hughton was critised for pretty much all of last season?

[Gingerpele 0]

Bethnal RVW is an arial threat in the box... His only goal for us was a header, his 2!d or 3rd best chance for us was a header.

The first game I watch of his after we signed him he scored two decent headers. He definitely is an areal threat, in a different way to Elmander, but still...

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Bethnal RVW is an arial threat in the box... His only goal for us was a header, his 2!d or 3rd best chance for us was a header. The first game I watch of his after we signed him he scored two decent headers. He definitely is an areal threat, in a different way to Elmander, but still...[/quote]

 

He''s a great header of the ball - but he isn''t going to win (m)any headers in a crowded box as he isn''t the strongest of players and lumping the ball into him won''t work. By the time Hooper came off Cardiff were holding a line pretty much on the edge of their own box, and all of Olsson''s crosses were being easily cleared away - unfortunately Elmander didn''t make any impact for whatever reason - but I could totally understand the change.

 

 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

Not sure why anyone would still be "on the fence" after 5 wins in 2013 (nearly in November!).

the fact is that Hughton does not know how to win football matches in any given situation.....especially in the very rare occasions such as Saturday when we''re on top in a match.

Hughton Out.......before its too late and makes the next manager''s job impossible.

[Indy 3,477]

Bethnal, I agree that Elmander was the only real option as RVW was not fully fit, but my point is why is he here in the first place? Lakaku was available at the time we loaned Elmander, surely that type of player is where we should be looking!

 

I know the case for those against Hughton is there, and I too question some of the signing like Elmander but Fer, RVW, Redmond and Olsson, yep his results are questionable for 2013, but to be fair who else is there!

 

But again who else is there that you would want.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,424]

[quote user="Indy"]

Bethnal, I agree that Elmander was the only real option as RVW was not fully fit, but my point is why is he here in the first place? Lakaku was available at the time we loaned Elmander, surely that type of player is where we should be looking!

 

I know the case for those against Hughton is there, and I too question some of the signing like Elmander but Fer, RVW, Redmond and Olsson, yep his results are questionable for 2013, but to be fair who else is there!

 

But again who else is there that you would want.

[/quote]

 

I think the price difference between Lukaku and Elmander is a very significant factor - would imagine it would be several million more to get the Belgian in. Also, Elmander has played more often as a deeper striker rather than Lukaku who is very much a number 9.

 

I doubt Elmander was ever brought in to be first choice, he was signed as an option to come off the bench - a good performance against Bury and his experience earned him a couple of starts but he was soon moved to the bench when it wasn''t working out. He is still a very capable player, but with the recent chopping and changing in formation and players I think it has been hard for anyone to settle and get the best out of each other. This seems to be changing now with a constant formation and team (apart from RvW injury) in the last 4 matches. 

[Old Shuck 291]

If Malky had not been such a character and legend here as a player, would the calls from some for him to be our next Manager be as strident? He is, like Chris Hughton, a Manager who, tactically and game plan wise, sets out to avoid defeat first, just as he did on Saturday. He knows the importance of keeping Cardiff in the Premier League and their best chance of that is doing exactly what we did last season-keep it tight, organised and look to avoid defeat first and foremost rather than go out for the win-subtle (or not) difference as we all know.

 

So he wouldn''t return here as the conquering hero, immediately adopt a 4-2-4 formation and instruct us to rip into every team we play with joie di vivre and attacking flair and panache as we''d get relegated and everyone would be calling for his head after a dozen games or so.

 

If we end up, at any time, looking for a new Manager and his name comes to the fore I''d like those who would support his claim to the top job to outline why he would be an upgrade on the current Maanger because, right now, he isn''t and wouldn''t be.

 

If he keeps Cardiff up and gets to the stage where he is able to play a more expansive game with them in due course, Premier League income and reputation allowing tbem to bring in the sort of players that might get them to the next level (the one we are working at right now) then it might be a different story-but then he''d have more than us as potential suitors. I reckon his next stop after Cardiff will be Celtic.

 

 

[The Butler 0]

I think Hilaire Belloc summed it up nicely:-

" Be sure to keep tight hand on nurse, for fear of finding something worse"

 

[Indy 3,477]

Are we to small to progress? Good point from Bethnal, Lakaku might have cost a bit morw than the 2 million on Elmander, but would Lakaku come here?

