Bryan Gunn and John Deehan

[Mister Chops 7]

No, not the new management team.  A lesson to learn.When Walker left for Everton, frustrated by a lack of spending power from the board, we appointed a former Canary legend in John Deehan.  IIRC, he won his first game quite handsomely too.And then one more game all season as we dropped to twelfth place.  As the opening line from this page says, "Will John Deehan be remembered as one of Norwich''s great goalscorers

or as the manager that presided over the rapid decline of Norwich''s

fortunes that dropped them into Division One with as yet no return

to the Premiership ?"So - lack of funds - checkformer legend interested in the job - checkwins first game convincingly - checklong-term potential for disaster - checkWe should learn from this and not appoint Gunny, how ever much he wants the job.  Or we could be reading"Will Bryan Gunn be remembered as one of Norwich''s great goalkeepers

or as the manager that presided over the rapid decline of Norwich''s

fortunes that dropped them into League One with as yet no return

to the Championship ?"http://www.ex-canaries.co.uk/players/deehan.htmThis is no time for a novice, gentlemen.

[alex_ncfc 686]

Completely agree, 100% well said. I''ve always thought it is a shame that John''s reputation has been tarnished through no fault of his own - he just wasn''t good enough for the job, although I still think Gunny''s injury played a massive part, but we still rapidly dropped from being title/Euro contenders to being draw specialists during Deehan''s time in charge - and that was with Gunn in the team.

We need someone who knows how to manage, people. And I hope to f**k that our management decision is not based on a bloody internet community website.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]No, not the new management team.  A lesson to learn.

When Walker left for Everton, frustrated by a lack of spending power from the board, we appointed a former Canary legend in John Deehan.  IIRC, he won his first game quite handsomely too.

And then one more game all season as we dropped to twelfth place. 

As the opening line from this page says, "Will John Deehan be remembered as one of Norwich''s great goalscorers or as the manager that presided over the rapid decline of Norwich''s fortunes that dropped them into Division One with as yet no return to the Premiership ?"

So -
lack of funds - check
former legend interested in the job - check
wins first game convincingly - check
long-term potential for disaster - check

We should learn from this and not appoint Gunny, how ever much he wants the job.  Or we could be reading

"Will Bryan Gunn be remembered as one of Norwich''s great goalkeepers or as the manager that presided over the rapid decline of Norwich''s fortunes that dropped them into League One with as yet no return to the Championship ?"

http://www.ex-canaries.co.uk/players/deehan.htm

This is no time for a novice, gentlemen.

[/quote]

same can be said of Gary Megson... a better defensive midfieldr that played for us through the 90''s..... awful manager though... had he never of managed us we''d be remembering Meggo for the player he was.. a decent pro and one of the reasons we got into europe... not as the plonker that managed us.

jas :)

[Herb 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

had he never of managed us we''d be remembering Meggo for the player he was.. a decent pro and one of the reasons we got into europe... not as the plonker that managed us.

jas :)

[/quote]I do remember him for the player he was. A distinctly average hoofer and up there as one of the dirtiest players to ever wear the yellow shirt. His management style (or lack of) shouldn''t have come as a suprise.To compare his playing career with City to Gunny''s is an insult to the big man.

[lucky green trainers 0]

when gunny got injured against notts forest - i think we were 6th...a young andy marshall came in as his replacement and the the rest is history...imo - thats the lesson - an inexperienced manager is more likely to make poor judgments calls - surely we should have got better cover in for gunny than a rookie keeper???  and lets face it - a rookie manager is more likely to be under the cosh of the clubs owners than a manager who''s been around the block...

[JJ 0]

[quote user="Herb"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

had he never of managed us we''d be remembering Meggo for the player he was.. a decent pro and one of the reasons we got into europe... not as the plonker that managed us.

jas :)

[/quote]

I do remember him for the player he was. A distinctly average hoofer and up there as one of the dirtiest players to ever wear the yellow shirt. His management style (or lack of) shouldn''t have come as a suprise.
To compare his playing career with City to Gunny''s is an insult to the big man.
[/quote]

 

Bit harsh.  Thought ''General'' Megson produced some terrific displays when he was with us.  Was an absolute powerhouse in the season we came 3rd and was superb in Europe against Vitesse at home, and Inter away

He was awful as manager though, but even he admits now that he made mistakes and that circumstances behind the scenes didn''t help.  Not done too badly for himself since then.

