Chris Hughton out, yes or no?

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Dr Crafty Canary"]the meeting with Mr Bowkett was nothing to do with inspecting Mr McNally''s contract...[/quote]Are you suggesting that when Tangy made his (long since deleted) opening post on his infamous thread regarding McNally''s bonus he wasn''t telling the truth?"I have had a look at Mr. McNally’s contract and to

clarify some of the facts regarding the bonuses and other issues I have

had a face to face meeting  with Mr. Bowkett at his personal invitation"Tangy did explain later that he had looked at the contract with the ''financial director'' and not with Bowkett, but he clearly stated he had discussed it with him.Were you there Crafty? Did he make it up? Now I''m really confused.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

Really not sure what many fan''s expectations are, but the reality is that if we establish ourselves in the Premier League then we''re looking forward to a future of finishing somewhere between ninth and fifteen, if we are not to be too worried about the risk of relegation. That''s a narrow band of just six places and we will need to continually improve the team just to prevent us from dropping into the danger zone.

 

Chris Hughton is achieving that which was asked of him at the beginning of the season so how can the possibility of his losing his job ever arise? He''s brought in quality signings, he gave us a record unbeaten run, he has made us an impregnable fortress at home, he taken the scalps of Man U, Everton, and Arsenal plus Spurs in the Cup. These are impressive acheivments and all done on a shoe-string budget.

 

Now most of the objection to the manager seems to focus on the style of play in the second half of the season. But we know that is acknowledged and being addressed with the arrival of RVW in the summer. Plus it has been let slip that we are looking for fast wide men and attacking wingers.

Now if the club were in denial and saying everything was ok and we need prudence with ambition then I would be the first to criticize. But that simply isn''t the case. We are spending large sums to invest in the playing squad and we will be a PL club next season and one with a different playing style to this season. But even so, the best we can expect is somewhere around ninth place.

 

 

 

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

Out. I''d rather spend 90 minutes listening to IDS droning on than at Carrow Road at the moment. His football is some of the least entertaining fare imaginable, and we could still go down to boot. If Lambo was still here, I feel sure we would already have enough points for safety. Hughton seems to have managed to have killed off any attacking flair in our team. Bye bye.

[nutty nigel 7,534]

[quote user="Truculent Trucker"]Out. I''d rather spend 90 minutes listening to IDS droning on than at Carrow Road at the moment. His football is some of the least entertaining fare imaginable, and we could still go down to boot. If Lambo was still here, I feel sure we would already have enough points for safety. Hughton seems to have managed to have killed off any attacking flair in our team. Bye bye.[/quote]

 

Villa will surely finish above us then....

 

 

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

If you say so, Nutty.

[nutty nigel 7,534]

Well they must because their fans simply love the style of play. Or do they....

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Dr Crafty Canary"]the meeting with Mr Bowkett was nothing to do with inspecting Mr McNally''s contract...[/quote]

Are you suggesting that when Tangy made his (long since deleted) opening post on his infamous thread regarding McNally''s bonus he wasn''t telling the truth?

"I have had a look at Mr. McNally’s contract and to clarify some of the facts regarding the bonuses and other issues I have had a face to face meeting  with Mr. Bowkett at his personal invitation"

Tangy did explain later that he had looked at the contract with the ''financial director'' and not with Bowkett, but he clearly stated he had discussed it with him.

Were you there Crafty? Did he make it up? Now I''m really confused.


[/quote]

24 hours later Lapp and i assume you are still confused ? [;)]

[Stig 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Well they must because their fans simply love the style of play. Or do they....

 

 

[/quote]

I''m pretty sure last night (Or this saturday) will be the highlight of their season. Whereas ours is either the hottly contested Swansea game or Man U/Arsenal. In any of those games we could have lost/drawn at a moments notice. Villa put themselves above and beyond the competition, something not witnessed at Carrow Road AT ALL this season. Lambert has a totally different squad, a worse squad than ours, and he is working his usual magic apparently. So yes, if he was here we would already be safe, and we would have had a more entertaining season. Though I concede we wouldn''t have the F in FCR and the scalps of Utd/Arsenal/Everton but we would have won against Southampton, Reading, West Ham, QPR, Newcastle, Sunderland and that is a theoretical 18 points.

