We Had Better Not Carry This Attitude Into Next Season

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Good debate, Gareth. Let''s hope for at least another win this season and a stronger squad for next.

[Bryangunnshairline 0]

Grant holt get over himself, diamond does not work. Bla bla. I think some fans need to get a grip of themselves. Give yourself a nice big slap in the face and move onto city smashing Liverpool

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]We played very well against Everton (thought we deserved the win), played just as well as we did against Spurs for 70 mins against Man.C (as far as I can remember, Ruddy made about 2 saves before the 72nd min. We could have gone 1-0 up and should have been 2-2). The last 3 games were fine, bar the Man.C score line (but the performance up till 72 mins was very good). We beat Wolves, despite not playing well, only lost 2-1 to Fulham and they are beating everyone, apparently Wigan was a good result. And played well against Man.U. I wouldn''t say its all that bad.[/quote]

Fulham had lost their previous three games and we gave them a two goal lead. They''ve won their last few games because we gave them the confidence to do it. Today we have Blackburn that have not won in five games and wasn''t it inevitable that we would give away the first goal and go on to lose. Our performances recently have not been as good as many believe IMO. Everybody is beating Spurs at the moment so we should also get that into perspective.  

[lake district canary 0]

I don''t think I''ve ever read so much twaddle in one thread.   

 

It''s been a great season, some smashing performances,  squad developing nicely with good recent acquisitions.    Vaughan coming back from injury.  

 

PL developing the team work by playing players that will be working together next year.   Performances still up there - don''t know how anyone can say the team have gone on holiday - just ridiculous.    PL won''t accept anything but maximum effort.  

 

And the team will benefit from the rest at close of season after a supreme effort, ready to go again next season.   

 

Some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee.   You don''t know a good thing when you see it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vos 155]

The boys have down us proud this season but it is clear they have now virtually run out of steam. It should also be borne in mind that three of the back four are second choices and young Bennett has made a massive leap coming from Peterborough. Once again we had plenty of possession against a poor Blackburn side, but no real cutting edge. We seem to be trying to copy Swansea a bit i.e. a lot of ineffective midfield short passing but no real pressure on the opponents defence. Whilst the service to Holt and Vaughan was average they both seemed to lack sharpness.

I am afraid I am going to say it, but please can someone tell me what Andrew Surman brings to the team. Yes he has scored a couple of goals or so but has no pace and cannot tackle. Several free kicks float straight in to the keepers hands. Many of the team today looked tired but to me Surman was largely non-existent. Not particularly blaming him for this defeat but just don''t think he is up to premiership standard.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

I don''t think I''ve ever read so much twaddle in one thread.   

 

 

[/quote]

 

Not twaddle, LDC. Merely facts.

 

Overall it''s been a good show this season, but if you are satisfied with the results in Mar/Apr,then you must be VERY easily pleased.

 

Just do the maths. Rudi is correct.  If we take the recent level of points garnered into next season, we''ll struggle. Badly.

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"][quote user="lake district canary"]

I don''t think I''ve ever read so much twaddle in one thread.   

[/quote]

 

Not twaddle, LDC. Merely facts.

Overall it''s been a good show this season, but if you are satisfied with the results in Mar/Apr,then you must be VERY easily pleased.

Just do the maths. Rudi is correct.  If we take the recent level of points garnered into next season, we''ll struggle. Badly.

[/quote]

 

 

Putting a negative slant on a very difficult run in of matches after the season we''ve had is just nit-picking.  The tone of the criticism is  pedantic and lacking in  consideration of  an overview of the bigger picture.   

 

  We know we''ve done well this season, the pressure, the effort, the learning, the bedding in of new players.   Why do people insist on finding little negatives to pick on - when actually, things are going quite well?   We were good in the first half today, Rovers scoring against the run of play - and yes, I was there - and the team have turned up at every game recently.   

 

There is an element of working on the team for next season - why not?   We have new players - developing the teamwork for next season in competetive situations  is important.   This is an ideal time to do it.    Ok we lost today, at first it seemed like we were going to overun Blackburn in the first half.   Oh yes! there was another team on the pitch as well as us!  A team fighting for survival.  Give them some credit.   Give Man City some credit - and give us some credit for staying with them for 70 minutes.  

 

If anything, the players may be slightly jaded after such an effort this season.   No need to lay into them and the manager - is there? Really?

