Capital Canaries AGM......Q & A Session with Delia, MWJ and David McNally

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

thanks to the OP for taking the time out to do this! i have had a read and altghough i wasnt there i think its concise enough to comment on the boards answers...

my views are as follows

Question : What we''re the factors that made you decide to appoint Bryan Gunn ( BG ) in the close season ?

Michael Wynne Jones ( MJW ) said he felt BG needed more time. Delia Smith  ( DS ) challenged anyone in the room to find a manager - there were no takers - and also felt more time was needed.

This question is clearly dodged! the smiths make no attempt to answer it and basically state to the fans that "there is no better".. They clearly feel Bryan is the right man for the job and will be sticking with him.

Question : Who else did you interview ?

I dont think they interviewd anyone... quite how McNally would know anything about the interview process when he wasnt here baffles me.

Question : Should we judge BG in 10 to 15 games time ?

DM : Results are the only thing that matters (  to me that sounds as though the knives are being sharpened already! )

Doesn''t matter what McNally says.. the way the Smiths dodged the first question indicates they are sticking with Bryan.. DM is going to have to work some kind of a mircale to force managerial change and for the club to be able to afford it.

Question : Can NCFC make a profit ?

DM :  Most clubs can only dream. This year NCFC had very negative cash flow. Club has too much debt on the balance sheet. We need to sort that out.

So why have the board allowed it to get to this stage? do they monitor the finances regularly? or do they sit there with their thumbs up their backsides hoping everything will come out int he wash?

Question : Are you trying to sell/ had any offers for your shares ?

MWJ : We weren''t keen to sell our shares. We need investment. Delia and I have no desire to be majority shareholders but we''ve had no offers. No one wants football clubs. There was no offer from Mr Cullum.

Dont believe them... Delia said that if the right offer came in she would sell... there was no offer from Cullum because she wouldnt sit down and talk shop. you can''t buy something the owner never wants to sell

Question : If someone said I''ll buy the Club for nothing what would you say ?

DS : We would only release shares if money put in.

Yet DS publically stated that if someone came in with the right intentions in place they could have the club for nothing... im not going to say what i think because it gets edited!

Question : Is the football club up for sale ?

DS : Not for sale.( I was a bit puzzled by this as I was under the impression that if a decent offer came along it would be acceptable ) We need new investment. We don''t want NCFC to fall into vultures hands. She and MWJ knew that they would not get their money back ( Applause from the floor ) 

we have all been led to believe the clubs up for sale... yet it appears that simply is not the case now.... so whats changed in 18 months since the turners left....

Question : Andrew and Sharon Turner. What happened to them ?

MWJ : They left and didn''t give a reason . The Board are not hiding behind anything. ( when pressed on this MJW said he''d given an answer so the matter was left )

they did give a reason.. you dont just leave a job and not give a reason... "fed up" "unhappy "seeking a new challenge" are all reasons... Funny how they left after Cullums offer was refused... both the Turners and cullum come from a financial background too..... i think someones not being honest, and imo the Turners were here for a cullum take over.

Question : Youngsters. Will we be able to keep them ?

agree with mcNally here... if we have a youngtser doing well and a big club comes in we have to sell.. but the future looks good at the mo.

Question : Why are we in a mess when we get such large attendances each week ?

DM : We spend too much. We have a duty of care to ensure that NCFC is here in another 107 years. We will get a plan together.

again.. why was it allowed to get to that stage? we all have access to the annual accounts and even someone with basic financial knowledge should of spotted this.. the businesses the club have are not profitable... had we of invested in the playing side end established oursleves in the prem it would be a different story perhaps?

DS : We''re fighting a fire called finance. The alternative is administration.

and the final outcome will be??????

MWJ : Our attendance doesn''t pay it''s way

and yet i always beleived 16,000 was the break even figure.... so either that was bullsh*t and plucked out of the air by a certain former cheif exec when i asked him this outside the ground or the money has simply been peed away.

Question : What is the Club''s policy towards youth players ?

MJW felt this was a shame that it has been neglected. DM said if good enough old enough.

agreed.

Question : How much land/money in land do we have ?

MWJ : Approx 8 acres. This could be a '' golden goose '' when the recession ends. Nobody will give money to buy players but buildings are a different matter.

so basically Carrow Road as a structure is available to the highest bidder.. if someone wants to buy the offices in the jarrold stand will the club then lose part of the stand to accomodate?

Question : Are we close to administration ?

DS : We''ll fight the fire. (to me thats a yes)  We own 30% of the hotel when sold and there are plans in place if the banks come calling ( from the sound of this administration is not on the agenda )

im worried by this answer.. we dont own the hotel.. we were told we owned a stake.. and are now told we own 30% of the hotel... does the hotel make a profit? isnt it on a 99 year lease? we are closer to adminuistration than we think.. are the businesses going to generate enough revenue if sold?

Question : The 7-1 defeat. What happened ?

MWJ : It was surreal. Don''t know what happened.

should of been asked was Gunn quizzed about his tactics and selection.. cant blame MWJ here.

Question : How long has Bryan Gunn got ?

( Understandably the guests felt this wasn''t a fair question but when DS asked if anyone in the room felt sorry for BG there was a VERY muted response from the floor )

Delias question says it all.. Gunn is there man and is bullet proof... just like Roeder, Grant, Worthy and Hamilton were.. can you all see a pattern emerging here?

Question : Why did the Board not stop the loan players farce ?

