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Yellow Rider

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  1. Yellow Rider

    view from a Chelsea fan

    [quote user="City1st"]

    "2. we stood off them too much like frightened rabbits"

     

    sums it up perfectly

     

     

    [/quote]

    Agreed - too much of the ....''little old Norwich'' syndrome creeping in again I''m afraid. Came across with boring regularity on Rodeo Norfolk commentary! Seems CH has reverted to a Worthy type mentality when it comes to playing the top sides (although Spurs was a throw back to last season and proves we can compete with those top teams if our mindset is right).

    Expect much of the same v Arsenal and almost certainly a three or four goal defeat. Sorry, but unless we discover the fire of last season why should it be any different?    

  2. Yellow Rider

    Ricardo's report Fans Forum

    [quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Resident Canary Stig"]I do enjoy your reports Ricardo, but what were your overall feelings? Were you convinced by them? Or would you rather be convinced by actions?[/quote]

    I have said before that I have been impressed with Bowkett and McNally. Those of us who have been to many AGM''s over the years will remember the amateur stuff from previous Chairmen and CE''s. I firmly believe we are in good hands with those two.  Bowkett said something that surprised me tonight about Delia and MWJ. He said that in proportion to their wealth they had backed the club to a far greater extent than any other owners in the Premier League.

    As to CH, he strikes me as a thoughtful and genuine guy. He is also a much better speaker than Paul Lambert ever was. I believe he will be a success at this club even if things are a bit hairy at the moment. 
    [/quote]

    Yeah - but that''s not exactly difficult is it! You thought Kenny Dalglish was impossible to understand until you heard PL open his mouth. Or should I say ....''mumble through pretty much closed lips'' becuase that''s what he does! 

  3. Yellow Rider

    Hillsborough Report - Norwich Memories

    [quote user="Karl Pilkington"]

    http://bluelagosontour.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/23-years-ago.html

    Not sure if this has already been posted, but this is a blog by an Ipswich fan who was there on the day.

    It does bring home how awful it must have been and how much things have changed for football fans since the 1980''s.

     

    [/quote]

    Just scanned through it Karl - Wow, that must be the most emotional account of Hillsborough  I''ve ever heard. Frightening, terrifying, words can''t describe it. When I arrived home from Villa Park and the death toll was up to about 90 I remember sitting down on the settee with head in hands and wept. I feel the bloody same writing this at work 23 years on so what those who were as involved as that guy must have felt down the years just can''t be imagined. 

    I''ll print the thing off and keep it. Why? To make sure I never, ever forget that day. Even though I wasn''t there I have always said that Hillsborough was the worst day of my life. 23 years on that remains the case.       

  4. Yellow Rider

    Hillsborough Report - Norwich Memories

    [quote user="Infidel Castro"][quote user="Mungo Bumpkin"]1. What exactly waas going on outside the ground at the Leppings Lane end in the minutes leading upto the gates being opened?
    2. What caused the crush - was it sheer weight of numbers spilling over from the turnstile queues or was it some fans trying to force their way inside ?
     [/quote]

    This is covered in the report, p94-98. I''m not going to quote it all but its there if you want to read it.

    [quote]It has to be said that in the football world, the scousers have had a reputation (at big games) for some of their fans trying to............''bunk in''  (their expression). Even as recently as 2007, there was a serious (yet pretty much unreported) incident at Stamford Bridge in the Champions League semi final. Then in the final at Athens it went a stage further with reports of fans stealing tickets off others with others actually forcing their way past ticket entrances. Inside the ground there was some serious incidents of fans getting crushed in concourses trying to get on to the actual viewing areas. Now, because (thankfully) no one was seriously injured or killed the papers and mainstream media did''nt run the story. Talk Sport did though and they gave it saturation coverage the next morning.[/quote]

    Regardless of these other events (that you provide no evidence for), two inquiries have found no evidence of significant numbers of ticketless Liverpool fans being a contributing factor to the disasters.

    [quote]Now just because ''bunking in'' happened in 2007 it sure as hell does not automatically mean that it was attempted in 1989.  Truth is we can''t be sure it didn''t happen. [/quote]


    Two inquiries have found no evidence that it happened, what more do you want?


