Have any of you...

[Hannibal 0]

Actually played football at a decent level? I read on here so many comments and opinions about how we should play and who we should drop it would be interesting to see if any of  you have actually had a good insight into the profesional game. I see a lot of Chris Martin bashing going on but from my point of view this season he has been a players player, rather than a fans player. I think his hold up and link up play has been outstanding at times. Never holds the ball for longer than he needs too and i personally don''t think he has been given a lot of credit because we''ve not won when he has played.

For what its worth I would like to think i have played at a decent level with adult football and was coached in my youth by amongst others Dave Stringer and Sammy Morgan. My family has a long connection with football with My uncle being a current manager in League 2 and My Granddad previously being Chief scout for Newcastle and Aston Villa amongst others. Would be interested to see at what level most of you "experts" have played too..

[ChelmsfordCanary 0]

I agree about Chris Martin in your post but you do not have to have played football or know people in the business to have an opinion on something. It just seems to give off a potentially boastful view of you and that your opinion or views mean more than others.

 

[Mister Chops 7]

I have played in the same team as Chris Sutton.  Unfortunately that was Horsford Middle School, 1983-4.  I''m nothing more than an enthusiastic but extremely limited midfielder.  Still consider myself better than Carl Robinson though.

[CDMullins 456]

Spent time at Leeds United, Coventry City, York City and Halifax Town, up until 16/17.

 

Played for Wakefield in the college Academy League (Same team that Oli Johnson played for, he was a year below me)

 

Played for Wakefield district and then a few games for Semi-Pro Ossett Albion

 

 

 

[Hannibal 0]

[quote user="ChelmsfordCanary"]

I agree about Chris Martin in your post but you do not have to have played football or know people in the business to have an opinion on something. It just seems to give off a potentially boastful view of you and that your opinion or views mean more than others.

 

[/quote]

 

Apologies if my post came acros boastful not intended at all. If i was that good i''d more than likely still be playing rather than propping up the bar in the Barclay pre game. My point mearly was that its easy for people to comment on things that they have no insight on via these forums to berate and belittle players, tactics ect. when in reality they are probably a 30 stone sado sat in their pants who has never ran let alone played a game of football and FIFA on the Xbox does not count.

 

i''ll give you an expample from where i sit. There is one guy who ripped into Fox / The back four for most of last season for passing the ball backwards. He has no idea about ball retention and that keeping the ball and passing not only tires the opposition out but drags them out of their position and shape thus creating space. His idea of football is all lump it up to the front which is exactly what is wrong with the british game and why England will never win the world cup as things are.

[Jacko 0]

[quote user="Hannibal"]

Actually played football at a decent level? I read on here so many comments and opinions about how we should play and who we should drop it would be interesting to see if any of  you have actually had a good insight into the profesional game. I see a lot of Chris Martin bashing going on but from my point of view this season he has been a players player, rather than a fans player. I think his hold up and link up play has been outstanding at times. Never holds the ball for longer than he needs too and i personally don''t think he has been given a lot of credit because we''ve not won when he has played.

For what its worth I would like to think i have played at a decent level with adult football and was coached in my youth by amongst others Dave Stringer and Sammy Morgan. My family has a long connection with football with My uncle being a current manager in League 2 and My Granddad previously being Chief scout for Newcastle and Aston Villa amongst others. Would be interested to see at what level most of you "experts" have played too..

[/quote]

Does that mean that Arsene Wenger and Jose Mourinho have a rubbish insight into the professional game on the basis that they never played to any real level. Just because you are havent played football to a high standard doesnt mean you cant have a valid opinion on the professional game.

[ChelmsfordCanary 0]

Fully understand your angle now chap, agreed...........

[Tim Allman 1]

I was in the same Cub Scout football team (under 10''s) as Angus Fraser who played cricket for England, but that''s about it for me.

[CDMullins 456]

[quote user="ChelmsfordCanary"]

I agree about Chris Martin in your post but you do not have to have played football or know people in the business to have an opinion on something. It just seems to give off a potentially boastful view of you and that your opinion or views mean more than others.

 

[/quote]

 

Its right that you dont have to have played football to understand it, but surly if you have played the game and at a good level you understand it more?

 

Whenever Darren Huckerby writes on here, or a match report everyone agree''s with him and thats becuase he talks sense. Because he knows the game inside out.

 

Some of the lads at work have season tickets and for some reason the rest of the office think they are some kind of football experts because of this. There is nothing worse than hearing ''Pauls a season ticket holder at Elland Road and he said..........'' Well im sorry I know Paul and he knows nothing about football!

 

My mum wouldnt suddenly become and expert if she bought a season ticket.

