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Baldyboy

Next season

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If we stay up, and I do think we will, would you still accept the current brand of football we are playing under Hughton? By that I mean setting up to defend and nick a goal or would you expect to see him develop a more attacking style of play?

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Next season Hughton will have had the opportunity to improve the squad that he has built so far.

His first priority was the defence, bringing in a goalkeeper, four defenders and a defensive midfielder.

I think I will be happy if the players he brings in for more attacking roles are of the same quality and have the same benefit to us as Bassong, Turner, Whittaker, Garido, and Tettey.

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I''d expect to see more of our deadwood out and us to really start seeing "Hughton''s" squad. Whether that will change the tight game we''ve adopted I don''t know, but hopefully when he''s brought in more of his own players he''ll be more confident in bringing them on and changing it up when need be.

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I think we would see a slightly more attacking brand of football.

It would be the same system, but with a little more emphasis based on attacking.

If you look at Hughton''s teams at Newcastle and Birmingham they were both attacking teams (Newcastle had the most wins in the Championship during his time there, and Birmingham scored the most away goals in England during the season he was there (41 I think)

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No body was complaining about our set up when we beat Man. Utd. by the one goal.

Having said that I do hope we go offensive against a Fulham side that are poor away from home. http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/emoticons/emotion-5.gif

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you say nobody was complaining about Newcastle in the Champs and you are right, however when they got in the Prem and played the way we do currently, people did complain which led to his sacking!!

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Its difficult to say.  Being realistic, we''re not gonna be challenging for European places in the league.  We may have a cup run again, but ultimately, its about surviving, as there will be another £60million or so for finishing 17th.

 

Whilst it would be nice to kick on, very few teams manage to break into the top 6 or 7 on a regular basis.  Sunderland had a go a few years back the best they managed was 7th I think.  Likewise Fulham.  Stoke have had an 8th or 9th and a cup final.  WBA were flirting with the top 6, but seem to be fading a bit.  Swansea are going fairly well, and have kept similar ethics and principals from last season, but how long they can keep it up, and how far they can go remains to be seen.  I''m sure there fans are delighted with 9th or 10th, and a trip to Wembley and a very winnable cup final.

 

Unless there are some radical changes to the structure of football, how money is generated, distributed and spent, the best we can hope for really is to be safe by the end of March.  If that means playing the way we have then so be it.  In order to break into the mid table safety group, its required a 10''s of millions of £££ spent by Stoke and Fulham, we''re not gonna all of a sudden sign 5 or 6 players for 7 or 8 million each.  We might be fortunate in the summer, and add 2 or 3 players of say, Bassong''s quality to other areas of the squad, but I doubt there''s gonna be a major overhaul.

 

So in conclusion, I''m not really fussed how we play.  Its best for the club just to stay up for as long as we can. 

 

As for the dead wood someone mentioned above, is there that much?  I think its fair to say most fans would like a few players to be given a chance.  Some players got that chance against Luton, and failed miserably, but by a chance, I mean a run in the team.  By dead wood, are we talking Fox, Tierney, Barnett, Surman, Jackson, Chrissy boy, Korey, Francombe?  The earlier few names performed excellent last season, and led us to what could be our best finish for a long while.  I doubt there will be many more than 4, maybe 5 signings in the summer.

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Clearly our style will need to change for the club to progress. What we are doing is good enough to nick a few wins and get us enough points to stay in the league but to progress you need to turn the draws into wins and so on.

 

I think it''s a little worrying how badly we faded in the second half in the last two games. Struggling to get the ball out of our own half against both Spurs and QPR and when we did we were rarely able to make it stick. That needs to be addressed by the manager.

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[quote user="GJP"]

Clearly our style will need to change for the club to progress. What we are doing is good enough to nick a few wins and get us enough points to stay in the league but to progress you need to turn the draws into wins and so on.

 

I think it''s a little worrying how badly we faded in the second half in the last two games. Struggling to get the ball out of our own half against both Spurs and QPR and when we did we were rarely able to make it stick. That needs to be addressed by the manager.

[/quote]

Your point about the second half of games.  Lets just put a little perspective, I didn;t watch the Spurs game, but they are a top 5 side for a reason.  They have enough good players to be able to go for it when they need to.  They''d have come to Carrow road expecting something from the game, so when they go behind, they may as well lose 2-0 and try than 1-0 and not.  The QPR game was another case of poo or bust.  Draws aren''t any good for QPR, they had to up the tempo and take the game to us.  I''m sure Harry knows how we''ve been playing, and knew his team could attack.  It left them open, and we should probably have won due to their lack of chances and creativity and finishing by their attackers.

