As requested by NCISA, feedback by one of its members

[gazzathegreat 0]

My thoughts on NCFC (for feedback) emailed to David Maidstone, Committee member of NCISA.

Jane Markland, season ticket holder. Gazzathegreat (Pink Un and FootballJunkie). Rosaryrose (Official site)

Member of NCISA.

I have been a Norwich City fan for many years, too many to mention and I am now very worried at the state our club is in. It’s not just the inconsistent football, the results or even the manner of play. It’s more to do with the scale of the demise our club is in and the reluctance of those on the Board to first accept these very real issues and seemingly have very little appetite to do anything constructive about them.

We have been in decline for a very long time. The Board are constantly repeating the mantra of prudence with ambition and telling us things are done “in the best interests of the club”. Why is it then that year upon year our balance sheets show more money coming in and less going out? Without listing the entire battery of ins and outs a rather stark example.

Ashton - Earnshaw - Cureton.

Surely anyone at any football club can see where we are heading.

In the close season we had the farce of the Delia outburst at the Royal Norfolk Show, telling all and sundry there were investors for the club. Later on we had a very rich fan proclaiming in the local press that he was ready to invest a great deal of money in the club and after a long period when no one knew what was happening he disappeared. Were there talks, was there an offer? It seems only a very few people know and that, supposedly, is in the “best interests of Norwich City Football Club”.

Passions amongst fans were reaching fever pitch, as in the long running Nigel Worthington affair, two distinct camps were emerging, this time the focus settled on the boardroom. Was Delia still up to the job? Should she just sell up?

Then the Turners left, under a cloak of secrecy, more akin to something from the Government Secret Services. Some of us realise why they left, but whatever any of us choses to believe anymore is open to ridicule, laughter or abuse, such is the depth of mistrust and paranoia amongst many City fans.

Just what is going on in those ivory towers and why are the fans (a very large number, given the past four years) being kept constantly in the dark?

Is it the Board think of us all as thick country yokels, more at home in the farmyard? Maybe they should wake up and realise that many fans (who the Chief Executive so often openly patronises) are Managing Directors of their own Companies, are Accountants who are able to fathom out the pages of accounts, they are loyal families who have put up with this attitude for far too long. With only a glossy little book of cosiness come season ticket renewal time. We all deserve a lot better from the Board who are supposedly running the club for our benefit, rather than their own.

Then of course we have the issue of the loan players. Seemingly we can’t afford to buy outright anyone of sufficient ability to play in the Championship, so have to rely on Mr Roeder’s connections with Reading, Chelsea and the like. We also (with excruciating embarrassment) have to rely on the generosity of a fan to help us loan one striker for a month. Yet, we can still invest in a luxury conservatory at the training ground. Little wonder the management don’t welcome fans there anymore.

Perhaps someone can explain why a club who are supposedly skint and can’t afford to consider a proven player in Huckerby another year (on reduced wages) can then go on and sign on many loan players who are on higher salaries? It begs a prompt answer.

We are told by Roeder that he loves loan players and if we don’t - well tough really. This smacks as “I know best” and is condescending claptrap. Never mind that since the start of the season we have all struggled to identify a team at any stage, the constant changing and nature of style of play is enough to make us dizzy and it’s on wonder the players wander around the pitch in a state of confusion and inertia.

As identity goes, can any of us truly say we can identify with the team now? Can anyone reel off the players anymore? They are a bunch of cosy long term contracts (most frozen out and loaned out), a few hangers on from previous managers who have made the grade with Roeder but quite frankly have made little impact with the supporters. Just how many players have songs sung for them these days? Who will remember this season, and the last, and the one before that with any affection, be able to recall much? Is it a mark of senility that I can remember great moments from 1988 but none from 2005?

We are going downhill, crisis after crisis. Even the AGM (supposedly an evening when Shareholders are able to address the board on any issues they are concerned with) was put back due to some administrative error. It doesn’t inspire confidence does it?

AI am writing this without much hope that it will change anything, rather it’s just my take on the demise and shoddy housekeeping by a group who deem to call themselves custodians of our football club - who have added on long term debt rather like a demented shopaholic on store cards and have presided over some of the worst seasons this wonderful club have endured, and still they remain, while conveniently finger pointing at any potential takeover bids as “not in the best interests of the club”.

I therefore charge you, NCFC Board of Directors as guilty of mass negligence, incompetence and complacency.

