My take on Mr Christopher Hughton

[Overrated, Overpaid and Over Here! 0]

I don''t post much on this forum but login a few times a day to follow the debate and enjoy the banter between regular posters. However, you seem to have a large majority who either dislike Hughton full stop and nothing he says or does and nothing the team does performance or result wise will change that. Others are equally blinkered and seem to defend him to the hilt regardless of obvious failings. Here''s my take on our manager, this is coming from a City fan who''s been following our teams since the 1980''s and who has endured the ups and the lows and who also takes and interest in other teams across the leagues.

When Houghton was appointed manager I was, well, underwhelmed. It wasn''t a disastrous appointment like say an Ian Dowie, a Steve Bruce or a Mark Hughes nor an exciting appointment for a club our size. It came on the back of Lamberts departure and regardless of how some sections of our fans seem to now hunk he is lucifer he was a success and the brand of football he produced here was exciting.

Every game we played under Lambert I felt we had a chance, no matter how slim, we could nick something, we could, on our day, beat anyone, and this proved the case. Lambert moved on, as he was always going to and next to take the hot seat was the amiable chap so poorly treated by Newcastle United who appears to be warmly welcomed by everyone in the footballing world.

Chris Hughton is a nice, decent chap. Possibly one of the nicest people in football if what I''ve read is to be believed. However, nice wins you nothing. Whilst his technical and tactical abilities as a coach are well documented from his days at Spurs being manager and having the buck stopping at your door is a different ball game and situations and challenges call for quick decisions and an ability to evolve and adapt mid game.

My take on Hughtons managerial performance at Norwich City is a mixed picture.

Positives: he is professional, he is sincere, he is decent, he is committed, he clearly cares and he wants to achieve over the long term with our club. We are not just a stepping stone al la Paul Lambert. He is a sound coach who is more the capable of setting out an organised and strong defensive unit. He has improved our defence and we are harder to beat despite what some on here say. our record at home last season shows a solid improvement and only a handful of crazy beatings squiffed the goal difference stas.

His player acquisitions have, in my opinion, been pretty decent and despite a slow start the additions to the team have been largely an improvement across the squad.

Negatives: Hughton is too nice. I''m a management consultant by trade and I have spent years studying and developing leaders. Hughton is not leadership material. He would never be a CEO but would make a strong head of compliance or operational manager. He will follow instructions, carry our his duties to the best of his capabilities and there would be little boat rocking from the man.

He would be honest and reliable. He however wouldn''t be innovative, driven, be a visionary or dare to be a little wreck less in the pursuit of rich rewards. He won''t chance his arm by going ''all in'' but he''d stay in the game and would protect his pot.

His overtly defensive and overly cautious nature is mirrored throughout the teams he sends out to play wearing the yellow and green. Despite identifying the need for greater creativity and more attacking intent by buying better attacking players they are set up to again produce defensive minded performances. I have yet to see one single team sheet where I thought '' Christ, Chris is going for it''. And we won''t until such a time we are really up the creek and paddle-less. His fear of failure prevents him going for it unless he has no choice at all. Reference last 3 games of last season.

Ok, I''m rambling on now. But basically, he''s a decent chap and a relatively competent coach/manager whose a safe pair of hands. He is absolutely NOT amongst the best 20 managers plying their trade here in England right now, he is not in possession of the qualities needed to drive this team to level where we will be anything but in the relegation mix year in year out.

The players will ultimately determine whether we stay up as, on paper, we are not amongst the worst three squads in the league. Hughton will not pull that extra 10% out of the players like Lambert did nor will he be crafty enough to mastermind a win against all the odds. He''s nice and safe but we''re are in with the big boys now and the stakes are ''Sky'' high... No pun intended.

Whilst I will back our team always and feel hughton is given a hard time by many and often unfairly he, in my opinion, doesn''t cut the mustard (colmans of course). Sticking with Chris Hughton is the likely strategy for this season at least but for me, I know we''ll be flirting with the drop all season and I think one more year of negative football and skin of the teeth survival at best will see the board move to replace him next year... But that depends on the availability of a better option, decent managers do not grow on trees and these guys generally work for good clubs. If you think signing a decent striker was a nightmare then try and find a proven, hungry and gifted manager whose not on a final pay day and past their best, not any easy task.

My only hope is the likes of Fer, RVW and Hooper and Snodgrass and Bassong and Ruddy, the talent that IS THERE, deliver to the best of their ability more often than not despite how Hughton sets them up. Break the ranks and go for broke if you need to, they have the talent!! Then and only then, we will have a chance purely because their quality should see up rise above the newly promoted teams and a handful of premier league clubs that seem to go into melt down and free fall every season.