DS : We could only afford loan players but do feel responsible for the mess.

agreed

Question :  Regarding the pitch incursion by two supporters last Saturday I understand that they have been given a caution today by the courts but what action, if any, does the Club propose to take ? ( at this point there was laughter as someone suggested they should be given lifetime season tickets as a punishment )

DM : Clearly what happened is unacceptable. We have a duty to protect club employees and others who are caught up in these sort of incidents Why did the Club security fail ? There will be a far reaching independent inquiry as to exactly what took place and we will make a decision on receiving their report.

im not to bothered by any of this.. unless the stewards become Hitlers...

Question : Will the alleged incident after the match involving Wes Hoolahan be investigated ?

DM : Yes and it will be part of the encroachment enquiry. There are no plans to sell him.

There were no plans to sell Dean Ashton either.....

Question : Rumour has it that we received an offer of £600,000 for Daryl Russell. Did we turn it down ?

DM : An offer was received from a Premiership club and was not acceptable as it did not meet our valuation ( at this point more laughter as someone asked whether it was more than £600,000 )

Press reports Burnley offered around half a million for Rusty.... imo thats good money and we should of snapped their hand off.. watch us sell him for less!

just my 2 pence added... usual crap regarding the Turners and cullum... i dont beleive the club regarding the Turners and still beleive the truth will come out one day.

 

[/quote]

 

Jas

 

Obviously you are entitled to interpret their answers as you see fit but in my view you really had to be there to get a feeling for their body language and the interaction between them and Mcnally. He is running that show. For me the most useful element of last night is that Mcnally saw a whole room full of seasoned and generally eloquent supporters all of whom were clearly deeply unhappy with virtually everything. i don''t think he would have appointed Gunn and I am pretty certain he will move swiftly if results do not pick up. From having spken with Delia and MWJ on various occasions in the past and seen tham at forums I also think these are the types of occasions they genuinely do take notice of because they regard groups like the Capitals as moderate "non-rabble rouser" types and when they start to get stick from us it hits home.

[Simon Lappin, King Of Spain 0]

[quote user="Downloads"]

[quote user="Fonejacker"]I guess that provides closure on the whole For Sale business. She has said that the club is not up for sale, so can''t see things improving anytime soon. Another poster on here suggested administration if we don''t get promoted, I think that it a strong possibility. It is staggering (but obviously true) for MWJ to say that the support doesn''t pay its way [:''(]
[/quote]

I dunno it depends how you read it. It seems to me that they don''t want to just sell their shares. They want the promise of investment into the club which would be clearing debt and buying players. They could sell their shares to any Tom, Dick n Harry who would have no intention of puting money in, in the hope they would be worth more once going up a division. That isn''t really what Norwich needs. Seems to me that if no one wants to wipe the decks clean for us then it''s only administration that will. It''s not like you can blame Delia for that per say, it''s just our situation with no way out, as no one wants the debt either.

Obviously mismanagement of the club is her fualt - big time.

[/quote]

 

I think you''ve got it spot on there mate, from what I heard they would give the shares away for nothing if there was somebody there ready to put money into the club for it to spend, not just transferring the debt to new owners who will eventually want it repaid. They are looking for investment not just to sell to the next person who makes them an offer. We have a lot of debt and will need a long time to pay it off unless a buyer is going to come in, write off the debt plus buy the club lock stock and barrel and then put money in for players etc. Without that happening I can''t see a new owner changing anything.

The way I see it Delia and MWJ done largely what people have asked for in the close season (apart from hire an experienced manager), brought in new board members, a new cheif exec, bought new players on permanent contracts and tied down our youth players. All past mistakes aside they have done pretty much what any responsible majority shareholders should have done in the same situation when they don''t have millions of pounds to throw at the problem. They have bought a half decent striker plus 10 other players and one loan all of whom in preseason at least have shown potential. They have a new Cheif exec who looks like he knows the business side of the game inside out and from what I was told from last night also knows when to tell Delia to shut up. Therefore things were looking up... and then we get pissed all over by Colchester.

Honestly I don''t really know what more the Caps could have asked that Delia et al could have properly answered, there is no point asking about the team selection as that is down to the management team who weren''t represented and there appears to me to be little point in asking questions about past mistakes because ultimately what are we going to learn that we don''t already know? I was disappointed by the lack of concrete information provided about what the plan is if things go even further wrong, but at the same any statement would look a lot like a vote of no confidence in Gunn, which would not exactly be the most sensible thing to do before what has become a make or break game for his team. I would also like to make the point that there was very little Delia and MWJ could do about the loan players situation as it was the managers policy, if they opposed it then basically they are meddling in the football side of the club which in general is never received well by the fans and would basically have been a vote of no confidence in the man they had appointed to lead the club. In hindsight the policy was catastrophic, but at the time, particularly as the loan signings brought in during his first season at the club were actually pretty good e.g. Ched Evans, Ryan Betrand, Kieran Gibbs how could they oppose the policy that had kept them in the championship the season before?

I have to stress that I am not a supported of Gunn or Delia but of this club, I would prefer to see us with a better manager (my choices would have been Mark Robins or Ian Holloway) and different owners, however the reality is that for the moment they are the people we''re stuck with. I do(or should I say did) believe that they had done fairly well during the close season in addressing the problems that they previously created, however saturdays result throws into stark relief the question of whether we have the right man in charge (a question which for many never went away!). Personally I don''t know if Gunn is the correct man for the job, up until about 3.30pm on Saturday I was beginning to think he might be, now I am returning to my original position of extreme skepticism. Therefore to my mind Gunn and his team have three or four games at most to prove themselves worthy of leading the club, if by the time we play Wycombe on the 22nd we have not got six points plus a win in the cup then I think the position will have become untenable and we will see protests at the ground, we simply cannot afford to muddle along hoping that he will eventually sort things out. Money has been gambled on getting promoted this season, if we don''t then it is likely administration will be very close, we needed results from day one to reassure everyone with an interest in the club that the correct man is at the helm, that hasn''t happened, if it had then Gunn would have longer to prove himself. The defeat on saturday and in particular the manner in which it occurred have severely reduce the amount of time that he has to prove himself capable. Unfortunately you cannot help but question his ability to motivate and instill confidence in his players after this result, plus the previous three competitive games of his tenure(Scum, Reading and Charlton). If there is not a massive improvement tonight i.e. a win, then the calls for his resignation will start to become too loud to ignore, I hate to say it but unless there are some pretty unusual circumstances to attenuate the blame then my voice will be among them.

