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Thecanaryfan

Starting lineup to face Wigan

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--------------------Ruddy----------------

Martin---Barnett-----Whitbread---Tierney

----Crofts--------Fox-------Johnson-----

-----------------Bennett------------------

------Morison-----------Vaughan---------

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--------------------Ruddy

Martin--Barnett--Whitbread--Tierney

--------------Johnson

-------Fox---Crofts---Surman

---------Holt---Morison

Subs- Rudd, De laet, Ward, Hoolahan , Bennet, Jackson, Vaughan

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This still really concerns me, almsot everyone has gone for 1 change to lineup from last season.

This IMO won''t be nowhere near good enough for the prem. I can''t see Lambert signing 6/7 players with only 1 of them going to be starting 11.

110% need a partner in defense for Barnett + still feel we need a proper ball winning DMC, Johnson is closest thing but is better when played in MC pos.

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--------------------ruddy---------------

martin------barnett-----whitbread (ward lol)--tierney

---------------------fox----------------------

--crofts-----------------------------surman--

----------------hoolahan-----------------------

-------------holt------------jackson-------------

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[quote user="Mervmeister"]This still really concerns me, almsot everyone has gone for 1 change to lineup from last season. This IMO won''t be nowhere near good enough for the prem. I can''t see Lambert signing 6/7 players with only 1 of them going to be starting 11. 110% need a partner in defense for Barnett + still feel we need a proper ball winning DMC, Johnson is closest thing but is better when played in MC pos.[/quote]

Agreed. Its bizarre how many people are overlooking the new arrivals. Especially considering the cash we have splashed. The problem we all face and that no one can deny is the fact that Lambert has been ignoring the back line. Thats what really concerns me. De Laet is an alright signing but we need one or two defenders with Prem experience who suits the Lambert model. I cant think of many. Maybe James Tomkins from West Ham (£3m? and Jonathan Spector on a free. Fraiser Forster would be the icing on the cake.

I think Hoolahan will be spending alot of time on the bench and will be used as an impact sub. That would free up space to accomodate the new guys:

                      Ruddy

Martin    Barnett    Ward     De Laet

Pilks       Crofts     Johnson   Bennett

           Morrison     Vaughan

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[quote user="Thecanaryfan"]

[quote user="Mervmeister"]This still really concerns me, almsot everyone has gone for 1 change to lineup from last season. This IMO won''t be nowhere near good enough for the prem. I can''t see Lambert signing 6/7 players with only 1 of them going to be starting 11. 110% need a partner in defense for Barnett + still feel we need a proper ball winning DMC, Johnson is closest thing but is better when played in MC pos.[/quote]

Agreed. Its bizarre how many people are overlooking the new arrivals. Especially considering the cash we have splashed. The problem we all face and that no one can deny is the fact that Lambert has been ignoring the back line. Thats what really concerns me. De Laet is an alright signing but we need one or two defenders with Prem experience who suits the Lambert model. I cant think of many. Maybe James Tomkins from West Ham (£3m? and Jonathan Spector on a free. Fraiser Forster would be the icing on the cake.

I think Hoolahan will be spending alot of time on the bench and will be used as an impact sub. That would free up space to accomodate the new guys:

                      Ruddy

Martin    Barnett    Ward     De Laet

Pilks       Crofts     Johnson   Bennett

           Morrison     Vaughan

[/quote]What concerns me is that people seem to think new signings have a right to go straight into the first team despite having never played a competitive game together in their lives. The new signings may well replace some old players throughout the season but it was the togetherness of the team that saw us outplay a lot of teams who on paper should have been better than us. I don''t see Lambert throwing that all away in the first game of the season.

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I honestly think we will start with the diamond.

Reading a few posts on here (not all that much recently) it appears that quite a few people think we will go straight into a 4-4-2 or another formation to fit Bennet and Pilkington in, I think Lambert just wanted two good wingers in, not necessarily to go from the off, but as options, so maybe we will play 5 man midfields away from home, with wingers. But to start with i think he will stick with predominantly the same team.

Ruddy

Martin, Barnett, Whitbread (or new CB), Tierney

Fox

Crofts Surman

Hoolahan

Holt Jackson

Subs: Rudd (OP, why would Lambert not put a GK on the bench?), De Laet, Johnson, Bennet, Pilkington (if fit enough), Morrison, Vaughan.

If Pilkintgon isn''t fit, then maybe K.Smith on the bench.

