Lets be honest...this is crap

[Barclay_Boy 0]

and do you see how some of the usual suspects have taken this post, and subtly moved it from a Norwich City problem to a football problem in general. ie "it''s not just NCFC, it''s  because of x, or y, or z". Well no it isn''t, I don''t see many clubs with as little hope as us, who own as few decent players as us, with less on the pitch investment than us, who are more reliant on loans than us, or appear to have less idea of team selection or tactics than us. And that''s why they have lost many of the fans. We stiil go because we love the club, or because we''ve bought a season ticket so feel obliged to go. But I think they will have to come up with a pretty sharp marketing ploy to get 20000 season ticket holders for next season.

[gazzathegreat 0]

Mr Doncaster, on your Friday morning studying of this messageboard, please do us wonderful fans the honour - and print this thread off and present it at the next board meeting. All us wonderful fans that no other club seems to have, no other club can understand why we are so many.

Looks like yourself and the marketing team have a tough job over Christmas thinking up ways to win back the affections of so many disillusioned supporters.

[tribes 0]

[quote user="No Quarter"]I had one of those "moments" at the game last night. An epiphany if you will.  It got to about 60 mins and we had just scored, and I looked around me, saw everyone leaping about because we scored, and it suddenly occured to me.  This is crap.  I surveyd the area of the Barclay where I once stood with my mates, where I saw us beat Southampton in the FA cup quarter final, where I witnessed Flecky demolish Liverpool, where we had a crowd so loud my ears would ring and then where I''ve then sat and seen us see off Bayern Munich, win League One and countless other landmark moments in my life.  I then done the unthinkable and simply walked out.  For the first time in my life I left a game with 30 mins to go, and after we had just scored.  And it really hurt.  However, I suddenly realised that I don''t recognise Carrow Road, the players in the yellow and green or the supporters around me anymore.  I''m 33 and have been a season ticket holder since I was 4.    At that moment, all I could hear was "sit down please" from an over zealous steward, and the latest "terrace comedian" behind me.  I know people may brand me "fairweather", but that really isn''t the case.  I just feel that I have almost grown out of going to Carrow Road now.  I can''t relate to anybody around me, as a lot of them have only been going 4 or 5 years.  Fine.  For me though I remember my heroes (Fleck, Gunn, Ruel, Disco,Crook, Goss, Bruce, Watson, Newsome , Eadie etc etc etc), and it was these players I loved going to see, and the general atmosphere generated by the crowd.  Now there is no atmosphere or heroes.  I almost felt like Brooks in The Shawshank Redemption when he is released from prison, and see''s the state of the modern world.  Sorry to be a bit morbid, but thats just how I feel.[/quote]19 years as a seson ticket holder and have missed very few home games. Chase era, Hamilton disaster and Worthingtons latter days were bad times but still felt an affinity to the club. Now it''s the composition of the team and the attitude of our manager that has generated a sort of " is this our club?." feeling with many supporters I have spoken to.

Maybe it is necessary to have all these Loanees, with more to come, but the effect it has on lots of NCFC supporters is certainly not positive.

I attend each week with very litte enthusiasm and find it difficult to relate to all the loanees and lack of hope with regard to any young players coming through our Academy.

So rest assured No Quarter you are one of many.

Shackell has been the only one in the last how many years?

[nutty nigel 7,695]

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"]

and do you see how some of the usual suspects have taken this post, and subtly moved it from a Norwich City problem to a football problem in general. ie "it''s not just NCFC, it''s  because of x, or y, or z". Well no it isn''t, I don''t see many clubs with as little hope as us, who own as few decent players as us, with less on the pitch investment than us, who are more reliant on loans than us, or appear to have less idea of team selection or tactics than us. And that''s why they have lost many of the fans. We stiil go because we love the club, or because we''ve bought a season ticket so feel obliged to go. But I think they will have to come up with a pretty sharp marketing ploy to get 20000 season ticket holders for next season.

[/quote]

OK.. so if it''s not a football problem do you see it all down to Delia Smith? Is it all because of her?

Every season we get posters like you coming on here saying "you wait ''til renewal time" and every season you all renew whilst calling others sheep for doing the same. Well get this - fans like me don''t care if you renew or not. I was happy in crowds of 11,000 and could be happy in those crowds again. In fact sometimes the atmosphere in the ground was better in those days. I have never gone to football because "I feel obliged to go". If you do your season ticket truely is a waste of your money.

 

[Match Day Pie 0]

Barclay_Boy wrote the following post at 28/11/2008 5:37 AM:

and do you see how some of the usual suspects have taken this post, and subtly moved it from a Norwich City problem to a football problem in general. ie "it''s not just NCFC, it''s because of x, or y, or z". Well no it isn''t, I don''t see many clubs with as little hope as us, who own as few decent players as us, with less on the pitch investment than us, who are more reliant on loans than us, or appear to have less idea of team selection or tactics than us. And that''s why they have lost many of the fans. We stiil go because we love the club, or because we''ve bought a season ticket so feel obliged to go. But I think they will have to come up with a pretty sharp marketing ploy to get 20000 season ticket holders for next season.

-------------

That''s a bit unfair and unnecessary BB. It is a general problem in the Championship and the lower Prem. This is a serious debate about how people feel about going to NCFC and how that mirrors football in general, and for once on this board, people are being thoughtful and eloquent about it. Don''t spoil it!