[The Butler 0]

Excellently put and obviously straight from the heart.

Perhaps someone should read it to the board.

Not a rant or protest but sums up the feelings of many of us "older" supporters[*]

[gazzathegreat 0]

Gee thanks Butler you make me feel a whole lot better, I am 50 next year and a new granny! At least I can smile about something!

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Gee thanks Butler you make me feel a whole lot better, I am 50 next year and a new granny! At least I can smile about something![/quote]

Sorry "Nan" . But you have summed up very well what I think many older (over 21) fans think.

we must leave a new generation something to support.

Does the new babe (sorry CA) look good in green and yellow? My new granddaughter does!! 

[gazzathegreat 0]

I have to confess I haven''t got her anything from the club shop yet, but will probably do so this week. We can only hope that our respective granddaughters have a team worth supporting in the next few years.

Her dad is a Hammers fan, but fear not, she will be soon making her debut in the Family Area.

[First Wizard 0]

One of your best written pieces ever Gazza, I can''t fault it.

[Mello Yello 2,572]

A clear mirror image of what I also think Gazza.....[Y]

 

[arrdee 2]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]One of your best written pieces ever Gazza, I can''t fault it.[/quote]

Yep good post Gazza , well written, you lovely old poster you....[Y]....arrdee.

[ca 1]

Great post Gazza, sums up my thoughts 100%.

[They need to EARN the right to play us 0]

I agree with most of this, however there are one or two points with which I disagree. Personally I think that someone who is paid a lot of money to manage NCFC should think he "knows best". I''d be worried if he didn''t.And again I have no problems with  loan players. I''m more interested in players'' skills, attitudes to NCFC and what they actually do for the club than whether we "own" them. Ryan Bertrand will end up playing many more games for us than Ashton ever did. Leroy has already scored four times as many league goals for us as Thorne did.With Huckerby I don''t believe the issue to have been finance. Huckerby was ineffective for much of last season because of his hip problems. The same hip problems that stopped him considering Toronto.The same hip problems that led him to sign just a one-year deal in the first place. Personally I''d have given him another year, but I think it''s understandable that Roeder decided to go with Hoolahan who is capable of being one of our stars for many years to come.Off the pitch the problem I believe has been the continuation of Chase''s policy of property development before anything else, and in particular the cronyism that led to the board having hopelessly inflated ideas of what moneys it would generate. Thus we embarked on a programme of ground redevelopment that has saddled us with much of the debt which is such a millstone.On the football side there are a number of problems which the non-executive directors should have been aware of and addressed, but they seem not to have done so. The most pressing of these is the failure of the Academy. A few years ago we were told that the failure to produce young players was due to the cutbacks imposed in the wake of the complete failure of Chase''s policy of flour mills before footballers. That is not the case now with the hugely expensive Academy. I do wonder about the coaches we have there. Jerry Goss was a great player, but he''s working in corporate sales. Craig Fleming was the epitome of a professional footballer, but he''s coaching at Lowestoft. We have re-hired the nonentity Darren Bloodworth (who he?).Since the departure of Duncan Forbes (at least until recently) our scouting has been a joke. And then there has been our assessment of the players we have wanted to sign. If the ludicrous Thorne and Chadwick were physically up to the rigours of second division football on the day they had their medicals, then for both of them that was the only day of their NCFC careers that they were.A club that can''t produce its own players, and pisses away fortunes on deadbeats and crocks is likely to find itself in a position where all it can afford are loans. Yet the non-executive directors have either looked at this state of affairs and been happy with it, or have simply not bothered to look at it. Either way I agree with the charge of negligence.

[gazzathegreat 0]

Thanks for your reply Reg.

As to Glenn Roeder, of course he should have the freedom to manage as he sees fit. But his dealing with the fans via the press are not all they could be. I don''t know if maybe you have more experience of him on a personal level, but he does come across as defensive and not caring much what the fans think. Does anyone empathise with him? His retort re the loan players, love them or lump it is not the response which will gain him much respect from the fans in general.

Having to rely on loan players is a direct result of our mismanagement up top. Roeder must have been made aware of these conditions on appointment. To me using loans is not going to help us build a team for the future, it''s too much chopping and changing. Having Grounds recalled suddenly and at the time having no cover CHs was not great forward planning.