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I''d be shocked if it was not the eleven who got us up, Lambert has to give them a chance to show what they have at this level.ruddymartin ward whitbread tierneyfox surman croftswesholt jacksonbench of rudd/da laet/bennett/b/johnson/vaughan/morrison/pilkington 

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What I don''t get is why people call for players with Premiership experience then suggest those that have played in teams shown not to be good enough for the Premiership. Why would we want defenders from West Ham when they finished bottom and conceded the 2nd most in the league?

Premiership experience is all well and good but what we need is Premiership quality, and those guys which have got us there deserve a chance to prove themselves.

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[quote user="Mahogany"]What I don''t get is why people call for players with Premiership experience then suggest those that have played in teams shown not to be good enough for the Premiership. Why would we want defenders from West Ham when they finished bottom and conceded the 2nd most in the league? Premiership experience is all well and good but what we need is Premiership quality, and those guys which have got us there deserve a chance to prove themselves.[/quote]

A single player doesnt get a team relegated. Poor team morale, poor management and poor tactics are all massive contributors.

And those guys who have got us there conceded 58 Championship goals last season. To put that into perspective, QPR conceded 32 and we conceded the most in the top 5.  Trust me we need top level experience.

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A single player doesn''t get a team relegated but no West Ham player distinguished themselves last season apart from Parker. You can play well while playing for a bad team and none of the West Ham defence did that.

Top level experience is nice, but it''s even more overpriced than youth. We''re better off buying the best of the lower leagues than the cast-offs from teams we are supposed to be competing with.

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[quote user="Thecanaryfan"]

[quote user="Mervmeister"]This still really concerns me, almsot everyone has gone for 1 change to lineup from last season. This IMO won''t be nowhere near good enough for the prem. I can''t see Lambert signing 6/7 players with only 1 of them going to be starting 11. 110% need a partner in defense for Barnett + still feel we need a proper ball winning DMC, Johnson is closest thing but is better when played in MC pos.[/quote]

Agreed. Its bizarre how many people are overlooking the new arrivals. Especially considering the cash we have splashed. The problem we all face and that no one can deny is the fact that Lambert has been ignoring the back line. Thats what really concerns me. De Laet is an alright signing but we need one or two defenders with Prem experience who suits the Lambert model. I cant think of many. Maybe James Tomkins from West Ham (£3m? and Jonathan Spector on a free. Fraiser Forster would be the icing on the cake.

I think Hoolahan will be spending alot of time on the bench and will be used as an impact sub. That would free up space to accomodate the new guys:

                      Ruddy

Martin    Barnett    Ward     De Laet

Pilks       Crofts     Johnson   Bennett

           Morrison     Vaughan

[/quote]

So you would drop Holt, who has been our captain the past two years and scored 53 goals in those two years, play Pilkington who Lambert has said is still quite far off from being match fit following a broken leg (He is going to be eased into the season PL has said), drop Tierney and play a CB at left back, drop Fox who a lot of people would say was one of our finest players in the 2nd part of last season, and overall, play 6 new players who have never played together in the Premier League? What will that do to the mindset of the players who have got us promoted at the first time of asking? It would be very silly, imo, to chuck all the new guys in straight away, especially in the Premier League. Every single one of last seasons players deserve their chances in the big time. One or two of the new players will start I expect, but I would be amazed if all 6 (or more, if more are signed) of our new players started at Wigan

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Seeing as we are playing Wigan who are one of the more ''easier'' opponents we will face I would be very suprised if Lambert doesn''t go with what we are used to and plays the diamond with very few changes.

 

                                          Ruddy

R.Martin            Barnett                Whitbread         Tierney

                                            Fox

                              Crofts            Johnson/Surman

                                          Hoolahan

                           Holt                     Vaughan/Jackson

 

However as the season goes on I expect the team will change quite a lot and I think some of last seasons regualrs might end up becoming next seasons bench warmers just like last season where K.Smith, Lappin, C.Martin etc were not first choice players.  So I expect our line up could end up looking like this as we go on...

 

                                    Ruddy

R.Martin            Barnett         Whitbread*      Tierney

Bennett               Fox               Johnson         Surman

                           Holt               Morison/Vaughan

 

*might be replaced by a new signing.

Subs: Rudd, De Laet, Ward, Crofts, Pilkington, Hoolahan, Morison/Vaughan/Jackson.

 

I think we might play just the one up front sometimes but I doubt we''ve spent all this money on strikers for nothing.  The diamond will get torn apart at times and that is why we will move to a more conventional 4-4-2 or something of the like with two holding CM''s to withstand pressure.  There will be some big players from last season who will miss out but there is no plae for sentiment in football.  Overall looking at this I''m quite happy with our squad and signings however what is worrying is that the defence hasn''t been changed at all and that is our weakest area IMO.

