The play - not the players

[Indy_Bones 441]

All,I''ve mentioned this a few times over the past 2 seasons, and nowhere was it more evident than tonight.The problem we have is not that the players aren''t good enough (a few exceptions maybe), but simply that the style of play is just not suited to the players we have.Take Croft for example, we all know that his delivery is not the greatest, but instead of asking him to work on improving it, we should instead be asking him to concentrate on what he''s better at (or at least used to be), which is running at the defender. NO defender likes having to deal with players who do this, why do you think Hucks was such a nightmare for most teams? Also, what is the actual point of developing better crossing ability, if the players upfront are much more comfortable with having the ball played to feet???Arsenal are a prime example of this. Why didn''t we see the likes of Ljungberg and Pires endlessly crossing balls into Henry? Simple, because heading the ball was arguably his weakest attribute, Bergkamp wasn''t the best in the air either (although far better than Henry). So instead the wingers cut in a lot more and played smart balls to feet or played the ball low across the area, or gave the defenders another threat to deal with because if simply allowed to advance they''d have a crack themselves.Yet instead of looking to adopt a similar tactic, which our wingers and forwards would likely thrive on, instead we''re looking for a target man...Continuing in the Arsenal vein, they also had fullbacks who loved to assist the attacking play - Lauren and Cole, and what do we have? Otsemobor and Bertrand, both of whom have plenty of pace and could offer a similar attacking threat, in fact Otsembor links really well with Croft, yet what happens most of the time? They look to overlap, and instead of using them, we pass the ball backwards or into the middle!We have a team in general with a good level of fitness, players like Fozzy and Rusty will run all day long, Clingan too by the looks of things, so we should be using this to our advantage and playing a fast paced, passing football game. Roeder himself has said that he wants to get the ball down more and start passing better, so what''s the delay? Don''t get me wrong, I don''t suddenly expect us to start playing like Arsenal or Man Utd overnight, in fact, until we get a much better squad, we never will do, but historically we''ve had teams of players more than capable of outplaying the opposition despite on paper them being ''superior'' players, and we desperately need to get back to that.At this level you don''t need to have the finest players in the world, you just need to ensure that you''re getting the players you do have to play to their strengths, and our squads strength is never going to be playing long balls or very direct football. We don''t have the height, we don''t have the physical strength in most cases, and we certainly don''t have a Yakubu-esque player who can sit upfront to receive these direct balls whilst holding off 2 hulking centre halves!I find the situation even more baffling considering Roeder''s strong links with Arsenal and his desire to play good football, something seems to be getting lost in translation.Here''s what I''d go with in an attacking 4-4-2 lineup:                               Marshall                    Kennedy          StefanovicOtsemobor                                            Bertrand                                       FozzyCroft                                                     Hoolahan                          Russell                   Lupoli               CuretonSubs: Rudd, Shackell, Clingan, Bell, MartinCroft and Bell are pretty much interchangeable on the right, and Bell can also play where Rusty is if required (as could Chadwick). Clingan can play the holding role isntead of Fozzy, or if we''re already up a couple and are looking to consolidate, could come on for Rusty to keep the midfield fairly tight. We may well sign another keeper, but until we do, Rudd gets the nod over Nelson for me who I just don''t rate.Should someone like Ameobi actually sign for us, I''d move Curo to the bench in place of Martin.This will probably have some of you shaking your heads or thinking I''m in some sort of fantasy land, but this selection would arguably get the best results for us as a team - using our main strengths.I''d appreciate everyone''s thoughts on this.RegardsIndy.

[lappinitup 629]

Indy, all of your posts on here are well thought out and significent. Unfortunately, they are ignored by the masses and soon disappear into the wilderness. It''s more important to have a flashy signature or to post countless threads than to talk footballing sense. Hopefully the youngsters on here will read your posts and start to debate them in the way you intended.

I agree with everything you stated except I would move Russell and croft to the bench, and play Bell and clingan with the NEW striker in place of Cureton.

[Syteanric 1]

Stefanovic didnt look that good last night.. and i still maintain that Semmy is a winger being played out of position.. drop Croft and push Semy to the wing, Perhaps try Owzusi at right back?

Would provide balance to the defence and allow semmy and hoolahans pace to terrorize the opposition.

jas :)

[macdougalls perm 0]

Great post Indy! Although I do agree with Jas, to an extent that Semmy could be very effective on the wing.