 

Everyone knows im anti-Wes and part of that is because I was a very similar player to him. Very small, left footed and no pace. I would try and be creative and beat a man then play that through ball, but when I knew I couldnt I''d keep the ball and play back, Wes frustrates me becuase of the amount of time he keeps the ball and gets caught when he could have give it earlier and kept the ball.

 

I believe my opinion is slightly more valid than ''insert name'' thats checks the score on ceefax and still posts his match reactions on here!

 

[Robert N. LiM 4,667]

You just need to listen to Shearer for a couple of minutes to realise that having played the game at a high level doesn''t mean that you have any understanding of it.

In fact, you might argue the opposite, that the less talented you are, the more you need to think about tactics, positioning etc to keep your head above water.

I don''t think it''s a coincidence that most of the great coaches were comparatively mediocre players, and that most great players don''t make good managers.

Certainly reading a few posts on this thread, there seems to be little correlation between footballing experience and wisdom posted on this messageboard.

This is all by way of saying that I''m rubbish at football...

[Old Shuck 192]

Interesting thread.

We all have opinions on just about everything though don''t we-life, politics, music, TV, sport and football...most of us probably have little or no practical experience in most subjects that they choose to comment on.

But it is just comment and opinion. We should all be free to make it and accept that, when doing so, not everyone is going to agree!

The best I can offer as a player is being in the same Uni team squad as Mark Shail who went onto play for Bristol City in the early 90''s, whilst my PE teacher at school, a Mr Gadsby, played professionally for Leeds United-he said I was a "good player" but then he said that to everyone!

[Rob Sims 0]

If the games he has played in Norwich have always ended in defeat it does not bode well for his contribution. However having said that wasn''t it Gareth Bale who didnt play in a game that Tottenham won for over a season? There''s a fact out there somewhere for pub quizzes.

From the two games i''ve seen in full that he played in i didn''t feel his contribution warranted him a guarenteed start. I felt other options offered just as much.

Lambert clearly thinks he''s quality as he started him in both Chelsea and West Brom (perhaps others but i didn''t see them and i can''t be arsed to check). I think thats all anyone needs to know, the rest is just an individuals opinion. It''s a forum, everyones entitled. even if it is pointless drivel!

Like Mick McCarthy''s response to Joey Barton''s comments, "Opinions are like ar*eholes, everyone has one". Brilliant.

[CDMullins 456]

Just to add another example,

 

I could talk to stockbroker about the stock market, I could still have an opinion, but his would be more valid.

[Ruddygore 0]

Just because you don''t have as much expertise about the game as some others doesn''t mean that you shouldn''t still talk about your opinions and learn from other opinions.

I wasn''t allowed to play football at school, went to a rugby/cricket school but as an adult I count an ex Reading player as my best friend, various non league managers and chairmen as others and we all talk bollox from time to time!

[Ruddygore 0]

Good thread btw.

[Robert N. LiM 4,667]

The stockbroker analogy doesn''t quite work.

The better one would be: who knows more about the stock market - a stockbroker or a financial journalist?

One is directly involved in it, but might not be able to see the wood for the trees

The other is not directly involved, but spends a lot of time thinking about it.

I would say there is no guarantee that the stockbroker would be more knowledgeable.

[Lionel Wessi 0]

[quote user="CDMullins"]

Just to add another example,

 

I could talk to stockbroker about the stock market, I could still have an opinion, but his would be more valid.

[/quote]

 

Your analogy doesn''t really work because:

1) You were not a professional footballer whereas obviously if you were talking to a stockbroker they would be a professional

2) I very much doubt you would describe yourself as passionate about the stock market and take time to follow it (more than a passing interest) and and go and watch the traders.

I personally think Wes is a quality player who has the ability to create that extra bit of space that not many players in our squad can. I don''t expect him to start every week this season but I do think he will be a key member of our squad. (I presume my opinion is a little more valid than it would have been because a scored a screamer at 5 a-side last night)

 

[CDMullins 456]

But the OP was asking if the people who write their opinions up on here have any experience of playing football and at what level.

 

None of us get paid to write on here.

 

A financial journalist gets paid to write, so must have some knowledge in the first instance.

 

So that doesnt quite work either.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Hannibal"]

Actually played football at a decent level? I read on here so many comments and opinions about how we should play and who we should drop it would be interesting to see if any of  you have actually had a good insight into the profesional game. I see a lot of Chris Martin bashing going on but from my point of view this season he has been a players player, rather than a fans player. I think his hold up and link up play has been outstanding at times. Never holds the ball for longer than he needs too and i personally don''t think he has been given a lot of credit because we''ve not won when he has played.