If then action is not taken it will show that the mindset of Smith and Jones has not changed and the the new Cheif Exec does not have the power or the will to make them see sense. If that scenario realises itself then I think they will have used up their final get out of jail free card and will have to be forced out as soon as possible.  

[Shaker 0]

Very good o.p. thanks for taking the time. As someone else asked what happened with Wes??? not heard anything about this until now.

[Metatron 0]

"As someone else asked what happened with Wes??? not heard anything about this until now."

See the other threads about him giving some fans a one-finger salute after the game on Saturday

[Yellow Rider 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

[quote user="colneycanary"]Capital Canaries need to get some balls! Sounds like you completely sucked up to them!
[/quote]

Mate nobody sucked up to them (unless you call being civil sucking up). The problem is that whatever some on here might think about Delia and MWJ tthey are ultimately both nice people, who are passionate about our club and who take time out every year to come and talk to the Capitals. They could easily have ducked out of last night but they didn''t and I can tell you now getting a critical but constructive grilling as they did last night will hit home with them far more than having a group of people shout abuse outside the City Stand post match.

In my (admittedly biased view) it was one of the best forums I have attended as the numbers were quite small, the lines of questioning all followed logical lines and you were able to ask follow up questions immediately if you did not get an answer that you thought was sufficient.

Just to give my take on a couple of the answers ASMC has aluded to above:

1. Re Gunn as manager - they basically said they felt team Gunn had not had enough time with its own players to form a fair judgment. They said they had considered other candidates for the job although as stated above were not prepared to elaborate as to who they might have been (understandable that one in my view). Mcnally said on several occasions that football management is "the most cut throat business in the world" and that at the end of the day it is results that matter. He stressed this several times, he described Saturday as completely unacceptable and the overriding impression i got from him is that if things do not improve very quickly then he will not hang about in terms of making a decision. When asked about the "gave him a hug" story from SSN Delia asked the floor if there was anyone there who "hand on heart" did not feel sorry for Gunn on Saturday and got an overwhelming response from the floor which left her in no doubt there was very little sympathy.

2. Regarding selling the Club/investment - they were pinned down on this by one questioner who repeatedly went back to them for clarification on this point. My interpretation of what Delia and MWJ said was that they accept their shares are virtually worthless at the present moment in time and whilst i can''t remember the exact turn of phrase they as good as repeated their pledge that they would sell the club for nothing/a nominal amount if the right person came along who was prepared to put decent money into the playing squad. If the evening did nothing else then in my mind it clarified that position.

3. Re The 2 fans/Hoolahan as posted above the "investigation" is ongoing. I got the impression from Mcnally that something else went on in the tunnel after the fans were led off the pitch as he talked about punches being thrown and I didn''t see any of that on the pitch. Re Hoolahan he said that is being looked into as well. Interestingly though they did say Hoolahan has not said he wants to leave and when questioned over the summer Delia said he was one of the few first team players players who stressed they wanted to stay this season and play for us.

4. A further very good questioner pinned MWJ down again about what they had seen in the Reading, Charlton and Col U games that made them think Gunn was capable of being a manager. MWJ didn''t really have an answer and in the end end basically agreed with the questioner that the team looked a shambles on Saturday.

All in all i think it was a very constructive evening and credit to Delia, MWJ and Mcnally for turning out and taking quite a bit of flak at times.

 

[/quote]

Jim,

You write a great article but still seem, like so many fans, to be quite happy with the long line of appalling decision making, lack of leadership, mounting financial crisis etc.that has now run for 13 years just as long as D&M are ''nice people'' and ''come and talk to the fans''. That is not the point! The time for such niceties has long since gone.

Why did Capital Canaries not take a vote of no confidence and ask The Cook to resign?. That is what SHOULD have happened. Of course she would have refused (at that point anyway) following which the fans should have called an end to the meeting.

Just think of the headlines today.....''Fans walk out as as Smith refuses to resign'' . It would have brought the whole issue to a head and created a momentum that would have been very difficult for her to deal with. Same thing should have happened at the fans reps. meeting with the Board at CR last week. Both were great opportunities for fans to stand up as one and demand her resignation. Predictably we wimped out on both occasions preferring instead ....''lively debate'', ''probing questions'', ''speechlessness'' ''shuffling bums awkwardly on seats''etc. 

Smith has been asked sharp questions for years. I should know, I tried to pin her down at a forum in Diss in autumn 2005 when the Worthy Out campaign was gathering steam only to receive luke warm support from other fans. I wonder what those same fans who gave me disaparaging looks nearly 4 years ago think now, eh!!!        

[Yellow Rider 0]

[quote user="Felixfan"]

Fantastic post Jim - really puts matters in perspective,perhaps more so than last weeks meeting between the Board and supporters groups. Say what you like about DS and MWJ  I do not think there is another club in the country where the owners and CEO would stand up to be counted especially after Saturdays debacle.

 

[/quote]

So that''s alright then Felix!!!