Hughton deserves at least 3 or 4 more games without being hounded to get these new players gelling, Hughtons a decent chap, one of the good guys and I respect that... But ...You know what they say about Nice Guys Finishing Last.

[Joanna Grey 0]

O, O and OH wrote - "I''m a management consultant by trade and I have spent years studying and developing leaders."

Oh boy, here we go again. Another fracking "expert".

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Well as I keep saying I have a diploma in bingo calling....

 

 

[PortlandCanary 0]

Oh, a management consultant? Are you one of the Bobs?

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

A very balanced and thoughtful analysis, Overpaid.

I cannot comment on every point, but, as a management consultant, you will be familiar with the concept of "results driven business". The Premier League unquestionably fits into that category.

So, in the final reckoning, Hughton''s future will be determined by how many points he gets on the board, and NCFC''s position in the league. Whilst not condoning it, most fans will be prepared to overlook negative performances if we win games and stay well up the league.

You can debate formations and signings till the cows come home, but, basically, if we are looking safe then CH will remain manager. If not, he will be shown the door. End of.

[CDMullins 498]

Welcome, nice, clearly well thought post.

However I must disagree with you on many fronts.

Last years league position was simply outstanding, lots will say ''But we were only 5 points off 17th'' and that can be countered by ''We were only 5 points off 8th''

But the truth is, we finished 11th, our highest position in over 2 decades.

He didnt particularly have much of a budget last year, which makes the achievement even bigger.

This season he has brought in players to play a much more expansive, attacking positive and successful game. But Rome wasn''t built in a day, we have had a least 5 players that may become first team players out for the first 2 games. We didnt have a great or smooth pre-season so we are still learning and gelling. Yes Hughton''s set up and team selection on Saturday wasn''t great or what i''d have picked but to be having this conversation after 2 PL games is ridiculous.

Also, the old ''Hughton is too nice'' doesnt wash with me, non of us know what he is like behind closed doors. Some players will play better for managers they respect than for managers that shout the loudest. CH always comes accross very well infront of the media and thats exactly how it should be.

[lake district canary 4,823]

I find the "too nice" tag demeaning and innacurate.   It is a common fallacy that "nice" isn''t a leadership quality.   Its just different.   These days players have much more power than they used to and that means managers have to be much more diplomatic than they used to be. 

You can be "driven" and "nice" at the same time.    That Hughton has the respect of the football  community is something he - and we - should be proud of.  He hasn''t finished what he started.  If he fails to make the team gel with all the new players he has bought, then I will judge his fitness to lead.   It is too soon to declare him a failure.    I see you "know" we will be flirting with relegation.  If you can know that, then I can also know that we are going to improve immensely after a sticky start.     None of us knows, we can make guesses or predictions.  

I don''t disagree with everything you''ve said and I think Hughton has a lot to do to turn things in his favour - but I have confidence in him.   I know [;)] that he will turn it around.  He has  a higher quality squad - and what Hughton does is organise his teams, get them playing with fluidity and with confidence.  We saw it quite a few times last season, but struggled to sustain it given the quality in the squad.   This season will be better once the new players bed in.  I know it. [:)]

[nutty nigel 7,902]

As a bingo caller I am familiar with the concept of the four corners. I think if we defend the two in our half well we will be ok. However if we just concentrate on the two in the opposition''s half we could leave ourselves open. I have every faith in Haughton''s ability to know which two corners are important.

 

 

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

As a bingo caller I am familiar with the concept of the four corners. I think if we defend the two in our half well we will be ok. However if we just concentrate on the two in the opposition''s half we could leave ourselves open. I have every faith in Haughton''s ability to know which two corners are important.

 

 

[/quote]I''m not sure Howton knows where the opposition corners are.