 

[alex_ncfc 686]

[quote user="JJ"][quote user="Herb"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

had he never of managed us we''d be remembering Meggo for the player he was.. a decent pro and one of the reasons we got into europe... not as the plonker that managed us.

jas :)

[/quote]

I do remember him for the player he was. A distinctly average hoofer and up there as one of the dirtiest players to ever wear the yellow shirt. His management style (or lack of) shouldn''t have come as a suprise.
To compare his playing career with City to Gunny''s is an insult to the big man.
[/quote]

 

Bit harsh.  Thought ''General'' Megson produced some terrific displays when he was with us.  Was an absolute powerhouse in the season we came 3rd and was superb in Europe against Vitesse at home, and Inter away

He was awful as manager though, but even he admits now that he made mistakes and that circumstances behind the scenes didn''t help.  Not done too badly for himself since then.

 

[/quote]

Agreed. He has consistently managed to get to the Premiership and now he looks like he''s got a team who he will keep there. he was even headhunted by Bolton when he took the Leicester job so he can''t be doing too badly.

[John Boubepo 0]

lack of funds - checkThe same would apply to any manager former legend interested in the job checkLike Dave Stringer? wins first game convincingly - checkWould you rather he lost it? long-term potential for disaster - checkNever mind long term disaster our club is already a disaster!

We should learn from this and not appoint Gunny, how ever much he wants the jobWe should learn from the Roeder experience and not appoint another arrogant upstart with zero man-managent skills like Ince

[Joanna Grey 0]

I don''t care about this thread but just had to say that I am PMSLing at Mister Chops avatar - bandwagoner!

[alex_ncfc 686]

[quote user="John Boubepo"]lack of funds - check
The same would apply to any manager
former legend interested in the job check
Like Dave Stringer?
wins first game convincingly - check
Would you rather he lost it?
long-term potential for disaster - check
Never mind long term disaster our club is already a disaster!


We should learn from this and not appoint Gunny, how ever much he wants the job
We should learn from the Roeder experience and not appoint another arrogant upstart with zero man-managent skills like Ince
[/quote]

Who''s to say Gunn has ANY man management skills? He had been in charge of the team for one day when we won 4-0 on Saturday. One day! Are you telling me he could have made his mark on the team in that time? If so, get him in because he must be the best manager in the world.

Realistically speaking, the players put out a good performance for one reason alone, because Roeder was no longer there for them to not play for. Gunn might appear to have man management skills. I wonder how we would do when the pressure is on (there was zero pressure on Saturday) and when he has wantaway players?

[bringbackchippy 53]

john deehan is a fair shout, is he one of the 4 legends that l posted? hmm l wonder!!

[Binky 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]No, not the new management team.  A lesson to learn.When Walker left for Everton, frustrated by a lack of spending power from the board, we appointed a former Canary legend in John Deehan.  IIRC, he won his first game quite handsomely too.And then one more game all season as we dropped to twelfth place.  As the opening line from this page says, "Will John Deehan be remembered as one of Norwich''s great goalscorers

or as the manager that presided over the rapid decline of Norwich''s

fortunes that dropped them into Division One with as yet no return

to the Premiership ?"So - lack of funds - checkformer legend interested in the job - checkwins first game convincingly - checklong-term potential for disaster - checkWe should learn from this and not appoint Gunny, how ever much he wants the job.  Or we could be reading"Will Bryan Gunn be remembered as one of Norwich''s great goalkeepers

or as the manager that presided over the rapid decline of Norwich''s

fortunes that dropped them into League One with as yet no return

to the Championship ?"http://www.ex-canaries.co.uk/players/deehan.htmThis is no time for a novice, gentlemen.[/quote]If experience could guarantee more wins I might accept this argument Mr C - but as GR has proved, there is more to management than experience. Some tactical nous is essential; but I do believe this squad (with a new striker and CB) is otherwise good enough to climb well clear of the bottom three. But the wrong personality whacked onto them could carry on the decline. I do not support Gunn because of the Barnsley match - check my posts and you will see I was always confident we would win. But Gunn clearly didn''t do touch much wrong on the motivational side. He may not even be the right manager long term. But I am sure he could get this squad into the safety zone come the end of the season. In his case the metaphor "a safe pair of hands" comes to mind. The players will give their all for him. I am not sure I can feel the same about Ince - despite him being "experienced".