Relegation to Div. Three for first time since 1960, debt tripling to £20M+, sheer shambles on the pitch with the ''odd job man'' at the helm, mounting rumours of administration, fans throwing back their season tickets........... yet as long as these amateurs hold fans meetings you are happy to stick with them. Amazing!!!! Get a backbone man!! If / when The Smith Out campaign ever gets underway I hope you''ll join us!  

[Mr. Bump 0]

So no-one could come up with a better available manager than Bryan Gunn, wow. Astounding.Seems that everyone had a nice cosy chat, no real issues were solved and no pressure put on the board what so ever.

[CANARY CHARGE 0]

[quote user="colneycanary"]Capital Canaries need to get some balls! Sounds like you completely sucked up to them![/quote]agreed ...doesnt sound like the lions den to me!!

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="Yellow Rider"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

[quote user="colneycanary"]Capital Canaries need to get some balls! Sounds like you completely sucked up to them!
[/quote]

Mate nobody sucked up to them (unless you call being civil sucking up). The problem is that whatever some on here might think about Delia and MWJ tthey are ultimately both nice people, who are passionate about our club and who take time out every year to come and talk to the Capitals. They could easily have ducked out of last night but they didn''t and I can tell you now getting a critical but constructive grilling as they did last night will hit home with them far more than having a group of people shout abuse outside the City Stand post match.

In my (admittedly biased view) it was one of the best forums I have attended as the numbers were quite small, the lines of questioning all followed logical lines and you were able to ask follow up questions immediately if you did not get an answer that you thought was sufficient.

Just to give my take on a couple of the answers ASMC has aluded to above:

1. Re Gunn as manager - they basically said they felt team Gunn had not had enough time with its own players to form a fair judgment. They said they had considered other candidates for the job although as stated above were not prepared to elaborate as to who they might have been (understandable that one in my view). Mcnally said on several occasions that football management is "the most cut throat business in the world" and that at the end of the day it is results that matter. He stressed this several times, he described Saturday as completely unacceptable and the overriding impression i got from him is that if things do not improve very quickly then he will not hang about in terms of making a decision. When asked about the "gave him a hug" story from SSN Delia asked the floor if there was anyone there who "hand on heart" did not feel sorry for Gunn on Saturday and got an overwhelming response from the floor which left her in no doubt there was very little sympathy.

2. Regarding selling the Club/investment - they were pinned down on this by one questioner who repeatedly went back to them for clarification on this point. My interpretation of what Delia and MWJ said was that they accept their shares are virtually worthless at the present moment in time and whilst i can''t remember the exact turn of phrase they as good as repeated their pledge that they would sell the club for nothing/a nominal amount if the right person came along who was prepared to put decent money into the playing squad. If the evening did nothing else then in my mind it clarified that position.

3. Re The 2 fans/Hoolahan as posted above the "investigation" is ongoing. I got the impression from Mcnally that something else went on in the tunnel after the fans were led off the pitch as he talked about punches being thrown and I didn''t see any of that on the pitch. Re Hoolahan he said that is being looked into as well. Interestingly though they did say Hoolahan has not said he wants to leave and when questioned over the summer Delia said he was one of the few first team players players who stressed they wanted to stay this season and play for us.

4. A further very good questioner pinned MWJ down again about what they had seen in the Reading, Charlton and Col U games that made them think Gunn was capable of being a manager. MWJ didn''t really have an answer and in the end end basically agreed with the questioner that the team looked a shambles on Saturday.

All in all i think it was a very constructive evening and credit to Delia, MWJ and Mcnally for turning out and taking quite a bit of flak at times.

 

[/quote]

Jim,

You write a great article but still seem, like so many fans, to be quite happy with the long line of appalling decision making, lack of leadership, mounting financial crisis etc.that has now run for 13 years just as long as D&M are ''nice people'' and ''come and talk to the fans''. That is not the point! The time for such niceties has long since gone.

Why did Capital Canaries not take a vote of no confidence and ask The Cook to resign?. That is what SHOULD have happened. Of course she would have refused (at that point anyway) following which the fans should have called an end to the meeting.

Just think of the headlines today.....''Fans walk out as as Smith refuses to resign'' . It would have brought the whole issue to a head and created a momentum that would have been very difficult for her to deal with. Same thing should have happened at the fans reps. meeting with the Board at CR last week. Both were great opportunities for fans to stand up as one and demand her resignation. Predictably we wimped out on both occasions preferring instead ....''lively debate'', ''probing questions'', ''speechlessness'' ''shuffling bums awkwardly on seats''etc. 

Smith has been asked sharp questions for years. I should know, I tried to pin her down at a forum in Diss in autumn 2005 when the Worthy Out campaign was gathering steam only to receive luke warm support from other fans. I wonder what those same fans who gave me disaparaging looks nearly 4 years ago think now, eh!!!        

[/quote]

 

YR - no i''m not happy at all and those that know me will confirm that I am not one to shy away from making my criticisms of the club known. I have confronted Delia and Michael in the past, most notably over Worthington at Plymouth. I was deeply unhappy at the way the Cullum thing panned out and still feel we missed our big chance there.  I again asked some critical questions last night. Maybe you are right and that is wimping out but as anyone who has met them will no doubt testify, when you meet Delia and Michael face to face at these events it can be quite disarming as you do realise that, whatever their faults may be, they do care and are not dragging us down on purpose! They are also extremely nice people when you talk to them at these things (although who knows what they say in the car on the way home!). Robert Chase they are not.

I take your point that people could have pushed it further but would beg the question what would have been the point in asking her to resign when they had already gone on record in response to earlier lines of questioning to say that they would walk away for nothing if the right person came in who would invest in the playing squad. Ultimately until that happens (and I take the point that it may have already but we don''t know about it) then all they will say is they can''t "resign" as majority shareholders.

