Gunn has driven last two nails in our coffin...

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

I want Gunn and his coaching team to suceed here as much as anymore, and although the VAST majority of the blame for this season''s debacle must lay with the idiot we had in charge previously, I''m afraid Gunn has made two serious errors in the last two weeks -which I''m afraid will seal our relegation.

  It wasn''t met with the outrage it should have been at the time but recalling Cureton in favour of letting Lupoli go is looking increasingly ridiculous, Cureton''s legs have gone , they had before he went to Barnsley, Lupoli was the only striker we had on the books with any pace-and despite what anyone says appeared to want to play for us. Doesn''t anyone find it odd that the team fourth from bottom didn''t want him -but the team fourth from top did??, Now that Cort looks to be finding his legs, a Cort-Lupoli partnership had the makings of looking good - now we''ll never know.

Secondly I''m afraid the re-signing of Shackell will probably seal our fate. One of the few things Roeder did right was correctly identiying that the Doherty-Shackell partnership wasn''t good enough and needed to be broken up. To start off the season with the relative bliss of Stefanovic and Kennedy to six months later going back to Doherty-Shackell has almost brought me to tears. I don''t know how close we were to signing either Purse or Davies and whose fault it is that neither happened - but for christsake there are other defenders in the world other than Shackell (couldn''t we have gone back for Kennedy-has he had his operation?).

Let''s just hope there really are three worse sides in this league than us- ''cos thats the only way we''re staying up - again.

 

[WeAreYellows49 0]

I think it''s only fair to say that the problems go way back before even Lupps and that idiot Roeders decisions.  If you are going to blame Gunn, then you have to blame the players and the board too.

The problems at our club cannot be pinned on one person, it''s a whole host of people and goes back further than one season.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

I think it''s only fair to say that the problems go way back before even Lupps and that idiot Roeders decisions.  If you are going to blame Gunn, then you have to blame the players and the board too.

The problems at our club cannot be pinned on one person, it''s a whole host of people and goes back further than one season.

[/quote]

Hexactly!

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

I think it''s only fair to say that the problems go way back before even Lupps and that idiot Roeders decisions.  If you are going to blame Gunn, then you have to blame the players and the board too.

The problems at our club cannot be pinned on one person, it''s a whole host of people and goes back further than one season.

[/quote]

Hexactly!

[/quote]

It''s all too easy to blame Gunny ATM, people need to see the much wider picture. [:)]

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

I think it''s only fair to say that the problems go way back before even Lupps and that idiot Roeders decisions.  If you are going to blame Gunn, then you have to blame the players and the board too.

The problems at our club cannot be pinned on one person, it''s a whole host of people and goes back further than one season.

[/quote]

Hexactly!

[/quote]

It''s all too easy to blame Gunny ATM, people need to see the much wider picture. [:)]

[/quote]

I will reiterate again that I''m not blaming Gunn for the position he took us over in, but he is the manager, he is making decisions over transfers, and he will at the end of the season have had 20 games in charge, My original point is that he has not helped our cause with these two decisons -he''s merely compounded our situation.

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

I think it''s only fair to say that the problems go way back before even Lupps and that idiot Roeders decisions.  If you are going to blame Gunn, then you have to blame the players and the board too.

The problems at our club cannot be pinned on one person, it''s a whole host of people and goes back further than one season.

[/quote]

Hexactly!

[/quote]

It''s all too easy to blame Gunny ATM, people need to see the much wider picture. [:)]

[/quote]

I will reiterate again that I''m not blaming Gunn for the position he took us over in, but he is the manager, he is making decisions over transfers, and he will at the end of the season have had 20 games in charge, My original point is that he has not helped our cause with these two decisons -he''s merely compounded our situation.

[/quote]

So are you then blaming him for the position we now find ourselves in?

I think even if Alex Ferguson were in charge the position would not be a lot different.  A workman is only as good as the tools he has to work with.

There''s a much wider picture here.

[First Wizard 0]

The 4-1 win over Barnsley will kill us, did Gunn get the job on the back of that one result?...........I think he did.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

I think it''s only fair to say that the problems go way back before even Lupps and that idiot Roeders decisions.  If you are going to blame Gunn, then you have to blame the players and the board too.

The problems at our club cannot be pinned on one person, it''s a whole host of people and goes back further than one season.

[/quote]

Hexactly!