 

 

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ok then Jed explain why he was so cautious against Newcastle at home recently, people cannot keep sugar coating this system saying we could have lost because the flip side is that we could have won with a bit more attacking nous!!! These players have gone from attacking players last season to defensive players with the look of rabbits in headlights in six months!!! We cannot scrape by with the odd draw and the two defeats, at some time Hughton needs to try and win a game by more than one goal, something we have failed to do all season, if it comes to needing to beat Man city on the last day we will be screwed thanks to this defensive policy!!!

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I just don''t agree that we are set up defensively.

We play with four incredibly attacking forward players in Holt, Hoolahan, Snodgrass and Pilks.

Johnson and Tettey are probably more defensively minded than your usual you''d probably say but then none of our other central midfielders right now can do a decent job of breaking up play - and you need two players that can do that in the middle of the park.

We do play more defensively without Bassong as we have a tendency to drop deaper - something noted by other people.

But in my mind we don''t set up defensively at all. I still think someone like Bridcutt would be ideal - who can move the ball on that bit quicker - I think you would see the difference then.

As I have said before - we are very much middle of the road - we are not ultra defensive like Stoke, West Ham or the Bolton''s/Blackburns of days gone by. But we are better attacking wise than our place in the table suggests.

We have gone three games unbeaten again - would you trade that for one win and two losses? I wouldn''t.

Also having watched the QPR game and seen the stats - we were attacking in every sense - I just felt that Holt wasn''t his usual self and Hoolahan struggled to pull the strings. Other than that we had several periods of really good attacking possession and pressure in their half, in and around the area.

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[quote user="baldyboy"]ok then Jed explain why he was so cautious against Newcastle at home recently, people cannot keep sugar coating this system saying we could have lost because the flip side is that we could have won with a bit more attacking nous!!! These players have gone from attacking players last season to defensive players with the look of rabbits in headlights in six months!!! We cannot scrape by with the odd draw and the two defeats, at some time Hughton needs to try and win a game by more than one goal, something we have failed to do all season, if it comes to needing to beat Man city on the last day we will be screwed thanks to this defensive policy!!!
[/quote]

 

I dunno why he was cautious against Newc.  Perhaps after 4 straight defeats, he wanted to stop the rot. 

 

I don;t always agree with Hughton''s tactics, and yep, it''d be nice if we did go for it a bit more often.  Its not been very attractive to watch, but in saying that, we have put in some really excellent performances and not quite got the results, likewise, we''ve put in some turd performances and been hammered. 

 

To be fair, we are getting by.  Its not pretty at all, Saturday was difficult to watch, but we are picking up points, the losses in the last 8 have been against Chelsea, Man City, WBA, West Ham and Liverpool and obviousley Luton in the cup was a very low point.  Realistically, the best we could''ve hoped for from those 5 was 3, maybe 4 points.  If we''d had a bit of luck on our side we could''ve got something from Chelsea and Man City, and probably West Ham.  The 3 draws, again, 2 could easily have been wins against Spurs and QPR.

 

I understand the frustrations, but the goal for this season is to stay up, it will be next year, and probably the year after.  Hughton''s sticking with what he''s seen to work.  It hasn''t work great over the last moth or so, but, looking at the home fictures still to come, we will pick up enough points to stay up, and before we get to Man City.

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[quote user="baldyboy"]ok then Jed explain why he was so cautious against Newcastle at home recently, people cannot keep sugar coating this system saying we could have lost because the flip side is that we could have won with a bit more attacking nous!!! These players have gone from attacking players last season to defensive players with the look of rabbits in headlights in six months!!! We cannot scrape by with the odd draw and the two defeats, at some time Hughton needs to try and win a game by more than one goal, something we have failed to do all season, if it comes to needing to beat Man city on the last day we will be screwed thanks to this defensive policy!!![/quote]

Because Newcastle shouldn''t anywhere near where they are with the array of attacking options they have. Every single player they field in midfield and up front can score goals.

If you wan''t to go all out attack you simply play into their strengths - pace, good passing and midfielders who are capable of incredible through balls or long range shots.

Compare that to QPR who in my mind did very little other than the pen, and one or two long range efforts. Infact I would say they lined up more defensively than us, just that Taraabt can be a more influential player than Hoolahan.

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baldyboy - ok then Jed explain why he was so cautious against Newcastle at home recently, people cannot keep sugar coating this system saying we could have lost because the flip side is that we could have won with a bit more attacking nous!!! These players have gone from attacking players last season to defensive players with the look of rabbits in headlights in six months!!! We cannot scrape by with the odd draw and the two defeats, at some time Hughton needs to try and win a game by more than one goal, something we have failed to do all season, if it comes to needing to beat Man city on the last day we will be screwed thanks to this defensive policy!!!