I do a lot of work around football league clubs and I can tell you we''re certainly not alone. Of course our own problems are polarized because of what we see week in and week out, but believe me, there is a similar lack of hope at many, many clubs out there. Almost all of them will tell you the standard of players is dropping, and that their boards have spent silly money on things off the pitch.

However, I also talk to a lot of board members (not at Norwich, funnily enough) and they will tell you that without spending money on the infrastructure of the club (i.e. off pitch), the on pitch suffers. They say the off pitch stuff involves, directly or indirectly, the community (through the club hosting events, sponsoring football pitches etc) whom in turn put money back into the club, either in small ways or a la Carl Moore. But all of them will tell you it''s really difficult to strike a balance between the two.

Whether I believe them or not is difficult to say, but what is clear is that there is absolutely no money out there for 98% of the clubs in the football league. What we''re suffering is surprisingly common. I know that''s not much comfort, but the sadness I feel when i go to Carrow Road is not only a symptom of NCFC''s decline, but football in general. The longer the ''top 4'' runaway with Champ''s League money, and offer us a product that is further and further from that on our own doorstep, the more disillusioned we''ll be with our own club.

If anything we need to re-set our expectations and start again. Worthy screwed this cub with his lack of vision, Grant was a gamble we should never have taken and the board are paying for not being bold enough when the opportunities arose. This merry-go-round has to stop somewhere, and maybe it''s time to sit back and let Roeder get on with it for a few years? Who knows - but some stability would be better than the high-pressure, low results nonsense we find ourselves in now.

[Plastic Scouser 0]

I''ve been keeping an eye on this thread over the past 24hrs and it would appear that there is a great deal of feeling that the club is losing it''s most loyal fans.     Perhaps the best thing that could happen to this club would be relegation, a return to footballing "roots" and the re-development of a healthy youth policy.   Perhaps we need to go back to a stadium where 12,13 or 14 thousand is considered a good crowd.   I don''t think that relegation would necessarily be a bad thing - it might regenerate the passion in the club where players play for the team and for their financial future...Ah well, these are just the musings of a seriously disillusioned fan - don''t hold it against me, I''ll still be there in spirit when we play the Scum, and one day soon I intend to be walking down Riverside with my 6yr old to see City play for the first time in ages...

[blahblahblah 2]

I can certainly see why our supporters are feeling this more than others.  We have had more use of the loan system than most, mainly because it would have required a vast amount of money to sign the players brought in permanently.  Most of the signings that occur at this level seem to be loans.  Having said that, people used to accuse Etuhu and Robinson of "hiding" in matches, and they were on permanent contracts.  Whether a player chooses to put the effort in on the pitch is pretty much down to the conscience of the individual, regardless of the terms of their contract. 

We also have a very independent minded manager, who is in the habit of failing to endear himself to the public.  I wonder whether people would consider Worthingtons'' post-match bland blarney an improvement on the stroppy kid who knows best persona that Mr Roeder tars himself with at times.  With that said, Roeder is in the process of rebuilding the squad.  Because of a lack of consistancy and because of injuries this season, we have yet to see our best 11 on the pitch.  It could be that this season just fizzles out, or worse, we have to endure a relegation battle.  If it''s the latter, then Roeder will go as it''s a results business.  If it''s the former, then I think he''ll get another summer to add to the foundations he is trying to put in place this season.  Next season, we might get a few more permanent deals through, and maybe more heroes.  But most of the players who might have been championship heroes in the past are sitting on the benches of Premiership teams now.  And that''s where the problem lies.

[K Lo 235]

I don''t think that relegation would ever be good for any club. Look at Leeds, Forest, Leicester. None have come back orders of magnitude better than they went down. I don''t ever see releagtion as being a way to sort the club out and make a fresh fight of things. Say, we got relegated and then didn''t come back up for 5 years or so? That''s a whole lot of sponsership and crwods that will have been lost. I don''t have the answer to this club''s flight but it is not endemic in football throughout England & Wales. Right now must be and awesome time to follow Hull City (they''re my second team as my mum''s side of the family is from there). I used to watch them in the ''80s when we were there in old Division 3 or 4 and playing the likes of Rochdale & Scunthorpe and I remember thinking how I wanted Hull to be up there with Norwich in terms of success and crwod size. The city of (Kingston Upon) Hull certainly warranted greater successes than they had then. Now look at them. Without doubt punching above their weight but that''s the big appeal, isn''t it? How DARE they beat Arsenal at their ground! Reminded me when Norwich did that in ''92. 2-0 down at half time then Norwih came out in the 2nd half and thought "stuff this for a game of soldiers". It''s that kind of heroics and passion that seems to be missing from Norwich now but seems to be very much alive at Hull. Ian Ashbee has been with Hull City since their bottom-league status and still plays for them in the Prem.

[Jim Smith 2,366]

[quote user="BDCSid"]

At last a meaningful thread and good to know there are many more out there that feel like me and the supporters I go to games with.

