Chris Martin

[Yellowbeagle 0]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="chicken"][quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="crabbycanary"]Chris Martin has something to offer, but as we are now in the Prem, and he suffered with injury last season, his ''best'' football has mostly (recently) been seen by the masses in the 3rd Division. He is of an age now where whatever talent he possesses, should be shining bright. Unfortunately for him, it may all be about timing, if we were still in the League below, then I am sure PL would have him higher in the pecking order, but we are not, so he may well not get a tremendous amount of game time this season, which may not suit him. (Although if he has a new child, he may not want to go far,out on loan) There are lots of cases of players who promise much, but for one reason or another, (injury/promotion and the need to get fit/better players in ) etc can''t do anything about their circumstances. Time may not be able to wait for Chrissy to produce the goods[/quote]

Indeed. Chris has had his chances, blown them and it appears may be lucky enough to get another as Lambert is showing faith.  I had very high hopes for him when he came on the scene almost five years ago, backing him as a top scorer in the Champs the season he came back overweight and was dropped, and he has failed to meet mine and others expectations last season. Let''s hope he does it this season.    

[/quote] That''s just plain crazy then. The season he came back overweight was the one where Roder sent him off on loan. How old was he then? 18/19 and you were backing him to be a top goal scorer? A tad harsh. Then you expected him to bang in a flurry of goals last season as well. I suppose that is fair enough in the sense that I expected him to get between 10-15. However there were a lot of players that did not perform for the first half of last season or at least had very patchy form which effected our results and is part of the reason our goal difference was not better. The shame of it is that he got the injury when he did because had he been a part of that team in the second half of the season we would have seen a different player. Hoolahan, Fox and most of the defence hadn''t been consistant up until christmas.[/quote]

How many chances do you give him ?  When I was 18, I was working and professional at what I did and I didn''t look to find excuses for my age. Is it too much to expect a footballer to put his career first ?  I expected him to do that as he was showing great promise and thus I backed him. Wayne Rooney came on the scene at 16 and never looked back because he had the drive but Chris shot himself in the foot and has been doing it ever since, especially with the court case last season.  Without a severe attitude change he will only be a squad player and a wasted talent.    

 

[/quote]

Rooney''s attitude stinks alot of the time. He sleeps with granny hookers, swears at the camera, criticises the england fans for being upset at him and the team playing like a pub team, cheats on his missus, holds his team for ransom to get an even bigger contract by saying he wants to leave, he just has alot more ability than any of our strikers, hence the reason he plays for Man Unt. He has shown no more professionalism than C.Martin he''s just has more ability as a footballer, even if over-rated. C.Martin is a decent player with time still to develop in the next couple of seasons.

[paul moy 235]

Yeah, but Rooney still puts everything into his football and that''s the attitude that counts. Chris does not put everything into his football and that''s been plain for most of us with balanced opinions to see.  

[Yellowbeagle 0]

[quote user="paul moy"]Yeah, but Rooney still puts everything into his football and that''s the attitude that counts. Chris does not put everything into his football and that''s been plain for most of us with balanced opinions to see.  [/quote]

So a balanced opinion contrasts Rooney to C.Martin?. C.Martin does need to address his attitude, but i see it as no worse than Rooney''s just Rooney has alot more natural ability so the public tolerate it.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]

[quote user="paul moy"]Yeah, but Rooney still puts everything into his football and that''s the attitude that counts. Chris does not put everything into his football and that''s been plain for most of us with balanced opinions to see.  [/quote]

So a balanced opinion contrasts Rooney to C.Martin?. C.Martin does need to address his attitude, but i see it as no worse than Rooney''s just Rooney has alot more natural ability so the public tolerate it.

[/quote]

Many players with limited ability can make the top purely because of their desire and attitude. David Beckham, DJ Campbell and Dean Windass spring to mind and, mark my words, Cody will continue to move up the Leagues and surprise a few doubters on here because he applies himself to the job in hand as he obviously wants to succeed and has obvious desire. Chris will continue to fall by the wayside IMO.

[ABC (A Basingstoke Canary) 26]

Any excuse to get a plug in for Cody [:D] - I admire your perseverence, and I would be surprised if Paul Lambert didn''t keep hold of Cody.