    [quote]Camerons words have been twisted by scousers and others hell bent on blaming everyone other than the fans. What he actuallly said is very revealing:-  

    ''There was no evidence of EXCEPTIONAL levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness, arriving late'' etc. So some of this did hapen then.[/quote]


    Exceptional may be the word Cameron used, but in the report it is discussed in terms of significance. That is, whether or not drunkeness, ticketlessness, and lateness were contributing factors to the disaster, no evidence was found that suggested they were. Again, what more do you want? 


    [quote]My point to all this is that IF some fans were trying to force those gates down then they should take a share of the blame. Not ''all'' the blame,not ''most'' of the blame but ''part'' of the blame.  I retain an open mind on this until I can (if I ever do) research the whole report. Ijust have an uneasy feeling that as with other incidents it was all ....''their fault, nothing to do with the Liverpool fans or people''. Make no mistake this perception of the massive chip on the shoulder that scousers love to portray is widespread in the UK. If you were at the match at Carow Road late last season you will have heard what many City fans think about that"[/quote]


    If your aunt had balls she''d be your uncle, I don''t see how baseless conjecture trumps a 389 page comprehensive report with quotes and sources.


    [/quote]

    I will ignore that last comment Infidel but, seriously, you have clearly spent a lot of time on your research which I had not (at time of writing the post). You make (and quote) very good points. I will read those pages. Thank you for directing me to them.

    All I would say about 2007 is just because there was no ''enquiry'' does not automativcally mean those events were pure ''conjecture'' as you put it. Ask Talk Sport for a copy of their programmes that morning. It was rivetting lisening.  

    Anyway, I''m now off to find those pages, cheers.

     

  5. Yellow Rider

    Hillsborough Report - Norwich Memories

    [quote user="Mungo Bumpkin"]

    Yellow Rider posted this very eloquent and insightful post on the other thread. Those jumping on this hysterical bandwaggon would be well served to read it.

    "I can understand your annoyance at the previous post but I must admit to being a tad disturbed at now being told that Liverpool fans were ...''entirely without blame'' ''totally exonerated'' etc.  Now let me get this straight, the findings released yeterday were shocking and you''re spot on in saying that those responsible for the cover up must be pursued and criminal proceedings (if necessary) brought against them.

    However, the pivotal moment of the whole day was the decision by Chief Supt. Dukinfield to open the gates. I have not yet read anything that (and to be fair it''s probably within the 400k pages somewhere!) specifically deals with that. Now notwithstanding the bungling, poor attitude and subsequent cover up by Mr. Plod, the fact  is that Dukinfield was placed in an invidious position. Open the gates and let everyone in with /without tickets or stand firm and quite possibly watch as fans got seriously injured  or died in the crush outside. What I really want to understand before I join this nationwide emotional bandwagon of unswerving support for the fans is:-

    1. What exactly waas going on outside the ground at the Leppings Lane end in the minutes leading upto the gates being opened?  

    2. What caused the crush - was it sheer weight of numbers spilling over from the turnstile queues or was it some fans trying to force their way inside ?

    It has to be said that in the football world, the scousers have had a reputation (at big games) for some of their fans trying to............''bunk in''  (their expression). Even as recently as 2007, there was a serious (yet pretty much unreported) incident at Stamford Bridge in the Champions League semi final. Then in the final at Athens it went a stage further with reports of fans stealing tickets off others with others actually forcing their way past ticket entrances. Inside the ground there was some serious incidents of fans getting crushed in concourses trying to get on to the actual viewing areas. Now, because (thankfully) no one was seriously injured or killed the papers and mainstream media did''nt run the story. Talk Sport did though and they gave it saturation coverage the next morning.

    Typically the main reaction from scousers was to blame - UEFA, the local police, the stadium, lack of tickets, in short everything and everyone apart from themselves. HOWEVER, there was one or two objective, sensible and realistic scousers who rang in with their side of the story. They confirmed the reports and one said pointedly.......''have our fans learned nothing since Hillsborough''   

    Now just because ''bunking in'' happened in 2007 it sure as hell does not automatically mean that it was attempted in 1989.  Truth is we can''t be sure it didn''t happen. Camerons words have been twisted by scousers and others hell bent on blaming everyone other than the fans. What he actuallly said is very revealing:-  

    ''There was no evidence of EXCEPTIONAL levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness, arriving late'' etc. So some of this did hapen then.