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[quote user="Who Let The Fox Out"]     What concerns me is that people seem to think new signings have a right to go straight into the first team despite having never played a competitive game together in their lives. The new signings may well replace some old players throughout the season but it was the togetherness of the team that saw us outplay a lot of teams who on paper should have been better than us. I don''t see Lambert throwing that all away in the first game of the season.
[/quote]

Then I am very thankful that Lambert is in charge and not you. If you take a few moments to look at the last couple of games from League 1 and the first couple of the Championship you will see Lambert doesn''t care who got us up, just who will make up the strongest team on the day.

Fox, Crofts, Surman and Ward all started the first match. Ruddy of course took the No.1 shirt and Jackson started because Holt was injured.

Now I don''t expect six new players to start but there will definitely be some of the new guys involved. Pre-season will give the indications as to what formation Lambert is siding for, but there is a reason why Lambert moves so sharply in the transfer window and that is to bed the new guys in to the rest of the squad. We have six matches in which the players can get to know each other. I''m sure they will be fine.

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Ruddy

R.Martin Ward Barnett Tierney

Fox

Crofts Johnson

Hoolahan

Holt Jackson

Within 10 games, I could see Holt replaced by Morrison, but would be a bold move to do that from day one. I think that a new centre half will come in, that will put Ward''s place under threat.

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Given the current squad, my personal preferred lineup against Wigan would be:                       RuddyR Martin - Barnett - Whitbread - Tierney                      JohnsonBennett - Crofts - Hoolahan - Surman                     VaughanHowever, I am not sure we will see Lambert drop Holt or change to a 4-5-1 right away so this is more likely:

                       Ruddy

R Martin - Barnett - Whitbread - Tierney

                      Johnson

                 Crofts - Bennett

                     Hoolahan

                  Holt - Vaughan
I am really excited about the players we have in the squad at the moment. Here''s why:The team which started our championship campaign was:

  • 01 Ruddy
  • 02 R Martin
  • 03 Drury
  • 05 Nelson
  • 22 Ward
  • 07 Crofts
  • 11 Surman
  • 14 Hoolahan
  • 15 Fox
  • 10 Jackson
  • 16 C Martin
It is interesting to see how much the first team has been improved since then. So much so that it is hard to know who will play regularly and who will be on the bench. Maybe we will rotate the team quite a lot or change the formation from game to game.People seem worried about the lack of new defenders but this is the one area we significantly improved thoughout last season. With the purchase of Barnett and Tierny and Whitbread''s return to fitness, only Russel Martin has kept his place as first choice and he has improved so much that he is as good as a new signing. We may still see the addition of a quality centre back who will compete for a starting place. It might also be good to have some competition for the No 1 shirt. However, the defensive line is very much improved from the first part of last season. I expect the following:GK Ruddy/New KeeperRB R MartinCB Barnett/New CBCB Whitbread/New CBLB Tierney/ De Laet (although he could also play CB)We now have a lot more options in the midfield than last year which is a good thing because we will need to be a bit more adaptable in the PL. Few teams play 4-4-2 and trying to play the attacking diamond may simply not work against the stronger, fitter and more disicplined defences we will come up against although I am sure we won''t abandon it immediately. If we played a flat 4-4-2 we might get outnumbered by the 5 across the middle which many of our opponents will play but it could be very attacking. We have added some quality attacking players an I can now see us regularly playing 5 in the middle - especially after Pilkington is fit again and especially in away games. We may see any/all of the following:in a diamond:DM Johnson/FoxMR Crofts/BennetML Surman/Pilkington (when fit)AMC Hoolahan/Bennet/Pilkingtonin a 4-4-2MC Johnson/FoxMC Crofts/SurmanWGR BennetWGL Pilkington (when fit)/Hoolahan(?)in a 4-2-3-1DM JohnsonDM Fox/CroftsMR BennetCM Crofts/AMC HoolahanML Surman/Pilkington (when fit)orin a 4-1-4-1DM JohnsonCM Fox/CroftsCM Crofts/SurmanAMR BennetAML HoolahanWe have strengthened our attacking line significantly since January first adding Wilbraham (who got injured) then Vaughan and Morrison. Since then Jackson hit form in a big way and McDonald has returned from loan having scored bags of goals. I can see us having 5 forwards in our squad and I think 4 are obviously Holt, Vaughan, Morrison and Jackson with the final place going to whoever impresses the most in preseason - most likely C Martin but don''t rule out McDonald as, no matter what you though of him before last season, he will have improved a great deal since we last saw him and might just show enough to force his way in. At worst I would like him to be offered a new contract and then loaned to a championship club and only sold if a silly bid comes in because we aren''t exactly desperate for the cash. Again, lots of choices here:if we play 4-4-2/the diamondCF Holt/MorrisonCF Vaughan/Jacksonor if it''s 4-5-1CF Vaughan/Morrison