[/quote]

It''s all too easy to blame Gunny ATM, people need to see the much wider picture. [:)]

[/quote]

I will reiterate again that I''m not blaming Gunn for the position he took us over in, but he is the manager, he is making decisions over transfers, and he will at the end of the season have had 20 games in charge, My original point is that he has not helped our cause with these two decisons -he''s merely compounded our situation.

[/quote]

So are you then blaming him for the position we now find ourselves in?

I think even if Alex Ferguson were in charge the position would not be a lot different.  A workman is only as good as the tools he has to work with.

There''s a much wider picture here.

[/quote]

Your''e right of course, but the tools that Gunn chose to work with was Cureton instaed of Lupoli.

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

I think it''s only fair to say that the problems go way back before even Lupps and that idiot Roeders decisions.  If you are going to blame Gunn, then you have to blame the players and the board too.

The problems at our club cannot be pinned on one person, it''s a whole host of people and goes back further than one season.

[/quote]

Hexactly!

[/quote]

It''s all too easy to blame Gunny ATM, people need to see the much wider picture. [:)]

[/quote]

I will reiterate again that I''m not blaming Gunn for the position he took us over in, but he is the manager, he is making decisions over transfers, and he will at the end of the season have had 20 games in charge, My original point is that he has not helped our cause with these two decisons -he''s merely compounded our situation.

[/quote]

So are you then blaming him for the position we now find ourselves in?

I think even if Alex Ferguson were in charge the position would not be a lot different.  A workman is only as good as the tools he has to work with.

There''s a much wider picture here.

[/quote]

Your''e right of course, but the tools that Gunn chose to work with was Cureton instaed of Lupoli.

[/quote]

I agree Lupps shouldn''t have gone, but if he didn''t want to leave he would still be at NCFC, that''s really the way it is.  Cureton, good or bad is our asset, one of the very few dwindling numbers we have.

Money talks i''m afraid, and we don''t have much if any.

I wish people would see that there are beautiful colours out there and the world isn''t so black and white.  [:D]

What are we mere fans to do?

[Draven 0]

if you blame Gunn then you really are a complete prick!!! Your problems lay at the feet of those IN CHARGE!!!

Grow up and support the boys and if you don''t want to then go support the tractor boys!! Norwich City''s problem stem back from years you idiot!!

[Syteanric 1]

the appointment of the management team was a final, desperate, roll of the dice by the board.. had it of worked, then they would of been on cloud 9.. city legends taking us up the league, the fans on song, things looking good for next season... they would of bought of themselves more time..

however, its looking increasingly likely its a gamble that hasn''t paid off, the directors took a risk on a managerial team they thought would do it... but apart from Deehan, none of them have any long term managerial experience between them. they are all nice guys and i wont have bad said of any of them, but it isnt working,  we needed a manager who know what it takes to survive. an experienced manager who knows football inside out.. not club heroes and a prayer to god....

times run out now....

jas :)

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]we needed a manager who know what it takes to survive. an experienced manager who knows football inside out.. not club heroes and a prayer to god....

times run out now....

jas :)

[/quote]Jas,Did you mean to describe Glenn Roeder?The fact is that all the qualities you state you wanted in our managerial appointment were those that the previous incumbent actually had. Something that was demonstrated by him keeping us up last season.It doesn''t matter if you''re Arsene Wenger, or some random fan off the streets, you can''t polish a turd, and unfortunately there were/are too many turds here who regularly fail to impose themselves on a game, so what do you want the guy in charge to do?We''ve tried the hard line routine under Roeder - it was a dismal failure, with steadily declining performances from even half decent players, so we''ve gone to the opposite side with Gunn and his ''arm round the shoulder'' approach.The point being that regardless of who was appointed, we really needed to massively freshen up the side and bring in at least half a dozen players of a good CCC level (or better) on permanent deals, the problem is that the funds are either not there to do it, or the board are unwilling to commit them at this/any point. ANY manager who took over would be limited by the finances available, and the existing squad, something we are sadly lacking in both areas, if you ask me, we could have appointed Mourinho and we''d still not be in a much stronger position because of the limitations he''d be under. So I don''t see the Gunn appointment as a gamble as such, in fact he''s arguably one of the best choices we could have made in regards to looking to get the best out of players and instill self-confidence.Was the release of Lupoli and return of Cureton a good move? Probably not, but the truth about Lupoli''s lack of selection seems all hidden by cloak and dagger techniques with rumours from lack of commitment to dressing room arguments etc all being bandied around. As for Shax''s return, the point here is really about a lack of alternatives, we wanted Purse as first choice - Cardiff blocked the move, we then wanted Davies and that got caught in nonsensical red-tape and other delays which stopped that happening. It''s not like Shackell was our first choice, but the fact is that he''s a decent enough defender at this level and I find it amusing that when they played together previous seasons, the emphasis was put on Doherty for being the issue, but when he has a few decent games this season, suddenly it was all Shackell''s fault.I still think Gunn and co CAN turn things around, and still think it was a good appointment based on our limited resources, we just really need to get some more steel through the side and keep Cureton off the pitch...