[Louis 0]

Both Deehan and Megson were unlucky with the circumstances in which they took over. When Walker left, the wheels started to come off and by the time Megson became manager we were in freefall. I agree that Gunn shouldn''t get the job, but I''m confident that it won''t happen anyway.

Oh, and Megson really was a hell of a player for us. People don''t remember just what a difference he made to the team during the best 18 months in the club''s history. We hadn''t had a midfield tiger like him for ages, and didn''t have another one until Gary Holt''s superb 2001-02 season.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

I felt for Deehan we actually played some decent stuff under him but he was totally rear ended by Robert Chase after a decent start in his full season as manager after losing the huge impact of Chris Sutton that summer we were right up there looking good for europe again at christmas but he wasnt allowed funds to replace the huge influence of Gunn when he got injured and he was told that if he agreed to sell Sheron he would be given the funds for a badly needed new striker, something Chase went back on, the relegation was as much Chases fault as Deehans. He was also a great coach and for me was a big part of the Walker success. If anything he was then alot more qaulified to be a manager than Gunn is now.

[No Quarter 0]

Okaaaaay, but lets also not forget that Gunny and Deehan are also two different human beings.  Deehan was the coach and stepped up for Walker.  Who wouldnt.  Gunny would be taking the job with his eyes wide open.  He knows the pit falls of management.  What the hell does the fact they are both "former city legends" count for.   You can''t put them in a big box marked "could never manage".  It''s like comparing Gazza and Gary Lineker.  Two very different personalities.

[Harleston Canary 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]No, not the new management team.  A lesson to learn.

As the opening line from this page says, "Will John Deehan be remembered as one of Norwich''s great goalscorers or as the manager that presided over the rapid decline of Norwich''s fortunes that dropped them into Division One with as yet no return to the Premiership ?"


[/quote]

As you can see from my Avatar, I hope it''s the former and not the latter...An insightful post and one whose warnings a few in the boardroom could do with listening to.

At the risk of repeating myself,I maintain that we would have seen a similar performance on Saturday with anyone but Roeder in charge - the players were literally set free to do what they do best.

[gazzathegreat 0]

Spot on there Yellow Beagle. A former hero (if you are old enough!) whose reputation was tarnished by his time as manager here.

The repeat of such I wouldn''t wish on Bryan Gunn. I can fully understand the wish and emotions wanting a true Norwich man to take over, but wonder what Bryan would count on to pull us through if the relegation fight got dirtier and tougher. Would he find new players before the end of January? Would he stand up to the board in the future? Has he the necessary man management skills?

From the board''s perspective does Bryan fit the bill, probably yes, already on the payroll, therefore a cheap option, he''s got the fans on his side (eases season ticket renewal worries) and had an empathic win on Saturday. IF things go pear shaped the board probably wouldn''t expect fans enmasse to turn on a former hero. But they do risk the tables and spotlight falling on them if they appoint him and we are relegated. Do they really want to risk that?

But if things really do go to the wall I think we need some experience. No one as distant from human life and as caustic as Roeder certainly (if such a person exists) but not a job for a novice. Bryan Gunn has been a great servant to the club and is a truly warm and lovely person, but I just don''t want to see him, his family and his reputation tarnished in any way.

[John Boubepo 0]

[quote user="alex_ncfc"]

[quote user="John Boubepo"]lack of funds - checkThe same would apply to any manager former legend interested in the job checkLike Dave Stringer? wins first game convincingly - checkWould you rather he lost it? long-term potential for disaster - checkNever mind long term disaster our club is already a disaster!

We should learn from this and not appoint Gunny, how ever much he wants the jobWe should learn from the Roeder experience and not appoint another arrogant upstart with zero man-managent skills like Ince [/quote]

Who''s to say Gunn has ANY man management skills? He had been in charge of the team for one day when we won 4-0 on Saturday. One day! Are you telling me he could have made his mark on the team in that time? If so, get him in because he must be the best manager in the world.

