Praising Chedwyn, trashing Jamie. The facts.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

Jamie has scored 14 goals this season in 37 games at the rate of 0.378 per game.

Chedwyn has scored 7 goals this season in 24 games at the rate of 0.292 per game.

Jamie has an approximately 30% higher scoring rate this season. Fact.

I am not saying that Chedwyn may not turn out to be a better player than Jamie, or that Jamie''s strike rate ought not to have been a bit better than it is.

What it does illustrate in my view is that Jamie has a strikers instinct. And just like Jimmy Greaves, Robby Fowler, Michael Owen etc, he has the knack of being in the right place at the right time - all of them appear to miss many chances but stiil manage to score more than most.

Another striker simply would not have been in the positions that Jamie was to have had the chances in the first place.

Players like Jamie are fated to be heroes or zeroes, match-by-match. But you really wouldn''t want to be without them would you?

People say that Earnie had a higher strike rate. But did he work for the team like Jamie does????

So look at the facts people.

Jamie and Chedwyn fighting for one place next season will probably be fine.

Replacing Dion as their partner will be Glenn''s big headache.

It really doesn''t matter in the end whether a striker is 5ft 6in or 6ft 3in, 32 or 21, provided that he has the instinct, plays fot the team, gets in position for chances and scores more goals than most of the rest. Golden Boot seasons only occur once or twice in a lifetime - ask Michael Owen.

So Jamie. Yes we''re a little disappointed. but hold up your head - you''re not doing too bad.

And how about a last hurrah next year?

It was interesting to see Jamie & Adi together on the field again at Carrow Road. Some youngsters on here might find it interesting to research their time together here as youngsters.

One love.

OTBC 

 

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Jamie has scored 14 goals this season in 37 games at the rate of 0.378 per game.[/quote]

He has in fact played 41 games this season.

But other than that I think Evans is already a better player than Cureton and most forwards in this league - he is more of a team player (Cureton just isn''t, he offers very little to the team) and is very composed and confident for a 19-year-old.

Although why couldn''t Cureton and Evans play together? I think they''ve only played together for a full match once, against Barnsley and they did seem to work well. That''s assuming we can keep hold of Evans somehow, of course...

[Wings 0]

Facts and statistics can be manipulated to serve any purpose, and while your facts may look and sound convincing, a closer than cursory look shows the truth.

Jamie Cureton has scored 14 goals this season. Take off two for the Barnet game - that''s a cup fixture, and while others may consider it meaningful, those two goals at the end of the day mean diddly squat to what really matters, the league.

Then see how many games Jamie has scored in. He scored two against Southampton. One against Ipswich. One against Coventry. One against Scunthorpe. One against Wolves. One against Barnsley. One against Blackpool. One against Watford and three against Colchester.

So how many games has Cureton actually scored in? 9. Sure, some of those are important goals and many have won us vital points. But think back - how many more games has Cureton missed the opportunity to score? How many points has that man cost us by missing simple chances simply handed to him. My guess is far more than the 9 he has contributed goals in.

That fundamentally is our problem. How can we realistically look to scale this league when our supposed goal scoring striker pops up with goals in only eight to ten games a season? We need someone leading the line we can rely on to put the goals away time after time.

Now appreciate this thread if more Cureton vs Evans, and I''m not saying Evans is a better goal scorer.  However, I do think he adds more to the team in general than Cureton ever has and has not missed anywhere near as many sitters as Cureton has. I think Evans is the sort of player who''s hard work and determination will set up as many goals as he will score - and I just don''t think Cureton adds anything to the side except goal scoring threat.

[Bobert 0]

Those are silly statistics BBB. How many of JC''c goals are penalties? How many were against lowly teams like Colchester. JC has had a poor season compared with last year and you would better serve this Message Board with your time by suggesting the reason why.I thought Evans much the better of the two against Burnley....... and he scored!

[Norma Stick 0]

BBB, how can you compare Cureton to Greaves, Folwer and Owen?  Shouldn''t even be mentioned in the same breath.

And yes, Earnie did have a better strike rate and would have taken the chances yesterday to put the game out of reach long before Evans wrapped things up.

Cureton is paid to score goals.  Roeder even said so after the Colchester game.  Don''t matter how hard he works for the team.

Personally, I think that he was a ''panic'' buy following Earnshaw''s departure.  Be interesting who Roeder targets for next season, cause I get the feeling that he ain''t a big Cureton fan.

[Culverhouse was cool 0]

Good post! I agree with everything you say. The guy on Canary Call who blamed Jamie for all our problems this season was unbelievable!

Absolutely agree that it will be incredibly hard to replace Dion. 

