Rather lose 6-0 and have a go.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

---- ron obvious: The opposition frightened me, I''m not surprised they frightened our players. What the Hell do you expect?

They frightened our manager.... They were all over us. We changed nothing. Even after 2-0, nothing. Our players did not used to play with fear.

[south of the border 0]

Any defeat is disappointing.  But what i found frustrating today is that we sat off spurs & gave them all the time in the world when they had the ball (which was most of the time today!).  Remember Liverpool away last season?  Exactly the same!We just simply did not turn the game today into a contest, we are not necessarily going to beat the likes of spurs or liverpool etc etc by becoming just physical, but surely we need to press teams a whole lot better in midfield.  Part of the reason spurs looked so good today is how quickly they won they ball back off us we were constanted rushed when we were in possession & it forced lots mistakes & misplaced passes.  It''s not just about having £100m+ worth of talent at your disposal (but it does help!!)  Spurs never felt our presence today & thats just organisation & hard work.OTBC

[snake-eyes 13]

Deluded?

Oh no my dear Thorny l just don''t believe in quitting before the race is run!

Must be very lonely to live in such an uninspiring bubble? One in which there is no hope and no chance of success?

Why bother living?

I have achieved a number of things which people told me were impossible or highly unlikely! I did it by not giving up and attacking them head on!

One of those resulted in representing Great Britain!

So don''t tell me l am delusional!

Snake

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Houston Canary"]. Why not 4-3 back and forth footy with a sense of "maybe"? It beats going down one, having 30% possession and feeling no honest sense of "we''re still in this".[/quote]because we''d still have lost!!!!!

[/quote]

If this isn''t what a "real" pant wetter is I don''t know what is. That is way more negative than any Hughton outer! We turn up to compete. Suggesting we had lost the game before kick off, or by trying to attack more we''d get thumped 6-0 is just ludicrous! Why don''t we just forfeit and save the travel expenses if we''re that much worse? We''re in the same league for christ sake! As others have said no game is a given either way!

[ThatGirlFromNJ 0]

[quote user="snake-eyes"]Deluded?

l just don''t believe in quitting before the race is run!

Snake[/quote]

My sentiments, exactly! Self-fulfilling prophecy, anyone?

[ron obvious 1,502]

snake-eyes, you''re saying they gave up before they started. That''s not what I saw. We tried, but ...

They were better than us.

You can take things head on as much as you like, but sometimes it won''t work. The power of positive thinking won''t stop the tiger from ripping your head off if it''s in the mood to do so.

[snake-eyes 13]

True but Cower in a corner and it sure as hell will Try and run away and it will catch up with you!

Look it in the eye and take it on you suddenly become a threat! Yes you may well lose but at least you gave yourself a chance!

l am not saying we are better than Spurs and that we should expect a result! What l am saying is that we are here merit and we should expect to compete!

That is all!

[Badger 2,405]

The idea that it is better to lose 6 - 0 is just silly. The idea that it is more entertaining is simply mendacious - I wasn''t entertained when we lost 5 - 0 at Fulham last year; or 6 - 0 the last time before that; not the loss at home to Colchester for that matter.

We were simply beaten by a better side and have to recognise that it will happen again. Is there a Norwich player that would have made the Spurs first 11 today or even the bench? (Freidel vs Ruddy possibly?)

With games like this, you recognise that you have a fighter''s chance - keep going and hope that you get the opportunity to land a couple of good punches - it will work occasionally.

[i,coopius 0]

can''t believe in 3 pages no ones said "remember where we''ve come from", or "just think where we were 4 years ago". today was an embarresment, maybe not to the outside world who see norwich lose 2-0 away to spurs, no, thats an expected results. the manner of the defeat, the way we played the game. we didn''t set out to win, indeed we didn''t even seem set up to draw. it was as though we accepted we were going to lose, and just wanted to keep the score down.the humble cap doffers need to remember its bloomoin spurs, not barcelona ''11, not brazil ''70. this season we''re gonna lose games we should win, but if we play like that. set up like that, we arent going to be winning many we should lose.