What players baldy?

Bunn, Turner, Bassong, Garido, Tettey and Snodgrass weren''t here. That''s more than half the team.

The defenders now defend and with a purpose.

Be patient, be hopeful, as I am, that the next batch of players brought in by Hughton will be as effective attacking as the ones he has so far brought in are as effective defending.

The defence was the priority and that has been improved. Live in hope for the next part of the work in progress.

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[quote user="chicken"][quote user="baldyboy"]ok then Jed explain why he was so cautious against Newcastle at home recently, people cannot keep sugar coating this system saying we could have lost because the flip side is that we could have won with a bit more attacking nous!!! These players have gone from attacking players last season to defensive players with the look of rabbits in headlights in six months!!! We cannot scrape by with the odd draw and the two defeats, at some time Hughton needs to try and win a game by more than one goal, something we have failed to do all season, if it comes to needing to beat Man city on the last day we will be screwed thanks to this defensive policy!!!
[/quote] Because Newcastle shouldn''t anywhere near where they are with the array of attacking options they have. Every single player they field in midfield and up front can score goals. If you wan''t to go all out attack you simply play into their strengths - pace, good passing and midfielders who are capable of incredible through balls or long range shots. Compare that to QPR who in my mind did very little other than the pen, and one or two long range efforts. Infact I would say they lined up more defensively than us, just that Taraabt can be a more influential player than Hoolahan.[/quote]

 

Totally agree, was surprised QPR were that defensive. I know that team had brought them good results against Man City, Chelsea etc for a ''must win'' game I expected to see them be more attacking.

 

They basically had 2 denfensive midfielders sitting very deep in front of their two centre backs - although Norwich set out that way also, Tettey and Johnson offer much more going forward than Mbia (a centre back converted to midfield) and Derry. I can''t remember Traroe or Fabio overlapping much either. Until Hughton gets in more players to suit his style Norwich will start with a defence first tactic - the attempted signings in January shows he wanted to start to strenghten that area of the pitch already, but was priced out of the market. I''m looking forward to seeing who arrives next summer already.

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[quote user="jed exodous"][quote user="GJP"]

Clearly our style will need to change for the club to progress. What we are doing is good enough to nick a few wins and get us enough points to stay in the league but to progress you need to turn the draws into wins and so on.

 

I think it''s a little worrying how badly we faded in the second half in the last two games. Struggling to get the ball out of our own half against both Spurs and QPR and when we did we were rarely able to make it stick. That needs to be addressed by the manager.

[/quote]

Your point about the second half of games.  Lets just put a little perspective, I didn;t watch the Spurs game, but they are a top 5 side for a reason.  They have enough good players to be able to go for it when they need to.  They''d have come to Carrow road expecting something from the game, so when they go behind, they may as well lose 2-0 and try than 1-0 and not.  The QPR game was another case of poo or bust.  Draws aren''t any good for QPR, they had to up the tempo and take the game to us.  I''m sure Harry knows how we''ve been playing, and knew his team could attack.  It left them open, and we should probably have won due to their lack of chances and creativity and finishing by their attackers.

[/quote]

I think it''s somewhat irrelevent what both those sides were playing for and the ability/quality they possession. We''re out there trying to win games too.

 

In both games we quite clearly ran out of steam early in the second half. We were sitting deep and struggled to keep the ball or find any real cohesion going forward. The performances of Holt and Hoolahan dipped badly in both games. Fair enough if they''ve absolutely bust a gut and they''ve nothing left in the tank but where does it leave us if we just have to accept that and hope the other side doesn''t score?

 

Obviously Becchio will relieve a bit of the strain on Holt but why couldn''t he have been involved sooner against QPR? Likewise why was it that we didn''t make a change until after Spurs had scored? They were dominating midfield and it was obvious we were struggling to match their energy but we played on until Bale managed to steam through the middle of the park and put the ball in.

 

Could just be a bit of a blip but there is a little bit of staleness creeping in and we''re surely becoming quite predictable now so it''ll be interesting to see how we do in upcoming games.

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This has been a season to consolidate by improving the defence, and in this CH is gradually getting it right. Clearly the loss, or loss of form, of Bassong, and to a lesser extent Tettey, would be a problem. Apart from the few games when errors conceded a high proportion of goals scored against us, we have looked tight, even against the most attacking sides.

The defence is not a finished article Three of the back four lack pace, and struggle against quick attackers. Tackling back wingers and the two lines of four defenders are designed to overcome this as far as possible.

