Rather lose 6-0 and have a go.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Louis Cyphre"]I would argue that Spurs obvious quality is only part of the problem. But let''s suppose you are right. What happnes when every team works out this is how to play us, at home and away. Then what happens?[/quote]Not every team have Spurs quality plus everything came together for them on the day. On another day, our passes from midfield will find their targets and our forwards will put pressure on opposition defences which means they won''t be so keen to play such a high line.(still trying to stay positive even though I feel like I''ve been mauled by a lion) [;)]

[snake-eyes 13]

What is your point ellis? You say you agree with what l said but then ask a question which implies something else?

[ellis206 0]

Your point was, you don''t believe we should bend over backwards against the big teams. I think you should have been implying this under the days of Lambert as we got stuffed by most of them yet we beat 3 of the top four last season under Hughton. So in essence, I find your argument a bit odd

[Houston Canary 0]

We finished with more points under Lambert, ellis. We played with balls under Lambert. The games were fun under Lambert. Our road fans made noise under Lambert. We sure as shipt wouldn''t have lost at 10-man Hull without scoring a goal under Lambert.

We gave it a go every week regardless of the venue under Lambert and comfortably avoided relegation.

[snake-eyes 13]

My argument was that, some are saying that because we were playing a ''big team'' that all we should do is sit back and hope for the best because we don''t have a chance!

I believe we do have a chance because of what I saw in theIfirst half of last season!

But for that l am called delusional?

l was not implying what you said ellis, just what others were saying we should do!

You have misinterpreted what l have written.

Snake

[ron obvious 1,502]

We DID NOT sit back & hope. We tried but failed.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Clearly Ron was watching or listening to a completely different game to me !

It was obvious from the start that no-one on the team, the bench or , I''m assuming, behind the scenes, had any faith at all that we were going to get anything from that game. There was no effort, no confidence, no determination and no belief that we were going to get anything. It was all damage limitation, and the kindest thing you can say about that performance is that, by keeping it to 2-0, to a certain extent that objective was achieved .

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

If you have a go in three consecutive games and lose the first two 6-0 but manage to get a win in the third one, that is three points. If you go in with no ability to score and set up to stop them scoring, then if you lose all three games 1-0 you will have 0 points, but a much nicer goal difference. Which will only matter in the event another team is level with you on points. Id rather we had a chance of the points or a walloping in every game than getting a respectable defeat. There is no respect for a team that doesnt try to win a game

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

It doesnt matter how much better than us Tottenhams squad is. Sometimes the inferior side win through guile. Thats how cup upsets happen. If it was purely about the quality of the opposition football teams wouldnt bother actually playing each other and football would be like a giant game of Top Trumps. We never gave ourselves a chance yesterday. That is humiliating, far more than a 6-0 defeat would have been

[ron obvious 1,502]

So, you didn''t see any neat passing moves from us in the first 15 or so minutes? Almost as good as Spurs'' in some cases. Good tackles & interceptions? I did. It was what happened as those moves progressed; Spurs pressed & harried us into making mistakes, then, once they''d got the ball their greater ability became more & more evident. Did you see the backheel against the post? The way Eriksson found players without looking? The speed, accuracy & incision of their passing? Danny Rose not giving Snodgrass & Whittaker a smidgeon of space to work in?

That''s what I saw.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Yes, I did see those things, Ron. The problem being that all the things that you refer to were done by players in WHITE shirts !

The title of this thread refers to whether Norwich players went out and had a go. My contention is they , almost for the whole 90 mins, didn''t.

[Houston Canary 0]

We were on the back foot from the get-go. The few passes we strung together ended with intrrceptions, ball out of bounds or just a way off target final pass. We had possessions that lasted 2 or 3 seconds. Many of them.

If they''re pressing, they''re exposed upfield but we had no plan to exploit that.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]We were on the back foot from the get-go. The few passes we strung together ended with intrrceptions, ball out of bounds or just a way off target final pass. We had possessions that lasted 2 or 3 seconds. Many of them.

If they''re pressing, they''re exposed upfield but we had no plan to exploit that.[/quote]

Agreed. Kyle Walker spent most of his time in our half. With Redmond on that wing we should have been catching him exposed and out of position on the counter multiple times, yet Redmond was completely anonymous and we didnt even seem to be trying to exploit that obvious consequence of their pressing

[nutty nigel 7,528]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]It doesnt matter how much better than us Tottenhams squad is. Sometimes the inferior side win through guile. [/quote]

 

And Hughton has done that with us on plenty of occasions so that''s something you can''t lay at his door.

 

 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]It doesnt matter how much better than us Tottenhams squad is. Sometimes the inferior side win through guile. [/quote]

 

And Hughton has done that with us on plenty of occasions so that''s something you can''t lay at his door.

 

 

[/quote]

I can, because in those games you''re talking about, we didnt play like we did at Tottenham. We didnt get those results by doing what we did yesterday. Hull away was more like Luton in the cup than yesterday was Man U at Carrow Road. If we''d have played in the same way as we did in the games against Man Utd and Man City yet lost, nobody would be complaining

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

I''m not sure whether your use of the word "plenty" is appropriate, Nigel . Sure, Arse and ManYoo at home are reasonable bets, but can you name me one other time, especially away, where it''s been the case ? Please don''t cite the Etihad last game of last season, as the Citeh players were already on the beach.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

Citeh home & away

Spurs home & away

Arsenal home & away

Chelsea home

Man utd home

 

We didn''t win them all but the managers guile caused all those teams problems in the games listed. Is there another comparable manager with a comparable record against the top clubs?