I still think Huckerby''s departure was mainly a question of finance. He was, even in his injured state, still more capable than most players we have currently at the club. I am beginning to warm to Hoolahan, but he''s not exactly been an ever present has he.

The property development department - agreed with your points 100%. They should have appointed Sarah Beeney as a Consultant. Maybe they did.

I don''t know if you have read many of my posts before, but a lot of them have been about the academy, and I have emailed and questioned Mr Doncaster about this very issue repeatedly, we are informed that due to our geographical position we are unable to attract enough talent to compete with the other clubs. I have also asked how much the club puts into the academy each year but not received an answer I can understand, I am not an accountant.

I am not sure if Goss and Fleming, to use your two examples were ever approached as to working in a coaching role rather than their present positions. It would be interesting. Nevertheless I fully agree the focus of the board in their entire reign has been off the field.

[SuperWesIrishWizard 0]

Jeremy Goss was an academy coach for years, at a time when our academy produced nothing.

[WeAreYellows49 0]

Fantastic post/letter Gazza and sums up my feelings wonderfully [Y]

[astrodyne 0]

Very well said Gazza [Y]

[arrdee 2]

[quote user="arrdee"]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]One of your best written pieces ever Gazza, I can''t fault it.[/quote]

Yep good post Gazza , well written, you lovely old poster you....[Y]....arrdee.

[/quote]

And if I could just add , I know it was written from the heart of a wonderful City fan....[Y]....arrdee.

[Mister Chops 7]

This is excellent, gazza.  Particularly point about the silence and icy refusal to answer to the fans who, we have been told time and time over, "are the real owners of the club."  It''s patronising in the extreme, just as, after another no-show on the pitch, we read in the paper that Player X says "we owe the fans one."  That''s also true of the board - they owe us some answers.

[They need to EARN the right to play us 0]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]we are informed that due to our geographical position we are unable to attract enough talent to compete with the other clubs[/quote]

In which case what is the point of spending money on it?

[WeAreYellows49 0]

Mister Chops, well know the fans deserve answers to their questions, but I think, hand on heart we know they will never get those answers.  Bring them up at the AGM and you are made to look/feel stupid or made to shut up by those who are more than happy with what''s happening at the club, no questions asked.

Sad and sorry state of affairs our club at the moment, no doubt about that.

 

[lucky green trainers 0]

i agree gazza - but maybe the greatest failure of the board has been their inability to adapt to the changing economics of football and plan accordingly.  looking at the two periods before and after our prem promotion - after our relegation, (given our crowds and heritage)  i think its fair to say most fans held a reasonable expectation that each season we should be challenging for promotion,,,chase gambled with the clubs dosh and bailed out in disgrace - while the smiths gambled in a limited way with some of their own money,,,not quite in the al fayad fulham way, but enough to think we could be challenging for the top 6,,,and after the board matched the share issue offer - this new investment was instrumental in helping us gain promotion to the prem...and with the collusion between the fans/carl moore and the board, didn''t it feel like a new dawn at the club was breaking??? i''ll never forget the city hall celebrations - whad a night!!!but, i was truly gutted, when watching look east afterwards, delia come on and utter the now oft used phrase ''prudence with ambition'' policy of the board - i didn''t want to hear about following the flaming yo-yo charlton model,,,i remember thinking, here we go, the same old lack of ambition we always get at NCFC - and this is where the misjudgment occured in my view - instead of going for it, the board held back (they''ll say they had too because of the terms of the loan to re-build the jarrold) but if that was the case, why didn''t they seek fresh investment???  maybe another share issue would have been enough???  and since relegation??? the charlton model is dead in the water - we''ve seen an explosion in the wealth and popularity of the prem, and many new owners/benefactors coming into it, and increasingly so in the champsionship, to the point where we are unable to compete with freshly relegated sides with prem chute money, but also against a new breed of owner prepared to invest speculatively,,,to their credit, the smiths have been trying to exit this market, that they must be uncomfortable with, but clearly, the footy world has well and truly moved on, events have overtaken us...and in doing so, we''ve seen clubs like wigan, bolton, hull, stoke, reading, wba, bristol, pompy, boro, become/ing bigger clubs than ourselves,,,maybe the credit crunch and worldwide recession will see the prem bubble burst, but if so, the first prick will occur in the champs imo - where there''s only prizes for finishing in the first3...but whatever the scenario - a rich benefactor at city would be welcome,,,and maybe the players will overperform and stay relatively injury free over the rest of the season - but its only a hope - rather than an expectation,,,and thats the difference?<> 

[Syteanric 1]

good post Gazza! send it to the EDP Letters page.. reach an audience of those who dont post here and might put more pressure on the board for answers

jas :)

[GMF 1,010]

Excellent post Gazza.