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[quote user="Legend Iwan"]

[quote user="Who Let The Fox Out"]     What concerns me is that people seem to think new signings have a right to go straight into the first team despite having never played a competitive game together in their lives. The new signings may well replace some old players throughout the season but it was the togetherness of the team that saw us outplay a lot of teams who on paper should have been better than us. I don''t see Lambert throwing that all away in the first game of the season. [/quote]

Then I am very thankful that Lambert is in charge and not you. If you take a few moments to look at the last couple of games from League 1 and the first couple of the Championship you will see Lambert doesn''t care who got us up, just who will make up the strongest team on the day.

Fox, Crofts, Surman and Ward all started the first match. Ruddy of course took the No.1 shirt and Jackson started because Holt was injured.

Now I don''t expect six new players to start but there will definitely be some of the new guys involved. Pre-season will give the indications as to what formation Lambert is siding for, but there is a reason why Lambert moves so sharply in the transfer window and that is to bed the new guys in to the rest of the squad. We have six matches in which the players can get to know each other. I''m sure they will be fine.

[/quote]Don''t worry, I''m not gunning for Lambert''s job. I mean, I wouldn''t want you to not be thankful that Lambert''s in charge.If you take a few moments to read my post again, you''ll notice I only said in the first game of the season that there won''t be wholesale changes and that I think that some of the new players will relegate some of our current starters to the bench.As for pre-season, judging on the last one that Lambert undertook, it will tell us absolutely sweet FA about what formation Lambert is siding for. I went to most of the pre seasons last year and we used nearly all the players at our disposal and tried about 10 different formations. I mean we played Hughes and Gill in the centre against Lincoln at some point.We do indeed have six matches for the players to get to know each other, but these aren''t competitive games. They''re all about fitness. If Lambert only uses 15 players and only tries 3 formations then I''m sure we''ll get an inkling of what he''s going to go with. I notice you''ve included Gorleston away in those "six games." How many of the starting XI do you reckon will start that?

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Ruddy

Martin Barnett Whitbread Tierney

Bennett Crofts Surman

Hoolahan

Holt Vaughn

These are all assuming there are no more transfers.

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[quote user="SnakepitCanary"]I hope we go for: Ruddy R Martin, New Centre Back, Whitbread, Tierney Fox Bennett Johnson Hoolahan Holt Vaughan[/quote]

 

why do you not want our best centre back in our defence?

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I think we''re going to try 3 CB''s early on this season. We tried it for a game or 2 last and it didn''t work, but with some work over the close season I think it could really help us mix it up. Few teams play with 3 at the back these days so it won''t be something other teams are prepared for. I expect we''ll start with the diamond but I hope to see something like a 3-3-1-3 in a early home game against a weaker team, maybe West Brom?

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[quote user="Who Let The Fox Out"][quote user="Legend Iwan"]

[quote user="Who Let The Fox Out"]     What concerns me is that people seem to think new signings have a right to go straight into the first team despite having never played a competitive game together in their lives. The new signings may well replace some old players throughout the season but it was the togetherness of the team that saw us outplay a lot of teams who on paper should have been better than us. I don''t see Lambert throwing that all away in the first game of the season.
[/quote]

Then I am very thankful that Lambert is in charge and not you. If you take a few moments to look at the last couple of games from League 1 and the first couple of the Championship you will see Lambert doesn''t care who got us up, just who will make up the strongest team on the day.

Fox, Crofts, Surman and Ward all started the first match. Ruddy of course took the No.1 shirt and Jackson started because Holt was injured.

Now I don''t expect six new players to start but there will definitely be some of the new guys involved. Pre-season will give the indications as to what formation Lambert is siding for, but there is a reason why Lambert moves so sharply in the transfer window and that is to bed the new guys in to the rest of the squad. We have six matches in which the players can get to know each other. I''m sure they will be fine.

[/quote]

Don''t worry, I''m not gunning for Lambert''s job. I mean, I wouldn''t want you to not be thankful that Lambert''s in charge.

If you take a few moments to read my post again, you''ll notice I only said in the first game of the season that there won''t be wholesale changes and that I think that some of the new players will relegate some of our current starters to the bench.

As for pre-season, judging on the last one that Lambert undertook, it will tell us absolutely sweet FA about what formation Lambert is siding for. I went to most of the pre seasons last year and we used nearly all the players at our disposal and tried about 10 different formations. I mean we played Hughes and Gill in the centre against Lincoln at some point.