    My point to all this is that IF some fans were trying to force those gates down then they should take a share of the blame. Not ''all'' the blame,not ''most'' of the blame but ''part'' of the blame.  I retain an open mind on this until I can (if I ever do) research the whole report. Ijust have an uneasy feeling that as with other incidents it was all ....''their fault, nothing to do with the Liverpool fans or people''. Make no mistake this perception of the massive chip on the shoulder that scousers love to portray is widespread in the UK. If you were at the match at Carow Road late last season you will have heard what many City fans think about that"

    Very well put, sir.

    [/quote]

    Thank you for your comments Mungo. Unfortunately Hillsborough stirs very passionate arguments with balance and objectivity going out of the window. Ricky is right when he mentions the attitude of the Plod in the 70''s and 80''s. EVERY football fan was a potential thug in their eyes and I''ll never forget the worst memory of Hillsborough which was of a numbskull copper standing feet away from the front fence staring in defiance as poor souls slowly fainted and then died in sheer terror just in front of him whilst he did nothing to help!

    Most stories have two sides though. I have absolutely nothing against Scousers whatsoever but IF some were trying to force their way in then they MUST take part of the overall accountability surely?  If not then that gives an open door for any thugs to do just as they like and to hell with the consequences. Unfortunately we live in a society where everyone knows ''their rights'' but steadfastly refuse to accept any responsibility. It''s always someone elses fault.    

  6. Yellow Rider

    Everyone Should Sign This Petition

    [quote user="ricky knight"]have you actually been watching the news, you sir are a prize xxxx.[/quote]

    Ricky,

    I can understand your annoyance at the previous post but I must admit to being a tad disturbed at now being told that Liverpool fans were ...''entirely without blame'' ''totally exonerated'' etc.  Now let me get this straight, the findings released yeterday were shocking and you''re spot on in saying that those responsible for the cover up must be pursued and criminal proceedings (if necessary) brought against them.

    However, the pivotal moment of the whole day was the decision by Chief Supt. Dukinfield to open the gates. I have not yet read anything that (and to be fair it''s probably within the 400k pages somewhere!) specifically deals with that. Now notwithstanding the bungling, poor attitude and subsequent cover up by Mr. Plod, the fact  is that Dukinfield was placed in an invidious position. Open the gates and let everyone in with /without tickets or stand firm and quite possibly watch as fans got seriously injured  or died in the crush outside. What I really want to understand before I join this nationwide emotional bandwagon of unswerving support for the fans is:-

    1. What exactly waas going on outside the ground at the Leppings Lane end in the minutes leading upto the gates being opened?  

    2. What caused the crush - was it sheer weight of numbers spilling over from the turnstile queues or was it some fans trying to force their way inside ?

    It has to be said that in the football world, the scousers have had a reputation (at big games) for some of their fans trying to............''bunk in''  (their expression). Even as recently as 2007, there was a serious (yet pretty much unreported) incident at Stamford Bridge in the Champions League semi final. Then in the final at Athens it went a stage further with reports of fans stealing tickets off others with others actually forcing their way past ticket entrances. Inside the ground there was some serious incidents of fans getting crushed in concourses trying to get on to the actual viewing areas. Now, because (thankfully) no one was seriously injured or killed the papers and mainstream media did''nt run the story. Talk Sport did though and they gave it saturation coverage the next morning.

    Typically the main reaction from scousers was to blame - UEFA, the local police, the stadium, lack of tickets, in short everything and everyone apart from themselves. HOWEVER, there was one or two objective, sensible and realistic scousers who rang in with their side of the story. They confirmed the reports and one said pointedly.......''have our fans learned nothing since Hillsborough''   

    Now just because ''bunking in'' happened in 2007 it sure as hell does not automatically mean that it was attempted in 1989.  Truth is we can''t be sure it didn''t happen. Camerons words have been twisted by scousers and others hell bent on blaming everyone other than the fans. What he actuallly said is very revealing:-  

    ''There was no evidence of EXCEPTIONAL levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness, arriving late'' etc. So some of this did hapen then.