I still don''t buy this arguement that geographical position is largely responsible for the academy being unable to generate sufficent talent. Ability isn''t limited purely by where you live, it''s largely down to the coaching a player receives.

I can accept that it''s a big step up from the academy to the first team (we now seem to have given up on reserve football) so, at the end of the day, that link has to be "worked on." If the player isn''t going to get a look in with the first team squad, then he should be loaned out accordingly and "pitched" at the right Club. Whether that''s at League One, League Two, or, maybe Conference level, that''s something for the Club to work out and build up relationships with specific accordingly.  I think this is something that we''ve failed to do and we''re actually responsible for letting down first or second year pro''s simply because they don''t get a look in.

[They need to EARN the right to play us 0]

[quote user="GazzaTCC"]

" If the player isn''t going to get a look in with the first team squad, then he should be loaned out accordingly and "pitched" at the right Club. Whether that''s at League One, League Two, or, maybe Conference level, that''s something for the Club to work out and build up relationships with specific accordingly.  I think this is something that we''ve failed to do and we''re actually responsible for letting down first or second year pro''s simply because they don''t get a look in.

[/quote]I don''t agree. Spillane and Martin are out on loan now. In recent years a selection of Jarvises, Smart, Cave-Brown, etc have been out on loan. I certainly agree with your point about coaching but I think that fundamentally these players aren''t good enough. Why for instance was so much money lavished on Ryan Jarvis, yet Danny Wright wasn''t picked up?

[GMF 1,010]

[quote user="Reg Presley"][quote user="GazzaTCC"]

" If the player isn''t going to get a look in with the first team squad, then he should be loaned out accordingly and "pitched" at the right Club. Whether that''s at League One, League Two, or, maybe Conference level, that''s something for the Club to work out and build up relationships with specific accordingly.  I think this is something that we''ve failed to do and we''re actually responsible for letting down first or second year pro''s simply because they don''t get a look in.

[/quote]

I don''t agree. Spillane and Martin are out on loan now. In recent years a selection of Jarvises, Smart, Cave-Brown, etc have been out on loan. I certainly agree with your point about coaching but I think that fundamentally these players aren''t good enough. Why for instance was so much money lavished on Ryan Jarvis, yet Danny Wright wasn''t picked up?
[/quote]

Reg, I''m aware that Spillane and Martin are out on loan now and I certainly agree that they''re not good enough at the moment to be in our Championship squad now and, probably never will be unless they can experience regular first team football, probably, at a lower level first.

Take the case of our current first year pro''s Rudd, Smith, Renton, Lanthorp and Daley. Do you genuinely think that they''re going to became Championship players merely by playing the occasional reserve team game and training week in, week out with the first team squad? I for one doubt their chances with the current set up.

My point is, they''ve got liitle, or no chance the way things stand and that, to my mind, means we''re letting them down and wasting money at the same time.

[They need to EARN the right to play us 0]

In the case of those players I''ve no idea because apart from Renton I''ve not seen any of them play. But one Jarvis went out on loan twice. The other one went out four times. Just going out on loan clearly isn''t the answer. I think there is a more fundamental problem: we aren''t taking the right quality into the Academy, or we''re training the individuality out of them (comments made by Adams and Charlton suggest that this might be the case). The argument that we are geographically challenged if it has merit surely means that the Academy will never succeed. I can personally think of a lot of local boys who have come through our youth system in the past - where are they now? What targets does the Academy have, if any, any what has been done about its failure to meet them?

[ca 1]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

good post Gazza! send it to the EDP Letters page.. reach an audience of those who dont post here and might put more pressure on the board for answers

jas :)

[/quote]

 

Good idea, try both the edp and een for max exposure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr.Carrow 394]

On the restrictions for the academy there are as many positives as negatives IMO.  The main negative is the "smallish City in a rural location" one, but that can be countered by pointing out that we don`t have the competition from other clubs that more densely populated areas have.  We should be picking up the cream from 1 million plus people and it`s very hard to believe there simply isn`t the talent there.