 

However, this is about Chris Martin, and as much as I respect others viewpoints, I suspect that PL sees a large role for CM this year. This opinion is backed up by the fact that CM was offered a new 3 and a half year contract in Jan of last year - possibly one of the longest contracts PL has offered anyone....?

 

[paul moy 235]

... and Chris''s performances in League 1 tailed off immediately that he signed that contract, just as they did when he signed the contract after his first season, coming back for training overweight. The way to get the best out of Chris IMO is to give him shorter contracts so that he has to work hard for renewals. Giving him such a long contract, which I incidentally said on this BB at the time was a mistake, put him once again into a predictable comfort zone which yet again appeared to sap his desire. Having said that, if he comes good this season, nobody will be more pleased than myself as it will be good for the club and our prospects in the Prem.

[Guest]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]

[quote user="paul moy"]Yeah, but Rooney still puts everything into his football and that''s the attitude that counts. Chris does not put everything into his football and that''s been plain for most of us with balanced opinions to see.  [/quote]

So a balanced opinion contrasts Rooney to C.Martin?. C.Martin does need to address his attitude, but i see it as no worse than Rooney''s just Rooney has alot more natural ability so the public tolerate it.

[/quote]

Many players with limited ability can make the top purely because of their desire and attitude. David Beckham, DJ Campbell and Dean Windass spring to mind and, mark my words, Cody will continue to move up the Leagues and surprise a few doubters on here because he applies himself to the job in hand as he obviously wants to succeed and has obvious desire. Chris will continue to fall by the wayside IMO.

[/quote]Everyone gets your point of view - you think Cody will be a world beater based on a superb season in League Two, and Chris Martin will fail because he has a "poor attitude".Despite the fact you probably have limited evidence to support your assertions, and cherry pick things that suit your argument, do you really need to continually beat the "Cody" drum?I would like Cody to get his chance, but I certainly don''t feel the need to continually compare and slate another Norwich player to try and improve the case for his inclusion in the squad. Especially a young player who was superb for us a couple of seasons ago.Oh.. and you think David Beckham is a player with "limited ability"?! Do you really believe that?

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="chicken"] The biggest indicator is the 26 man squad taken to Germany. Who is in it? [/quote]

Been trying to find out who has gone myself, where did you get the information from?

[a1canary 0]

Paul, you keep talking about all these chances he''s had and not taken? What exactly are you talking about apart from his brush with the law last year? Because as far as i''m concerned, since he came back to us from Luton, which was a key part of his footballing education so far, he has made major contributions to the team''s success. He was as good as anyone in league 1 and as many have said on here, people forget the contribution he made this last season before the off field stuff and him getting injured. People who essentially fabricate this impression that he''s a lazy, self obsessed trouble maker are simply helping to perpetuate what is a complete myth, and are definitely not helping him. And don''t bring out the - "i worked hard and professionally when i was 18 so why can''t he?" story. That helps absolutely no-one. The fact is you know nothing about the guy other than he got a bit lairy on a night out. Who are you to judge him? Half of 18 year olds the world over get in trouble or don''t apply themselves - the fact that you didn''t, while very commendable, is frankly irrelevant. 

[paul moy 235]

On the Beckham point, I think it''s fair to say that many people believe that he made it to the top with limited ability. To me, he''s the perfect example of what can be achieved by dedication and desire. Most people I believe would agree that he has little pace, cannot head a ball, but is perfection when it come free kicks and to crossing or passing a ball over distance . Even Hucks at an interview in the Gunn club said that Beckham is not as good as some people think. Beckham is renowned for the extra work he has put in after training and constant practice to improve and there has been much anecdotal evidence over the years to back this up. As far as I''m aware he is also teetotal.

Hard work can bring success and he has done it. Lack of hard work will not bring success. Pretty obvious really.

[paul moy 235]

*  when it come to free kicks [:D]

[paul moy 235]

A1Canary, I''ve made comments throughout about chances he''s not taken, so I don''t see the point of repeating them. Chris has had 5 years of League experience and he is not at the performance levels where I expected him to be after all of that time.  If you think he is then fair enough, but my view is that with the footballing attributes he has he could have achieved a lot more by now.