    My point to all this is that IF some fans were trying to force those gates down then they should take a share of the blame. Not ''all'' the blame,not ''most'' of the blame but ''part'' of the blame.  I retain an open mind on this until I can (if I ever do) research the whole report. Ijust have an uneasy feeling that as with other incidents it was all ....''their fault, nothing to do with the Liverpool fans or people''. Make no mistake this perception of the massive chip on the shoulder that scousers love to portray is widespread in the UK. If you were at the match at Carow Road late last season you will have heard what many City fans think about that.   

  7. Yellow Rider

    Todays tactics

    I went to The Cottage but (typically) missed today!

    For me the whole season was going to revolve round our approach to WHL. We all know how positive our play was (very largely) in away games last season and we finished with 5 wins and 5 draws. Compare that to the dross Worthy served up on the road (Southampton match excepted) in 2004-2005. We have never been a club who can successfully shut up shop and grind out a series of 0-0 draws away from home. In any event the travelling fans will not tolerate that  negativity and it would only lead to a truly dreadful away record and almost certain relegation.

    That was why the approach to the game and the performance was far, far more important than the result. From what I heard on the radio the performance was a throw back to last season in many respects and IF that is the basic philosophy and strategy that CH will adopt this season then we''ll be fine. Even after the late equaliser, the boys were still going for it apparently and that must surely put to rest the argument that many fans were spouting after the Fulham collapse as evidence that CH was a ''dreary'', ''negative'', ''boring'' manager.    

    I still have concerns about the strikers we have but if CH could not find the player he wanted without paying absurd amounts in transfer fees and wages then so be it. What is in no doubt is the improvements to defence and the additional quality, flexibility and competitiveness in midfield / wide areas.

     

  8. Yellow Rider

    Team for Saturday against QPR?

    [quote user="Robert Parsons"][quote user="Hasslehound"]I would like to see Bassong straight in alongside Turner, who can hopefully put the Fulham game behind him. Garrido in for Tierney. Two up front as it''s clear Holt as the lone frontman still isn''t working. Vaughan makes sense partnering him but rumours persist there''s a move away lined up. Snodgrass switched to the right where he was so successful for Leeds. I imagine Hughton will stick with Howson and Johnson in the middle.[/quote] Snodgrass cannot be "switched to the right" as that is where he played (not very well) at Fulham. RP[/quote]

    Snodgrass is a left footed player so should play left wing!! Play him right side and you simply lose attacking width and crosses from the goal line as all he will do is hold the ball up and cut inside and run into trouble. I did''nt see him play much for Leeds I agree but I went to Elland Road in that pulsating league game in the Championship season and early on he was turning Rusell Martin inside out by playing left wing.

    Likewise Pilkington (essentially right footed) should play right wing, failing that in attacking role just off the striker. The guy is NOT a left winger for christs sake.    

  9. Yellow Rider

    Welcome to the Real World..............

    [quote user="Chunky Norwich"]

    I think the only real benefit of getting a spanking on the opening day is that Hughton knows we have to change it and change it fast. Also hopefully he''ll give the players a bit of a rocket. Had we lost 1-0 or 2-0 yet still played the same formation and players acting sluggishly, we might have been able to brush it under the carpet and carry on for the next couple of games in exactly the same kind of vain, getting beaten again and again and again.

     

    Fingers crossed that it was a wake-up call to the players and management as much as it was to the fans. Definitely more so with the transfer window looming - it may even convince the board to stump up a bit more cash.

    [/quote]

    Was saying exactly same thing to myself earlier - spot on.

    Saturday will have been just as much a wake up call to CH as to the players. IF (and I don''t support this theory) he is this ''negative, defensive, boring, rigid'' manager that the new critcics are saying then a 5-0 thrashing (+ the woeful (generally) performance) SHOULD be the slap in the face with a wet fish he needs.