For what its worth I would like to think i have played at a decent level with adult football and was coached in my youth by amongst others Dave Stringer and Sammy Morgan. My family has a long connection with football with My uncle being a current manager in League 2 and My Granddad previously being Chief scout for Newcastle and Aston Villa amongst others. Would be interested to see at what level most of you "experts" have played too..

[/quote]Jose Mourinho was an amateur footballer in Portugal in his youth and Arsen Wenger never played professionally... sorry.. your point is?

[Europe_93 15]

Welsh League - 2nd Division

I''d listen to anyone''s, but respect those of people who have at times disagreed with me and been proved right :-)

[Howson is now! 0]

[quote user="CDMullins"]

But the OP was asking if the people who write their opinions up on here have any experience of playing football and at what level.

 

None of us get paid to write on here.

 

A financial journalist gets paid to write, so must have some knowledge in the first instance.

 

So that doesnt quite work either.

[/quote]

 

I play guitar. Have done since I was five. Have been writing songs since I was about twelve. I was classically trained. I have been in orchestras, I have played hundreds (maybe even thousands) of gigs, concerts, performances and have been paid for my music in terms of booking fees etc. I am not a professional but are you saying that because of my background in music if I tell you all chart music is $hit that my opinion is more valid than anyone who has never written a song in their life?

 

I have friends who are very good footballers and know a hell of a lot about the tactics of football and I value their opinions. On the flipside, I also have friends who are absolutely $hit at football but still know what they''re talking about and I value their opinions just as much. I''m in the middle in that I used to be ok at football, played a few county level games, and probably pi$$ people off with my opinions sometimes. It''s not going to stop me talking about it.

 

And for all those professional players out there that know what they''re talking about, there''s just as many who spout absolute bollox and are probably laughed at by fans, pundits, and fellow professionals alike.

[CDMullins 456]

If you give me valid reasons for why your believe it is not as good as say classical music I would respect them more than someone who hasnt done what you have and just says ''pop music is shit'' but cant tell me why.

[Lionel Wessi 0]

The reason for respecting his opinion then is the justification not the fact he is performing musician. Therefore it would be logical to respect someones opinion if it is well thought out regardless of what level of football they may have played 

[Hannibal 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Hannibal"]

Actually played football at a decent level? I read on here so many comments and opinions about how we should play and who we should drop it would be interesting to see if any of  you have actually had a good insight into the profesional game. I see a lot of Chris Martin bashing going on but from my point of view this season he has been a players player, rather than a fans player. I think his hold up and link up play has been outstanding at times. Never holds the ball for longer than he needs too and i personally don''t think he has been given a lot of credit because we''ve not won when he has played.

For what its worth I would like to think i have played at a decent level with adult football and was coached in my youth by amongst others Dave Stringer and Sammy Morgan. My family has a long connection with football with My uncle being a current manager in League 2 and My Granddad previously being Chief scout for Newcastle and Aston Villa amongst others. Would be interested to see at what level most of you "experts" have played too..

[/quote]

Jose Mourinho was an amateur footballer in Portugal in his youth and Arsen Wenger never played professionally... sorry.. your point is?
[/quote]

I''ve been on here long enough to know you love a good arguement Jas so i''ll try my best here.

 

Although Jose may not of played the game at the highest level, he is very much what people would call a football man. i am sure you don''t need me to lecuture you on the history of Jose Mourinho cause i am sure you know all there is to know but were i to start i would highlight that in his 20''s he got himself a job at Bareclona with the late Sir Bobby Ronson where he worked his way up to assistant manager with Louis van gaal. I could use a few cliches about him serving his "appreciteship" under two of the greatest managers the game has seen but i am sure you can make your own mind up on that.

 

Moving on to Wenger you may or in this case may not know that he played in Ligue 1 for Strasbourg in the 70''s which believe it or not is the top league in France so the man was no mug with a football at his feet. He made only a modest amount of apperances but they did win the league and the Uefa cup. He was as much a worth winner of those medels as say Michael Owen was for Man Utd last year.

 

So although none of them ever played international football or such like they are both very driven men who would understand the game and not just good Ole kick n rush.

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

[quote user="WhoLetTheFoxOut"]

I play guitar. Have done since I was five. Have been writing songs since I was about twelve. I was classically trained. I have been in orchestras, I have played hundreds (maybe even thousands) of gigs, concerts, performances and have been paid for my music in terms of booking fees etc. I am not a professional but are you saying that because of my background in music if I tell you all chart music is $hit that my opinion is more valid than anyone who has never written a song in their life?

[/quote]

problem with that analogy is that music is aesthetic. If you say that some music or other is technically poor, simplistic etc then a trained musician is better placed to comment. Football is a mostly technical skill so professionals are more likely to know what they''re talking about. That doesn''t mean no-one else''s opinion is worthwhile.