 

So football could become a more exhilarating next season if CH manages to find some skillful and quick players, but apart from Benno there is a lack of pace throughout the team. At our best we move the ball quickly by passing, but accuracy has declined recently and perhaps also confidence.

 

Team building will not be completed in one summer of new signings, even though CH will have a whole inter-season period with us this year. The players we need are either out of contract or expesnive, but I hope that we can also find strikers who are quick and clinical in their finishing.

 

Will the style change? I hope so. With squad skill and pace improvements we could become more fluid and exciting.

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whilst we my have btter defenders, have we improve the defence though? the stats say not as we have conceded more than we had at the same point, but we have kept more clean sheets, which is an improvement but we have had more thumpings too!!Chicken you say about the attacking players we have in the likes of Holt, they are only effective if we give them service which means when we break up play get the ball forward a bit quicker, we do not do this enough for me, I dont know why I wish I did. the likes of Pilkington seem reluctant to take a man on and beat him all the time, and we seem to go sideways too much which then gives the opposition time to defend and we give the ball away far too often, these are all things which for me have to improve, and I really hope they will. As I say I am sure we will stay up but the onus next season has to be on more quality going forward, especially if we really are serious about trying to get better quality strikers than we already have!

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[quote user="chicken"]I just don''t agree that we are set up defensively.

We play with four incredibly attacking forward players in Holt, Hoolahan, Snodgrass and Pilks.

Johnson and Tettey are probably more defensively minded than your usual you''d probably say but then none of our other central midfielders right now can do a decent job of breaking up play - and you need two players that can do that in the middle of the park.

We do play more defensively without Bassong as we have a tendency to drop deaper - something noted by other people.

But in my mind we don''t set up defensively at all. I still think someone like Bridcutt would be ideal - who can move the ball on that bit quicker - I think you would see the difference then.

As I have said before - we are very much middle of the road - we are not ultra defensive like Stoke, West Ham or the Bolton''s/Blackburns of days gone by. But we are better attacking wise than our place in the table suggests.

We have gone three games unbeaten again - would you trade that for one win and two losses? I wouldn''t.

Also having watched the QPR game and seen the stats - we were attacking in every sense - I just felt that Holt wasn''t his usual self and Hoolahan struggled to pull the strings. Other than that we had several periods of really good attacking possession and pressure in their half, in and around the area.[/quote]Hoolahan isn''t good enough, and tactical changes are poor. 

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I think Hughton will increase our options in terms of formation, tactics, etc. He''s found a system that, by and large, works for us and he''s developing the squad to enhance that and, I think ultimately, enable us to play varying formations.

It''s a little harsh on the players that may leave to call them dead wood - we all know that players come and go, but that does not make them a failure in any way - it''s more to do with who suits the tactics we''re employing and who the manager and his staff rate which is very subjective.

Because I have a lot of faith in Hughton I believe that he will change the squad and possibly some fan favourites may leave, but it will be with the aim of strengthening the squad and helping to establish us as a regular premiership team - once this season is out of the way, providing we do stay up, we will be much more financially secure and the spectre of 2nd season syndrom will be gone.

Plus, if Hughton gets the chance to add 3 or 4 players of quality to our squad every season, we''ll be much better off playing wise. Unfortunately, Hughton does not have the luxury of bringing in several players in one go...but then perhaps that suits us, so we can retain the team spirit we have had over the last few years.

 

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Both Tettey and Johnson need to improve passing, and may be Russell Martin is needed to be converted to centre back so he can play along side Bassong and then we can put Whittaker RB or get a more pacier one. 

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[quote user="baldyboy"]you say nobody was complaining about Newcastle in the Champs and you are right, however when they got in the Prem and played the way we do currently, people did complain which led to his sacking!![/quote]

You ask any Newcastle fan and they will say that he was unfairly sacked. They loved him, and still do love him up there

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[quote user="baldyboy"]If we stay up, and I do think we will, would you still accept the current brand of football we are playing under Hughton? By that I mean setting up to defend and nick a goal or would you expect to see him develop a more attacking style of play?[/quote]Assuming this is a perfectly innocent question;Yes I would, but it is variable and will depend on a few factors, not all of which are here:a) injuries to our first choice teamb) getting his first choice players inc) letting go of the players he doesn''t wantd) who we are playinge) whether we are at home or awayf) what state the game is ing) our available substitutionsNot that I want to overcomplicate things but people saying "WE NEED TO BE MORE ATTACKING" will be the same ones complaining when Man City roll us over 6-1.

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of course its an innocent question, why shouldnt it be? I think we may well see a few more changes to the squad in the summer and hopefully we will get a lot stronger!

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