In 40+ years of going to Carrow Rd and many many away matches it was at a recent game when we scored that I realised I wasn''t jumping up and down, hugging my mates, and climbing onto the back of the seat in front and waving two fingers at the away fans.  I was emotionless.  Just like the snakepit stewards would want us to be.  I''d lost the will to fight.  In fact I too left the ground early as I''ve lost contact with the players and management and board.  They don''t mean anything to me anymore which after so many years is such a shame.  Cut me and I bleed green and yellow but I just can''t be arsed at the moment.  To be honest its not just city its football in general.  Lita and Sibs on £50k+ a week between them for what?  Token efforts when they feel like it and just hide close to their marker the rest of the time like their team-mates.

On paper we have one of the best teams of recent years but of course we play on grass....and (excuse the pun) none of them can cut it at the standard of Championship football required.  Other teams have raised the standard now required to be successful in this league by pringing in or developing big athletic players who will fight for their shirts and show no small amout of skill along the way.  In our side the only player I have any time for (and god knows even he is frustrating) is Hooley.  Championship Player of the Year one minute and out of our squad the next.  We hear he may be a disruptive influence etc but thats what a Manager is very well paid to do...Manage.   He is key to our survival in unlocking defences and looking for that decisive through ball, but like all inspirational players he will have bad games.  Try an arm round the shoulder Mr Rodent like ''appy ''arry instead of being an arrogent "I''m always right" twat.

This Saturday for the first time in living memory not one of our group or associates is travelling.  Last Saturday just a couple went to Forrest while the rest of us went to follow a local non-league club and ended up watching the City game on the box as nobody could be arsed to make the effort for the players, management, and board who couldn''t really give a toss about the supporters.  Doomcasters comment today just make me sick.  Spin, spin, and more spin.  There is no identity between fans and players anymore with Rodents loan system, and even the players we "own" are not good enough for the hero mould.  The more Doomcaster talks about the wonderful fans the more I know the season ticket renew forms must be due soon.

Pre-season was a good time to have a beer and a chat to the players overseas (or in Scotland...) but now I wouldn''t cross the road to relieve myself on a player if he was on fire.  Actually I don''t know if I''d even recognise any of them.  That is unless its the usual crowd (the Doc and Co) out having a few beers and a laugh in Dellaneys after yet another defeat.  Great that they seem so upset...w**kers.

Where are the five players who could play in the Premiership that Rodent promised?  Where are the tall, physically big players that Rodent promised?  Why do we bother with corners as we haven''t had any ariel threat since Malky left.  No height and physical presence, just a bunch of lightweights.  Promises, promises, and like most of you I fell for the spin hook line and sinker.  And before one of the usual no life siacastic moaners and shit stirrers come on here and say "I told you so"..... f**k off! 

Gazza, ffs don''t stop singing even if you get some abuse off whoever the retards are in front of you.  Btw you know me...I was a mate of PMs from a few years back.  Most importantly give it the big''un at the next home game as you lot are nearest to the scum.  This isn''t aimed at people like you because I know how passionate you are about our club, but my heart bleeds when I look over at the Barclay these days and think what it was like for us in the 60''s, 70''s and 80''s.  Having spilt blood, sweat and tears on those terraces along with many I still go to games with (but now mostly retired to the Snakepit) I''m embarrassed when the away supporters taunt the Barclay and don''t get it straight back.  Such is the modern game.  All clubs have suffered in the same way with all seater stadiums (yes, even the old North Stand at Portaloo Road has some affection for us) so its not surprising as the new breed of fan takes over the old "ends".  Shame.  We were discussing last saturday about how it felt to be classed as dinosours by the modern politically correct green & yellow wig wearing sit-down-shut-up don''t swear football world of today.  Drop down a league or two and get back to terracing was the answer......then the beer wore off and reality hit.  Those days are long gone.

Ipshit is the last game I''ll be going to for a while (apart from the long FA Cup run to Wembley) as it doesn''t feel like my club anymore under this regime.  I know supporters from other clubs who feel exactly the same way, hence the 14,000 Birmingham fans who''ve turned out to their home games recently.  Charlton, Palarse (even if they''ve won a couple of games recently), Watford, Southampton, all struggling to half fill their stadiums.  The same will happen here in the next couple of years if the slippery slope continues to the end of this season.  Will PC step in as stated this week if it looks like League 1 football next season?  Could be (more likely just newspaper spin) but an injection of cash alone won''t put the soul back in the club. 

Sing up the Barcl......

 

Excellent post Sid. When I think back even 2 or 3 years to some of the trips we used to do to away games and then look at where we are now it really does make my heart sink. The real worry for me is not necessarily just the drop in numbers (although i think next season that will be significant as almost everyone I know is seriously considering not renewing their season ticket) but the type of fans and the people involved who are falling away. These are not post Cardiff fly by night supporters these are people like you and I who have been following norwich home and away for years and who now cannot bring themselves to do so as either we can''t be bothered or simply find it too painful. i have had a very similar experience to you recently at games when i''ve noticed we score goals and people (including me) just stand there and applaud and when it comes to that you start to think what''s the point!

Certainly the approach we are adopting for the rest of the season (and I suspect in the years to come unless something changes) is to pick and choose our games more carefully and in terms of away games go to a few but make a really big day of it. We will all be out for Ipswich (and whatever happens i hope that the recent lethargy can be set aside for that one and we all make a day of it), the FA Cup and probably the away trips to Donny, Swansea and one or two other places (when i hope we can persuade people to make the effort) but the days of 20 or 30 of us regularly hitting the road for away trips are gone for the time being. Will do a few England games as well and possibly may go and watch AFC Wimbledon with a couple of my mates when Norwich are away as well in an attempt to re-connect with football but to be honest i doubt we will ever recapture the atmosphere of years gone by! 