[ricardo 8,033]

[quote user="Overrated Overpaid and Over Here"] Hughton will not pull that extra 10% out of the players like Lambert did nor will he be crafty enough to mastermind a win against all the odds. He''s nice and safe but we''re are in with the big boys now and the stakes are ''Sky'' high....[/quote]Plenty of opinion but with very little in the way of evidence to back it up.Lambert won the games we expected to win in the first Premier year. The games "against the odds" Man Utd, Arsenal, Man City all ended in defeats whereas Hughton managed to actually win against them.Lambert is gone, those years are history and we would do well to remember that during two thirds of his tenure we were in lower divisions. Chris Hughton has kept us up and I have no doubt will do so again this year. It seems to me that some people would prefer a promotion challenge in the Championship to a tough year in the Prem. Unfortunately the financial reality dictates that in this League there will always be a fair number of clubs with much better players than we can afford.Survival is what it''s all about and it will be nowhere near as exciting as the promotion years.Such is life.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

Thanks for that analysis, interesting reading and articulately put. I like Hughton, but I feel the one thing he and his teams are missing is what we were given in abundance with Lambert; the thing that got us up the divisions - Guile.

If Hughton could add some guile to our performances things would be so much better. Theres no doubting he''s brought in some excellent players. But he needs to get them playing

[BOO 0]

Excellent post, i think your views regarding CH leadership abilities are spot on. He has not shown the ability to get the most out of our players and motivate them, I often feel that there is no real buy in to what he is trying to do and that players are not always clear of what their role is in the team. It may even be a communication problem I don''t know, but what is obvious is that there is a lack of cohesion on the field, particularly when trying develop attacking options.

" My only hope is the likes of Fer, RVW and Hooper and Snodgrass and Bassong and Ruddy, the talent that IS THERE, deliver to the best of their ability more often than not despite how Hughton sets them up. Break the ranks and go for broke if you need to, they have the talent!! Then and only then, we will have a chance purely because their quality should see up rise above the newly promoted teams and a handful of premier league clubs that seem to go into melt down and free fall every season."

Again I couldn''t agree more, the quality of players we have may well pull us through, in spite of rather than because of the manager.

And yes I am sure he is a great bloke and well respected, but.......

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Well now Winky, as someone who had admitted that he credits the players when we do well but blames the manager when we don''t.. How is Hughton ever going to please you?

 

 

 

 

[Overrated, Overpaid and Over Here! 0]

Oops seems my ''management consultant'' line my have marked me out as a prat know it all. Genuinely isn''t the case on either counts. However, I do advise boards on CEO and leadership appointments.

My opinion on Hughton was formed largely last season and nothing I have seen so far this term has changed that. As I said, he needs at least 4 games to blend and gel HIS new squad before any concrete conclusions regarding his style and ability can be Proven. Like some of you say ''he''ll come good, we believe in him etc etc, that''s all I''m saying, I don''t believe he''ll be an amazing manager or elevate us as a club and largely because of his lack of real leadership. look at the way his players respond to him, do they look like they will run through walls for his cause. ALSO Holts comments need to be taken seriously, he was our captain and a worthy hall of famer. He clearly had an issue with Hughton and i would suspect there are other senior players who also share the same frustrations. To be fair he has a tough task and maybe our expectations are the flaw in this assessment. Like one of you said, this is a results driven business and ultimately that''s all that matters largely. My point is this league is so demanding and competitive with no easy games so teams need other elements to excel and that my friends is where managers and leadership come into it. Look at Jose at Chelsea. Do you think he is the greatest technical mind in football management.... Of course he isn''t but he''s an incredible leader.

[BOO 0]

For the record Nutty what I said was that I believed that our great performances in the last two games of last season, those two specific games, were more down to the players taking the initiative themselves than the managers sudden change of tactics.

I thought that I had made that point clearly, but if I had not and to assist I make it again.

[MyGodWeArePoorToWatch 0]

Wow, the first couple of answers sums up this forum to a T !''

People bitch and moan about decent discussion, yet someone takes the time to write a insightful post and gets the micky taken.

I for one think its a great insightful post, and ultimatly does sum up Chris Hughton .

Great post mate. I enjoyed reading it.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="Vanwink"]For the record Nutty what I said was that I believed that our great performances in the last two games of last season, those two specific games, were more down to the players taking the initiative themselves than the managers sudden change of tactics. I thought that I had made that point clearly, but if I had not and to assist I make it again.[/quote]

 

Yes but as in your signature I''m enjoying taking your post out of context. What''s good for the goose and all that..

 

He who lives by the sword...

 

 

[BOO 0]

There you go!

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[Y]

 

 

[T 191]

[quote user="MyGodWeArePoorToWatch"]Wow, the first couple of answers sums up this forum to a T !'' People bitch and moan about decent discussion, yet someone takes the time to write a insightful post and gets the micky taken. I for one think its a great insightful post, and ultimatly does sum up Chris Hughton . Great post mate. I enjoyed reading it.[/quote]

 

How is that insightful when it is just someone''s subjective opinion  with absolutely no objective evidence to support the OP''s assertions. If CH is not one of the 20 best managers in the country then again how did he manage to be the second most effective in the premier league last season?