Yes, I long for those days. I am so so bored of this season. The football is dross, the press conferences are dire and the results are unflattering and entirely predictable. We flounder about against equal or worse opposition because Chris Hughton is the one wetting his pants over the fact he feels we can''t win. If I were the players I would be insulted that he thinks so little of them that he doesn''t give them any free reign to tear up the pitch and give it a go.

One thing I''ve missed all too much this season is a good old shot on target. Someone running up the pitch, passing to the opposite flank, maybe a cross back in and a well placed shot into the back of the net. A shot from open play is all I ask, but obviously we aren''t allowed to do that for some reason.

I''m planning on doing a season review come 17:00 on the last day of the season. In my current frame of mind, it''s not going to be a glowing review. All season there have been failings that haven''t been felt for three years, from the transfer windows to matchdays, this season has been pure dross.

If we survive, Hughton gets five games (Not including pre-season, though I reckon we will get to see whether he plans to continue this treadmill version of football) to prove whether he does in fact have a plan B.

[ron obvious 1,502]

Lambert has a worse squad than ours???!!!

What in God''s name are you talking about???

Benteke?

Weimann?

Lowton?

Bent?

Vlaar?

Agbonlahor?

N''Zogbia?

And a few more probably.

We have about 3 or 4 genuine premiership players (& one of those has been out injured for months).

We rely on them playing above themselves week in, week out.

If you don''t believe me, ask yourself this: how many other teams would want our players - except, perhaps, as 3rd back-up???

If we stay up, it will have been a remarkable achievement.

[Stig 0]

Well if you think Villa''s squad is better than ours go and support them. At the end of the day I believe our squad is better, only Benteke is better.

[Tumbleweed 106]

Hughton seems to have taken away that belief which turned a mediocre squad into an effective unit last season. The squad is better this year, but results have been poor (the only teams to have won fewer games than us have already been relegated), the football turgid, the tactics negative, the substitutions uninspiring and the team look frightened of doing anything wrong which leads to a sterile, safety first apporach. It is Hughton''s responsibility to get the best out of what he has available, which includes a number of his own signings, and to me he is failing to do that. Going to Old Trafford intent on defending is perhaps understandable, going to Stoke, Wigan and Southampton with that attitude is unforgiveable.

 

Scoring so few goals means that the margins for error at the back are minimal, in fact non existent. Yet we still don''t have a good enough defence to make this a viable strategy without further strenthening, that is why our midfield sits so deep as virtual defenders but is still vulnerable to attacking midefielders running on to them and outnumbering us.

 

What seems to concern many fans on here and to whom I speak is that our rivals all seem able to up their game if necessary so while all have had bad recent results they are unpredictable and capable of pulling out a top performance; at least creating opportunities to score and win. We are just too meek and it is harder to imagine us doing what Villa did last night, Sunderland themselves did to Everton and Newcastle and Wigan so nearly did to Man City and Spurs. Pinning our hopes on a  home game against a team who just ripped an improving Southampton to shreds is not comforting.

 

I don''t buy into the theory that you need a disaster scenario to make a change. Hughton''s team now, despite the spending on players, is no better or convincing than the Hughton team we saw in the pre season friendlies and we are again trying to scratch around for results as in the first part of the season. It is only that good run of 10 games or so which has given us a decent chance of staying up. But things are not working out, I don''t see signs of progression and I am sceptical about what will happen over the summer to change things. It is not just about players but the whole approach.

 

With a manager it is a binary issue: is the team performing better than the sum of its parts or worse? With the most generous interpretation this is level, but in my opinion it is the latter.

 

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="ron obvious"]Lambert has a worse squad than ours???!!!

What in God''s name are you talking about???

Benteke?

Weimann?

Lowton?

Bent?

Vlaar?

Agbonlahor?