[Robert N. LiM 4,344]

Can we just nail this "Semmy is a winger" nonsense?He''s got bags of pace, but nothing else you would expect a right-midfielder to have. He doesn''t take people on, he can''t cross the ball, his passing is erratic. He looks good overlapping because when he does so, he''s in bags of space and doesn''t need to take on any defenders.He would be a hopeless midifelder and is much better at full back, attacking as much as possible.Indy, I don''t see why your expecting people to slate you. Your team looks like our obvious 1st XI at the moment. I''d have Chadwick over Croft, who I think is rubbish, and I''d obviously be hoping for more striking options before the start of the season, but what you say makes more or less perfect sense.

[Shack Attack 0]

Good post Indy [Y]

I was making a similar point last week about getting in a striker that would complement the rest of our attacking players. I simply can''t see the point in building a side with the intention of playing passing football and then bolting a Howard/Parkin style lump on at the end. We need a physical presence up front but that player also needs to be able to fit into our style of playing. If we sign Ameobi, and I still think it''s pretty likely that we will, I''d make him our main striker an play whoever out of Cureton and Lupoli strikes up the best partnership alongside him. I also think we could do with a genuine goalscoring midfielder, someone in the Damian Francis type mould, to replace Russell in your line up.

I agree wholehartedly with Lappin''s post by the way. Next time try a few of these [A][8o|][:@][8o|] or random CAPITAL LETTERS!!!!!!!111!!!!!!!1 if you want to get noticed [;)]. Sensible and rational debate about football tactics doesn''t seem very popular around these parts for some reason.

[O.T.B.C 0]

I agree too Indy. Croft loves it when he rins at players and he scared the full back in the 1st half. I did like some of the quick passing thou.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Canaries in Bed"]I agree too Indy. Croft loves it when he rins at players and he scared the full back in the 1st half. I did like some of the quick passing thou.[/quote]Exactly my point.I''m sure Bell or Chadwick would also be able to play in a similar manner, and it''s likely to yield much better results than hopeful crosses into the box for Lupoli and Curo.Most CCC teams cannot cope with with a passing possession game, and rather than trying to emulate the rest and simply buying hulking centre halves and some chunky monster upfront, we should be showing the others how well football can be played and see how their centre backs cope with it...

[ron obvious 1,502]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Canaries in Bed"]I agree too Indy. Croft loves it when he rins at players and he scared the full back in the 1st half. I did like some of the quick passing thou.[/quote]Exactly my point.I''m sure Bell or Chadwick would also be able to play in a similar manner, and it''s likely to yield much better results than hopeful crosses into the box for Lupoli and Curo.Most CCC teams cannot cope with with a passing possession game, and rather than trying to emulate the rest and simply buying hulking centre halves and some chunky monster upfront, we should be showing the others how well football can be played and see how their centre backs cope with it...[/quote]Agreed. I''ve said before how Champ CBs tend to be ageing Prem (Stefanovic! Let''s hope this isn''t his ''Peter Thorne'' season!) types & vulnerable to Hoolahan type players. There was one exchange between him, Pattison (stangely) & Cureton, who''s shot wasn''t hard enough, which went straight through the Spurs defence. If they could get Croft to cut inside more & cut the ball back from the goal line for Lupoli, Jamie - or a supporting midfielder - to latch on to, then goals would come. And how good would that be to watch!Having said that, a big guy is needed for tactical changes when necessary.

[Robert N. LiM 4,344]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

Good post Indy [Y]

I was making a similar point last week about getting in a striker that would complement the rest of our attacking players. I simply can''t see the point in building a side with the intention of playing passing football and then bolting a Howard/Parkin style lump on at the end. We need a physical presence up front but that player also needs to be able to fit into our style of playing. If we sign Ameobi, and I still think it''s pretty likely that we will, I''d make him our main striker an play whoever out of Cureton and Lupoli strikes up the best partnership alongside him. I also think we could do with a genuine goalscoring midfielder, someone in the Damian Francis type mould, to replace Russell in your line up.

I agree wholehartedly with Lappin''s post by the way. Next time try a few of these [A][8o|][:@][8o|] or random CAPITAL LETTERS!!!!!!!111!!!!!!!1 if you want to get noticed [;)]. Sensible and rational debate about football tactics doesn''t seem very popular around these parts for some reason.

[/quote]Delia out!