[MyGodWeArePoorToWatch 0]

[quote user="T"]

[quote user="MyGodWeArePoorToWatch"]Wow, the first couple of answers sums up this forum to a T !'' People bitch and moan about decent discussion, yet someone takes the time to write a insightful post and gets the micky taken. I for one think its a great insightful post, and ultimatly does sum up Chris Hughton . Great post mate. I enjoyed reading it.[/quote]

 

How is that insightful when it is just someone''s subjective opinion  with absolutely no objective evidence to support the OP''s assertions. If CH is not one of the 20 best managers in the country then again how did he manage to be the second most effective in the premier league last season?

[/quote]

Based on what ? some stupid statistic to fit your own agenda ???

[T 191]

No. wage cost per point. Its the basic standard performance measure used to measure how well manager''s have used their financial resources and allow for the signifigant variances in funds between clubs. Its an objective measure where as the OP is making assertions without offering any objective evidence or rationale to support his claims. Statistics are not inherently stupid only those people who do not understand them.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

It''s unbelievable really T. Hughton over performed last season and yet doesn''t even get one game''s grace this. In fact a 2-2 draw with Everton is viewed as failure.

 

 

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

It''s unbelievable really T. Hughton over performed last season and yet doesn''t even get one game''s grace this. In fact a 2-2 draw with Everton is viewed as failure.

 

 

[/quote]Even with 5 first teamers out

[JC 0]

Some interesting points and whilst I don''t agree with them I respect what you are saying

With regards to the "Nice Guy" tag. Hughton is a nice guy to the media, articulate etc. He also is honest in his analysis (he doesn''t use a tag line for every post match interview like Lambert did). Behind closed doors when he needs to be he can dish out the hairdryer like the best of them.

He also has more time for the development of the youth team and spends more time with them. Lambert gave no attention (wouldn''t even chat with) the youth players whereas it is widely acknowledged that Hughton takes the time to be available and talk with the youth players (some interesting comments from some of the youth players in interviews and also on twitter about this).

We can debate the aptitude of Hughton, but with football the one thing that matters is the results. As mentioned in one of the previous posts the 11th place finish is our best for years, when it mattered last season the players didn’t shirk away (like the Fulham match in ’05). The fact that there is any debate about Hughton this early into a season is a joke. The Everton result was a good result, the Hull one (from someone who attended the game) was ruined by the Red Card which when already ahead compacted the Hull defence and made them really hard to break down (if Snodgrass was fit and started would have been a different result). These things happen, the day after our loss away at Hull, Man City lost away at Cardiff. Everyone loses games against teams deemed lesser in ability. I think it has all been forgotten that last season we were able to beat four of the top 6 Man U, Arsenal, Man City, Everton

[Bryangunnshairline 0]

"nor will he be crafty enough to mastermind a win against all the odds"

man utd at home 1 - 0 city arsenal at home 1 - 0 cityman city away  3 - 2 citytell me a top 4/6 team lambert was crafty enough to mastermind a win aganst all the odds ?????????????????????  ....................

[GJP 79]

[quote user="CDMullins"] Also, the old ''Hughton is too nice'' doesnt wash with me, non of us know what he is like behind closed doors.  [/quote]

I agree. I think it''s naive to think that the polite and friendly way Hughton presents himself to the media is the only side to the guy.

 

Like Paul Lambert he has very, very high standards. If people need telling then they get told.

[Bobert 0]

Do you ever go to a game?

[Houston Canary 0]

Rating managers on points per money spent is not reliable unless you factor in how each additional point earned costs on average much more. Put another way, the first 40 points, which almost every team earns, cost much less than the 2nd 40 points, which are earned by only the elite.

If the equation rates each point equal, then inevitably low budget midtable managers will rank highest. But how long will that dog sing?

[BOO 0]

CDMullins wrote:

Also, the old ''Hughton is too nice'' doesnt wash with me, non of us know what he is like behind closed doors.

No non of us do know what CH is like behind closed doors, an insight from Derek Llambias MD of Newcastle as to why they sacked him.

"But Llambias wanted somebody who would speak their mind in the managerial hotseat – and he admitted that he and Pardew regular have rows over business. He said: “I wanted somebody who was going to sit down with me and give it back to me, somebody who wasn’t frightened."

He has his own agenda obviously but interesting remark.