 

I wonder if this manager and players are the pinicle of what we can expect under this current board, Not criticising the board, but are we just a poor relation in this premiership?

 

How much have we spent comepared to Cardiff, Southampton, Swansea, Fulham and others simillar to a club our size over the past three years?

 

Also did we not sort of accept that we would be in this position year in year out when we got up her three years ago?

 

Maybe the only way to push on is with a wealthy backer.

[Indy 3,477]

Additionally reading a lot of threads, I don''t think this one is so clear cut as Hughton IN or OUT!

 

Both pro arguements and those who are for getting rid have a valide case! That''s why I still think I sit on the fence. If there was another Mike Walker stiing there waiting to take the managers job then, a no brainer but there isn''t and I think those calling for Hughtons head might not be happy with who the board replace him with! maybe a Pulis or Dicannio?

 

Hell I''m happy on my fence and relegated or not, i am happier with what I am seeing, but please get a coach in to run attacking patterns and please play players with pace on the wings as an option.........that''s all I ask.

[unique 466]

There are still two things working in Hughton''s favour at the moment.....a substantial improvement in team performances, and the fact that only three points separate as many as ten teams above the bottom two.

He is still proving thoroughly inept at making substitutions to change a game. Mackay dared to make two changes at the break and engineered a point.

Norwich are not alone in struggling to find the net. Swansea [now that Michu has dried up], Fulham, Stoke, West Ham and several others are all trying to find the magical formula to turn a point into three.

Having watched the highlights of the weekend games, Norwich look a better bet to stay up than several of the teams above them. However,if the gap between Norwich and survival ever gets to eight points[factoring in a defeat at the Etihad] then Hughton''s time will probably be over.

[Scooby 0]

[quote user="Indy"]

Sorry people, just can''t see why so many people want Huhgton to go after this Saturday, this sums it up for me, we played well in the first 45, we made sure we did not get caught out in the first 15 minutes of the second half and we finished strong!

 

We were good, we played well and should have won........BUT we could have played another 90 minutes and we would not have scored! Snodder, Hooper and Pilks ran strieght lines all game, so easy to defend it wasn''t untill Redmond Came on we actually looked like we might score!

 

Reading all the threads we are no better or worse off than pre match Saturday, just most fans feel it''s another 2 points dropped me included. But it''s time for Hughton to do something, we can''t just carrry on like this making excuses and saying we should have won!

 

One big thing Elmander was pretty ineffective in his prime for Bolton and for us he reminds me of the time we signed John Hartson, no pace, no power and nothing about him, really don''t see the point of signing this guy!

 

Next week we can write thing off and if we get something then great, but time for pace up top, time for Redmond and Murphey for me.

[/quote]

Sorry Indy, but if the lines Pilks, Hoops etc were running were so easy to defend against then how was it we had around 30 shots? If Marshall hadn''t had the game of his life we would have won about 5-0. No one can complain about the attacking intent on Saturdays performance. If anything the only complaint would be that we are no where near clinical enough in front of goal. The chances were created, we just didn''t bury them.

[tricky974 63]

Everyone seems to have an opinion on how we are playing and who is to blame and there are many opinions and how to resolve these issues whether it is to get rid of Chris Houghton or to bring in an attacking coach or change the formation.

Sometimes i feel that alot of Norwich City supporters either jump on a band wagon or look to whole sale changes far too quickly,

This is my opinion as everyone is entitled to one..

We have spent alot of money over the summer more than we have ever had and this is down to 2 things firstly we are in a better financial state than we have been for many a year and secondly the board must feel that Chris Houghton is the right man for the job, has the squad improved if only on paper at the moment?...for me thats a yes we have strengthened in all areas defence, midfield and attack and with having John Ruddy come back from injury its like having a new player again. ( and he could have been off to Chelsea let''s not forget).

Because we have made lots of changes to our team it will take time for our players to get used to playing together and also playing in the premiership which it so different from many other leagues around the world.

We have also played against some very good teams in our early fixtures Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal we have in previous seasons taken points off these teams but at the moment every team are struggling against these teams and apart from the rare shock result  then these teams come away with the points.

Ok, ok I know we have played Hull and we should have beaten them but we did beat Southampton and look how well they are doing also the Villa game we actually played well against them and could have ended up up with points against them. The Stoke game we won and deserved to beat them aswell it was a good performance and on the day we put the ball in the back of the net, Cardiff could have been exactly the same we should have won but David Marshall probaly put in his best performance and most likely will not play like that again all season.

