Football is the best substitute for war. Discuss.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

OK class, you may begin.

[:)]

OTBC

 

[InLambertWeTrust! 0]

Are you playing the role of grumpy decaying old teacher, Mr, Babes?

[blahblahblah 2]

Are you going to set a context, a foreword, or a pre-amble ?  Or is the subject matter not worthy of your time ?

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="CaT aka C.T"]

Are you playing the role of grumpy decaying old teacher, Mr, Babes?

[/quote]

Maybe so, maybe not so.

You judge.

OTBC

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]Are you going to set a context, a foreword, or a pre-amble ?  Or is the subject matter not worthy of your time ?
[/quote]

Now, now Blah. That''s not the way to pass your exams, you know.

OTBC

 

[Robert N. LiM 4,429]

He''s really lost it this time.Huckerby the best substitute for Croft? Discuss.

[Stevo 0]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

OK class, you may begin.

[:)]

OTBC

 

[/quote]

I assume you''ve been watching Paul McCartney''s ''play the pipes of peace'' video in which he recreates the moment in WWI when the English and Germans stopped shooting at eachother and played football?

Well what he didn''t show was the 2-footed lunge from a German staff-sergeant called Kuntz, which resulted in knee ligament damage for Corporal Stevens, an end to the game and everyone scurrying back to the trenches to resume hostilitites.

So basically Bly, football IS war!!

C minus?

[blahblahblah 2]

Football is not the best substitute for war, although it can a sporting analogy for conflict, with territory and possession being key factors, a goalmouth to protect, etc.Negotiation is the best substitute for war, or should that be alternative to.  More can be acheived through conversation than through violence, if everyone is willing to listen.

[Bobert 0]

You are so right blahblahblah. I cannot see the binners accepting 400 years of slavery ''cos Norwich beat them at football in the same way that the known world accepted slavery from the Romans or the English accepted slavery from the Normans when beaten in war.

Jaw,jaw is always better than war,war and I do remember a slogan outside a chapel on the Warrington/Knutsford Road that I used to cycle by as a boy which proclaimed: "Wisdom is better than weapons of war".

Having said that I get to thinking that there are a number of footballers I would rather have as President of the EEC than Tony Blair!

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

Sport isn''t the best substitute for war when you fancy wading into some third world country and nicking their oil, though a very long secret underground pipe might be. 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

Some material for you to work with class![:)]

The Football War
What was the "football war"? Where did it take place, how did it start? And who won? Read on...

The build-up to the 1970 World Cup began almost as soon as England beat West Germany 4-2 in the famous "did the ball really, really cross the line" final at Wembley in 1966. In South America, where football is THE sport, things had become fairly tense by 1969 when the matches to decide who would be going to the finals in Mexico were scheduled. El Salvador and Honduras were due to play a three-game play-off. The first game took place in the Honduran capital, Tegucigalpa.

Even before they arrived at the stadium, the Salvadoran players came across trouble. On the way to the game they had found themselves caught up in a national strike by Honduran teachers. The protesting teachers had scattered nails all over the main roads through the capital. This caused huge traffic jams and the Salvador team bus had all its tyres punctured. It was a tense game. The final score was 1-0 to Honduras. The home fans went wild, with predictable taunts and insults aimed at the visitors (as well as their wives
and mothers).

The second leg was to be played in San Salvador. The atmosphere in the Salvadoran capital was already warming up when the Honduran team arrived. It soon overheated. The hotel where the Honduran players were staying was arson-attacked during the night. Nobody was hurt, but the building had to be evacuated. The players were moved to another hotel. They didn''t get much sleep here though, as they found themselves being serenaded by an eight-piece band. The next day the Honduran team "underperformed", El Salvador won the game 3-0 and the post-match celebrations led to rioting, looting and further unpleasant moments for the "guests".

The third and deciding match took place on neutral ground - in Mexico. The match was, predictably, a sell-out and the whole of Central America came to a halt. The game (final score 3-2), and qualification for the World Cup Finals, went to El Salvador. However, that wasn''t the end of matters. Trouble erupted inside the stadium (even though 5,000 Mexican riot police had been drafted in to maintain order), and continued in the streets outside. Government officials from the two countries got involved, blaming each other for the violence. Things went from bad to worse. What started off as "minor incidents" soon became "violent clashes", then "armed skirmishes" and finally "heavy fighting".

At 5:50 pm on July 14, 1969 the Salvadoran Air Force made a surprise attack on Honduran targets. 9,000 ground forces moved about 30 kilometres into Honduras. The Salvadoran forces were not equipped for a sustained campaign and soon began to run out of fuel and ammunition. After four days the Organization of American States managed to impose a ceasefire. El Salvador agreed to withdraw its troops and by August 2, 1969 all Salvadorean forces had been removed. And all this because of a football match (or three!)

This is the version of events according to "football legends", but it''s all a bit unfair on "the beautiful game". Football was not the cause of what has come to be known as "the football war". So, how did it start? There are (surprise, surprise!) two versions, but it''s safe to speculate that money, politics and border disputes are part of it.

Relations between El Salvador and Honduras had been deteriorating throughout the 1960s. By 1969 some 300,000 Salvadoreans were living and working
in Honduras. Many of them had been driven by poverty to simply pack their bags and move across the border, where they set up "microfincas" - farms with less than one hectare of land. Meanwhile Honduras was faced with its own economic and political problems and found it convenient to blame these problems on illegal immigrants. The Honduran government began forcibly evicting the "squatters" from the farmland, so Salvadorans began streaming back across the border.