 

 

 

[/quote]

[InLambertWeTrust! 0]

This is a very interesting debate and certainly one that I have enjoyed reading.

For me my situation changes every season. I used to love going to carrow road, seeing all the people I know at the stadium and knowing that even if we might not win we will still try our damndest to win and that the players will care about putting it right the next game. Darren Huckerby was the pivotal point for me, we signed him on loan and then the board showed enough ambition (of course now we know that Mr. Moore helped out but thats by the by) to sign him on a full time contract. Great times for us all [Y]

The first game I went to (the play-off final) and the last home game against Birmingham? in the premierleague (with all of the home games between those periods) were games that I immensely enjoyed (see above reason).

The first season after relagation 2005/6? was when IMO we started going downhill. Worthy stayed on far too long (IMO the board were at fault) and we started going stale... I shall never forget the 4-1 mauling at home to Burnley...... Home games were still something I was getting fired up for however as things were still great - we hoped that a new manager would bring success back to Carra.

What a stupidly wrong misconception. Peter Grant came him and fair play to him, tried his best. Unfortunately handing out little bits of paper on the touch line isnt going to bring success. And then he left. I respect him quite a lot for ''resigning''. Home games were still an enjoyable things to attend, I was still happy. 

And now to the current manager. Well what can I say that hasnt already been said? For me the one thing that epitomises where it has gone is... you''ve guessed it!

Darren Huckerby.

Hucks was ''all that was good about the club'' in the time that he was here. Glenn Roeder made a TERRIBLE decision to axe him (i dont want to argue about whether he could still do a job because IMO he could). Hucks leaving was the point that I lost respect for him (and i guess for a lot of you as well?).

Hucks was the last hero standing if you like and someone like him with hero status needs to be kept to keep the fans happy. The way Glenn Roeder answered the fans at the AGM with ''stop living in the past'' illustrated that not only is he out of touch with the fans he is also an arrogant TWERP as well.

This season''s home games have been less special for me because of a) no real heroes that I can ''''connect'''' with b) Roeder doesnt seem to care what the fans think c) the team is god awful and full of loans who go back to their clubs and never have to think about NCFC again d) the terrible atmosphere (i''m not blaming fans here because reasons a, b and c are bigger contributing factors.

When atmosphere at the Carra is good, it is superb. When it''s bad it is bad.

I dont mind that much if we dont win every single game, I want to see a group of 11 men who put their all on the line for each other. A hero or 2 would be nice as well.

[FramCanary 0]

[quote user="tribes"]

[quote user="No Quarter"]I had one of those "moments" at the game last night. An epiphany if you will.  It got to about 60 mins and we had just scored, and I looked around me, saw everyone leaping about because we scored, and it suddenly occured to me.  This is crap.  I surveyd the area of the Barclay where I once stood with my mates, where I saw us beat Southampton in the FA cup quarter final, where I witnessed Flecky demolish Liverpool, where we had a crowd so loud my ears would ring and then where I''ve then sat and seen us see off Bayern Munich, win League One and countless other landmark moments in my life.  I then done the unthinkable and simply walked out.  For the first time in my life I left a game with 30 mins to go, and after we had just scored.  And it really hurt.  However, I suddenly realised that I don''t recognise Carrow Road, the players in the yellow and green or the supporters around me anymore.  I''m 33 and have been a season ticket holder since I was 4.    At that moment, all I could hear was "sit down please" from an over zealous steward, and the latest "terrace comedian" behind me.  I know people may brand me "fairweather", but that really isn''t the case.  I just feel that I have almost grown out of going to Carrow Road now.  I can''t relate to anybody around me, as a lot of them have only been going 4 or 5 years.  Fine.  For me though I remember my heroes (Fleck, Gunn, Ruel, Disco,Crook, Goss, Bruce, Watson, Newsome , Eadie etc etc etc), and it was these players I loved going to see, and the general atmosphere generated by the crowd.  Now there is no atmosphere or heroes.  I almost felt like Brooks in The Shawshank Redemption when he is released from prison, and see''s the state of the modern world.  Sorry to be a bit morbid, but thats just how I feel.[/quote]19 years as a seson ticket holder and have missed very few home games. Chase era, Hamilton disaster and Worthingtons latter days were bad times but still felt an affinity to the club. Now it''s the composition of the team and the attitude of our manager that has generated a sort of " is this our club?." feeling with many supporters I have spoken to.

Maybe it is necessary to have all these Loanees, with more to come, but the effect it has on lots of NCFC supporters is certainly not positive.

I attend each week with very litte enthusiasm and find it difficult to relate to all the loanees and lack of hope with regard to any young players coming through our Academy.

So rest assured No Quarter you are one of many.

Shackell has been the only one in the last how many years?

[/quote]

The theme of the thread relates to quality of football & other on-field issues being ..... crap.

Here we have a ''fan'' (typical of far too many) who only watched one of the best teams in the country finish 3rd, 4th & 5th in the top division, 2 FA Cup semi''s, European football .... only because he ''felt an affinity to the club''.