[ca 1]

I''m a Jamie fan but have to admit that he did have several clear cut chances that he should have put away but having said that I''m pleased with his 14 goals overall plus he''ll get another couple next Sunday if he gets to come on in the 2nd half cause I suspect Roeder will start with young Ched..

P.S. BBB its Ade not Adi [:D]

[First Wizard 0]

What hacked me off Bly, was Roeders smarmy praise for Dion and Ched for scoring yesterday, whilst being totally non plus about Jamie''s hat trick against Col Who.

To me, it says that JC as no future here under the present manager.

And it would be Roeder and the clubs lost if that happened.

[Huddy 0]

I think Cureton has been overcriticised, but the facts youve shown are a tad misleading!

How many games have the two actually started?

[Huddy 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

What hacked me off Bly, was Roeders smarmy praise for Dion and Ched for scoring yesterday, whilst being totally non plus about Jamie''s hat trick against Col Who.

To me, it says that JC as no future here under the present manager.

And it would be Roeder and the clubs lost if that happened.

[/quote]

Thats an interesting pint Wiz.

Though, Dion is a bit different because of his carear and that he''s retiring. Evans has had more praise than Cureton, perhaps Roeder realises Cureton hasnt been consistent enough, while is trying to keep Evans sweet so we can hang on to him!

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="HUDDY "]

perhaps Roeder realises Cureton hasnt been consistent enough, while is trying to keep Evans sweet so we can hang on to him![/quote]

Thats fair comment Huddy, I can see your logic there.[Y]

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="Bobert"]Those are silly statistics BBB. How many of JC''c goals are penalties?[/quote]

Only two.

[DDD In The Fine City 1]

Games played are not the way to work out a strike rate, Minutes on the pitch are the only way to tell who has the better.

[Trent Canary 0]

I posted this on another thread, but thought id put it on a more appropriate thread.

Although I havent seen enough games to comment personally, Curetons goals alone may tell a different story to his overall impact on the attack.

Yes he has scored 14, but how many more goals could we have scored if we had a striker who could lay the ball off to others? How many more could we have had with a striker who actually gets hold of the ball and can link play?

The nature of Cureton is that he will score more goals for you, but his presence in the team means other players will have less opportunities to score.

Whether or not his presence is beneficial to the attack as a whole, and not just his personal stats is what matters. As I said Im not making a case either way.

The only real stat is the amount of goals scored with them in the team. And I mean goals from the whole team, not just the individual.

[ricardo 7,395]

Sorry Bly but Jamie is never going to be good enough to get us into the Premiership.

He wasn''t good enough the first time round, thats why we sold him. History has shown that that was a correct decision.

This time round he is in a lower Championship team and thats his maximum mark at best.

As regards comparing him with Dion and Ched, well he was never in Dions class and it looks odds on that Ched will also be in a different class.

Jamies only claim to fame is that he once dyed his hair green in a local derby and he scored a lot of goals at the third level of English football. No amount of selective statistics will ever change those facts.

[CostaCanary 0]

[quote user="ricardo"]

Sorry Bly but Jamie is never going to be good enough to get us into the Premiership.

He wasn''t good enough the first time round, thats why we sold him. History has shown that that was a correct decision.

This time round he is in a lower Championship team and thats his maximum mark at best.

As regards comparing him with Dion and Ched, well he was never in Dions class and it looks odds on that Ched will also be in a different class.

Jamies only claim to fame is that he once dyed his hair green in a local derby and he scored a lot of goals at the third level of English football. No amount of selective statistics will ever change those facts.

[/quote]

 

As far as I remember another claim to fame for Jamie was scoring the most goals last season in the Championship.  And isn''t that exactly what we want him to do again if we are to gain promotion to the Premiership?

Jamie has been really overcriticised by fans and managers alike.  Surely a striker''s job is to try to score as many as he can.  And as a result of that many chances are going to be missed.  Rooney doesn''t score from every chance that comes his way.  No, Jamie hasn''t had his best season ever - but neither have Norwich.  Has he been provided with as many goal scoring opportunities as he had last season at Colchester?  I doubt.  It''s the whole team that have struggled this season - and I for one, hate it when one player is singled out for critcism when so many are responsible.  It is very easy to single out strikers for critcism.  Their mistakes are so obvious.

I would say Jamie is the type of player who does not respond well to the public criticism from his manager.  But both Grant and more recently Roeder, appear have used criticism of Jamie as some kind of ''motivational technique''.  For me Roeder can do very little wrong, given the way he has manufactured what looks as if it is going to be Championship survival, when we were staring relegation in the face at the time that he took over.  But I would prefer him not to criticise individual players in public.  Praise yes - but I would like criticism of individuals to be saved for the dressing room and training ground. 