[Robert N. LiM 4,344]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

Good post Indy [Y]

I was making a similar point last week about getting in a striker that would complement the rest of our attacking players. I simply can''t see the point in building a side with the intention of playing passing football and then bolting a Howard/Parkin style lump on at the end. We need a physical presence up front but that player also needs to be able to fit into our style of playing. If we sign Ameobi, and I still think it''s pretty likely that we will, I''d make him our main striker an play whoever out of Cureton and Lupoli strikes up the best partnership alongside him. I also think we could do with a genuine goalscoring midfielder, someone in the Damian Francis type mould, to replace Russell in your line up.

I agree wholehartedly with Lappin''s post by the way. Next time try a few of these [A][8o|][:@][8o|] or random CAPITAL LETTERS!!!!!!!111!!!!!!!1 if you want to get noticed [;)]. Sensible and rational debate about football tactics doesn''t seem very popular around these parts for some reason.

[/quote]Seriously, couldn''t agree more. It''s much more fun discussing this stuff than talking with no knowledge about what Cullum might have offered Delia.

[Scottlarock 3]

Thouroghly good post and enjoyed your Arsenal/Norwich tactical comparisons.However that starting line up would see us murdered, there''s just not enough defensive cover that can get us out of trouble too. I think Clingan will be an everpresent but it''s just too early to say. You''re sticking your neck out with your centre backs considering they have never played together - Kennedy is however an excellent excellent defender providing he is fully committed and not affected by his knee injuries. I''m also not so sure that we''ll always be playing with two wingers - especially away from home - I think Glenn alluded to that last season.

[Chrisr 0]

Good Stuff Indy.

I am constantly amazed that we try to play long ball stuff. It''s never worked properly for us that I can remember and Carrow Rd is still a place where a goalkeeper rolling the ball to a defender or throwing the ball to a winger gets a ripple of applause. Spurs showed us last night exactly what happens if you can''t keep hold of the football at a high standard, you generally get it back from your own net.

The thing that concerns me about the team you have detailed is the lack of a lynch pin in midfield to move the ball about to feet with the panache of a Crook or a Mulryne. Fozzy and Rusty are competent players but I rather think they lack the vision and ability to really move the ball in a penetrating fashion.

That said i''d prefer to see them try than watch poor old Jamie using his hight against the neandethal centre backs abundant in the Championship.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Robert N. LiM"]Indy, I don''t see why your expecting people to slate you. Your team looks like our obvious 1st XI at the moment. I''d have Chadwick over Croft, who I think is rubbish, and I''d obviously be hoping for more striking options before the start of the season, but what you say makes more or less perfect sense.[/quote]Ah, you took the words out of my proverbial mouth.  Croft can''t pass water, and I suspect Bell might feature for Chadwick on the right.  Possibly Omusuzi at right back as Otsemobor can''t read a game that well and it''s only his pace that lets him get away with it.

[Robert N. LiM 4,344]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Robert N. LiM"]Indy, I don''t see why your expecting people to slate you. Your team looks like our obvious 1st XI at the moment. I''d have Chadwick over Croft, who I think is rubbish, and I''d obviously be hoping for more striking options before the start of the season, but what you say makes more or less perfect sense.[/quote]Ah, you took the words out of my proverbial mouth.  Croft can''t pass water, and I suspect Bell might feature for Chadwick on the right.  Possibly Omusuzi at right back as Otsemobor can''t read a game that well and it''s only his pace that lets him get away with it.[/quote]I am unfathomably wise. Not sure about right-back. I am uncomfortable selecting a player whose name I can''t spell. Once Omusuzi (is that right?) gets a nickname, he can have Semmy''s place.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Robert N. LiM"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Robert N. LiM"]Indy, I don''t see why your expecting people to slate you. Your team looks like our obvious 1st XI at the moment. I''d have Chadwick over Croft, who I think is rubbish, and I''d obviously be hoping for more striking options before the start of the season, but what you say makes more or less perfect sense.[/quote]Ah, you took the words out of my proverbial mouth.  Croft can''t pass water, and I suspect Bell might feature for Chadwick on the right.  Possibly Omusuzi at right back as Otsemobor can''t read a game that well and it''s only his pace that lets him get away with it.[/quote]I am unfathomably wise. Not sure about right-back. I am uncomfortable selecting a player whose name I can''t spell. Once Omusuzi (is that right?) gets a nickname, he can have Semmy''s place.

[/quote]Well... I guess it''s ''Semi or ''Zusi?                MarshallZusi          JFK     Stef          PlasticBelly        Fozzy   Rusty       Hulahoop        Lupi        Barn Door

[Robert N. LiM 4,344]

I''d prefer Zizou.