[Coelho 0]

[quote user="paul moy"]

On the Beckham point, I think it''s fair to say that many people believe that he made it to the top with limited ability. To me, he''s the perfect example of what can be achieved by dedication and desire. Most people I believe would agree that he has little pace, cannot head a ball, but is perfection when it come free kicks and to crossing or passing a ball over distance . Even Hucks at an interview in the Gunn club said that Beckham is not as good as some people think. Beckham is renowned for the extra work he has put in after training and constant practice to improve and there has been much anecdotal evidence over the years to back this up. As far as I''m aware he is also teetotal.

Hard work can bring success and he has done it. Lack of hard work will not bring success. Pretty obvious really.

[/quote]Messi can''t head the ball very well. Maradona wasn''t very good at tackling. Fabio Cannavaro wasn''t a very good finisher. Beckham is one of the most technically gifted footballers of his generation. I''m not saying that ability is innate or that he hasn''t worked extremely hard throughout his career to improve his game, but to suggest he has ''limited ability'' is absurd. Nobody is a ''complete'' footballer, but Beckham almost singlehandedly redefined the role of a wide midfielder due to his phenomenal technical ability and fearsome passing accuracy.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Coelho"][quote user="paul moy"]

On the Beckham point, I think it''s fair to say that many people believe that he made it to the top with limited ability. To me, he''s the perfect example of what can be achieved by dedication and desire. Most people I believe would agree that he has little pace, cannot head a ball, but is perfection when it come free kicks and to crossing or passing a ball over distance . Even Hucks at an interview in the Gunn club said that Beckham is not as good as some people think. Beckham is renowned for the extra work he has put in after training and constant practice to improve and there has been much anecdotal evidence over the years to back this up. As far as I''m aware he is also teetotal.

Hard work can bring success and he has done it. Lack of hard work will not bring success. Pretty obvious really.

[/quote]
Messi can''t head the ball very well. Maradona wasn''t very good at tackling. Fabio Cannavaro wasn''t a very good finisher. Beckham is one of the most technically gifted footballers of his generation. I''m not saying that ability is innate or that he hasn''t worked extremely hard throughout his career to improve his game, but to suggest he has ''limited ability'' is absurd. Nobody is a ''complete'' footballer, but Beckham almost singlehandedly redefined the role of a wide midfielder due to his phenomenal technical ability and fearsome passing accuracy.
[/quote]

Ah ok, so Beckham has similar attributes to Messi and Maradona.... it''s all clear now.  [:D]

 

[Coelho 0]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Coelho"][quote user="paul moy"]

On the Beckham point, I think it''s fair to say that many people believe that he made it to the top with limited ability. To me, he''s the perfect example of what can be achieved by dedication and desire. Most people I believe would agree that he has little pace, cannot head a ball, but is perfection when it come free kicks and to crossing or passing a ball over distance . Even Hucks at an interview in the Gunn club said that Beckham is not as good as some people think. Beckham is renowned for the extra work he has put in after training and constant practice to improve and there has been much anecdotal evidence over the years to back this up. As far as I''m aware he is also teetotal.

Hard work can bring success and he has done it. Lack of hard work will not bring success. Pretty obvious really.

[/quote]Messi can''t head the ball very well. Maradona wasn''t very good at tackling. Fabio Cannavaro wasn''t a very good finisher. Beckham is one of the most technically gifted footballers of his generation. I''m not saying that ability is innate or that he hasn''t worked extremely hard throughout his career to improve his game, but to suggest he has ''limited ability'' is absurd. Nobody is a ''complete'' footballer, but Beckham almost singlehandedly redefined the role of a wide midfielder due to his phenomenal technical ability and fearsome passing accuracy.[/quote]

Ah ok, so Beckham has similar attributes to Messi and Maradona.... it''s all clear now.  [:D]

[/quote]You''re mad. Absolutely mad. Hats off to you.