[Houston Canary 0]

jas and his ilk, once again, why does trying to win mean we lose 6-0? As snake has pointed out a few times to the blind who refuse to open their eyes, fighting back gives us a chance and instills confidence. Folding like deck chairs on Titanic is a recipe for failure and it sucks the life out of the players and fans.

What happened to the attitude we brought to the Soton game?

Too many of you think we can''t do it. This being our 3rd consecutive top flight season suggests otherwise.

I don''t know if the players are hot and cold too but the manager''s approach to games sure seems to be.

If we get thumped, so be it but we''re just as likely to get some points. How often has goal difference been the difference in relegation or missing promotion? Not enough to play road games like we have so far this season.

[ron obvious 1,502]

HC & his ilk, do you seriously believe we didn''t try to win the match? perhaps you need to open your eyes.

The first thing you have to do is win the ball. I thought Spurs looked excellent from the outset, but I also thought we were winning the ball well & trying to do something with it by some neat passing forward. Unfortunately Spurs were on top of us all the time & we ran out of options resulting in misplaced passes after 5 or 6 good ones. They then attacked with a speed & skill we couldn''t match. In short:

They

were

better

than

us.

So, what brilliant tactics would you use to overcome this? Commit more men up the pitch? So how are we going to get the ball to start with? They sliced through us as it was - how is that going to improve with fewer men to intercept & tackle??

The only way we were going to match them yesterday was with better movement off the ball, quicker running & more skill.

i.e. ....different players.

I think the problem with all the gung ho types on here is they are essentially Nietzschean egomaniacs. Everything is possible by a triumph of the will. It isn''t.

Players like Johnson had their limitations exploited. Ruddy didn''t play well, nor did a few others - mostly because they weren''t allowed to.

I suggest that by " going for it" we would have been subjected to a 5 or 6 goal drubbing. As it was, if RVW had put one of his chances away there is a much better chance we could have got something.

We will never know. But we won''t be playing teams like Spurs, on top form & with superb players, many times this years. And ours will have better games.

We move on.

[Joanna Grey 0]

Thank goodness we still have fans like Ron and Ricardo who can see the bigger picture rather than those who are obviously deluded into thinking that just because we spent a few million we should walk the league. Spurs lost a hugely influential player but (IMHO) strengthened an already good team with £105m worth of talent, of which £80m of that was on the pitch yesterday. Their forwards and midfield did not let our defence rest, they targeted our outlets from the back - Whittaker and Turner to stop them bringing the ball forward, let Johnson have space knowing his passing is usually ineffectual and tip-toed around Snoddy knowing that his falling down act would be ignored. We were simply outplayed all over the pitch by a far better team.

[ReadingCanary 0]

[quote user="Joanna Grey"]Thank goodness we still have fans like Ron and Ricardo who can see the bigger picture rather than those who are obviously deluded into thinking that just because we spent a few million we should walk the league. Spurs lost a hugely influential player but (IMHO) strengthened an already good team with £105m worth of talent, of which £80m of that was on the pitch yesterday. Their forwards and midfield did not let our defence rest, they targeted our outlets from the back - Whittaker and Turner to stop them bringing the ball forward, let Johnson have space knowing his passing is usually ineffectual and tip-toed around Snoddy knowing that his falling down act would be ignored. We were simply outplayed all over the pitch by a far better team.[/quote]This. So True.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

--- Joanna Grey: We were simply outplayed all over the pitch by a far better team.

Of course this is not helped by our dour predictability. And indeed, it took 74 minutes of getting peed on before we actually made any real attempt to change the game.

No-one minds losing to a superior side, it just grates when the management team do nothing to try and alter the direction of the game. With the sub on 64minutes it was quite clear they had settled for the defeat.