You should feel ashamed of yourself.

Staying with the theme of the thread, what do you actually want out of your time as an attendee at NCFC matches?. Have you ever figured it out?.

[Jim Smith 2,366]

He didn''t say he only watched us because he felt an affinity to the club he said that at least in the dark days towards the end of Chase''s regime he felt an affinity to the Club but is struggling to now.

I''m not quite sure what you point is are you saying we should just watch Norwich for reasons other than we have an affinity to our club. I like watching football but I watch Norwich because its my team. Always has been always will be and that will be the same for most clubs. Having said that I have of late felt much less of a connection to the current team than i have teams in the past where there have always been at least one or two players that I could identify with.

 

The people that watch Norwich for other reasons (i.e. have no affinity for the club but just want to watch a game) are the reason that the atmosphere is so cr*p!

 

[Ren 75]

Jim re your last sentance, I have just sent you an email sugesting that we take a stand (we have talked about it long enough) and go do something else for the Reading away game.  Maybe take in a game in the lower leagues at a new ground (pref with standing).

I guess we will be just as bad as the people you have mentioned!!  LOL!!

[Lord Horn 0]

[quote user="Sharp Shooter"]

idiot

[/quote]

He''s not the one with the avatar of some witless Fenland crim is he?

[Bobzilla 179]

Has Norwich changed? Really? Or has football changed?

Seriously. You get the odd player that is very much about the badge - I get the impression that Huckerby and Cureton are of that ilk - but with increasing mobility in football, where players may not have even been born in same country, let alone county as their chosen club, I think that player loyalty is something you very rarely find nowadays. There are players coming to the end of their careers that have had less clubs than those who have only just broken into the first team - they chase the money, and are sitting on huge salaries to play in the reserves team. And I think that clubs like Norwich cannot compete in the workd of cheque book loyalty that we have now. Please God can something happen to control and contain this - its destroying the game.

[Sing up the river end 0]

[quote user="No Quarter"]I had one of those "moments" at the game last night. An epiphany if you will.  It got to about 60 mins and we had just scored, and I looked around me, saw everyone leaping about because we scored, and it suddenly occured to me.  This is crap.  I surveyd the area of the Barclay where I once stood with my mates, where I saw us beat Southampton in the FA cup quarter final, where I witnessed Flecky demolish Liverpool, where we had a crowd so loud my ears would ring and then where I''ve then sat and seen us see off Bayern Munich, win League One and countless other landmark moments in my life.  I then done the unthinkable and simply walked out.  For the first time in my life I left a game with 30 mins to go, and after we had just scored.  And it really hurt.  However, I suddenly realised that I don''t recognise Carrow Road, the players in the yellow and green or the supporters around me anymore.  I''m 33 and have been a season ticket holder since I was 4.    At that moment, all I could hear was "sit down please" from an over zealous steward, and the latest "terrace comedian" behind me.  I know people may brand me "fairweather", but that really isn''t the case.  I just feel that I have almost grown out of going to Carrow Road now.  I can''t relate to anybody around me, as a lot of them have only been going 4 or 5 years.  Fine.  For me though I remember my heroes (Fleck, Gunn, Ruel, Disco,Crook, Goss, Bruce, Watson, Newsome , Eadie etc etc etc), and it was these players I loved going to see, and the general atmosphere generated by the crowd.  Now there is no atmosphere or heroes.  I almost felt like Brooks in The Shawshank Redemption when he is released from prison, and see''s the state of the modern world.  Sorry to be a bit morbid, but thats just how I feel.[/quote]

I have to agree (although gave my season ticket up last year).It''s due to the fact most of the players don''t care if we do well or not.At the end of the day they won''t be here next season.It is most of what is wrong with the once great game.Ican''t wait till football is no longer fashinable and we get back to what we once had.It will take a few years but it will happen

[Lord Horn 0]

[quote user="Ren"]

Jim re your last sentance, I have just sent you an email sugesting that we take a stand (we have talked about it long enough) and go do something else for the Reading away game.  Maybe take in a game in the lower leagues at a new ground (pref with standing).

I guess we will be just as bad as the people you have mentioned!!  LOL!!

[/quote]

What a great thread this is.  Just read through the lot of it and would like to add my thoughts.  Lot older than some of you on here but the concerns seem to span the age range.  The team are in a similar position now to when I started to watch them in the 1964-65 season - the main difference being that the players who were at the Club then had a passion for the Club and it''s history and committed 100% to the cause.  My dissolution started towards the end of the Peter Grant error (sorry era) and although a season ticket holder at Carrow Road I got involved in the MyFC project to buy and run a Club.  The Club in question turned out to be Ebbsfleet United in the Conference.  Although, as yet, they have not interfered with my watching of our beloved Canaries, the 5 times I have seen them play since involvement (including being able to take my youngest daughter to see them win a trophy at Wembley) have been some of the most enjoyable football experineces for me over the last year (with the exception of the recent home win against Wolves).  I had never really been interested or involved in non-league football before but it takes you back to a great time in football when you can turn up on the day, pay at a turnstile, mix freely with opposing fans and (best of all) stand to watch a game!  I still have my season ticket at Carrow Road (for now) but the best bit for me now is the pre-match socialising.  Were that it were different.  Anyone who hasn''t been involved with non-league stuff, I suggest taking a look be it your local village side, or the dizzy heights of Kings Lynn and the like.  I hope things change at Carrow Road before Carrow Road irrevocably changes me!