[ThePetty 0]

Hi another newie here. I read every day - my boss still hasnt caught me. And before anybody asks I do not go by the guise of any other names.

Living away from Norwich I dont get to see many home games, I am one of them poor souls who go to plenty of away games (not Preston today however). I had already treated my wife to Preston away a couple of seasons ago for an anniversary present - didnt chance Valentines as well.

In January 2008 we knew we needed a permenant goal scorer, and someone with height. In January 2008 we knew we needed a new defence. Did we get them then - Nope. Did we get them in the summer - Nope. Gunn has been left with the bare minimums - leave him alone.

Lupoli had lost confidence and faith in Norwich even before Gunn was appointed. I saw him at Doncaster and Cureton wanted it more than him. If you cant run around in the last 5 mins for 5 mins then what chance is there.

Yes Shacks was a panic loan . But with a red card looming we had alot to panic about.

We still do. But this downfall hasnt been short term. Its been on the cards for a few seasons. There isnt an answer we just have to grimace and go through what are the hard times.

 

 

[......and Smith must score. 1,596]

[quote user="ThePetty"]

......... I had already treated my wife to Preston away a couple of seasons ago for an anniversary present ...........

[/quote]

Still married ?

[ThePetty 0]

ThePetty wrote:

......... I had already treated my wife to Preston away a couple of seasons ago for an anniversary present ...........

Still married ?

 

Its the love that does it..... hence why we all still support Norwich, maybe we should ask her how to keep the faith

[Chunky Canary 0]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

I think it''s only fair to say that the problems go way back before even Lupps and that idiot Roeders decisions.  If you are going to blame Gunn, then you have to blame the players and the board too.

The problems at our club cannot be pinned on one person, it''s a whole host of people and goes back further than one season.

[/quote]

Hexactly!

[/quote]

It''s all too easy to blame Gunny ATM, people need to see the much wider picture. [:)]

[/quote]

I will reiterate again that I''m not blaming Gunn for the position he took us over in, but he is the manager, he is making decisions over transfers, and he will at the end of the season have had 20 games in charge, My original point is that he has not helped our cause with these two decisons -he''s merely compounded our situation.

[/quote]

So are you then blaming him for the position we now find ourselves in?

I think even if Alex Ferguson were in charge the position would not be a lot different.  A workman is only as good as the tools he has to work with.

There''s a much wider picture here.

[/quote]

I agree with a lot of what you say Yellows but did not Gunn supply some of those tools himself? Was he not something to do with player recruitment under Roeder? And what about the latest bunch of players he’s picked up in the last transfer and loans windows.

[No Quarter 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]The 4-1 win over Barnsley will kill us, did Gunn get the job on the back of that one result?...........I think he did.[/quote]

 

Mmmm, yeah.....cos if we''d lost that, then we would definately of had Morinho in charge........

[Erik the Viking 0]

[quote user="No Quarter"]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]The 4-1 win over Barnsley will kill us, did Gunn get the job on the back of that one result?...........I think he did.[/quote]

 

Mmmm, yeah.....cos if we''d lost that, then we would definately of had Morinho in charge........

[/quote]

Lets face it though the guy should not be in the position full stop. Yeah I know he is a legend and we all love him etc but he is not a football manager and should never been appointed due to his lack of experience at what is a crucial time for the club. He will continue to make mistakes and who can blame him, we should have learnt from the "nice Peter Grant" debacle but this board never learns!

Forest appointed Billy Davies a proven championship manager and they have pulled away and will continue to do so, Boothroyd/Ince/ etc etc were linked and I would have loved Martinez from Swansea but the boards choice again reflects their ambition - zilch and lack of investment!

[alex_ncfc 686]

[quote user="Gazza"][quote user="No Quarter"]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]The 4-1 win over Barnsley will kill us, did Gunn get the job on the back of that one result?...........I think he did.[/quote]

 

Mmmm, yeah.....cos if we''d lost that, then we would definately of had Morinho in charge........