[a1canary 0]

Well i am talking about the last 2 seasons because he wasn''t with us 3 seasons ago and before that i agree he maybe didn''t progress as quickly as many hoped but it''s totally unfair to criticise him for that. Players who shoot in to the big time as teenagers are very definitely the exception, not the rule. Just look at Grant Holt. I don''t understand why people criticise him for not hitting the heights of Rooney or others at the same age which is absurd. Yes he''s had some difficulties but for god''s sake we should be doing all we can to nurture and support a player with genuine talent like him if only because he''s the first in a very long time to NOT to go the same way as Chris Llewelyn, Adrian Coote, Adrian Forbes and all the others who came from the academy, flirted with our own first team and disappeared into obscurity. Chris is head and shoulders above these guys, has already acheived more than they did and still has the bulk of his career ahead of him. And yet people are still not satisfied with him.

[chicken 0]

Ah, Mr. Moy thinks you can put 100% in and be a great footballer - then why are so many of us not footballers when it''s probably what our dream was as a kid?

If you think it is as simple as that then great. Believe it. We don''t need talented gifted players.

This is the precise reason why English football is shafted. We don''t want the players that go against the rule a bit, who do things a bit differently.

Gascoigne on his day was unstoppable, but off the pitch he could stop himself with his habits. Same goes for George Best.

Ofcourse Chris Martin is not as good as them, but he also hasn''t done anything to justify the almost slanderous opinion you have of him based almost purely on the pre-Luton issues he had.

If you are talking about potential he is the youngest striker now at the club with the near departure of Daley. And yet as I mentioned before he has a record of being able to perform up to and including championship level. Something that Cody, Johnson and to some extent Jackson don''t have.

He might be overrated by some but incredibly and pretty much criminally underrated by you.

[JKUIL 0]

[quote user="chicken"]Ah, Mr. Moy thinks you can put 100% in and be a great footballer - then why are so many of us not footballers when it''s probably what our dream was as a kid? If you think it is as simple as that then great. Believe it. We don''t need talented gifted players. This is the precise reason why English football is shafted. We don''t want the players that go against the rule a bit, who do things a bit differently. Gascoigne on his day was unstoppable, but off the pitch he could stop himself with his habits. Same goes for George Best. Ofcourse Chris Martin is not as good as them, but he also hasn''t done anything to justify the almost slanderous opinion you have of him based almost purely on the pre-Luton issues he had. If you are talking about potential he is the youngest striker now at the club with the near departure of Daley. And yet as I mentioned before he has a record of being able to perform up to and including championship level. Something that Cody, Johnson and to some extent Jackson don''t have. He might be overrated by some but incredibly and pretty much criminally underrated by you.[/quote]

 

I think he''s vastly overrated by you Mrs Martin. How can you possibly place your son in the same category as George Best and Gascoigne ?!

[Lennon7 0]

I hope he stays and has a decent season. I really liked watching him play in the attacking midfield role, could be decent cover for Hoolahan if he gets injured. As well as also pushing for a place up front.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

I am bored stiff with the Chris Martin debate. He really splits opinion. vastly over rated in my book but whether he is or isnt this season will be a defining one for him at Norwich. he has to start getting into Lamberts plans and delivering the goods or he will be shipped out

[G 0]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]

[quote user="paul moy"]Yeah, but Rooney still puts everything into his football and that''s the attitude that counts. Chris does not put everything into his football and that''s been plain for most of us with balanced opinions to see.  [/quote]

So a balanced opinion contrasts Rooney to C.Martin?. C.Martin does need to address his attitude, but i see it as no worse than Rooney''s just Rooney has alot more natural ability so the public tolerate it.

[/quote]

Many players with limited ability can make the top purely because of their desire and attitude. David Beckham, DJ Campbell and Dean Windass spring to mind and, mark my words, Cody will continue to move up the Leagues and surprise a few doubters on here because he applies himself to the job in hand as he obviously wants to succeed and has obvious desire. Chris will continue to fall by the wayside IMO.

[/quote]

Yes they are at the top or around the top because they have worked hard to improve there ability but they are also at least 5 years older than Martin so thats the end of that one. Martin still hasa good few seasons before he ''peaks'' maybe more.

 

Comparing Martins attitude to Rooneys, do you see them train week in week out? Because there attitude towards football i think Martin''s is better, haven''t seen him swearing at the camera, moaning at the fans, being bigger than the club. Thats just football wise, yes he has been a fool off the pitch but so has Rooney.