 

OTBC and Up The Fleet!

 

[FaTTY28uk 0]

I agree with most of the points raised on this enlightening thread, however I must take issue with the oft quoted 24000 attendance figure.

I detest the continual spin that is flung at us and this number is just another part of that whole process.

24000 at Carrow Road against Palace. I would surprised if the true attendance figure even made it to 20,000, and even if it did, I wonder how many were actually there courtesy of freebie"specials", dished out to help disguise the fact.

Like most other aspects of our club at the moment, our attendance figures are a sick joke.

[Jim Smith 2,366]

[quote user="Ren"]

Jim re your last sentance, I have just sent you an email sugesting that we take a stand (we have talked about it long enough) and go do something else for the Reading away game.  Maybe take in a game in the lower leagues at a new ground (pref with standing).

I guess we will be just as bad as the people you have mentioned!!  LOL!!

[/quote]

 

Not really mate - we''re not going to buy a season ticket at Leyton Orient or wherever it is we end up going or claim to be "fans" of that club!

[Boot 0]

I find myself agreeing with a good deal of what has been written here, but I thought I would offer a couple of thoughts:

1/   This is a football problem not just a Norwich problem, soulless grounds, lack of passion, lack of player loyalty and the bizarre financial structure which means clubs with no football history and no supporter passion like Wigan, Hull, Reading etc can laud it over teams like us, Ipswich, Birmingham, Wolves et al mean that the heart has gone out of football in general.

2/   To add a different perspective, I have taken my 5 year old for the first time this season and he is hooked.  Putting up posters, drawing pictures, writing fictitious match reports and being various members of the team kicking a ball about in the garden in all weathers reminds me of myself at his age.  His enthusiasm is based on a love of his new found club and it''s infectious!  My Norwich supporting days started in 1970 so it took a long while before I enjoyed any success as a supporter but it didn''t deter me any more than it seems to deter him.

None of the above is realy to disagree with earlier posters (except the usual simpletons who seem to blame our currecnt board for every ill) but I thought it might provide a different perspective. 

[grantroederdisaster 0]

[quote user="No Quarter"]I had one of those "moments" at the game last night. An epiphany if you will.  It got to about 60 mins and we had just scored, and I looked around me, saw everyone leaping about because we scored, and it suddenly occured to me.  This is crap.  I surveyd the area of the Barclay where I once stood with my mates, where I saw us beat Southampton in the FA cup quarter final, where I witnessed Flecky demolish Liverpool, where we had a crowd so loud my ears would ring and then where I''ve then sat and seen us see off Bayern Munich, win League One and countless other landmark moments in my life.  I then done the unthinkable and simply walked out.  For the first time in my life I left a game with 30 mins to go, and after we had just scored.  And it really hurt.  However, I suddenly realised that I don''t recognise Carrow Road, the players in the yellow and green or the supporters around me anymore.  I''m 33 and have been a season ticket holder since I was 4.    At that moment, all I could hear was "sit down please" from an over zealous steward, and the latest "terrace comedian" behind me.  I know people may brand me "fairweather", but that really isn''t the case.  I just feel that I have almost grown out of going to Carrow Road now.  I can''t relate to anybody around me, as a lot of them have only been going 4 or 5 years.  Fine.  For me though I remember my heroes (Fleck, Gunn, Ruel, Disco,Crook, Goss, Bruce, Watson, Newsome , Eadie etc etc etc), and it was these players I loved going to see, and the general atmosphere generated by the crowd.  Now there is no atmosphere or heroes.  I almost felt like Brooks in The Shawshank Redemption when he is released from prison, and see''s the state of the modern world.  Sorry to be a bit morbid, but thats just how I feel.[/quote]

 

I understand how you feel!

 

Our great club needs new owners and manager if it is too move forward again!

[grantroederdisaster 0]

I won''t criticise Delia and CO cause they have done a great job for the club and they realise like most of us do that they have to get out sooner rather than later!

 

Yes the ATT was 24,000 the other night unbelievably again!

 

The ground CAP is just over 26000. Nearly 500 of these seats are lost in the segregation with the away fans in the Jarold stand!

 

This means a true full house is about 25550.

 

25550 - 24000 = 1550.

 

When you take the segregated area out of the equation then the official 24000 for Tuesday doesn''t look to far of their was empty seats in both corners next to the River end and a sparse sprinkling in other areas!

 

 

[Jim Smith 2,366]

[quote user="Boot"]

I find myself agreeing with a good deal of what has been written here, but I thought I would offer a couple of thoughts:

1/   This is a football problem not just a Norwich problem, soulless grounds, lack of passion, lack of player loyalty and the bizarre financial structure which means clubs with no football history and no supporter passion like Wigan, Hull, Reading etc can laud it over teams like us, Ipswich, Birmingham, Wolves et al mean that the heart has gone out of football in general.