    We will only tell that not from QPR when CH was always going to be more positive anyway but from the next couple of very difficult away games. If we see more passionate and bold style at WHL and St.James Park then that''s all we realistically want and can expect.   

  10. Yellow Rider

    HARD TRUTHS

    [quote user="PurpleCanary"]Since everyone else seems to have started a thread on the same subject...[;)]

    The new-broom effect of the new regime has obscured (for some at least) he uncomfortable truth that we because we are not top of the football food chain we are still subject to some harsh realities.

    1. If we find a talented manager he WILL leave. The top six in my watching time, in alphabetical order, are Bond, Lambert, Macaulay, Saunders, Stringer and Walker. Saunders was sacked and Stringer effectively retired, burned out. The other four all walked out to join bigger clubs. There is no public evidence at all that we could have held on to Lambert, let alone anything to support the recent rather lonely thesis that the directors wanted him gone and may even have helped engineer his departure.

    2. Apart from half a dozen or so world-renowned super-managers - whom we could never hope to attract - there is no guarantee that a new manager will do well. If I had a case of decent champagne for every post here expressing "total faith" or "total certainty" that McNally would choose the right successor to Lambert when the time came I would be very happy. And a bit tipsy. For starters, it was never going to be McNally''s decision, his major role in Lambert''s arrival notwithstanding. But more to the point, it is still laregly a lottery. As shown by the lack of consensus here when Lambert left.

    3. We are still owned by paupers. The supposed riches of the Premier League are to an extent illusory. With the extra money comes extra expenditure. And we do have to pay off our hard debt by October 2013. Unless I am very much mistaken we are not going to arrange some new form of debt to pay off the existing debt. But what is hamstringing us in terms of attracting in players is not so much the debt - which is a short-term consideration - as our wage ceiling. Which is a much longer-term consideration. This is a guess, but I strongly suspect that all three promoted sides have a higher wage ceiling than ours, despite our squillions of pound in revenue from last season. That should be absurd. That shouldn''t be the case. But probably is. And we simply cannot take the risk of following the example of quite a few clubs we could all mention.[/quote]

    Top post Purple - nice to see some measured response to the mob who simply follow the herd based on each Saturday''s results. Win next week (especially if it''s with any conviction) and they will disappear, lose and they will be getting the noose ready for CH''s neck and the stands for the baying public will be erected in front of Norwich Castle!  

    I have had experience of hiring staff and no matter what process you go through, I totally agree that the end result remains (largely) down to luck. What is (or was) encouraging with the appointment of CH was the overwhelming goodwill and positive vibes from those in football and fans of Newcastle and Birmingham who spoke universally of admiration for the guy. Yet with one bad result the canary fanatics are ignoring all that and holding CH in same contempt as a certain Mr Roeder!

    Provided he plays two up front (and we need to get someone with real pace in there) and also plays wide men on their correct flank instead of on the wrong side (like yesterday!) then I''m sure we''ll do ok. CH deserves our whole hearted backing whilst not being immune to constructive criticism when required.       

  11. Yellow Rider

    Snoddy & formation

    [quote user="Robert Parsons"]I thought Snodgrass had a real nightmare debut. He looked slow, hesitant and uncomfortable in a wide right position. This meant that Martin was constantly exposed. Pilkington was not a lot better and Tierney faced the same defensive problems. I was amazed that Snodgrass did not play in a more advanced central position and this left Holt completely isolated chasing shadows. Bennett looked much more influential on the right once he came on. If he watched all the recordings of last seasons games CH must know that Holt cannot play up front alone and I certainly hope that there is a Plan B other than the Morro and Holt pairing with long balls knocked in that we had early in the 2nd half today. A really poor performance today. I just hope that important lessons have been learned early. RP[/quote]

    Points above are quite right.

    To jump on CH''s back after just one result (albeit dire performance for 70 mins.) is stupidity - look back at the posts when CH was appointed. It was universally applauded  by 99% of fans. Those criticising him now should take a long hard look in the mirror! 