[Yellow Rider 0]

But Jim, they do NOT have to stay on the Board JUST becuase they own the shares. I have said this time and time again recently. I have no problem with them trying to get their money back if that is what they are aiming for, after all they have contributed significantly over the years.

It has NEVER been a ''money'' thing with me as far as Smith is concerned. They have been neither ''prudent'' nor ''ambitious'' but instead have fallen bewteen the two with their incompetence. Couple this with her appalling lack of objective knowledge on football and her massive ego and you have a recipe for disaster. Sure they may have embraced and promoted the ''openness'' with the fans and I applaud that but their mismanagement is there for all to see.

Jimmy Jones held 19% of the club shares in 1995 yet resigned from the Board. He held on to those shares for some considerable time after. WHY CAN''T WE STAND UP AND ASK SMITH TO DO THE SAME.    

IF she had come out with a statement when Bowkett and McNally came along that she and her husband were delegating all decisionmaking to the rest of the Board then I could just about acccept her continued presence although I would have remained sceptical. That did not happen and we are simply clutching at straws if we now believe that she has relinquished control to McNally.  

[Ren 75]

[quote user="CANARYCHARGE"][quote user="colneycanary"]Capital Canaries need to get some balls! Sounds like you completely sucked up to them!
[/quote]

agreed ...doesnt sound like the lions den to me!!
[/quote]

What do you expect, the Capitals to attack them with knives and hammers? 

As has been said by Jim and others, they dont have to come and talk to fans and if all they received was swearing and personal attacks they would not speak to fans ever again.

How many other majoritry shareholders go and talk to long distant supporters groups, not just in London but up North and in the Midlands as well, not many that is for sure.

I would like Delia and MWJ to go, as I dont think they are right for NCFC, but dont have a go at them for having the decency to turn up at a fans forum.

Knowing this group very well, they would not have got of lightly I can assure you!

 

 

[Paul Lamberts Disciple 0]

[quote user="Yellow Rider"]

But Jim, they do NOT have to stay on the Board JUST becuase they own the shares. I have said this time and time again recently. I have no problem with them trying to get their money back if that is what they are aiming for, after all they have contributed significantly over the years.

It has NEVER been a ''money'' thing with me as far as Smith is concerned. They have been neither ''prudent'' nor ''ambitious'' but instead have fallen bewteen the two with their incompetence. Couple this with her appalling lack of objective knowledge on football and her massive ego and you have a recipe for disaster. Sure they may have embraced and promoted the ''openness'' with the fans and I applaud that but their mismanagement is there for all to see.

Jimmy Jones held 19% of the club shares in 1995 yet resigned from the Board. He held on to those shares for some considerable time after. WHY CAN''T WE STAND UP AND ASK SMITH TO DO THE SAME.    

IF she had come out with a statement when Bowkett and McNally came along that she and her husband were delegating all decisionmaking to the rest of the Board then I could just about acccept her continued presence although I would have remained sceptical. That did not happen and we are simply clutching at straws if we now believe that she has relinquished control to McNally.  

[/quote]Fantastic post YR. I believe DS is totally incapable of relinquishing executive control over the club, and I beleive the reason is that she now perceives NCFC to have totally transcended the status of a football club. She has created, quite in her own image, what she considers a real cornerstone of Norfolk cultural life, a shining beacon of morality, sportsmanship and hope for all members of the community. She cannot and will not allow this mission to founder. You are talking about the final chapter of her life''s work.Meanwhile we are left with owners that are immune to challenge, investigation or criticism, protected by the frailty of their amateurism, their naivety and their advancing old age.

[Barclay_Boy 0]

[quote user="Fernando Derveld"][quote user="Yellow Rider"]

But Jim, they do NOT have to stay on the Board JUST becuase they own the shares. I have said this time and time again recently. I have no problem with them trying to get their money back if that is what they are aiming for, after all they have contributed significantly over the years.

It has NEVER been a ''money'' thing with me as far as Smith is concerned. They have been neither ''prudent'' nor ''ambitious'' but instead have fallen bewteen the two with their incompetence. Couple this with her appalling lack of objective knowledge on football and her massive ego and you have a recipe for disaster. Sure they may have embraced and promoted the ''openness'' with the fans and I applaud that but their mismanagement is there for all to see.

Jimmy Jones held 19% of the club shares in 1995 yet resigned from the Board. He held on to those shares for some considerable time after. WHY CAN''T WE STAND UP AND ASK SMITH TO DO THE SAME.    

IF she had come out with a statement when Bowkett and McNally came along that she and her husband were delegating all decisionmaking to the rest of the Board then I could just about acccept her continued presence although I would have remained sceptical. That did not happen and we are simply clutching at straws if we now believe that she has relinquished control to McNally.  

[/quote]

Fantastic post YR.

I believe DS is totally incapable of relinquishing executive control over the club, and I beleive the reason is that she now perceives NCFC to have totally transcended the status of a football club. She has created, quite in her own image, what she considers a real cornerstone of Norfolk cultural life, a shining beacon of morality, sportsmanship and hope for all members of the community. She cannot and will not allow this mission to founder. You are talking about the final chapter of her life''s work.

Meanwhile we are left with owners that are immune to challenge, investigation or criticism, protected by the frailty of their amateurism, their naivety and their advancing old age.
[/quote]

 

Great posts Yellow Rider and Fernando, and thanks to the OP for a comprehensive report. The problem is that the comments reported are, as another poster stated, even more worrying than Saturday''s result. And sorry Cap Canaries, you do seem to have given them a really easy ride. They may be nice people, but look at what they''ve done to NCFC! And as for McNally calling DS & MWJ "angel investors" as reported in today''s EP, well that''s your credibility gone mate!