We do indeed have six matches for the players to get to know each other, but these aren''t competitive games. They''re all about fitness. If Lambert only uses 15 players and only tries 3 formations then I''m sure we''ll get an inkling of what he''s going to go with. I notice you''ve included Gorleston away in those "six games." How many of the starting XI do you reckon will start that?
[/quote]

Don''t be so flippant by saying you only meant the first match you quite clearly indicated that the new players will only get in the first team over the course of the season. You said, "the new signings may well replace some old players throughout the season."

Now don''t get me wrong, I understand the reason behind your response, the guy before must be on something to cull so many players. However, to comprehensively conclude that these players won''t be included from the off - which you argue by the ''may replace thoroughout the season'', and not from the off - is ridiculous, as I showed by his decisions in the past.

I also travelled to a number of the preseason matches, and you are correct that it isn''t the be all and end all in relation to prediciting Lambert''s tactics. After all, OTJ was played at the heart of defense against Dag&Red. However, much like our match against Dereham I expect to see the new guys and a number of the old first XI given a run out when we face Gorleston simply because otherwise their preseason doesn''t start until the 26th, which is very late.

Your belief that because they are not comeptitive matches they won''t know each other I feel is misjudged. These guys will eat, drink and spend an awful large amount of time together over the next month. Just because the matches aren''t ''competitive'' doesn''t mean come Wigan they will have no idea what the other 10 players are thinking. As you say, it is the togetherness and winning spirit that has seen us reach the Premiership. Something all the knew players seem to have taken on board quickly. Again a reason for the idea of competitiveness not to be a major concern.

Anyway, I can''t wait for the season to start again and see just how good this team is. I''m sure we can agree on that. [:)]

 

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No Bennett as he is possibly our worst signing and i dont see what he can bring to our team apart from running alot. Johnson is a better bet because he can play most midfield positions and can play in a defensive role. Also surly we cant leave Hoolahan out of our first team he is brilliant.

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3313, that has to be the most ridiculous suggestion for a system I have ever seen. Also, West Brom a weak team? It''s difficult to say where we''ll go, we''ve brought in a fair amount of players that give us more options. I wouldn''t be surprised if we line up 4-5-1 / 4-3-3. That would allow us to play 2 defensive midfielders (Johnson / Crofts), a play-maker (Surman/Hoolahan/Fox) and two attacking wide men (Pilkington/Bennett) with one up top.

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I feel quite sure that we''ll see some of the new faces start. We had a good Championship team last year but not a Premiership team - surely that''s what all these signings have been about? I expect to see a lot more rotation of players next season.

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I think you''ll find that he will stay faithfull to most of the team that finished in the first team last season and gradually over time drop them for the newies as and when appropriate. This is what he did last season. So to kick off with I would expect the team to start as follow:

1. Ruddy

2. Martin

3. Tierney

4. Whitbread

5. Barnett

6. Fox

7. Crofts

8. Surman

9. Hoolahan

10. Jackson

11. Holt

Subs:

Morison, Vaughan, Bennett, Ward, De Laet, Johnson,

As part of the team evolvement/rotation I would expect Vaughan to replace Jackson, Morison to rotate with Holt, Bennett with Hoolahan, Johnson for Surman, Johnson for Croft, Croft for Fox (depending on who we are playing)

I would assume that we will go for a tighter diamond away from home as Surman is not great at defending so Johnson will come in.

Ward will come in as an injury/suspension replacement as will De Laet.

I would expect us to sign Forster at some stage so I would put him on the bench initially and then he will take over after 10 games or so.

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Surely the reason that so many people are starting with so many of last year''s team is that no one really has any confidence that the new signings are better than what we already had.

Sure, the squad has much more depth, and Bennett and Pilkington give us more options in terms of formation, but have we really improved our first XI?

Is de Laet better than Ward, Whitbread or Barnett?

Is Johnson better than Crofts?

Is Morison better than Holt?

Is Vaughan better than Jackson?

I for one am really struggling to see why people are so excited by the summer signings.Would obviously really love to be proved wrong.

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[quote user="Thecanaryfan"]

[quote user="UEA Canary"]Do you seriously think Lambert wouldnt have a sub keeper on the bench thecanaryfan?! That would be incredibly risky/reckless, what if Ruddy gets injured or sent off?! it would be game over with no sub keeper. Baffled with that suggestion[/quote]

Lambert has gone with no sub goalie on many occasions.

[/quote]

I thought he made too many errors. Albeit every player makes a mistakes. Personally he is the weaker of the three (Ward, Whitbread, Barnett)

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