N''Zogbia?[/quote]Hang on a minute.Firstly I''ll happily concede the point on Benteke, he''s been way above any of our strikers this season (although the Holt from last year offered more IMHO).Weimann and Lowton are both good young players, but certainly not the finished article and I don''t see Lowton as being better than any of our current fullbacks at this point (maybe in a couple of years, but not now), and we''ve already discussed our woeful strike force this season so Weimann wouldn''t struggle to be better at this point...Bent has hardly played, and when he has he''s looked bloody awful, so for that matter has N''Zogbia. You can''t base your judgment purely on the fact that they were good a year or more ago, they''ve been crap this season and I''d take Pilks or Snoddy over N''Zog every day of the week.Vlaar has been solid, nothing more, nothing less, certainly hasn''t looked any better than Bassong or Turner in the games I''ve seen.But what about the other dross you''re conveniently not mentioning? Both Ruddy and Bunn are better keepers than Guzan, I''d take our current backline over theirs given the choice (might change in a year or two however), and they''ve suffered from the same lack of performance in their central midfield as we have.I''d argue that there''s very little between the two squads from a quality perspective this season, and although they''re currently below us in the table, they''ve played much more attractive football to watch than we have in most cases, but that doesn''t automatically win you games (as the league position clearly shows).If we''d have shown a more positive attitude in a number of games, we''d likely already be safe and not even having this conversation because the result wouldn''t be as relevant as it could be now. This is all down the the approach by Hughton, and this is why a number of us think he should be moved on in the summer, so that we can bring in someone who actively looks to win games, rather than simply not lose them and hope to get a goal from a set play etc...

[ron obvious 1,502]

Stig wrote

"Well if you think Villa''s squad is better than ours go and support them. At the end of the day I believe our squad is better, only Benteke is better."

So, that''s how it works is it? You support the team with the best squad do you?

Have a think about that for a moment.

You really are very, very immature.

[nutty nigel 7,534]

[quote user="Stig"]Well if you think Villa''s squad is better than ours go and support them. At the end of the day I believe our squad is better, only Benteke is better.[/quote]

 

If you think Villa''s manager is better than ours go and support them!

 

Of course I don''t mean that but you invite such comments.

 

What I would say is that if Lambert''s squad at Villa isn''t better than ours then he has failed. Because he left us to go there so that he could assemble a better squad than ours.

 

 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="Rock The Boat"]

Really not sure what many fan''s expectations are, but the reality is that if we establish ourselves in the Premier League then we''re looking forward to a future of finishing somewhere between ninth and fifteen, if we are not to be too worried about the risk of relegation. That''s a narrow band of just six places and we will need to continually improve the team just to prevent us from dropping into the danger zone.

 

Chris Hughton is achieving that which was asked of him at the beginning of the season so how can the possibility of his losing his job ever arise? He''s brought in quality signings, he gave us a record unbeaten run, he has made us an impregnable fortress at home, he taken the scalps of Man U, Everton, and Arsenal plus Spurs in the Cup. These are impressive acheivments and all done on a shoe-string budget.

 

Now most of the objection to the manager seems to focus on the style of play in the second half of the season. But we know that is acknowledged and being addressed with the arrival of RVW in the summer. Plus it has been let slip that we are looking for fast wide men and attacking wingers.

Now if the club were in denial and saying everything was ok and we need prudence with ambition then I would be the first to criticize. But that simply isn''t the case. We are spending large sums to invest in the playing squad and we will be a PL club next season and one with a different playing style to this season. But even so, the best we can expect is somewhere around ninth place.

 

 

 

[/quote]

I think it depends on whether you judge a manager on an arbitrary target set at the start of the season (i.e. staying up) or on a judgment as to whether he is getting the best out of the team and the players at his disposal and therefore the man to take us forward.

I would suggest that in respect of the former, whilst we will have to wait another few weeks, it looks like Hughton is just about going to achieve his target and on that basis getting rid of the manager would be very harsh. It certainly would not happen in many other walks of life or businesses as it would no doubt lead to a major employment claim!

That said we are frequently reminded that football is not like other businesses!