 

 

 

I

 

[Old Boy 0]

Cureton''s a great striker for the difficult chances - right up there with the best - but he''s missing the easy ones. And this goals per "appearance" thing is totally misleading - Evans''s "appearance" on Saturday was just 25 minutes. Also, I don''t agree that Evans does more for the team than Curo - my opinion is that Cureton actually does too much - he''ll be wide on the right when he should be in the box, etc.

[Google Bot 3,275]

If we''re talking stats, here are some more worthwile in-game ones (Cureton the top row for each):

2007/08 Statistics
TEAM COMPETITION (Taken from ESPN)

GS: Games started, SB: Used as Substitute, G: Goals, A: Assists, SH: Shots, SG: Shots on goal, YC: Yellow Cards, RC: Red Cards, FC: Fouls Commited, FS: Fouls Suffered, SV: Saves, OF: Offsides, W: Wins, D: Draws, L: Losses

GS SB G  A SH SG FC FS YC RC
28 11 12 0 87 45 16 17 2  0
16 8  7  0 58 33 20 33 1  0

Shots / Shots on target
87 - 45   (51% Accuracy)
58 - 33   (56% Accuracy)

Shots / Goals
87 - 12 (13.8%)
58 - 8  (13.8%)

Shots on Target / Goals
45 - 12 (26.6%)
33 - 8  (24.2%)

 

So Evans, so far, has been more accurate, yet Cureton is actually more prolific if the shot is on target.

Another interesting stat above is that Evans has been fouled almost twice as much as cureton... If only we still had Ian Crook!

Actually it''s more than that, he actually gets taken out twice in a game, whereas Cureton averages every other game, that''s 4x as many isnt it?!

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="Skijumptoes"]

If we''re talking stats, here are some more worthwile in-game ones (Cureton the top row for each):

2007/08 Statistics
TEAM COMPETITION (Taken from ESPN)

GS: Games started, SB: Used as Substitute, G: Goals, A: Assists, SH: Shots, SG: Shots on goal, YC: Yellow Cards, RC: Red Cards, FC: Fouls Commited, FS: Fouls Suffered, SV: Saves, OF: Offsides, W: Wins, D: Draws, L: Losses

GS SB G  A SH SG FC FS YC RC
28 11 12 0 87 45 16 17 2  0
16 8  7  0 58 33 20 33 1  0

Shots / Shots on target
87 - 45   (51% Accuracy)
58 - 33   (56% Accuracy)

Shots / Goals
87 - 12 (13.8%)
58 - 8  (13.8%)

Shots on Target / Goals
45 - 12 (26.6%)
33 - 8  (24.2%)

 

So Evans, so far, has been more accurate, yet Cureton is actually more prolific if the shot is on target.

Another interesting stat above is that Evans has been fouled almost twice as much as cureton... If only we still had Ian Crook!

Actually it''s more than that, he actually gets taken out twice in a game, whereas Cureton averages every other game, that''s 4x as many isnt it?!

[/quote]

Interesting info   ....toes.

Of course the exclusion of cup statistics favours Chedwyn - but far better than twisters just shouting about ''selected statistics'' and other nonsense in the vainglorious attempts to shout & make a case for their favourite!!!!

OTBC

 

 

[Trent Canary 0]

Interesting to note neither have an assist to their name as of yet! Other than that there is little to tell as they are both so close.

As I said earlier, the stat I would like to read is team goals scored with the player in the team. (Although again thats still dependent on the lineup changing every week)

[Lincs CR 0]

Based on those detailed stats 2 posts ago, there isnt all THAT much difference between the two when it comes to facts and figures, but personally Evans when he gets the ball does what Cureton has struggled to do this season which is put the defence in a panic. Evans beats more players for skill than Cureton does.

Two totally different styles, Cureton gets the ball in a goal scoring position, Evans would rather get into that position himself and finish it himself - I agree with a previous poster, stick the two together and see what happens, it happened once and they looked pretty good, try it again please Mr Roeder.

[First Jedi 0]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Some youngsters on here might find it interesting to research their time together here as youngsters.

[/quote]

 

Have we another homework assignment for tonight, then?

[mr happy 0]

Think this thread sums up alot of posters on this forum.How many other clubs fans slate their top scorer.Some of you should watch less soaps and try to live in the real world.With some of the crap football we played at the start off the season i am amazed we have even got a player in double figures.some people are never happy

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="mr happy"]Think this thread sums up alot of posters on this forum.How many other clubs fans slate their top scorer.Some of you should watch less soaps and try to live in the real world.With some of the crap football we played at the start off the season i am amazed we have even got a player in double figures.some people are never happy[/quote]

You said anything constructive yet?