                          MontyQuattro   B-52   Wazzup   JukeboxDingdong   Bertrand   Starboard   Russell                Fish         Banjo

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Robert N. LiM"]I''d prefer Zizou.

                          MontyQuattro   B-52   Wazzup   JukeboxDingdong   Bertrand   Starboard   Russell                Fish         Banjo

[/quote]Bravo!Can''t compete with dat, but I''ve got the 1st Wizard 1st XI:                             WasterReject      Incompetent      Board Stooge      Journeyman

Baby Loanee       Has Been        League Two Reserve      Donkey

        Inadequate Foreigner            ***JAMIE C***

The beauty of this system is it also doubles as a handy guide to "1st Wizard BS Bingo" whenever you read one of his posts.    

[Buncey 1]

Very good post Indy. And I completely agree with it. I haven''t bothered to wade in on the target player debate simply because it seems to consist of kids spamming "Ameobi rawks lawl". In reality our midfield just did not create enough useful chances last year. For all his detractors Cureton didn''t get service, and nor really did Ched. There is no point whipping in crosses to cureton, he will never be able to get his head on them, as evidenced by last night. Croft is not a great crosser, so surely if he is to start then there is no point having target men in the box for those elusive crosses. I did like your Arsenal/Norwich analysis. It is interesting to note how Arsenal improved last season from last infront of goal. By selling Henry they changed the style of play. They had in Hleb, and Clichy and Eboue and Sagna, very good crossers of the ball. Rather than the attack being concentrated through Henry it was concentrated down the wings and onto Adebayors head. It worked. They did very well, better than expected and it shows that playing to players strengths can make a team play better.You could argue that we are in a similar position now. We''ve got rid of Hux and brought in one of the best crossers in the championship, Hoolahan. I''m not an expert on all players (maybe somebody could tell me), but if Bell is another good crosser then we have in position the ability to produce good crosses for a potential target man. I''d argue in favour of one for those reasons. I don''t believe you need a big man upfront to punt the ball to at every opotunity.Another thing to look at is Peter Crouch syndrome. Crouch is probably the most famous target man in the english game at the moment, but, quite honestly, he is an awful header-er of the ball. It gives evidence that sometimes it is the quality of the ball that is important and not even the player on the end. If you can deliver the ball onto his head, right infront of goal, in a good position at least twice a game, Crouch will often get a goal in the game. I''d argue similar for Cureton, if you give cureton the ball to his feet infront of goal he''ll score (we''ll that''s the theory....) and maybe that is where we have gone wrong last season. That said you still have to be able to put the ball in the net, and at the moment the jury is out on Cureton.

[Desi Rascall 0]

"Once Omusuzi (is that right?) gets a nickname,"

"Ozzy" is a good footballing nickname, "Ozzy''s Uzi" has a bot of canary call mispronounciation, meets staines massif, about it

[ron obvious 1,502]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Robert N. LiM"]I''d prefer Zizou.

                          MontyQuattro   B-52   Wazzup   JukeboxDingdong   Bertrand   Starboard   Russell                Fish         Banjo

[/quote]Bravo!Can''t compete with dat, but I''ve got the 1st Wizard 1st XI:                             WasterReject      Incompetent      Board Stooge      Journeyman

Baby Loanee       Has Been        League Two Reserve      Donkey

        Inadequate Foreigner            ***JAMIE C***

The beauty of this system is it also doubles as a handy guide to "1st Wizard BS Bingo" whenever you read one of his posts.     [/quote]Brilliant!  I particularly liked ''Inadequate Foreigner''  I''d stick to this & give up the satire, though.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

There are plenty of players out there who have played at a very high level, despite not having massive natural ability, by working hard and the fact that they are blessed with a "football brain".  There are also alot of players who have alot of natural ability, but just don`t have the mentality to make it work effectively.  We have far more of the latter than the former- which is why they were cheap (although jury`s still out on new boys to be fair).

[south of the border 0]

Agree with the thrust of your post indy bones.  It seems to me sometimes in our build up play both last night (in the first half) and last season that we do not seem able to make a pass from midfield to Cureton''s feet or an incisive pass between or over the oppositions defenders into the space behind when they are lined up about 25 yards from their goal, Cureton looked for this delivery many times last night you could see him making the run across thier back line pointing to where he wants the ball delivered and sadly I can only recall one attempt from our midfield to the deliver the required pass and that was from Clingan.  We always seem to opt for the sideways or backwards pass which is obviously necessay sometimes to maintain possesion of the ball but fozzy and patterson in particular makes a square pass or attempt some over ambitious inaccurate long pass to switch the play with the ball going out of play.  Is it a general lack of vision from our midfielders or just a mind-set that causes them to not pass the ball forward enough?  If the timing of the forward''s run is good enough to create the space to receive the ball then surely a 10-15yard pass is not beyond the ability of our midfield?  Or does your name have to be Fabregas to attempt this!!