On the second question I would have to say that right now I do not believe he is getting the best out of the current playing staff and has not done so for some time. Is it acceptable that we are in the position we are in given where we sat in the table prior to Christmas? Is it acceptable that we go into every away game without a shred of belief amongst the fans (and possibly the players and management staff) that we can win? Its not as simplistic as saying he has underperformed since the end of the unbeaten run as we had some hard fixtures at that point in time but i do believe that since January Hughton has lost his way a bit and the team have consequently lost their sense of belief and purpose. I''m not 100% sure several of the players really buy into how he is asking them to play or particularly like it. Whether or not this is enough to justify sacking a manager is obviously a judgment call and one that will have to be made b y the board. My own view is that i would not be that upset if he left in the summer but i think they will give him the early part of next season to show that he can produce a team that offers more in an attacking sense and on balance i think that''s probably the right thing to do.

I certainly would not replace him with the likes of O''Neill!

[ron obvious 1,502]

Indy_Bones

I agree with a lot you say, but Vlaar is a prime example - he is on a level with our best players, & they''ve got several at that level. Also I agree our goalie quality is better.

However, for the rest I believe AV have the edge - I''d take Agbonlahor & Weimann over Pilks & Snodgrass (Pilkington can be fantastic, but he goes missing/ is injured far too often, Snoddy''s just too damn slow).

Do we have any players capable of scoring a goal like Lowton''s?

OK, I''ve probably overstated the difference - but I still believe it''s ridiculous to say their squad is worse than ours. I''ve said elsewhere that we''re only about three players away from being a decent team - but those players need to be in the RVW class (assuming all the expectation is realised!), players who can occasionally change a game in an instant.

Roll on next season!

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="Stig"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Well they must because their fans simply love the style of play. Or do they....

 

 

[/quote]

I''m pretty sure last night (Or this saturday) will be the highlight of their season. Whereas ours is either the hottly contested Swansea game or Man U/Arsenal. In any of those games we could have lost/drawn at a moments notice. Villa put themselves above and beyond the competition, something not witnessed at Carrow Road AT ALL this season. Lambert has a totally different squad, a worse squad than ours, and he is working his usual magic apparently. So yes, if he was here we would already be safe, and we would have had a more entertaining season. Though I concede we wouldn''t have the F in FCR and the scalps of Utd/Arsenal/Everton but we would have won against Southampton, Reading, West Ham, QPR, Newcastle, Sunderland and that is a theoretical 18 points.

Yes, I long for those days. I am so so bored of this season. The football is dross, the press conferences are dire and the results are unflattering and entirely predictable. We flounder about against equal or worse opposition because Chris Hughton is the one wetting his pants over the fact he feels we can''t win. If I were the players I would be insulted that he thinks so little of them that he doesn''t give them any free reign to tear up the pitch and give it a go.

One thing I''ve missed all too much this season is a good old shot on target. Someone running up the pitch, passing to the opposite flank, maybe a cross back in and a well placed shot into the back of the net. A shot from open play is all I ask, but obviously we aren''t allowed to do that for some reason.

I''m planning on doing a season review come 17:00 on the last day of the season. In my current frame of mind, it''s not going to be a glowing review. All season there have been failings that haven''t been felt for three years, from the transfer windows to matchdays, this season has been pure dross.

If we survive, Hughton gets five games (Not including pre-season, though I reckon we will get to see whether he plans to continue this treadmill version of football) to prove whether he does in fact have a plan B.

[/quote]

In fairness the notion that Lambert has a worse squad than us is nonsense and its only because he made such an almighty mess of parts of the first half of the season that Villa have struggled as they have done.

Any squad with Benteke, Bent, Agbonlahor and Weimann as striking options with the likes of Nzogbia and Delph in midfield should really have done a lot better than they have done. If he had sorted out their defence in the summer like he should have done then Villa would not have been in the relegation battle.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Both Ruddy and Bunn are better keepers than Guzan, [/quote]

Ruddy might be but Bunn definitely isn''t.

 

Guzan is very, very good.

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Dr Crafty Canary"]Oh, that''s right, you don''t know how to go about it. Much better to have a go at those that do.[/quote]

As you know, those that know, know, those that don''t, don''t know.

I know what I know. [<:o)]
[/quote]

Does this quote from Tangible on an old thread make it any clearer Lapp ?

I''m not got going to give you any clarification or help in how I came to see Mr. McNally''s contract and it would be unprofessional of me to reveal the conditions within his contract.

 

 

 

[Mister Chops 7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C6Utr027QY