[CanaryOne 0]

Exactly what i was thinking Barclay_Boy , McNally the man who was going to sort out the Smiths and this mess of a club thinks the Stowmarket two are Angel investors , just another paid yes man .This club is completely finished and you can only see another relegation following pretty soon.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="Gunn Be Gone"]Exactly what i was thinking Barclay_Boy , McNally the man who was going to sort out the Smiths and this mess of a club thinks the Stowmarket two are Angel investors , just another paid yes man .This club is completely finished and you can only see another relegation following pretty soon.
[/quote]

Are good some realism at last. I pay your wages and employ you, are you going to slate me,argue with me and try and over ride my decisions.

So that just leaves the poacher turned gamekeeper who is no were to be seen and the Archant guy.

Yep I''m still full of confidence in the new board, Gunn and a certain three points against Colchester errr.....................

[dizgoo 0]

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"][quote user="Fernando Derveld"][quote user="Yellow Rider"]

But Jim, they do NOT have to stay on the Board JUST becuase they own the shares. I have said this time and time again recently. I have no problem with them trying to get their money back if that is what they are aiming for, after all they have contributed significantly over the years.

It has NEVER been a ''money'' thing with me as far as Smith is concerned. They have been neither ''prudent'' nor ''ambitious'' but instead have fallen bewteen the two with their incompetence. Couple this with her appalling lack of objective knowledge on football and her massive ego and you have a recipe for disaster. Sure they may have embraced and promoted the ''openness'' with the fans and I applaud that but their mismanagement is there for all to see.

Jimmy Jones held 19% of the club shares in 1995 yet resigned from the Board. He held on to those shares for some considerable time after. WHY CAN''T WE STAND UP AND ASK SMITH TO DO THE SAME.    

IF she had come out with a statement when Bowkett and McNally came along that she and her husband were delegating all decisionmaking to the rest of the Board then I could just about acccept her continued presence although I would have remained sceptical. That did not happen and we are simply clutching at straws if we now believe that she has relinquished control to McNally.  

[/quote]

Fantastic post YR.

I believe DS is totally incapable of relinquishing executive control over the club, and I beleive the reason is that she now perceives NCFC to have totally transcended the status of a football club. She has created, quite in her own image, what she considers a real cornerstone of Norfolk cultural life, a shining beacon of morality, sportsmanship and hope for all members of the community. She cannot and will not allow this mission to founder. You are talking about the final chapter of her life''s work.

Meanwhile we are left with owners that are immune to challenge, investigation or criticism, protected by the frailty of their amateurism, their naivety and their advancing old age.
[/quote]

 

Great posts Yellow Rider and Fernando, and thanks to the OP for a comprehensive report. The problem is that the comments reported are, as another poster stated, even more worrying than Saturday''s result. And sorry Cap Canaries, you do seem to have given them a really easy ride. They may be nice people, but look at what they''ve done to NCFC! And as for McNally calling DS & MWJ "angel investors" as reported in today''s EP, well that''s your credibility gone mate!

[/quote]

 

I was there last night....and believe me when I say they DID NOT get an easy time.

You can''t just turn up at these formal AGMs and abuse the majority shareholders, the whole thing would then just lose all credibility.

Delia and Michael are intelligent, pleasent people. Yes, they have ruined our football club but as has been said before, if we as supporters put forward constructive and eloquent criticism they are going to listen.

That''s not to say I''m against standing outside the Directors Box after the Wycombe and calling for their heads, both forms of protest have their place.

 

[Bury Yellow 2]

I very much appreciate the reports and comments from the OP, Jim and others.

I have been to meetings both public and private with Delia.

The private meetings remain private of course but the public meetings now I think have become an irrelevance.

Her attitude and philosophy of life means we are all banging our heads against the wall.

I see only two basic ways out of these depressing times. One is to hope that results continue to be poor and, two that Bowkett and McNally are what we hope they are and start a complete overhaul with the aim of promotion this year.

It''s not too late and I am thankful now that this has come to a head even quicker than most have us anticipated.

Alternatively we could now go on a splendid run and come November, me and many others may look stupid!!

[Felixfan 53]

[quote user="Yellow Rider"][quote user="Felixfan"]

Fantastic post Jim - really puts matters in perspective,perhaps more so than last weeks meeting between the Board and supporters groups. Say what you like about DS and MWJ  I do not think there is another club in the country where the owners and CEO would stand up to be counted especially after Saturdays debacle.

 

[/quote]

So that''s alright then Felix!!!

Relegation to Div. Three for first time since 1960, debt tripling to £20M+, sheer shambles on the pitch with the ''odd job man'' at the helm, mounting rumours of administration, fans throwing back their season tickets........... yet as long as these amateurs hold fans meetings you are happy to stick with them. Amazing!!!! Get a backbone man!! If / when The Smith Out campaign ever gets underway I hope you''ll join us!  

[/quote]

I never said it was alright and I am not happy. You know that I will always speak my mind at AGMs or SCG meetings,but there is more than one way of skinning a rabbit and the blunt instrument is not always the best. If a more radical approach ever takes off I will decide the best way to make maximum impact.

[Crafty Canary 495]

I''m oop North too and I''m not embarrassed by admitting my Canaries allegience. I am embarrassed by the dipsticks that own and manage it but that''s another issue.

[Yellow Rider 0]

[quote user="dizgoo"][quote user="Barclay_Boy"][quote user="Fernando Derveld"][quote user="Yellow Rider"]

But Jim, they do NOT have to stay on the Board JUST becuase they own the shares. I have said this time and time again recently. I have no problem with them trying to get their money back if that is what they are aiming for, after all they have contributed significantly over the years.