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

[Bryangunnshairline 0]

LCD I''m with you. It''s been a cracking season. Even if we lose the last 3 games 10 nil so what? A great season. The aim was to stay up and we have done exactly that. We are safe now performances are expected to drop slightly

[Ruddygore 0]

I have to admit to being slightly concerned, I usually read Rudolph Hucker as being a positive poster when some others are negative ALL the time. Rudolph is a poster I listen to consequently.

It doesn''t help that I don''t like seeing a losing performance and that also I don''t like feeling that the team are not firing on all cylinders, pedal to the metal.

We were at the game but sorry to have to leave after the first half due to "circumstances beyond etc" so can''t comment on the whole game but some things impressed and those were individual performances, there was some magic from GH and I turned to Sally my wife and said thats something England needs and doesn''t have. Andrew Surman impressed me too on occasion. On the downside I was worried about my namesake, for the first time some flaws were beginning to overshadow my "fan-ness" - Oh well.

What I wonder is if supporters on this board can accept that no-one really feels that we haven''t been amazing this year - the last three isn''t it? - but that this sort of finish is worrying for the impact it will have taking us into next season''s start. Besides that it just isn''t the NCFC we''ve come to rely on. Never say die, it ain''t over ''til its over and the fat female hasn''t sung yet, etc etc.

We''ve maybe been spoiled.

[Branston Pickle 3,667]

I too am with LDC - given that 99% of us reckoned they would be happy with 17th position gleaned on the last day of the season, surely this season has to be classed as a success. That isn''t to say we have to be happy with everything/everybody, but some do seem to be getting extraordinarily nit-picky.

Blackburn were never going to roll over, they have tonnes more to play for than us, and despite their position have any number of players we''d fall over ourselves to have in our squad. Their form wasn''t really as crap as broadcast either, given that they were unlucky to lose to Liverpool and Man U in their last two home games.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

I was unimpressed with  the 2nd half atitude!

 

We seemed to deflate big time after their 2nd goal and in the end their defence and midfield had us in their pocket!

 

Team selection was wrong I thought!

 

Blackburn are a physical hard tackling team who don''t give you much room. You have to outbattle and outpace them before you can attempt to win the game. This is why it was wrong to play lightweights Hoolahan and Surman. Pilkington should have started and Fox or Johnson should have been in the middle!

[G 0]

I have seen some really bad defending this season, especially the first goal today, lets get a couple real quality defenders and a decent defensive coach.

[Aggy 757]

I don''t buy into this difficult run of matches theory. Every match is difficult in the prem. We were picking up points in the first half of the season that we haven''t been doing recently.

10 games isn''t a "difficult spell". It''s over quarter of the season!

Now I''m not panicking too much. I am sure Lambert will bring in a few new players and we will refind some motivation for the start of next season. However, the recent run of form has been terrible. No point trying to argue otherwise in my opinion. If we can say how brilliant we usually were for the first 25 games or so, I think it''s only fair to say how poor we''ve usually been in the last 10 games or so. If we do carry this form on into next season, we will definitely be struggling. But I don''t think we will.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,789]

Be careful what you wish for!!......I see to remember Charlton fans would criticise their team for getting to the 40 point mark every season and then seemingly switch off. Curbishly paid for that with his job and 3 seasons later they were in League one.

If someone would have said at the start of the season that we were safe from relegation with 6 games to go and could relax for those remaining games ,who would have complained at that. The players have "earned " the right to tail off through what they have already acheived.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

Putting a negative slant on a very difficult run in of matches after the season we''ve had is just nit-picking.  

   

 

 

[/quote]

 

Now then Mr LDC (and others); let me just stop you there.

 

If those of us who are showing a little concern were just focussing on the one match, then I''d agree with you...that WOULD be nit picking. But we are not. This is now a run of poor results that''s stretched into double figures ( over one quarter of the season). If that run continues till the final day, effectively it''ll be one THIRD of the season.

 

We had one meaningful effort on goal yesterday. The defending for Blackburn''s first goal was atrocious. The last time we kept a clean sheet was on Feb 4th.

 

I''m afraid too many of you are looking at this through yellow tinted specs and making excuses for poor performances/results . Those who are saying "the lads have earned the right to slacken off and take it easy" are surely having a laugh ? I remember posting after the Stoke game to say that I hoped this season does not just fizzle out. But that''s exactly what''s happened.

 

Luckily, by the evidence of his post match comments, we have, in Paul Lambert, a manager who''s not as easily satisfied as you are.

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

Be careful what you wish for!!......I see to remember Charlton fans would criticise their team for getting to the 40 point mark every season and then seemingly switch off. Curbishly paid for that with his job and 3 seasons later they were in League one.