With 31 attempts at goal is an attacking coach really what we require? I would probaly say not. Is replacing Chris Houghton a good idea? again I dont think so as there is no one out there avaliable who i really rate, and also the players seem to play for him there is no lack of battling or commitment as far as I can see from the players.

Up next is Man City and anyway you slice it they have a fantastic team and it will be differcult to get anything from the game.

I am a Norwich City supporter and through thick and thin I sing and cheer and encourage my team at every opportunity, if we got behind the team more and the manager then together we may achieve our common goal.

 

OTBC 

[Syteanric 1]

that''s a great post Tricky...

and it doesn''t matter if the fans love Hughton or want him out, the only opinion that matters is that of the board...

Once the remain happy with the way things are, there will be no changes...

rightly/wrongly is discussion for another time but that is EXACTLY how it is.

[Indy 3,477]

[quote user="Scooby"][quote user="Indy"]

Sorry people, just can''t see why so many people want Huhgton to go after this Saturday, this sums it up for me, we played well in the first 45, we made sure we did not get caught out in the first 15 minutes of the second half and we finished strong!

 

We were good, we played well and should have won........BUT we could have played another 90 minutes and we would not have scored! Snodder, Hooper and Pilks ran strieght lines all game, so easy to defend it wasn''t untill Redmond Came on we actually looked like we might score!

 

Reading all the threads we are no better or worse off than pre match Saturday, just most fans feel it''s another 2 points dropped me included. But it''s time for Hughton to do something, we can''t just carrry on like this making excuses and saying we should have won!

 

One big thing Elmander was pretty ineffective in his prime for Bolton and for us he reminds me of the time we signed John Hartson, no pace, no power and nothing about him, really don''t see the point of signing this guy!

 

Next week we can write thing off and if we get something then great, but time for pace up top, time for Redmond and Murphey for me.

[/quote] Sorry Indy, but if the lines Pilks, Hoops etc were running were so easy to defend against then how was it we had around 30 shots? If Marshall hadn''t had the game of his life we would have won about 5-0. No one can complain about the attacking intent on Saturdays performance. If anything the only complaint would be that we are no where near clinical enough in front of goal. The chances were created, we just didn''t bury them.[/quote]

 

How many of those chacnes were created by running down the wing? Hopper run into the box twice on the end of strieght passes which were easily blocked by the defender each time!

 

Most were shots from outside the box and our two best shots were late on from Redmond who took the ball on and run across the defenders.

 

I''m not sure where you were watching but from the Barcaly where I was watching it was too easy to defend against.

 

We could have had another 13 corners and 31 shots and still not scored.

[Indy 3,477]

With 31 attempts at goal is an attacking coach really what we require?

 

Well Tricky, yes when we have createde 31 chances with maybe two clear cut chances, which were blocked and two outstading shots from Redmond and Olsson.

 

Surely if you create 31 chances, surely some of these should be converted, so the opposite for me, a good attacking coach to run patterns pull defenders out of position and creat better chances is a must for me.

 

I would be interested just what other teams do for attacking coaches.

 

But overall you are quiet right in waht you say.

[KeelansGlove 0]

If John Ruddy went for goal from every goal kick would that constitute a shot ?

This 31 "chances" is no more than a sign of desperation and bad decision making, you only need 1 good chance.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

[quote user="Indy"]

With 31 attempts at goal is an attacking coach really what we require?

 

Well Tricky, yes when we have createde 31 chances with maybe two clear cut chances, which were blocked and two outstading shots from Redmond and Olsson.

 

Surely if you create 31 chances, surely some of these should be converted, so the opposite for me, a good attacking coach to run patterns pull defenders out of position and creat better chances is a must for me.

 

I would be interested just what other teams do for attacking coaches.

 

But overall you are quiet right in waht you say.

[/quote]

This 31 chance thing is all very well, the problem is ,who were the chances falling to?  central midfielders, wingers, full backs?, whilst strikers that we''ve invested money in, whose job it is to put the ball in the net sit on the bench.

I ''d rather we have 2 strikers on the pitch, have half a dozen chances and win 2-0.