It has NEVER been a ''money'' thing with me as far as Smith is concerned. They have been neither ''prudent'' nor ''ambitious'' but instead have fallen bewteen the two with their incompetence. Couple this with her appalling lack of objective knowledge on football and her massive ego and you have a recipe for disaster. Sure they may have embraced and promoted the ''openness'' with the fans and I applaud that but their mismanagement is there for all to see.

Jimmy Jones held 19% of the club shares in 1995 yet resigned from the Board. He held on to those shares for some considerable time after. WHY CAN''T WE STAND UP AND ASK SMITH TO DO THE SAME.    

IF she had come out with a statement when Bowkett and McNally came along that she and her husband were delegating all decisionmaking to the rest of the Board then I could just about acccept her continued presence although I would have remained sceptical. That did not happen and we are simply clutching at straws if we now believe that she has relinquished control to McNally.  

[/quote]

Fantastic post YR.

I believe DS is totally incapable of relinquishing executive control over the club, and I beleive the reason is that she now perceives NCFC to have totally transcended the status of a football club. She has created, quite in her own image, what she considers a real cornerstone of Norfolk cultural life, a shining beacon of morality, sportsmanship and hope for all members of the community. She cannot and will not allow this mission to founder. You are talking about the final chapter of her life''s work.

Meanwhile we are left with owners that are immune to challenge, investigation or criticism, protected by the frailty of their amateurism, their naivety and their advancing old age.
[/quote]

 

Great posts Yellow Rider and Fernando, and thanks to the OP for a comprehensive report. The problem is that the comments reported are, as another poster stated, even more worrying than Saturday''s result. And sorry Cap Canaries, you do seem to have given them a really easy ride. They may be nice people, but look at what they''ve done to NCFC! And as for McNally calling DS & MWJ "angel investors" as reported in today''s EP, well that''s your credibility gone mate!

[/quote]

 

I was there last night....and believe me when I say they DID NOT get an easy time.

You can''t just turn up at these formal AGMs and abuse the majority shareholders, the whole thing would then just lose all credibility.

Delia and Michael are intelligent, pleasent people. Yes, they have ruined our football club but as has been said before, if we as supporters put forward constructive and eloquent criticism they are going to listen.

That''s not to say I''m against standing outside the Directors Box after the Wycombe and calling for their heads, both forms of protest have their place.

 

[/quote]

Hi Dizgoo,

Firstly, as you were there I obviously take your word that they were not given an easy ride so fair do''s for that.

Who said anything about ....''abuse'', I certainly haven''t. Calling for a vote of no confidence and asking that directors resign is pretty standard stuff. Abuse it most certainly ain''t!

Finally, .....''they are going to listen''. Sorry but they have been ''listening'' for about 13 years!! Fact is thay have done precisely NOTHING in response. We were accused of being a ''mindless minority'' during the Worthy Out campaign until, lo and behold, The Cook was forced to admit we were right all along! ''Listening'' is typical modern day political speak to try and defuse complaints put forward by Joe Public. Gordon Brown will tell youy he listens, doesn''t make him any good as PM does it!

I just think that if both recent fans meetings had ended with votes of no confidence and calls for their resignation backed by large majority of the audience with the subsequent media coverage, we just may have started a train of events that The Cook simply couldn''t ignore. McNally just might, by now, have passed her the loaded revolver. Fact is though that there are too many fans who have been so taken in by the whole Delia celebrity thing that they can''t bear to go the whole hog and ask their hero to stand down.  

 

[dizgoo 0]

I agree YR.

Not everyone on here is calling for "abuse" but some are certainly alluding to that.

I now believe the majority of Norwich supporters want her gone but unfortunatly she surrounds herself with lovesick sycophants such as Mick Dennis who tell her everything is rosy and she is great. It was easy to hate and abuse Chase as he was a Grade A ****. In the presence of Delia some people seem to melt!

I honestly believe that some of the comments last night hit home with D&M and my trust is in McNally to sort this mess out, which begins with getting shot of Bryan Gunn.

 

 

 

[Yellow Rider 0]

[quote user="dizgoo"]

I agree YR.

Not everyone on here is calling for "abuse" but some are certainly alluding to that.

I now believe the majority of Norwich supporters want her gone but unfortunatly she surrounds herself with lovesick sycophants such as Mick Dennis who tell her everything is rosy and she is great. It was easy to hate and abuse Chase as he was a Grade A ****. In the presence of Delia some people seem to melt!

I honestly believe that some of the comments last night hit home with D&M and my trust is in McNally to sort this mess out, which begins with getting shot of Bryan Gunn.

 

 

 

[/quote]

Good points, I hope you''re right that the message MAY this time have been taken on board but I''m not holding my breath! Very perceptive point about those who surround her and praise her, Stephen Fry is another who has recently sounded off about how wonderful she is!!

I honestly feel that simple straighforward, SMITH OUT chants with a ''red card'' protest inside the ground that she can see and hear could be enough to do the trick if we could get enough fans involved. Smith lives off her own publicity and the adulation of her followers. Once she sees and hears how the masses think (and that has never happened during her 13 year reign), I think she would find the embarrassment and humiliation too much to take and would quickly jack it in. This kind of thing was water off a ducks back to Chase but Smith does not have his backbone!  

[Bury Yellow 2]

Totally agree YR but i think this will almost have to develop naturally. The timing of that desired point will be determined by how results go over the next few games.

It will come as no surprise that even with a good cross section of supporters sitting around me, 100% take a similar view to you, me and all the other growing band!