2/   To add a different perspective, I have taken my 5 year old for the first time this season and he is hooked.  Putting up posters, drawing pictures, writing fictitious match reports and being various members of the team kicking a ball about in the garden in all weathers reminds me of myself at his age.  His enthusiasm is based on a love of his new found club and it''s infectious!  My Norwich supporting days started in 1970 so it took a long while before I enjoyed any success as a supporter but it didn''t deter me any more than it seems to deter him.

None of the above is realy to disagree with earlier posters (except the usual simpletons who seem to blame our currecnt board for every ill) but I thought it might provide a different perspective. 

[/quote]

 

Interesting and good to know that your boy is hooked on the old yellow and green bug even though you do realise you have now inflicted a lifetime of misery on the poor lad!!

Joking aside I have no doubt that some of it is of course us getting older and clinging to a bygone age in the same way as you will frequently hear pensioners using the "back in my day" line. Your son knows nothing different so to him of course its all exciting and new and roy of the rovers stuff! He and his generation will no doubt be the lifeblood of the club over the next 30 years!

For me a lot of my disluusionment started when i actually met a few of our players. When your a kid they are heroes to look up to. When you see them being a t**t in Mercy VIP lounge its very hard to then go out and worship the same idiots on the pitch!

 

 

[tribes 0]

[quote user="FramCanary"][quote user="tribes"]

[quote user="No Quarter"]I had one of those "moments" at the game last night. An epiphany if you will.  It got to about 60 mins and we had just scored, and I looked around me, saw everyone leaping about because we scored, and it suddenly occured to me.  This is crap.  I surveyd the area of the Barclay where I once stood with my mates, where I saw us beat Southampton in the FA cup quarter final, where I witnessed Flecky demolish Liverpool, where we had a crowd so loud my ears would ring and then where I''ve then sat and seen us see off Bayern Munich, win League One and countless other landmark moments in my life.  I then done the unthinkable and simply walked out.  For the first time in my life I left a game with 30 mins to go, and after we had just scored.  And it really hurt.  However, I suddenly realised that I don''t recognise Carrow Road, the players in the yellow and green or the supporters around me anymore.  I''m 33 and have been a season ticket holder since I was 4.    At that moment, all I could hear was "sit down please" from an over zealous steward, and the latest "terrace comedian" behind me.  I know people may brand me "fairweather", but that really isn''t the case.  I just feel that I have almost grown out of going to Carrow Road now.  I can''t relate to anybody around me, as a lot of them have only been going 4 or 5 years.  Fine.  For me though I remember my heroes (Fleck, Gunn, Ruel, Disco,Crook, Goss, Bruce, Watson, Newsome , Eadie etc etc etc), and it was these players I loved going to see, and the general atmosphere generated by the crowd.  Now there is no atmosphere or heroes.  I almost felt like Brooks in The Shawshank Redemption when he is released from prison, and see''s the state of the modern world.  Sorry to be a bit morbid, but thats just how I feel.[/quote]19 years as a seson ticket holder and have missed very few home games. Chase era, Hamilton disaster and Worthingtons latter days were bad times but still felt an affinity to the club. Now it''s the composition of the team and the attitude of our manager that has generated a sort of " is this our club?." feeling with many supporters I have spoken to.

Maybe it is necessary to have all these Loanees, with more to come, but the effect it has on lots of NCFC supporters is certainly not positive.

I attend each week with very litte enthusiasm and find it difficult to relate to all the loanees and lack of hope with regard to any young players coming through our Academy.

So rest assured No Quarter you are one of many.

Shackell has been the only one in the last how many years?

[/quote]

The theme of the thread relates to quality of football & other on-field issues being ..... crap.

Here we have a ''fan'' (typical of far too many) who only watched one of the best teams in the country finish 3rd, 4th & 5th in the top division, 2 FA Cup semi''s, European football .... only because he ''felt an affinity to the club''.

You should feel ashamed of yourself.

Staying with the theme of the thread, what do you actually want out of your time as an attendee at NCFC matches?. Have you ever figured it out?.

[/quote]Suggest you read the post again, only this timr read it carefully.

[tribes 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

He didn''t say he only watched us because he felt an affinity to the club he said that at least in the dark days towards the end of Chase''s regime he felt an affinity to the Club but is struggling to now.

I''m not quite sure what you point is are you saying we should just watch Norwich for reasons other than we have an affinity to our club. I like watching football but I watch Norwich because its my team. Always has been always will be and that will be the same for most clubs. Having said that I have of late felt much less of a connection to the current team than i have teams in the past where there have always been at least one or two players that I could identify with.

 

The people that watch Norwich for other reasons (i.e. have no affinity for the club but just want to watch a game) are the reason that the atmosphere is so cr*p!

 

[/quote]Cheers for explaining to FranCanary.

[DEB (never forgotten) 0]

To me, the club lost it''s soul in the mid-90''s and (with the exception of 03/04 & the ''premiership experience'') has never got it back.

You are right... THE CLUB IS CRAP!..

[Robert N. LiM 4,691]

What a great thread. People wanting to know why there will never be serious protests against the current board only have to look here.

I have been a fan since 1985. I think this is the least enthusiastic I have ever felt about supporting City. I have a season ticket, but it only took a slight cold to stop me going on Tuesday night. I think the current board have made serious mistakes since relegation (possibly since promotion), but I can never get too angry about them, because their role in NCFC''s demise is so much smaller than the role played by the various people who have changed football so utterly since the Premier League started.