    Having said that, though, the manager MUST do two things:

    1. We do NOT have the players to play 4-5-1, 4-4-1-1 or any other kind of fancy (sorry, ''flexible'' system). Holt or Morro as the single striker is doomed to failure. We need two up front to stand any chance of causing defenders problems. That was proved time and time last season. For other systems to work you need at least two ''midfielders'' who you absolutely KNOW will get you 10 goals + (minimum). We do not have them - simple.

    2. Snodgrass is a LEFT footed player so why the hell is he wide right!! Same goes for Pilkington who is esentially RIGHT footed but plays left side! Yes, by playing them on the other flank they can cut in and get the ball on their ''favoured'' foot but this at the expense of losing natural width and losing the ability to go down the outside of the full back, getting to the byeline and whipping in traditional, quality crosses that forwards love and defenders hate Its'' simple -''square pegs in square holes''!

    Address these two items and you''ll see a different team with more pace, natural width and two strikers with crosses to feed off.   

  12. Yellow Rider

    Another goalie?

    I certainly have mixed views on this.

    Sure - the boys need first team experience to harden and sharpen them up but the flip side of that is do we honestly want to be spending £1/2M + on someone who has ....''a long standing hip injury''??. No idea whether the reported fee is accurate of course but it could certainly be better spent I''m sure.

    My mind goes back to 2004-2005 when Worthy was obsessed with various aspects of the Premier League as he prepared for it that summer. Suddenly, never having had three first team keepers before we went out and signed two as back up to Green. The third was Ward who we splashed out £600k on. Neither he nor Gallagher played a single PL match for us that season so the money on the third keeper was a waste -  pure and simple.

    Our priority remains as I''ve said for some months now - another decent striker. Ther are serious question marks against three of the five current incumbents so if we end the transfer window with only Holt and Morrison then I fear a long, barren spell for the goals scored column.     

  13. Yellow Rider

    Outgoing player to Sunderland!!!

    [quote user="thegovernor1"]just a heads up, a player from our club will be heading to Sunderland I believe it will be Wes Hoolahan. I''m sure I will get slated and someone will want to know the source but I cannot divulge on that info.

    The person is pretty reliable too.

    Many thanks[/quote]

    Not sure Wes is a Martin O''Neill type player so hopefully this rumour is untrue. Every player has his day though but I would be seriously jarred off if he was sold - the boy is one of the finest ever to pull on canary yellow. We''ve seen it before, fact is that when Wes is injured or left out we often look a shadow in terms of spark and creativity. If he is sold I fear we could regret that piece of business big style!. 

  14. Yellow Rider

    I would be "gutted"...

    [quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Mr Brownstone"]

    We have 2 senior RB''s in Martin and Whittaker, and we also have Georgie Francomb coming through. I don''t know what sort of figure the Mail are quoting (they''ve probably made it up anyway) but I''d guess it will be £4m+ and frankly it would be mental to spend that (which would be a club record transfer) on a position we already have covered.

    [/quote]Martin wasn''t very good at right-back last season, but was a lot better as a central defender. Whittaker isn''t even renown for great defending in the SPL. Framcombe has very little experience of first-team football even in Leagues 1 & 2.[/quote]

    But didn''t every player who has ever played the game start off like Francomb, i.e. with absolutely zero experience? NCFC have''nt brought through one of our own youth players to become an established first teamer (certainly at this level) since Shackell and Green. We have to get away from this short sighted policy of spend, spend, spend.

  15. Yellow Rider

    Hughton "not looking for new forward"

    [quote user="Row D Seat 7"]This season is so so vital. We all know that. I''m confident we can stay up and think that if we bought a decent striker it would just give us more potency in front of goal. Right now I feel like we just have an average looking front line.

    Holt isn''t going to score 15 goals again.

    Morison only performed for half the season last year so that doesn''t fill me with confidence.

    Jackson has frightening pace but massively lacks quality at Prem level.

    Vaughan is too injury prone to rely on.

    Chris Martin isn''t good enough.[/quote]

    Totally agree with this assessment - a quality striker (''quality'' at our level mind, we''re not talking about £30M on a Champions League level). The midfield looks good, potentially very good in fact. Up front is weak though on any objective analysis.

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