 

[Herman 9,842]

[quote user="Al Catraz"]

[quote user="chicken"]Ah, Mr. Moy thinks you can put 100% in and be a great footballer - then why are so many of us not footballers when it''s probably what our dream was as a kid? If you think it is as simple as that then great. Believe it. We don''t need talented gifted players. This is the precise reason why English football is shafted. We don''t want the players that go against the rule a bit, who do things a bit differently. Gascoigne on his day was unstoppable, but off the pitch he could stop himself with his habits. Same goes for George Best. Ofcourse Chris Martin is not as good as them, but he also hasn''t done anything to justify the almost slanderous opinion you have of him based almost purely on the pre-Luton issues he had. If you are talking about potential he is the youngest striker now at the club with the near departure of Daley. And yet as I mentioned before he has a record of being able to perform up to and including championship level. Something that Cody, Johnson and to some extent Jackson don''t have. He might be overrated by some but incredibly and pretty much criminally underrated by you.[/quote]

 

I think he''s vastly overrated by you Mrs Martin. How can you possibly place your son in the same category as George Best and Gascoigne ?!

[/quote]

He isn''t saying that,please read his post again.[Y]

 

 

[Clint 221]

I struggle to take any thread seriously where a Cody enthusiast refers to David Beckham as a player with limited ability.

Paul Moy, do you think that had England played Cody at right midfield and given him the captiancy for the best part of the last 10 years, we would have been more successfu as an international force?

I''m pretty sure Cody would have put a shift in!

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]I am bored stiff with the Chris Martin debate. He really splits opinion. vastly over rated in my book but whether he is or isnt this season will be a defining one for him at Norwich. he has to start getting into Lamberts plans and delivering the goods or he will be shipped out[/quote]

so being first choice when fit since lambert took over suggests that he isnt in lamberts plans?

Might be an old boring debate but it doesnt alf bring up some daftness at times.

I am not saying he is a world beater. but he is one of the more experienced strikers at champs level that we have. and at 22 it makes him more than worth keeping.

Hes also not as lazy as he was. lambert has ironed that out of him.

[JKUIL 0]

[quote user="Herman "][quote user="Al Catraz"]

[quote user="chicken"]Ah, Mr. Moy thinks you can put 100% in and be a great footballer - then why are so many of us not footballers when it''s probably what our dream was as a kid? If you think it is as simple as that then great. Believe it. We don''t need talented gifted players. This is the precise reason why English football is shafted. We don''t want the players that go against the rule a bit, who do things a bit differently. Gascoigne on his day was unstoppable, but off the pitch he could stop himself with his habits. Same goes for George Best. Ofcourse Chris Martin is not as good as them, but he also hasn''t done anything to justify the almost slanderous opinion you have of him based almost purely on the pre-Luton issues he had. If you are talking about potential he is the youngest striker now at the club with the near departure of Daley. And yet as I mentioned before he has a record of being able to perform up to and including championship level. Something that Cody, Johnson and to some extent Jackson don''t have. He might be overrated by some but incredibly and pretty much criminally underrated by you.[/quote]

 

I think he''s vastly overrated by you Mrs Martin. How can you possibly place your son in the same category as George Best and Gascoigne ?!

[/quote]

He isn''t saying that,please read his post again.[Y]

 

 

[/quote]

 

Sorry, you''re right. I re-phrase : how can you possibly mention Martin''s name in the same breath as George Best ? On a less emotive level, my view is that if Martin was a top flight player he would have shown it by now. One player that you can place in more or less the same bracket as Martin is Ryan Jarvis who had his moments, notably against Liverpool, then flattered to deceive for so long that I and many others finally lost interest. PS - I didn''t know that Chicken is a bloke so apologies for calling him Mrs Martin.