[Cerberus 0]

JG/RC,I can sort of see your line of thinking, but the key question for me is if Spurs can work out that you simply give BJ lots of space and dont get close to Snoddy, then other lesser teams will adopt this tactic too. You have hit on a point that I have been banging on about for weeks, in that if we close down the supply line, we pose little threat going forwards. In this context, part of Fer''s problem yesterday was that all of the pressure is on him to create. So when faced with greater oppoition focus (because as you say BJ was given space), he not only has less space and time, but also has take more risks.Apart from introducing someone who can pass too in the BJ psoition, we also need to address the utter rpedictability fo our line up and formation as all other teams will work us out, home and away.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]--- Joanna Grey: We were simply outplayed all over the pitch by a far better team.

Of course this is not helped by our dour predictability. And indeed, it took 74 minutes of getting peed on before we actually made any real attempt to change the game.

No-one minds losing to a superior side, it just grates when the management team do nothing to try and alter the direction of the game. With the sub on 64minutes it was quite clear they had settled for the defeat.[/quote]So what would have been your game changing masterstroke then, CJF? Tell us who you would have brought off the bench and what tactical changes you would have made in order to get a foothold in a game in which man for man we were outclassed?

[Cerberus 0]

Ricardo,Although your questions wasnt aimed at me, I hope you dont mind me chipping in.Some suggestions:1.Pick a team on form - this motivates the whole squad to play better2. If you dont have the players to enact a strategy, base the strategy around the players.3. Be a bit more unpredictable, swap wingers from time to time or move players in and out of the hole (both Redmond and Pilks can play in thsi role from time to time, but not admittedly for the whole match or when we are hoofing)4. Stop Ruddy from hoofing (dont know if he is told to do this) because everytime the ball just comes back to us with interest.5. Play someone in central midfield who is comfortable with the ball at his feet - place less virtue on chasing a ball that has been lost and more on not losing it in the first place.6. If we are going to play deep and not allow the full backs to support, this means playing a very quick counterattacking game and not delaying the release of the ball.7. One thing that I have noticed is that our players are being too greedy when shooting - we need to look for the guy in space and play one-twos.Yes, anyone can play at being a football manager, but I would have thought that most of the above is obvious to those in football management too. The key question is whether the players are not playing to CH''s strategy or whether hsi startegy is simply wrong. Either way, he has to change things fast as this approach will inevitably spill over to our home form in time. Do you rmember Newscastle at home last year - two teams desperate not to lose.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Agree with pretty much all of that Louis. It really is getting to the stage where you genuinely wonder what the point is of turning up to away games . No doubt we will scrape the odd draw and the even odder win away from CR, but , at this moment in time , its difficult to see where our next away point (or even goal) is going to come from. It looked very much to me that, with the tactics demanded by Hughton, the players had got into the mindset that we were going to lose, so lets keep the score down. The only real positive about yesterday is that it was only 2.

[KeelansGlove 0]

Lets get one think clear, Spurs whilst looking good in spells and clearly holding the ball well in midfield never needed to get out of first gear.

They did everything they had to do and not anything more, when we had the ball we gave it straight back every time.

Just gutless.

[ReadingCanary 0]

That''s what happens when you have 4 in midfield vs Spurs'' 5We just got completely overwhelmed

[Cerberus 0]

Reading,I think the 4 vs 5 argument is misleading. Is Sigursson anymore or a midfileder than Elmander? Anyway, putting this point to onse side, if it was 4 vs 5, the key issue was how did our manager react to what his eyes were seeing. Did he coacjh from the sidelines, try to change the game with early subs or chnage the approach at half time. Nope, none of these. The whole point about 6-0 is indeed silly, because GD could be important come the end of the season, but the complete lack of any Plan B (even assuming Plan A was a good one, which inmy opinion it wasnt) is the most worrying asepct of yesterday.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

--- ricardo: So what would have been your game changing masterstroke then, CJF? Tell us who you would have brought off the bench and what tactical changes you would have made in order to get a foothold in a game in which man for man we were outclassed.