[0ridgemanddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

Again well written gazza I also wrote on the 18 Oct under the heading of "whos ready for a game of football" about my frustrations with this club. As a supporter of over fifty years I must question some of the decisions currently being made at Carrow Road.

Roeder states there is no comparison between training and playing to obtain match fitness, so what does he do he hones Litas fitness for a month or two to the detriment of two club strikers namely Cureton and Lupoli who either warm the bench or stay at home for the game. What happens when Lita returns to Reading whether it is one month or two months or should we ever get close to Reading in this league we have two strikers out of favour, out of confidence put straight back into the team to take all sorts of abuse.

Whilst I realise Cureton is not everyones cup of tea and the lads confidence is shattered I always thought that a good manager played these players for a few more games to regain their confidence not slag them off.

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="ridgeman"]

Again well written gazza I also wrote on the 18 Oct under the heading of "whos ready for a game of football" about my frustrations with this club. As a supporter of over fifty years I must question some of the decisions currently being made at Carrow Road.

Roeder states there is no comparison between training and playing to obtain match fitness, so what does he do he hones Litas fitness for a month or two to the detriment of two club strikers namely Cureton and Lupoli who either warm the bench or stay at home for the game. What happens when Lita returns to Reading whether it is one month or two months or should we ever get close to Reading in this league we have two strikers out of favour, out of confidence put straight back into the team to take all sorts of abuse.

Whilst I realise Cureton is not everyones cup of tea and the lads confidence is shattered I always thought that a good manager played these players for a few more games to regain their confidence not slag them off.

[/quote]thought provoking - maybe we could be the first club to loan out a loan player (lupoli) to gain some match fitness and confidence back!!!i feel sorry for poor curo - its not been a happy return, but then aside from lacking confidence, the boy''s legs seem to have gone - and with a good yard of pace...

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="lucky green trainers"][quote user="ridgeman"]

Again well written gazza I also wrote on the 18 Oct under the heading of "whos ready for a game of football" about my frustrations with this club. As a supporter of over fifty years I must question some of the decisions currently being made at Carrow Road.

Roeder states there is no comparison between training and playing to obtain match fitness, so what does he do he hones Litas fitness for a month or two to the detriment of two club strikers namely Cureton and Lupoli who either warm the bench or stay at home for the game. What happens when Lita returns to Reading whether it is one month or two months or should we ever get close to Reading in this league we have two strikers out of favour, out of confidence put straight back into the team to take all sorts of abuse.

Whilst I realise Cureton is not everyones cup of tea and the lads confidence is shattered I always thought that a good manager played these players for a few more games to regain their confidence not slag them off.

[/quote]

thought provoking - maybe we could be the first club to loan out a loan player (lupoli) to gain some match fitness and confidence back!!!

i feel sorry for poor curo - its not been a happy return, but then aside from lacking confidence, the boy''s legs seem to have gone - and with a good yard of pace...
[/quote]

You cannot loan out a loan player in the UK - the loan is between you and the "Master Club".  You can not sub contract that agreement to another club.

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="Camuldonum"][quote user="lucky green trainers"][quote user="ridgeman"]

Again well written gazza I also wrote on the 18 Oct under the heading of "whos ready for a game of football" about my frustrations with this club. As a supporter of over fifty years I must question some of the decisions currently being made at Carrow Road.

Roeder states there is no comparison between training and playing to obtain match fitness, so what does he do he hones Litas fitness for a month or two to the detriment of two club strikers namely Cureton and Lupoli who either warm the bench or stay at home for the game. What happens when Lita returns to Reading whether it is one month or two months or should we ever get close to Reading in this league we have two strikers out of favour, out of confidence put straight back into the team to take all sorts of abuse.

Whilst I realise Cureton is not everyones cup of tea and the lads confidence is shattered I always thought that a good manager played these players for a few more games to regain their confidence not slag them off.

[/quote]thought provoking - maybe we could be the first club to loan out a loan player (lupoli) to gain some match fitness and confidence back!!!i feel sorry for poor curo - its not been a happy return, but then aside from lacking confidence, the boy''s legs seem to have gone - and with a good yard of pace...[/quote]

You cannot loan out a loan player in the UK - the loan is between you and the "Master Club".  You can not sub contract that agreement to another club.

[/quote]you ole spoilsport!!!