If someone would have said at the start of the season that we were safe from relegation with 6 games to go and could relax for those remaining games ,who would have complained at that. The players have "earned " the right to tail off through what they have already acheived.

[/quote]

 

Its not a question of relaxing imo.   The players -  who have - have put in a great effort this season - will have a very small drop off in performance level, owing to the psychological effect of being safe.    They do not relax - they simply become a little jaded.  Mentally tired. Its only a small percentage drop off in performance - but it happens.   Then, when you come up against sides fighting for survival, it shows up more in your results.  Its something the coaches will be aware of but hard to solve.    Tiredness. It happens to all of us.   At a sporting level, mental tiredness is a vey important factor.   Teams like ours - who have made a massive effort to stay in this league without much previous experience  are going to be prone to this.  

 

If we had still be fighting for survival yesterday, we might have seen a different level of performance as the adrenilin would have benn running at a higher level.   I say give the players a break - give them support -  they need that more than they need the negativity.  

 

 

 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,789]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

Be careful what you wish for!!......I see to remember Charlton fans would criticise their team for getting to the 40 point mark every season and then seemingly switch off. Curbishly paid for that with his job and 3 seasons later they were in League one.

If someone would have said at the start of the season that we were safe from relegation with 6 games to go and could relax for those remaining games ,who would have complained at that. The players have "earned " the right to tail off through what they have already acheived.

[/quote]

 

Its not a question of relaxing imo.   The players -  who have - have put in a great effort this season - will have a very small drop off in performance level, owing to the psychological effect of being safe.    They do not relax - they simply become a little jaded.  Mentally tired. Its only a small percentage drop off in performance - but it happens.   Then, when you come up against sides fighting for survival, it shows up more in your results.  Its something the coaches will be aware of but hard to solve.    Tiredness. It happens to all of us.   At a sporting level, mental tiredness is a vey important factor.   Teams like ours - who have made a massive effort to stay in this league without much previous experience  are going to be prone to this.  

 

If we had still be fighting for survival yesterday, we might have seen a different level of performance as the adrenilin would have benn running at a higher level.   I say give the players a break - give them support -  they need that more than they need the negativity.  

 

 

 

[/quote]

surely what youve described is the very definition of "relaxing" ?!?

re·lax(r-lks)

v. re·laxed, re·lax·ing, re·lax·es

v.tr.

1. To make lax or loose: relax one''s grip.

2. To make less severe or strict: relax a curfew.

3. To reduce in intensity; slacken: relax one''s efforts.

4. To relieve from tension or strain: The warm bath relaxed me.

v.intr.

1. To take one''s ease; rest.

2. To become lax or loose.

3. To become less severe or strict.

4. To become less restrained or tense.

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

Be careful what you wish for!!......I see to remember Charlton fans would criticise their team for getting to the 40 point mark every season and then seemingly switch off. Curbishly paid for that with his job and 3 seasons later they were in League one.

If someone would have said at the start of the season that we were safe from relegation with 6 games to go and could relax for those remaining games ,who would have complained at that. The players have "earned " the right to tail off through what they have already acheived.

[/quote]

 

Its not a question of relaxing imo.   The players -  who have - have put in a great effort this season - will have a very small drop off in performance level, owing to the psychological effect of being safe.    They do not relax - they simply become a little jaded.  Mentally tired. Its only a small percentage drop off in performance - but it happens.   Then, when you come up against sides fighting for survival, it shows up more in your results.  Its something the coaches will be aware of but hard to solve.    Tiredness. It happens to all of us.   At a sporting level, mental tiredness is a vey important factor.   Teams like ours - who have made a massive effort to stay in this league without much previous experience  are going to be prone to this.  

 

If we had still be fighting for survival yesterday, we might have seen a different level of performance as the adrenilin would have benn running at a higher level.   I say give the players a break - give them support -  they need that more than they need the negativity.  

 

[/quote]

surely what youve described is the very definition of "relaxing" ?!?

re·lax(r-lks)

v. re·laxed, re·lax·ing, re·lax·es

v.tr.

1. To make lax or loose: relax one''s grip.

2. To make less severe or strict: relax a curfew.

3. To reduce in intensity; slacken: relax one''s efforts.

4. To relieve from tension or strain: The warm bath relaxed me.

v.intr.

1. To take one''s ease; rest.

2. To become lax or loose.

3. To become less severe or strict.

4. To become less restrained or tense.

[/quote]

 

 

No. To relax is a conscious decison.    You choose to relax.      The players do not choose to be menatlly tired and experience the drop off in performance.    They are trying just as hard.    They just don''t have the peak in performance.  