[kdncfc 0]

The more I think about all this the more attractive administration looks, we would get rid of the debts and Smith and Jones in one hit. With the debts gone I''m sure someone would step in and take the club on. It''s going to happen sooner or later so we might as well get it over with and make a fresh start. I don''t think it''s morally right but these clowns have put the club in a position where there doesn''t seem to be much of a choice.

[dizgoo 0]

[quote user="Yellow Rider"][quote user="dizgoo"]

I agree YR.

Not everyone on here is calling for "abuse" but some are certainly alluding to that.

I now believe the majority of Norwich supporters want her gone but unfortunatly she surrounds herself with lovesick sycophants such as Mick Dennis who tell her everything is rosy and she is great. It was easy to hate and abuse Chase as he was a Grade A ****. In the presence of Delia some people seem to melt!

I honestly believe that some of the comments last night hit home with D&M and my trust is in McNally to sort this mess out, which begins with getting shot of Bryan Gunn.

 

 

 

[/quote]

Good points, I hope you''re right that the message MAY this time have been taken on board but I''m not holding my breath! Very perceptive point about those who surround her and praise her, Stephen Fry is another who has recently sounded off about how wonderful she is!!

I honestly feel that simple straighforward, SMITH OUT chants with a ''red card'' protest inside the ground that she can see and hear could be enough to do the trick if we could get enough fans involved. Smith lives off her own publicity and the adulation of her followers. Once she sees and hears how the masses think (and that has never happened during her 13 year reign), I think she would find the embarrassment and humiliation too much to take and would quickly jack it in. This kind of thing was water off a ducks back to Chase but Smith does not have his backbone!  

[/quote]

 

Agreed.

No need to be personal, but if the crowd turns (in a civilised manner if that''s possible) then she would walk.

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

Evening all.

Having recovered a little from last night''s excesses I''ve had another look through the notes I took at the meeting. To be honest peering through a beery haze in the early hours is not the most sensible way to write a report so there''s one or two things from the Q & A session to add now :

Question : Michael, you said no-one wants football clubs - what about Notts County ?

MWJ : We''ll see about Notts County, Southampton and Plymouth. There''s no takers at Charlton

Further question on the same subject : Ipswich were bought, Peterborough were bought. Are we being actively marketed ?

MWJ : ( No direct answer ) Southampton owe £30 million. Ipswich have a benefactor.

Question : If I had £5 million to give to NCFC but didn''t want it to go to reduce debt what would you say ?

DS : We would say, " Welcome to football "

DM : We need to find an investor with similar values and aspirations. It''s a big ask. We will get more angel investors. We MUST service our debt. We need to re-structure. The financial situation is dire. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.Our turnover is well below Prem/Championship levels. ( the admission that the financial situation is dire seems to fly in the face of DS''s assertion on another question that things could be worse )

Question : Our debt was unmanageable before. What is it now ?

DM : ( No direct answer ) Income has dropped by a third but our expenses are the same ( where this figure was plucked from is a mystery to me ) 

Previously reported on my original post :

 Question : Why are we in a mess when we get such large attendances each week ?

DM : We spend too much. We have a duty of care to ensure that NCFC is here in another 107 years. We will get a plan together.

DS : We''re fighting a fire called finance. The alternative is administration.

MWJ : Our attendance doesn''t pay it''s way

Someone then mentioned Burnley and Blackpool, similar smaller Clubs, as comparisons.

MWJ : Millions have been pumped into Burnley by their Directors. Turf Moor and their training ground sold two years ago. Blackpool''s new stand effectively paid for by the Archant Group as the owner sold his magazine titles to them.

I think , at last, I''ve covered all the questions and answers thrown across the floor last night. Sorry once again for the length of the two parts of the post - it''s a big ''un even for me - but I think it''s important that as full account as possible be given in view of the mess NCFC finds itself in right now.

Finally it''s easy to hurl the most ridiculous insults at people from behind a keyboard but, somehow, the same people never seem to be able to do it face-to-face. I''ve noticed at other meetings how some of the biggest ranters and ravers on screen become quite tame when put on the spot in the flesh. If they bother to show up to any of the meetings at all, that is.

Some of the descriptions used by people on here, particularly in respect of Delia, a woman, are quite disgusting and unnecessary.

Most people I''ve spoken to think yesterday''s event, conducted in an orderly fashion as it was, will have gone a little way at least in making an impression on the Board of Directors of NCFC. Delia, Michael and David will have gone away in the full knowledge that if they find unrest at a moderate supporter''s group like ours then time really is running out for them to get it right......

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."]

Evening all.

[/quote]Thanks for your reports, and those from other posters. Sterling work.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."]

Some of the descriptions used by people on here, particularly in respect of Delia, a woman, are quite disgusting and unnecessary.

[/quote]

Thank you for your input Smith and could not agree with you more with respect to your above comment.

[ref89 0]

Perhaps next time just do a sneaky recording and post it as a podcast....

[G 0]

"Question : Will the alleged incident after the match involving Wes Hoolahan be investigated ?" 

 What was this all about??

 

 

I am a capital canary but couldn''t make last night, had a long discussion with my mate who was; apparently he gave some of the fans protesting outside the ground the finger as he drove off, don''t know anything about the circumstances e.g. abuse from the fans? but it doesn''t look good for our prospects of holding on to him. Wes asked specifically to stay at the end of last season, but this could point to a change in his attitude. If he''s on the team sheet tonight I will breathe a lot easier as I still believe he will be vital to any chances we have of promotion.

 

Aww what a shame. I will be really sad to see him go. If fans are giving him abuse then he deserves to give them the finger in my opinion.