[/quote]

Lets face it though the guy should not be in the position full stop. Yeah I know he is a legend and we all love him etc but he is not a football manager and should never been appointed due to his lack of experience at what is a crucial time for the club. He will continue to make mistakes and who can blame him, we should have learnt from the "nice Peter Grant" debacle but this board never learns!

Forest appointed Billy Davies a proven championship manager and they have pulled away and will continue to do so, Boothroyd/Ince/ etc etc were linked and I would have loved Martinez from Swansea but the boards choice again reflects their ambition - zilch and lack of investment!

[/quote]

This is exactly it. Bryan Gunn isn''t and NEVER WILL be a football manager, full stop. He hasn''t got the basic requirements and he seems so out of touch with the modern game. His post-match interviews are quite frankly, embarrassing, listening to a man trying his hardest to sound like he knows what he is talking about. If I was Gunny I would resign now, he is a legend at this club but he is going to take us down to League One.

[OTBC11 0]

Great post but do you really think there are three teams out there worse than us? Charlton/Southampton maybe but who else?

League One beckons...

 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

[quote user="Draven"]

if you blame Gunn then you really are a complete prick!!! Your problems lay at the feet of those IN CHARGE!!!

Grow up and support the boys and if you don''t want to then go support the tractor boys!! Norwich City''s problem stem back from years you idiot!!

[/quote]

With 20 games in  charge, actually Gunn has to be in some way culpable for what happens for the remainder of the season, If you can''t see that ,then it is you that should surely grow up !!??!

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="Gazza"]Forest appointed Billy Davies a proven championship manager and they have pulled away and will continue to do so, Boothroyd/Ince/ etc etc were linked and I would have loved Martinez from Swansea but the boards choice again reflects their ambition - zilch and lack of investment![/quote]And we sacked a manager who''s done better than Davies previously, not to mention that Davies was in charge of the worst Premiership side I''ve ever seen, before realising he was about to be sacked and walking instead...He''s doing well at Forest so far, but let me also ask you, would you rather have their squad or ours?

[Mister Chops 7]

Bryan Gunn, Bryan GunnBryan Bryan Gunn,He did his best, but failed the test,Now we''re in league one.

[Jimbo_Jet_Set 0]

Some good points made in this thread.  For what its worth I feel desperately sorry for Bryan Gunn. He''s been tossed in to a situation not of his own making and asked to perform some kind of miracle.  It is often said on this message board when people talk about giving the youth players a chance that you don''t throw inexperienced youngsters in to the middle of a tough relegation battle.  Yet this is exactly what we have done with Gunn.  Yes he gives his all but the pressure is too much and his lack of experience is showing through.

The whole Gunn episode is just another mystifyingly inept decision by the board.  The latest in a long line of bad moves that began with not buying a striker at the start of the premiership season.  I''ve said it before and i''ll say it again. What this club lacks and has lacked for some time is a sense of long term direction and purpose. There seems to be no plan of action aimed towards building a competitive team.  Instead what we fans get is series of panicky short term measures that serve to undermine any stability at the club.  The constant emphasis on loaning players is a case in point.  The current crisis is just the inevitable consequence of a whole series of bad decisions.  If and when we do get relegated i see no certainty of us returning quickly because we haven''t got the structures in place to cope with it.

[JohnoBono 0]

The second coming of Jason Shackell could well end up being apocalyptic for Norwich City. It was a massive leap backwards for me. The Doherty Shackell defensive partnership is a combination that is proven not to work. To reunite it now in the middle of a relegation battle, at what is possibly to be one of the most crucial fights in the clubs history, is I believe a gamble that dices with the future of the club.

Even Glenn Roeder as much as it pains me to say it could see that it was a defensive combination that did not work. The only time either Doherty or Shackell were effective last season was when one of them were pared with Dion Dublin. For some reason Peter Grant saw Shackell as a captain, which he clearly was not, and his confidence took a nose dive as a result. We badly need another central defender, preferably a decent experienced one to come in and play along side one or the other.

To get out of this mess we need defensive stability and clinicalness in front of goal. So far it does not seem that this has been fully addressed. Also we need that creative spark that is going to create goals, and goal scoring chances. It''s early days with Gow and Carney to see if they are the answer, but we are running out of time and games to find out. We really do not have time in reality to allow for players to bed in, but that is what they are having to do. On top of that we are having to relie on players, at this late stage in the season who through lack of games, are not yet up to match speed.  