 

Don''t rewrite history to prove a point that''s not there. We were crap yesterday just as we were man utd away last season. But as you can see that''s not been the norm for Hughton.

 

 

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Sorry, but, isn''t actually getting something from the game the whole point Nigel ?! Chelsea totally dominated the game at CR last Xmas, and we were lucky to lose only 1-0 . We did start well at the Emirates, and then reverted to type, with the predictable consequences. Citeh at home was just one of those comedy cuts, mad cap games that comes along from time to time.

It''s not me that''s rewriting history. I''ll readily agree that our record against the top teams was none too shabby.

But was the no-shows against those lower down that was the problem !

[ricardo 7,384]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Citeh home & away

Spurs home & away

Arsenal home & away

Chelsea home

Man utd home

 

We didn''t win them all but the managers guile caused all those teams problems in the games listed. Is there another comparable manager with a comparable record against the top clubs?

 

Don''t rewrite history to prove a point that''s not there. We were crap yesterday just as we were man utd away last season. But as you can see that''s not been the norm for Hughton.

 

 

[/quote]You are wasting your time Nigel, he''s negative and they want him out and they won''t be swayed by facts.Holloway, Tilson etc would have us in the top 6.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Factually incorrect, I''m afraid Ricardo. I''ve never either:

a, suggested that CH should be sacked

b, touted Tilson or Holloway as manager.

c, been unwilling to listen to accurate facts.

[snake-eyes 13]

Ricardo

 

many of us are not asking for a change of manager we are asking for a change in approach. Two totally different things unless you believe that they are integral to each other and that we can only have a change of approach if we change the manager?

 

This is far from being negative.  So far this season I have been called a negative pantwetter for saying that our performances have not been good enough. Then I get called dillusional for having belief in our team and players from someone who says we are not good enough to get anything from the games against the top six and so why bother?

 

Who is being negative?

 

Snake

[ricardo 7,384]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Factually incorrect, I''m afraid Ricardo. I''ve never either:

a, suggested that CH should be sacked

b, touted Tilson or Holloway as manager.

c, been unwilling to listen to accurate facts.[/quote]That''s why I said "they" and not "you".The general tone of  many anti Hughton threads from yesterday is that it''s all the fault of negative tactics and if only we had set up in a different manner or made different substitutions it might have turned out to be a different result. I know it''s hard to accept that sometimes you come up against a superior opposition who are on top form but that''s the way it goes. Everything else is whistling in the dark.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Rather gathered that as Nigel was replying to a point I''d made, that I was being lumped into the "they", Ricardo. Sorry for any misunderstanding.....

But aren''t we going round in circles here. On the one hand, Nigel says that Hughton has produced lots of stunning results against the top teams, and that we don''t use negative tactics. But , in agreeing with him you are effectively saying that the Spurs of this world are miles better than us, so we''ve really got no chance, whatever tactics are employed ?

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

--- ron obvious: We DID NOT sit back & hope. We tried but failed.

I refuse to believe you watched the game.

[ricardo 7,384]

[quote user="snake-eyes"]

Ricardo

 

many of us are not asking for a change of manager we are asking for a change in approach. Two totally different things unless you believe that they are integral to each other and that we can only have a change of approach if we change the manager?

 

This is far from being negative.  So far this season I have been called a negative pantwetter for saying that our performances have not been good enough. Then I get called dillusional for having belief in our team and players from someone who says we are not good enough to get anything from the games against the top six and so why bother?

 

Who is being negative?

 

Snake

[/quote]Why do you assume that when we are forced back by a team that is keeping the ball much better than we are it''s because we are choosing to sit back? I am sorry but I just don''t buy that.At no stage before going two behind were we able to hold the ball in the Spurs half for any decent amount of time. It wasn''t because we didn''t want to or didn''t try to. We didn''t play well, we didn''t pass well and we didn''t keep the ball.  A large part of the credit for that is because Spurs didn''t allow us time or space.We are in a league where in most away games we are going to be the underdog (look at the bookies odds). It should be no surprise that away wins will always be in short supply. Those that followed us away in League one and The Championship saw plenty of wins but this is a whole different ball game and they better get a handle on reality or they are in for a lot of disappointment.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

--- nutty nigel: We didn''t win them all but the managers guile caused all those teams problems in the games listed. Is there another comparable manager with a comparable record against the top clubs?

Just unfortunate that employing the same cautious tactics meant we picked up so few points against the rubbish sides. I wonder if we will be able to match last seasons record against the good teams again.

[T 190]

Football results are largely determined by money not the manager. Spurs budget is about 100m more than NCFC. Unfortunately due to poor education and or low intelligence there are some fans who are still unable to grasp these basic facts.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

--- ricardo: Why do you assume that when we are forced back by a team that is keeping the ball much better than we are it''s because we are choosing to sit back?

Because we sat back last season against even crap sides like Stoke.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Again , Ricardo, you totally miss the point. No one is suggesting that in all areas Spurs etc don''t have a better squad than us . Just as we did in Lge One and the Champ. The analogy is a good one because, in the main, the teams that got the best results against us in both leagues were the ones who employed tactics to either stifle us or take us on at our own game (eg MK Dons, Tranmere and Southampton in Lg 1 ) We patently failed to even set out to achieve that yesterday, and the result was thus never in doubt.

[ricardo 7,384]

[quote user="T"]Football results are largely determined by money not the manager. Spurs budget is about 100m more than NCFC. Unfortunately due to poor education and or low intelligence there are some fans who are still unable to grasp these basic facts.[/quote]Simplistic, but nearer the truth than many posts on this thread.