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="mr happy"]Think this thread sums up alot of posters on this forum.How many other clubs fans slate their top scorer.Some of you should watch less soaps and try to live in the real world.With some of the crap football we played at the start off the season i am amazed we have even got a player in double figures.some people are never happy[/quote]

As a self confessed Mr. Happy, you are obviously easily satisfied.

Some of us have seen a lot better over the years and therefore expect a lot more from our club.

Selling a £3 million striker and buying a £400k striker at the start of the season was never going to represent progress. The fact is that we got the results that we paid for so why is anyone surprised?

[Taxing 0]

[quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="mr happy"]Think this thread sums up alot of posters on this forum.How many other clubs fans slate their top scorer.Some of you should watch less soaps and try to live in the real world.With some of the crap football we played at the start off the season i am amazed we have even got a player in double figures.some people are never happy[/quote]

As a self confessed Mr. Happy, you are obviously easily satisfied.

Some of us have seen a lot better over the years and therefore expect a lot more from our club.

Selling a £3 million striker and buying a £400k striker at the start of the season was never going to represent progress. The fact is that we got the results that we paid for so why is anyone surprised?

[/quote]

 

You''ve missed the point of the thread Ricardo. The original post was clear. What on earth was the point of Roeder''s observations regarding Ched Evans ? Why praise to the heavens a striker that we are not going to keep ? Even if we did have a chance of matching any fee that Man City might have come up with, Roeders comments will only now double that fee. So, that having been said, we are left with Cureton who is not only a fully contracted Norwich player but bleeds yellow and green blood. Even if he isn''t good enough to take us into the premiership, and I''m not sure that I agree with that assertion anyway and in any case some will point to the fact that he has not been given a suitable strike partner in the mould of Iwelumo, what effect on Cureton did Roeder think his praise of Evans would have ? A positive effect or a negative one ? IMO Roeder''s comments were ill-conceived, stupid and spiteful and, frankly, not inconsistent with much of what he has previously pronounced upon.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="Crikey..and with the outside of his foot"][quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="mr happy"]Think this thread sums up alot of posters on this forum.How many other clubs fans slate their top scorer.Some of you should watch less soaps and try to live in the real world.With some of the crap football we played at the start off the season i am amazed we have even got a player in double figures.some people are never happy[/quote]

As a self confessed Mr. Happy, you are obviously easily satisfied.

Some of us have seen a lot better over the years and therefore expect a lot more from our club.

Selling a £3 million striker and buying a £400k striker at the start of the season was never going to represent progress. The fact is that we got the results that we paid for so why is anyone surprised?

[/quote]

 

You''ve missed the point of the thread Ricardo. The original post was clear. What on earth was the point of Roeder''s observations regarding Ched Evans ? Why praise to the heavens a striker that we are not going to keep ? Even if we did have a chance of matching any fee that Man City might have come up with, Roeders comments will only now double that fee. So, that having been said, we are left with Cureton who is not only a fully contracted Norwich player but bleeds yellow and green blood. Even if he isn''t good enough to take us into the premiership, and I''m not sure that I agree with that assertion anyway and in any case some will point to the fact that he has not been given a suitable strike partner in the mould of Iwelumo, what effect on Cureton did Roeder think his praise of Evans would have ? A positive effect or a negative one ? IMO Roeder''s comments were ill-conceived, stupid and spiteful and, frankly, not inconsistent with much of what he has previously pronounced upon.

[/quote]

No I don''t think I have missed the point mate. Jamie has been rightly critisised by GR for his inability to put away some of the realatively easier chances that have come his way this season. You don''t need me to list them because we''ve all seen them. Jamie is an experienced striker at 32 years of age while Ched is a mere boy in comparison. GR rightly expects more of his most experienced striker. I have been at pains in many posts on here to say that I have always liked Jamie from first seeing him in the youth team. However that does not blind me to the fact that he has never made it at the higher levels. I stated this opinion when we bought him during the summer and was shouted down by the vast majority on here. Nothing I have seen this season has changed my mind on that matter.

I know that Jamie is a popular player, his green hair and goals against the Scum have seen to that fact. Any serious examination of his record however, shows that he has been most prolific in the lower second and upper third tiers of English football. As to playing with a big strke partner like Iwelumo, well you can''t get much bigger and better than Dion and Jamie has hardly been prolific while playing with him.

Jamie may well have a cult following among todays fans but how many of you would rate him in your top six strikers of all time for City? I would wager not many would include him even in the top ten. Ted Mac, Ron Davies, Sutton, Reeves, Boyer, Terry Allcock, Flecky, Kevin Drinkell, John Deehan, Earnie. Oh dear oh dear, not in that class is he.

So in conclusion I would say, Jamie rightly critisised, Ched rightly praised. Well done GR.