 

To suggest they are ''relaxing'' is an insult to all they have achieved this season imo and is belittling their character.   Like I say they need support, not insults.  

 

 

 

 

  

[JF 694]

If we want to play at this level then the fans will have to accept we will often lose matches, Sometimes to teams we as fans expect us to beat. It''s part of being a mid table PL team. It''s a cliche but there really are no easy games at this level. Yesterday was a poor performance but we are safe this season which was the goal all along. Every fan before a ball was kicked would have taken staying up on goal difference if offered it, Yet not once through the whole season have we ever looked like getting dragged into the relegation fight. That is a successful season. Next season we go again with a few new faces and a team with more experience, and hopefully we can build on what has started. Look at the bigger picture.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,789]

I''m certainly not insulting them but at the same time we are allowed to be honest enough to say that this is going on, whether we''d like to admit it or not, as you say it is just human nature.

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]I''m certainly not insulting them but at the same time we are allowed to be honest enough to say that this is going on, whether we''d like to admit it or not, as you say it is just human nature.[/quote]

 

 

Agreed, but several posters keep saying they are relaxing, have gone on holiday.  It implies theyv''e stopped trying - and I just don''t believe they have stopped trying. 

 

 

 

 

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="Ruddygore"]I have to admit to being slightly concerned, I usually read Rudolph Hucker as being a positive poster when some others are negative ALL the time.[/quote]

LOL.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Joanna Grey"]

[quote user="Ruddygore"]I have to admit to being slightly concerned, I usually read Rudolph Hucker as being a positive poster when some others are negative ALL the time.[/quote]

LOL.

[/quote]

 

Well, I for one see what RG is driving at here.  There are a few posters on here who are determinedly, for whatever reason, negative.Conversely, there are those who seem to live in a pink fluffy la-la land where every criticism , however constructive or accurate is shouted down as "pessimism". But the majority live in an objective world who heap praise on the club when it''s due, but are not afraid to question things and criticise when that''s due. I''d class myself as part of that group, as I would Rudolph and RG.

 

We can argue about the meaning of the word "relax" and whether it''s appropriate till the cows come home . The OP raised a perfectly legitimate and pertinent point about how this season has tailed off, and how often uncannily teams that tail off at the end of one season often struggle the following. I''m afraid that , whether the group of "optimists" like it or not, the Spurs match aside, the recent run has been extremely disappointing. You can make all the excuses you like about mental tiredness etc, the fact is that we''ve lost 7 out of the last eleven games, and made extremely hard work of beating a desperately poor Wolves side by one goal.

 

One or two clichés have reared their ugly heads in this thread, so I''ll chuck in another: "You are only as good as your last game". And, in our case our last eleven. No one is disputing that , up till Feb ,it was a marvellous effort by the squad. But that''s now a long time ago, and it would not be right for some of us not to be worried about the recent downturn in form/results.

[lake district canary 0]

I don''t want to get into an argument here, but some posters are quick to show concern when concern isn''t necessary.   Over reaction comes to mind. I am as guilty as the next person in over reacting  usually to those that are persistently negative for no real reason.   

 

 

However,  the nature of supporting your club means you have to take the rough with the smooth.    I don''t think we are in as bad a run as some seem to think.    A bit of mental tiredness has crept in - maybe.   Apart from that the attitude has still been good.   Since Leicester - which for some fans was a bit of a watershed - we have beaten Spurs, Wolves, creditable draws with Wigan and Everton.  Man City we stayed with well for as long periods of the match.   Yesterday we outplayed Blackburn all through the first half.   Other than that all games have been very close.   

 

 

Objectively,   we are in a period of the season where we can try out systems, use players that are going to be here next season to help them learn about each other - remember we are a young team with recent players to bed in.   Its a toss up about the points for this season - of course we want to finish as high as possible, but the priority is improving the teamwork for next season.  

 

 

As for attitude - I think some fans ought to question their own attitude.  

 

 

 

  

 

 

  

 

 

 

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

fantastic season up until 10 games ago then we have faded, Spurs game apart. Could we be the new Charlton they always had a good first half then tailed off. They do need some new faces to pep things up next season

[PurpleCanary 5,570]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

 

If those of us who are showing a little concern were just focussing on the one match, then I''d agree with you...that WOULD be nit picking. But we are not. This is now a run of poor results that''s stretched into double figures ( over one quarter of the season). If that run continues till the final day, effectively it''ll be one THIRD of the season.