I think if anything, at thismoment in time, we are being found out big time for our over reliance on the loan system. Don''t blame Gunn. Yes I feel that the return of Shackell has despartion written all over it. The damage was done by the previous manager(s). But Gunn has dug himself something of a hole by bringing Shackell back, and choosing to relie Cureton for Goals.      

[Mello Yello 2,572]

....and it is the board who will see us buried or cremated.

[JohnoBono 0]

Meant to add...

I agreed with the sending back of Omosuzi, but I feel that the defence  seems weaker at the the moment. There is no real right back cover. For me no area of the defense seems quite right, and there is no real leader or organiser, a player with respect or authority back there. We are supect at full back at either side and have a soft centre. Individual players are decent but collectively they just don''t seem to gell or appear to be on the same wave-length.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Lupoli was not given a fair chance atc Norwich. He was our most capable striker so letting him go in our current predicament wasn''t a good move though I''m sure Lupolis problems with Norwich started long before Gunn became manager!

 

Purse didn''t want to come to the club so that was our best option gone!

 

Davies from Stoke has hardly played this season so their was more chance of him being another Grounds, Omorzusi, Sibierski (get my drift?) than a decent addition to the squad!

 

Therefore bringing back Shacks was our best option. He was nowhere near as bad as what some Norwich fans make him out to be. Hes a good honest stopper who''ll be fully commited to the cause and will fight till the death. We only sold him cause we got offered silly money for him. Slagging Shackell has been a common over the top thing that ''sheep'' with no opinion of their own have latched onto just like with the Doc in the past and Fotheringham whos not as bad as hes made out to be!

 

Therefore the truth is Yes we made a mistake with Lupoli but certainly not with bringing Shacks back, but to say Gunnys been at fault is going to far cause I suspect Lupoli would of been on his way regardless of who was in charge?

 

 

[Nexus_Canary 1,206]

Seriously though ? Were you expecting anything less ?? No disrespect to Gunn, i was in favour of him managing the club an i still am.I think saying Gunn has put the nail in the coffin is very unfair.Gunn inherited a ship with so many holes in that his message was pretty much"Ok Gunny, here is a ship with a load of holes and its sinking. Now if you get her back to land, Good on ya. BUT if she sinks then its not your fault that the moron before you hit a reef "Did any of us ( board or fans ) think that Gunn would ride in on his white horse and win every game  ?NOIf you did then i suggest you brew yourself a cup of reality and drink deep.Gunn is inexperienced in management but NOT inexperienced in football or  Norwich City.I feel the biggest Gunn issue will be post season.Do we keep him on as gaffer or appoint someone else ?Also i dont think the blame can lie purely with Gunn. I belive with the exception of Lee Clark we have the finest "management / coaching" set up the club has had in the last 10 years.What we also have is the WORST squad we have had in the last 10 years.The credit crunch really isnt going to help us get more permanent players in. I was watching on my local news the other day that Glen Hoddle''s acadamy squad was in town playing vs Saints reserves.For any that dont know Hoddle gets premiership players in their late teens early 20''s who have been released and gives them a second chance to be signed to a professional club. Why dont we tap into these sorts of resources and get ourselves a few decent free transfers ? Id rather get 2 or 3 of these than yet another journeyman. At least these guys will want to play and give it their all rather than figure. "im on 5k a week and after we get relegated i can just go back to sitting on the bench at XXXX premiership club"

[Erik the Viking 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Gazza"]Forest appointed Billy Davies a proven championship manager and they have pulled away and will continue to do so, Boothroyd/Ince/ etc etc were linked and I would have loved Martinez from Swansea but the boards choice again reflects their ambition - zilch and lack of investment![/quote]And we sacked a manager who''s done better than Davies previously, not to mention that Davies was in charge of the worst Premiership side I''ve ever seen, before realising he was about to be sacked and walking instead...

He''s doing well at Forest so far, but let me also ask you, would you rather have their squad or ours?
[/quote]

Where did i mention premiership Indy?!?!. Granted he failed at Derby in the Prem but was hardly backed financially but my point is he has a proven track record in the Championship at Preston/Derby and now Forest and we appointed a NCFC legend with no managerial experience!.

As regards whose squad would I rather have, ours marginally but yet again that proves the point that with a proven manager we would have had a far better chance of avoiding the drop IMO...

I agree with other posters that th decision to bring Shackell back to the club is a joke as him and Doc has never been anything other than a disaster, twin that with letting our top scorer(other than Lita) go is two poor decisions and shows Gunn for the novice he is......

Top bloke though