Realistically speaking, the players put out a good performance for one reason alone, because Roeder was no longer there for them to not play for. Gunn might appear to have man management skills. I wonder how we would do when the pressure is on (there was zero pressure on Saturday) and when he has wantaway players?

[/quote]The main quality for man-management is having the ability to gain

respect and hold onto that respect. Gunny has been at the club for 22

yrs, and is already respected by the players, the board, almost every

Norwich supporter, the city of Norwich, even the opposition respect

him, add to that the medical/charity world, even Sir Alex feckin

Ferguson! so why even suggest he left that mark over 90mins?!!

[norfolkbroadslim 225]

[IMG]http://cms.442.haymarketnetwork.com/contentimages/blog/Gunn.jpg[/IMG]

[sturgeon220 0]

  All managers were inexperienced once.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

John Deehan was a Canaries legend who didn''t cut it as a manager although back in late 1987 Ken Brown was given the push and club legend and loyal club servant Dave Stringer with no previous managerial experience took on the job, saved us from the drop that season, 2 FA cup semis and took us to our highest position ever (4th) at the time!

 

So it work out like Deehan or preferably like Stringer!

 

I''d preferably want Boothroyd and Mackay with Gunny staying on behind them. If this doesn''t happen then in my opinion Gunny would be the next best option with someone like Crook assisting him!

 

Ince would be more of a gamble than Gunn and may rock the boat too much!

 

Gunny has proven people skills and loves the club so I think it could work!

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Oh yes and more evidence that Gunny could work - Today I was discussing the Canaries situation with a Sc*mmer mate and even he said that we (fellow Binners!) even like Gunny!

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"][IMG]http://cms.442.haymarketnetwork.com/contentimages/blog/Gunn.jpg[/IMG][/quote]Gunny looks like he''s about to be taken up by the Mother Ship in this picture... that''s one creepy face!Anyways, going back to the points about Gunn''s injury and Deehan''s possible mistake in not getting more experienced cover, I remember spending much of the rest of that season blaming Marshall for ''single-handedly'' getting us relegated - Gunn was my very first footballing hero.  Obviously, ''single-handed'' may have been a bit extreme but in the later years I always wondered why Marshall was cheered on the terraces when, in my eyes, it was our fault we were wallowing in that (this) division for so long.  Ironically, it was in his final season, before his desertion to the ''other side'' that I finally began to warm to him as a ''Keeper... then he went and betrayed us, proving I was right all along - Marshall is a sh*t keeper and a b*stard [:)]But, back on track, I agree that Gunny should be allowed to keep his reputation intact by not being put in charge, but I wouldn''t blame him for going for the job and I certainly won''t get on his back if he gets it.  If he does and it all goes wrong, it won''t be the death of my original Hero, it''ll just be an experiment gone wrong... hopefully, one that won''t end up with us in the wrong League..........Of course, there''s also the possibility that it could all go very right..................................... well, you never know!

[grantroederdisaster 0]

If we stay up this year it will be a similar massive achievement to the efforts last season!

 

If then it started to go wrong from next season with Gunny in charge then hes such a decent guy that he would fall on his sword!

 

Every candidate has his good points and bad points and apart from Ferguson who one of a only a few one off legendary managers all managers end up failing just like politicans!

 

Gunnys wouldn''t be my first choice but he''d be a better bet than most other candidates!

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

John Deehan was a Canaries legend who didn''t cut it as a manager although back in late 1987 Ken Brown was given the push and club legend and loyal club servant Dave Stringer with no previous managerial experience took on the job, saved us from the drop that season, 2 FA cup semis and took us to our highest position ever (4th) at the time!

 

So it work out like Deehan or preferably like Stringer!

 

I''d preferably want Boothroyd and Mackay with Gunny staying on behind them. If this doesn''t happen then in my opinion Gunny would be the next best option with someone like Crook assisting him!

 

Ince would be more of a gamble than Gunn and may rock the boat too much!

 

Gunny has proven people skills and loves the club so I think it could work!

[/quote]

 

Good call.....inside info?????