However, in the defence of the midfield too often last season when they were in possesion moving forward there was no movement up front no runs off the ball looking for a pass so there was no option other than to pass the ball square or backwards with the result of a hoofed long ball which usually lost us prossesion.

So perhaps what I''m saying is there needs to be a general improvement from both our midfield and forward players next season to move the ball in a forward direction (pass & move!!)

Inspite of my ''ramblings'' I will be interested to see whether Hoolahan and Luppoli can link up effectively.

[Robert N. LiM 4,344]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Robert N. LiM"]I''d prefer Zizou.



                          Monty

Quattro   B-52   Wazzup   Jukebox

Dingdong   Bertrand   Starboard   Russell  

             Fish         Banjo


[/quote]

Bravo!

Can''t compete with dat, but I''ve got the 1st Wizard 1st XI:

                             Waster

Reject      Incompetent      Board Stooge      Journeyman


Baby Loanee       Has Been        League Two Reserve      Donkey


        Inadequate Foreigner            ***JAMIE C***



The beauty of this system is it also doubles as a handy guide to "1st Wizard BS Bingo" whenever you read one of his posts.
    
[/quote]

 

Marvellous. I do happen to have a soft spot for Jamie C. It''s always nice to see a player who cares about the club almost as much as I do. I really hope he has a good season this time, and I have a feeling that, with all the attention focused on Adebayor, or whoever we''re signing up front, he might just do that.

 

[Scooby 0]

Great post Indy. Gives me the chance to add to the Crofty/crossing/passing debate.  I''m afraid I have to question your arguement, and that of some of the others on this thread.  Why do people seem to think that a "cross" is only good for big forwards who can head the ball?  A cross can be a pass along the floor too. The hardest ball to defend is not the one that someone is trying to thread through from midfield to Curo''s feet (or whoever) but the one from wide positions that is BEHIND the back four! Whipped in with pace and YOUR strikers/midfielders running onto it while the back four back peddle.  Prime example, and before you all shout "header" was bents goal from the fantasatic cross from the left. Yes, it was a header but low and diving as the ball was only a couple of feet off the ground but you see my point, hard low and behind the defence.  This is Crofty''s problem as was ably demonstrated on Monday night several times but one in particular springs immeadiately to mind when he was put clear wide right and had FOUR, yes FOUR yellow shirts running at goal, edge of the 18, in a line.  One ball, hit low and hard across the box would have been perfect for any one of the four to reach.  What happened?  Crofty looks up and promptly played the ball behind the lot of them. Grrrroooaaaannnn, all around CR.  Unfortunately this happens all too often with our Mr Croft which is a shame as he gets into great positions through linking well with Semi or beating his man for pace, so i have to disagree with you Indy and say that ABOVE ALL, Crofty needs to learn how to cross. Players SHOULD work hard on their weak points, NOT just whatever they are already good at.

Oh and Scottlarock, when you say in your post that you''re not sure about the Kennedy / Stef CH pairing as they haven''t played together before..... well, with Doc out for 3 months................. who has??

Oh, and my team, when fit.                                   Marshall

                    Semi                  Kennedy                     Stefanovic                 Bertrand

                    Bell/ Chad           Fozzy                       Clingan                      Hooligan

                                          Lupoli                                   Ameobi [;)]

Subs : Hungarian dude(kosiwhatever), Omazulu, Rusty, Chad/Bell, Curo        

ps, Great debate again Indy, keep it up.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Scooby"]i have to disagree with you Indy and say that ABOVE ALL, Crofty needs to learn how to cross. Players SHOULD work hard on their weak points, NOT just whatever they are already good at.

ps, Great debate again Indy, keep it up.[/quote]I love a good debate :)

You (along with others) have given a well thought out reply, but I do have to disagree with the above point.

It''s something that happens too often for my liking in football, and some of the finest coaches such as Laureano Ruiz feel the same.

A player should be encouraged to develop their strong points as a priority.