I love football, but have never played at anything beyond sunday league and never seem to notice changes in tactics/formations beyond so and so is playing well/badly. I hold my hands up, my enjoyment is mostly aesthetic!

[CDMullins 456]

He can justify it because he is a performing musician.

[CDMullins 456]

[quote user="Hannibal"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Hannibal"]

Actually played football at a decent level? I read on here so many comments and opinions about how we should play and who we should drop it would be interesting to see if any of  you have actually had a good insight into the profesional game. I see a lot of Chris Martin bashing going on but from my point of view this season he has been a players player, rather than a fans player. I think his hold up and link up play has been outstanding at times. Never holds the ball for longer than he needs too and i personally don''t think he has been given a lot of credit because we''ve not won when he has played.

For what its worth I would like to think i have played at a decent level with adult football and was coached in my youth by amongst others Dave Stringer and Sammy Morgan. My family has a long connection with football with My uncle being a current manager in League 2 and My Granddad previously being Chief scout for Newcastle and Aston Villa amongst others. Would be interested to see at what level most of you "experts" have played too..

[/quote]

Jose Mourinho was an amateur footballer in Portugal in his youth and Arsen Wenger never played professionally... sorry.. your point is?
[/quote]

I''ve been on here long enough to know you love a good arguement Jas so i''ll try my best here.

 

Although Jose may not of played the game at the highest level, he is very much what people would call a football man. i am sure you don''t need me to lecuture you on the history of Jose Mourinho cause i am sure you know all there is to know but were i to start i would highlight that in his 20''s he got himself a job at Bareclona with the late Sir Bobby Ronson where he worked his way up to assistant manager with Louis van gaal. I could use a few cliches about him serving his "appreciteship" under two of the greatest managers the game has seen but i am sure you can make your own mind up on that.

 

Moving on to Wenger you may or in this case may not know that he played in Ligue 1 for Strasbourg in the 70''s which believe it or not is the top league in France so the man was no mug with a football at his feet. He made only a modest amount of apperances but they did win the league and the Uefa cup. He was as much a worth winner of those medels as say Michael Owen was for Man Utd last year.

 

So although none of them ever played international football or such like they are both very driven men who would understand the game and not just good Ole kick n rush.

[/quote]

 

Great post Re-Wenger and Mourinho.

 

People dont see the massive gap between people that have played at say League 2 level and them play Sunday level.

 

Arsene Wenger was a footballer.

[Lionel Wessi 0]

[quote user="CDMullins"]

He can justify it because he is a performing musician.

[/quote]

Or simply because he has a knowledge of music. You do not have to be a performing musician to understand music just as you do not have to have played football at a certain level to understand the complexities of the game.

The argument that people who have not played at whatever level is deemed acceptable simply like good ''ole kick ball is over simplified and does not explain the host of managers who have played football at a much higher level than anyone on this board (except you Mr Huckerby you are a God) that opt for this style of play.

I have only played Sunday league football and enjoy (although apparently don''t understand) patient passing football

[paul moy 235]

Andreas Villas Boas, Chelsea manager never played football to a professional level. That says it all really. 

[PurpleCanary 5,606]

I went to a school where they allowed everything bar football, so I''ve never had five minutes'' coaching in my life, although myself and like-minded friends did play in the holidays. This lack of experience means I shy away from commenting on specific players and tactics. I''m not one of those fans who can watch a game and give a valid appreciation of how everyone played. I envy those who can.

 

However, since I was a goalie, I do understand that position (which IS different) and feel justified in pontificating on that. I don''t want to get back into the Ruddy Debate, but bluntly many of the opinions expressed on goalkeeping generally betray a lack of knowledge of what is important and what it entails. This doesn''t just apply to fans; most pundits don''t seem to have a clue either.

 

I suspect it is similar to wicket-keeping. I was a rubbish cricketer, but I played a few hundred games in a league and can spot a fair bit about batting and bowling at Test level. But wicket-keeping (apart from the obvious bits, like dropping a sitter) is a mystery. The finer points elude me.

 

Anyway, as someone said, an interesting debate. I would throw Arrigo Sacchi into the mix. A shoe salesman who just watched a lot of football. He won a few trophies. There are some activities (music and chess spring to mind) where you need to have the technical knowledge really to appreciate them. I often like the sound that music makes without knowing why, or whether it is well or badly performed. And although I play chess the subtleties of grandmaster play are way beyond me.

 

But football is essentially kicking a ball. Something everyone does. And even if you can''t do that well, you know what is involved, and so can appreciate the skill involved in doing it well. And tactics, provided you are intelligent enough and prerpared to study the subject (as with Sacchi), shouldn''t be a closed book.