[lake district canary 4,836]

[quote user="Indy"]With 31 attempts at goal is an attacking coach really what we require?Well Tricky, yes when we have createde 31 chances with maybe two clear cut chances, which were blocked and two outstading shots from Redmond and Olsson.Surely if you create 31 chances, surely some of these should be converted, so the opposite for me, a good attacking coach to run patterns pull defenders out of position and creat better chances is a must for me. I would be interested just what other teams do for attacking coaches. But overall you are quiet right in waht you say.[/quote]

When is a chance not a chance?    So the team makes 31 chances, but they''re not the right kind of chances?    If you take that view, when is a goal not a goal?    Doesn''t a long shot going in count the same as a short range header? 

I keep hearing  people trying to find fault still, but they are running out of decent criticisms.   At the moment there only seems to be two things to beat Hughton with - supposedly poor substitutions and the "wrong" kind of chances.     Are the decent faults to pick up on running out?   I hope so.   If we score  some goals and Hughton makes a substitution that works, will the critics be happy?   Will they have run out of things to criticise and  everyone will then be happy?    That''ll be the day.....

However, I agree we should be mindful of  being too polarised in our views about Hughton.   Imo the Hughton outers are so off track it beggars belief  and I hope most of us  are  happy to see improvements and that it translates into goals and wins as the season progresses.   

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Indy"]With 31 attempts at goal is an attacking coach really what we require?
Well Tricky, yes when we have createde 31 chances with maybe two clear cut chances, which were blocked and two outstading shots from Redmond and Olsson.Surely if you create 31 chances, surely some of these should be converted, so the opposite for me, a good attacking coach to run patterns pull defenders out of position and creat better chances is a must for me. I would be interested just what other teams do for attacking coaches. But overall you are quiet right in waht you say.[/quote]



When is a chance not a chance?    So the team makes 31 chances, but they''re not the right kind of chances?    If you take that view, when is a goal not a goal?    Doesn''t a long shot going in count the same as a short range header? 


I keep hearing  people trying to find fault still, but they are running out of decent criticisms.   At the moment there only seems to be two things to beat Hughton with - supposedly poor substitutions and the "wrong" kind of chances.     Are the decent faults to pick up on running out?   I hope so.   If we score  some goals and Hughton makes a substitution that works, will the critics be happy?   Will they have run out of things to criticise and  everyone will then be happy?    That''ll be the day.....


However, I agree we should be mindful of  being too polarised in our views about Hughton.   Imo the Hughton outers are so off track it beggars belief  and I hope most of us  are  happy to see improvements and that it translates into goals and wins as the season progresses.   



[/quote]

I don''t mind being called "off track" but 5 wins in 2013, and 2 wins out of 9 this season are the bare facts......he''s surely on thin ice, as anyone with this record at any club should be?

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

--- Scooby: If Marshall hadn''t had the game of his life we would have won about 5-0.

Not really, apart from the fantastic double save after the scramble in the first half, most were routine saves. It was definitely an improved performance, but we need to start winning games like this fast. If our performances dip as they did half way through last season we could be in real trouble.

[ricardo 8,041]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]--- Scooby: If Marshall hadn''t had the game of his life we would have won about 5-0.

Not really, apart from the fantastic double save after the scramble in the first half, most were routine saves. It was definitely an improved performance, but we need to start winning games like this fast. If our performances dip as they did half way through last season we could be in real trouble.[/quote]Perhaps we are getting the dip out of the way earlier.[;)]

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]If our performances dip as they did half way through last season we could be in real trouble.[/quote]Perhaps we are getting the dip out of the way earlier.[;)][/quote]And then we''ll be left with the dipsticks Ricardo. [:D]

[tricky974 63]

Having 30 odd shots its obviously not the target but putting the ball in the back of the net is, but with the comments indicating that people would rather they fell to a striker is obvious...but that is not always the case often they are marked out of the game more as they are the more likely threat a clear indication of this is how many goals for Chelsea Frank Lampard jr is able to achieve during a season and yes i appreciate that he plays for team worth millions, but to be honest i dont care how the ball hits the net off a backside of one of our players or is an own goal, but the chances have to be created in the first place.

Bringing in an attacking coach could assist us in moving players around to create better chances of that i dont disagree and anything that would help our current predicament would be beneficial, i do not know what other teams do in respect to attacking coaches and obviously some posters on here have a better understanding of that than myself if someone was to come in who would that be?

 

OTBC