 

We had one meaningful effort on goal yesterday. The defending for Blackburn''s first goal was atrocious. The last time we kept a clean sheet was on Feb 4th.

 

I''m afraid too many of you are looking at this through yellow tinted specs and making excuses for poor performances/results . Those who are saying "the lads have earned the right to slacken off and take it easy" are surely having a laugh ? I remember posting after the Stoke game to say that I hoped this season does not just fizzle out. But that''s exactly what''s happened.

 

Luckily, by the evidence of his post match comments, we have, in Paul Lambert, a manager who''s not as easily satisfied as you are.

[/quote]

 

And with his own performance as well, I hope. One of the best managers we have had in my time, but capable of error. To quote a post on another thread:


Yes I know he chages his team most weeks but i think it has gone a bit wrong of late. Why did he suddenly try that 3 centre back formation? Why did Lappin suddenly come in from nowhere to start against Wolves and then has not been seen since? It was almost like he''d promised him a game.
Personally when Pilks is fit I would have him in the team every week. In several games I think he has got the balance in midfield wrong. Too many attacking players, yesterday and Fulham were prime examples of this. We really need to uncover a midfield enforcer from somewhere. Yes I know Naughton is not going to be here next season in all likelyhood but whilst he is here and we are paying his wages he should be starting at right back as he is twice the player Russell Martin is. If he is trying things out for next season I think it is wrong given the money involved for finishing positions in the prem. pre season is the time to try things to for me.

As to the players, to quote another post:


They are a group of players who have spent their careers in the lower leagues and who have mixed it with players with far more experience at this level, and quite often with players more skilful than themselves and they''ve done it through working damn hard for each other. It''s not a surprise that we''ve covered more miles than any other team. It''s also not a suprise that we''re running on empty now either. Doesn''t mean we have to panic though. They will rest up over the summer and Lambert will add some more quality to the squad ''to give the lads a hand'' and we''ll be even better next season.

 

Finance permitting I think there will be quite a clear-out of those players who have done remarkably well to get us where we are, but truthfully are not up to PL standard. Naming individuals tends to get messy, but there are some in the squad who really shouldn''t be figuring next season.

PS.  Ruddygore - notice how I had no comment at all to make on your "On the downside I was worried about my namesake, for the first time some flaws were beginning to overshadow my "fan-ness" - Oh well."

[Branston Pickle 3,667]

Just to add one or two more cliches: the season is 38 games, and/or it is only where you are mid-May that matters.

Over a season all sides go through good runs and bad, be they at the top, mid-table or at the bottom - due to injuries, the sides they are playing or a mixture....away games are still hard whoever you are playing (remember last time we were here we didnt win one) so it is easy to go on an what seems a poor run. Bearing everything in mind imo if you look at the results independently we haven''t really lost that many games we ''should'' have won.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

I don''t want to get into an argument here,

As for attitude - I think some fans ought to question their own attitude.  

 

 

 

  

 

 

  

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

More mixed messages here, I''m afraid LDC . No-one (certainly not me) is wishing to get into an argument, but it''s a very valid discussion highlighting the downturn in form, and how different faction of fans explain it.

 

But then you go and spoil it by , in a thinly veiled manner,suggesting yet again that those who do not agree with you need to "question their attitude".

 

It''s not a matter of "attitude" . More facts, to be truthful.  Such as the one that current form( long before we were "safe" and could "switch off") is relegation form. You have a perfectly valid point about the "rough with the smooth", but what most of us are trying to do is to concentrate on the smooth, and avoiding, wherever possible ,the rough. A laudable objective , surely, if you are a true fan ?

[Ruddygore 0]

I did indeed PC, and it was much appreciated.

I''m sure LDC has a point with his sports psychology of the drop in peak performance not being a conscious decision and I very much doubt that any of our team would want PL to think they were relaxing.

My only point is a recurring theme, that there is a difference between constructive criticism and pure negativity which we all know but at times fail to recognise it seems.

What LDC has touched on fits into the scenario of most mid level prem teams with nothing to really fight for except the avoidance of relegation. No way to breach that gap into the Super 4 (or is it 5 or 6?) - there''s no promotion spots to battle for and maybe we have to slog on as supporters - learn to be content as others do. It must have an effect somewhere and it''s not just all attributable to "mental tiredness" but explains why this part of the season always seems to throw up some "odd" results!

[hogesar 9,705]

Grant Holt needs to get over himself? I think that applies much more adequately to yourself, OP.