In the late 80s and early 90s we had crowds that were about a third of the size of the biggest clubs - about 16,000 at Carrow road, about 48,000 at Man Utd. Taking into account TV deals, they were probably about five to ten times as rich as us. You can compete with that sort of uneven playing field if (a) you scout good young players (b) you have good coaches and managers and (c) you make a good profit in the transfer market. And we did all those things and we did compete with them.

Now, despite the fact that our crowds are still about a third of the biggest clubs (24,000 to Man U''s 75,000), those clubs are hundreds of times richer than us. And any advantages we might have had have been taken away by (a) the journey time rule and the fact that the big clubs can buy players like Bertrand and graciously loan him out, rather than him working his way up the lower leagues; and by (c) the Bosman ruling that has hugely worked the favour of the players and the bigger clubs rather than clubs like us. So the quality of the way your club is run is less relevant. And clubs like ours are the worst hit. Medium-sized clubs from provincial, one-club cities (Us, Ipswich, Coventry, Southampton) used to be in the top division. We''ve now been replaced by the playthings of rich millionaires (Middlesbrough, Wigan, Fulham, Blackburn, etc.

So, as I say, I think the board and the various managers have made lots of mistakes in the last four years. But boards and managers always do, just as they get lots of things right. The difference is that in the past, when things were bad, you could always believe that good times were just around the corner. Wimbledon came from non-league football and won the FA Cup. Norwich avoided relegation in 1992, then finished third and beat Bayern in the UEFA Cup. What does the future hold for us now? If Cullum comes in on his white charger and buys the club, then hopefully we might be a bit like Wigan. And it''s that lack of any meaningful ability to dream which is killing football for the poor mugs who actually go and support their local team, and for me it''s far more depressing that the thought we might get relegated.

I think promotion robbed us of our innocence. That day at City Hall, as Drury lifted that ancient trophy, perhaps we thought that the glory days of the nineties were on the way back. Now we know that those days are gone for good, and that is not Delia''s fault. It''s Rupert Murdoch''s, Lord Justice Taylor''s, Jean-Marc Bosman''s, Richard Scudamore''s, and Andy Hughes''s. The board''s actions might be the reason we got relegated, and never had a decent stab of returning. And that makes me sad. But far worse is the knowledge that if they had got everything right, we would still have our ambitions limited by the way the game has been re-engineered. The main attraction of being a football fan is hope. And hope is what we have lost.

So you can rage at Delia if you like, and you might have good reasons to do so. But the chief emotion I have is one of sadness at the way a game that I used to love has been stripped of its soul, unpredictability and joy by suits whose only interest is money. Richard Scudamore, when I am king, you will be first against the wall.

[Robert N. LiM 4,691]

Really interesting reply, Lord Horn. I am really interested in the Ebbsfleet thing. This is a genuine question, not an attempt to have a go: are there former fans of Ebbsfleet who are upset about how their club has been taken over? I totally agree with you about the joys of lower and non-league football, and that would be my only consolation if City went down, but I wonder if some fans of Ebbsfleet resent being taken over by a bunch of people who hadn''t heard of them a year ago. As I say, maybe that resentment doesn''t exist. What''s your take on it?

 

[quote user="Lord Horn"][quote user="Ren"]

Jim re your last sentance, I have just sent you an email sugesting that we take a stand (we have talked about it long enough) and go do something else for the Reading away game.  Maybe take in a game in the lower leagues at a new ground (pref with standing).

I guess we will be just as bad as the people you have mentioned!!  LOL!!

[/quote]

What a great thread this is.  Just read through the lot of it and would like to add my thoughts.  Lot older than some of you on here but the concerns seem to span the age range.  The team are in a similar position now to when I started to watch them in the 1964-65 season - the main difference being that the players who were at the Club then had a passion for the Club and it''s history and committed 100% to the cause.  My dissolution started towards the end of the Peter Grant error (sorry era) and although a season ticket holder at Carrow Road I got involved in the MyFC project to buy and run a Club.  The Club in question turned out to be Ebbsfleet United in the Conference.  Although, as yet, they have not interfered with my watching of our beloved Canaries, the 5 times I have seen them play since involvement (including being able to take my youngest daughter to see them win a trophy at Wembley) have been some of the most enjoyable football experineces for me over the last year (with the exception of the recent home win against Wolves).  I had never really been interested or involved in non-league football before but it takes you back to a great time in football when you can turn up on the day, pay at a turnstile, mix freely with opposing fans and (best of all) stand to watch a game!  I still have my season ticket at Carrow Road (for now) but the best bit for me now is the pre-match socialising.  Were that it were different.  Anyone who hasn''t been involved with non-league stuff, I suggest taking a look be it your local village side, or the dizzy heights of Kings Lynn and the like.  I hope things change at Carrow Road before Carrow Road irrevocably changes me!

 

OTBC and Up The Fleet!

 

[/quote]

[FramCanary 0]

[quote user="CT "][quote user="Sharp Shooter"]

idiot

[/quote]

It''s you sir that is the idiot. The OP takes time out to write to us about how he REALLY feels about our club and you call him an idiot?
[/quote]

I''ll second that!

[Robert N. LiM 4,691]

I think his avatar marks him out as an idiot.