So you agree Chris Hughton had no plan, the opposition were too good in his eyes, and we all should have gone home on 28 minutes. He did not believe he could change he game so did not even try. He tried nothing and was all out of ideas. He settled for the defeat.

I remember a certain Swansea game where we were getting outplayed... Benno was moved behind the striker and his runs caused their defence no end of trouble on the break. One player changed the direction of the game.

As we saw with the Everton game last season, goals change games, bang one in, and a team which had been thoroughly outplayed for 80 minutes suddenly were on top. if one had been knocked in who knows what could have happened. We did not change our outlook away from the defensive at any point yesterday.

[Fergodsake 0]

I just feel this squad lacks a strong creative dimension down the spine, I just dont feel that there is enough passing quality and thats always going to leave the wingers as the sole creators. Id have really loved to see Huddlestone here, sure he has glass knees but he would have given us something to work with in terms of creativity. This squad Hughton is putting together is potentially a strong one, but without someone in the number 10 slot who is very technically proficient and can create link up play, or a defensive midfielder who can really move the ball on with accuracy, we are too easy to close down. Im sure many will disagree, but thats just how I see our football.

[Cerberus 0]

Fergodsake,Completely agree about the spine, but even if we had had Toivenen or Quagliareall yesterday, it wouldnt have made difference becuase unless CM can retain the ball, our only outlet seems to be to pass back to Ruddy for him to hoof.Hopefully CH will see exactly what you, I and a growing number of fans see. Surely he has to start with a big rethink of his preference for BJ?

[Fergodsake 0]

Well I always assumed when he was bought that Fer was the replacement for BJ, a physical hard tackling presence in front of the back four but with the added bonus of a lot more technical proficiency. I was very surprised when we didnt buy a truly creative presence next to Fer. Personally I just cant envisage how our formation can work without a true out and out playmaker, and with Fer, Elmander and BJ we dont appear to be playing one.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Louis Cyphre"] Stop Ruddy from hoofing (dont know if he is told to do this) because everytime the ball just comes back to us with interest.[/quote]The problem yesterday was that Spurs were playing such a high line so as soon as our defenders had the ball they were under pressure. The only safe thing they could do was to pass it back to Ruddy who, in turn , had no alternative but to hoof it.

[Cerberus 0]

Lappin,I would argue that Spurs obvious quality is only part of the problem. But let''s suppose you are right. What happnes when every team works out this is how to play us, at home and away. Then what happens?

[Fergodsake 0]

Lappin it upSurely thats partially an issue of squad composition then, we have genuine pace in Redmond, but no one who can release him against a defence which plays a high line because our midfield cannot play long balls under pressure.

[ellis206 0]

Funny thing is, despite Hughton being lambasted for his negative tactics. We picked up one point against the top 4 under Lambert, last season we picked up 9Make of that what you will

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="snake-eyes"]

So losing to Spurs is pretty much inevitable with our team is it?

 

This is the biggest load of Bullsh*t I have ever heard on here!

 

Why bother even turning up then? I tell you what, lets not spend the money get relegated and be in the league you clearly feel we should be in!

 

We have a decent side with abilities that should be able to compete! Are Spurs a good side? Yes of course they are! But you know what? I am fed up of hearing that we have to show these ''Big Teams'' respect!  Some say we have no right to expect anything from these games and so we should just bend over and take it like a good Pro!  Well no we should not!  We are a Premier league side with International quality players! Why shouldn''t we go to places like WHL go at them, make their life hard, turn their home crowd on them and get something?  If we can''t expect that then we have no right to be in the Premier league!

 

Those of us who complain are called non supporters, yet comments like the one above and others like ''We cannot be expected to get anything against a team that has spent £xM on players!''  This is truly being negative about our team!  We complain and moan because we have seen and expect more than we are seeing at the moment. Our team is better than this, the players are better than this we know that we can perform more positively!

 

We believe in our team! We just question whether the way we play is the best way for our players to show what they can do and get the results we need!

 

Snake

[/quote]Completely agree with all that Snake, you must be delighted with our performances vs the top 4 last season then???