Take for example a player like Wright-Phillips, he''s got bags of pace, has good close control and likes to run at defenders. On the downside, his crossing isn''t the best either, and his shooting can be awful at times. Now given the choice would you rather have a winger that''s excellent at running at defenders and using his pace to go past them, or have one that''s pretty good at this, and also average at crossing and having a shot?Look at Henry, despite his obvious world class ability as a striker, he

couldn''t head a ball to save his life, and do you honestly feel that

Wenger spent most of his time in the training sessions demanding Henry

improved this significantly, or do you think he simply accepted that it

was his weakest point and that it wasn''t integral to his role and

therefore concentrating on making sure he performed to his best in the

areas he was strongest at?I''d rather have a player who was outstanding in doing particular things, than try to have a ''jack of all trades'' who does fairly average across the board. There are the occasional players with the standard of C.Ronaldo etc who have everything, but these are few and far between, and certainly we are unlikely to be able to afford/attract these players in our current position.The principle is the same regardless of position, we all know that Cureton is not blessed with a lot of height or particularly good with his head, so should Roeder be demanding he works on getting higher in the air and improving his heading so we can play more long balls or crosses in the air, OR, should we accept that his style of play is that of the classic ''poacher'' and instead work on his strengths of playing off the defenders and making the darting runs into the box that he''s best at?Don''t get me wrong, I understand why many people feel that players should be working to improve their weaknesses, but I just don''t agree, or at least not to the extent they feel. Work on a weak point, but not to a degree whereby you''re not devoting the majority of the time to ensuring your strengths are improved/maintained.Indy.

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]A player should be encouraged to develop their strong points as a priority.

Take for example a player like Wright-Phillips, he''s got bags of pace,

has good close control and likes to run at defenders. On the downside,

his crossing isn''t the best either, and his shooting can be awful at

times. Now given the choice would you rather have a winger that''s

excellent at running at defenders and using his pace to go past them,

or have one that''s pretty good at this, and also average at crossing

and having a shot?[/quote]

I have to disagree, but only slightly.  What good is a winger

without the ability to deliver a cross or a shot? Sure he might be able

to work on his close control in order to be able to stroll through the

defence, but surely this would serve him better as an attacking central

midfielder or a second striker?  Out on the wing, its all well and

good being able to take on your man and get the ball to the byline, but

if the ball then proceeds to sail over everyone''s head, as it so often

does with Croft, what''s the point?

Will be interesting to see how Bell delivers, once he''s fit...

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Evil Monkey"]I have to disagree, but only slightly.  What good is a winger

without the ability to deliver a cross or a shot? Sure he might be able

to work on his close control in order to be able to stroll through the

defence, but surely this would serve him better as an attacking central

midfielder or a second striker?  Out on the wing, its all well and

good being able to take on your man and get the ball to the byline, but

if the ball then proceeds to sail over everyone''s head, as it so often

does with Croft, what''s the point?[/quote]Because a winger doesn''t have to simply go past the full back to the byline and then cross. Once past the defender it actually makes far more attacking sense to move towards the goal thereby forcing one of their centre halves to commit themselves, thereby giving incoming strikers much more freedom.Hucks used to regularly go past defenders and cut towards the goal, and whilst his crossing was a bit better than Crofts, it wasn''t his best point, yet most fans were more than willing to overlook this because of this attacking flair. If Croft was doing the same and keeping the ball down and running at the defender, there would be far more respect shown to him.Merely by being able to challenge a defender, a winger adds massive pressure onto the oppositions defence, and even if the player isn''t the best crosser of the ball, or best finisher, the defender cannot afford to just let them past hoping that they''re going to blow their chance.Interesting point you make about playing as an attacking midfielder EM, because Croft played there a number of times whilst at Man City, and for me did a better job in the role than he does on the wing, however I just can''t see him being played there, unless Roeder has signed Bell to replace him on the wing and give him a chance in the centre...hmmm...

[Evil Monkey 52]

Unlikely I argee, Indy*, and fair point about cutting inside, but this

would also require Crofty to work on his shooting.  I think he''s

got the running bit nailed, whichever way he goes he needs an end

product.  I''d love to see him push on, there''s just something

about Crofty that means you just can''t dislike him.  But I believe Bell, for now, might be a better bet....

*I''ve still not forgiven you, you know... I waited nearly 20 years for your return and........... and......... [:''(]

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Evil Monkey"]

*I''ve still not forgiven you, you know... I waited nearly 20 years for your return and........... and......... [:''(]

[/quote]I thought it was like Monday''s friendly - the first half was alright, I could have lived without the second half.