[G 0]

[quote user="Al Catraz"][quote user="Herman "][quote user="Al Catraz"]

[quote user="chicken"]Ah, Mr. Moy thinks you can put 100% in and be a great footballer - then why are so many of us not footballers when it''s probably what our dream was as a kid? If you think it is as simple as that then great. Believe it. We don''t need talented gifted players. This is the precise reason why English football is shafted. We don''t want the players that go against the rule a bit, who do things a bit differently. Gascoigne on his day was unstoppable, but off the pitch he could stop himself with his habits. Same goes for George Best. Ofcourse Chris Martin is not as good as them, but he also hasn''t done anything to justify the almost slanderous opinion you have of him based almost purely on the pre-Luton issues he had. If you are talking about potential he is the youngest striker now at the club with the near departure of Daley. And yet as I mentioned before he has a record of being able to perform up to and including championship level. Something that Cody, Johnson and to some extent Jackson don''t have. He might be overrated by some but incredibly and pretty much criminally underrated by you.[/quote]

 

I think he''s vastly overrated by you Mrs Martin. How can you possibly place your son in the same category as George Best and Gascoigne ?!

[/quote]

He isn''t saying that,please read his post again.[Y]

 

 

[/quote]

 

Sorry, you''re right. I re-phrase : how can you possibly mention Martin''s name in the same breath as George Best ? On a less emotive level, my view is that if Martin was a top flight player he would have shown it by now. One player that you can place in more or less the same bracket as Martin is Ryan Jarvis who had his moments, notably against Liverpool, then flattered to deceive for so long that I and many others finally lost interest. PS - I didn''t know that Chicken is a bloke so apologies for calling him Mrs Martin.

[/quote]

 

Martin is a top flight player at the moment, in your comparison to Jarvis,  Jarvis is a half decent premier league player so if Martin ends up like him i think he will have reached his best and obviously improved drastically. You got to look at Charlie Adam, he''s 28 had a great season with Blackpool got them promoted, started the season great had loads of interest in him then the rest of the season was pants still got a move to Liverpool

[paul moy 235]

That very dangerous, comparing Charlie Adam with Chris Martin. [:D]   There really is no comparison at all and Adam was well worth 8 million and could be party to a Prem triumph this season IMO.   

[GJP 79]

[quote user="G"]. You got to look at Charlie Adam, he''s 28  [/quote]

Charlie Adam is 25.

 

Although if he was African there would probably be doubts over his real age.

[G 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="G"]. You got to look at Charlie Adam, he''s 28  [/quote]

Charlie Adam is 25.

 

Although if he was African there would probably be doubts over his real age.

[/quote]

 

Oh yeah my mistake, don''t have a clue where i got that from. I just think people are being really unfair on Martin purely because of his actions off the field people won''t ever be happy with what he does on the field. People were criticising Holt at one point remember. People are expecting to much from him, we have one striker that doesn''t stop chasing loose balls it would be bad for the team if two were out on the wings.

 

People aren''t happy with how Chris Martin plays his game, lets face it there isn''t much point us lobbing balls over the top for him to chase as he isn''t the quickest, therefore he comes across as lazy even though he''s willing to chase these balls. He needs to play to his strengths he needs the ball at his feet. He will score goals at Championship level once a team finds out how to play with him imo.

[Evesham Canary 0]

[quote user="smooth"]Off hand, laying the ball off to hoolahoops to score in the derby at home.

Running at the qpr defenders with what would have been a goal of the season to then have made the space for russell martins shot

Neat footwork in the box, I believe Leicester at home, to set up holt for his hat-trick

I also beleive it ws either derby or leicester away when a free kick troubled the keeper to parry it out and an on rushing player scored.

There are plenty of times that his link up play was essential. I agree yesterdays showing was against a very different team to premiership opposition, but again I believe he will have a part to play and, as mentioned above, this is his chance... time to prove himself[/quote]He laid on both Holt''s hat trick goal & Hoolahan''s 4th goal in that game. It was during his best spell of the season when he scored goals at Reading & Derby and at home to Burnley. His confidence seemed to wain a little after the QPR where he missed 2 or 3 really good chances late on to seal the win.He has undoubted talent but he does need to eradicate the off field issues and let his football do the talking. 4 league goals last season was not good enough whatever anyone says.I agree with those who say that no-one yet knows the "pecking order" of the strikers - we are all assuming that it will be Holt and one other but we could even end up with a 4-3-3 with the 2 wingers or even Hoolahan playing as the second striker - Holt may not be 1st choice.... I still think we may only have 5 strikers in the final 25 and Martin may be competing with Wilbraham for that last place.....therefore, likely to get it! We have flexibility with Hoolahan and Bennett able to play up front if required (possibly Pilkington too).