It was estimated that about 2,000 people were killed and somewhere between 12,000 and 16,000 injured. Countless others were left homeless. Trade between the two countries collapsed, (airline services were disrupted for over 10 years). Once the jingoism had passed, public support of the military (and morale within
it) fell away in both countries. It was another 23 years before the two-century old border dispute was settled with the help of the International Court of Justice in 1992.

The El Salvador football team made an early exit at the 1970 World Cup Finals. They lost all three of the first round qualifying games (to Mexico, the Soviet Union and Belgium), failing to score a single goal. There were no winners in the Football War!

OTBC

[Scooby 0]

Brilliant Bly,  just Brilliant, 10/10 and a big gold[*], go to the top of the class !!! 

[Shack Attack 0]

But Sir, I was going to say El Salvador and Honduras [;)].

What about Dinamo Zagreb vs Red Star Belgrade in 1991.

"For many Croats, the war of independence from Serbia did not start in June of 1991 as most history books will tell you. The "real" date was May 13th of 1990, when Dinamo Zagreb ultras, the Bad Blue Boys (their original name is in English) stood up against the Serb-controlled police and their foes, Red Star Belgrade followers, that were tearing Dinamo''s stadium apart. That was also the day Zvonimir Boban became a legend for a kick without a ball."

Full story here - http://www.soccerphile.com/soccerphile/news/balkans-soccer/football-war.html

No surprise really. As Gandhi memorably said (well nearly [;)]), "Anyone who says that football and politics should never mix understands neither.".

[yellow hammer 0]

Give war a chance.

[InLambertWeTrust! 0]

[quote user="yellow hammer"]Give war a chance.[/quote]

are you for real?

[we8wba 0]

for once im agreeing with c.t

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="yellow hammer"]Give war a chance.[/quote]

War is much older than football!

So maybe it''s youth that needs a chance?

OTBC

 

[Mister Chops 7]

I always thought Rugby was a more meaningful resemblance of sport as warfare, gladiatorial elements included.  Territory given and conceded, heroic acts acted out in vain, valiant last stands to turn the game around.  But then I remembered that war breeds death, destruction and untold horrors and decided to say that this thread is totally fatuous.  It''s like saying "only eating the orange smarties is the best substitute for racism," or "eating green jelly babies is the best substitute for genocide."

With that, I think I''ll get my dinner.

 

[InLambertWeTrust! 0]

cheers we8 what about?

[Feathers 0]

The massive rivalry between Real Madrid and Barcelona is interesting. Madrid has ties with the King of Spain and Franco, and the Barca Nou Camp was the only place you could safely speak Catalan in the aftermath of the Spanish Civil War. Barcelona is widely considered the capital of Anarchism too, which puts it on a political polar opposite to the Fascist Franco''s Madrid.The world cup and euros can bring out the ugliest nationalism, in the form of hooligans, but also a spirit of internationalism, in the form of fan''s events and the worldwide love of the game.Do I get any stars miss?

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]

I always thought Rugby was a more meaningful resemblance of sport as warfare, gladiatorial elements included.  Territory given and conceded, heroic acts acted out in vain, valiant last stands to turn the game around.  But then I remembered that war breeds death, destruction and untold horrors and decided to say that this thread is totally fatuous.  It''s like saying "only eating the orange smarties is the best substitute for racism," or "eating green jelly babies is the best substitute for genocide."

With that, I think I''ll get my dinner.

[/quote]

There be a banana war too. Google it!

There be green bananas and yellow bananas and I bet you don''t know which are figs!

Now that''s fatuous.

Although your avatar may be able to bail you out this time  judging by the looks of his dinner.

OTBC

 

[Snuggles 0]

What if we''d had a football match to settle the Falklands? And it had been decided by Maradona''s hand of God?

 

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][

Although your avatar may be able to bail you out this time  judging by the looks of his dinner.

[/quote]

Bly, you suggest that''s an avatar?  It''s a photo, damn it!

 

[missing in action? 0]

FOOTBALL IS A SUBSTITUTE FOR WAR BECAUSE EVERYONE CAN UNITE, IN THEIR HATRED OF THE SHITE REFEREE!!!!!

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="buddhaboy"]FOOTBALL IS A SUBSTITUTE FOR WAR BECAUSE EVERYONE CAN UNITE, IN THEIR HATRED OF THE SHITE REFEREE!!!!!
[/quote]

That''s funny, Buddha. Your published post says *** referee, yet here when  ''copied for quote'' it''s a slightly rude adjective which I shall not repeat for fear of ...........!

Ah the perils of censorship, ah the perils of technology.

But maybe Archant has stumbled upon it - The Next War will be started by Technology!! Eureka!

OTBC

 

 

[Houston Canary 0]

If footy was to take the place of war, then one of two things would happen, and a 3rd we could only hope for.

1. The #1 sport in the US would quickly become soccer.

OR

2. We''d all be speaking Brazilian and living in hillside shanties in teeming barrios.

OR ..................we would be hoping for..........................

3. Norwich City to rule the world!  Huckerby for President.

(p.s. I know the Brazilians speak Portugese, so ease up those of you having conniptions.)

[missing in action? 0]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

[quote user="buddhaboy"]FOOTBALL IS A SUBSTITUTE FOR WAR BECAUSE EVERYONE CAN UNITE, IN THEIR HATRED OF THE SHITE REFEREE!!!!![/quote]

That''s funny, Buddha. Your published post says *** referee, yet here when  ''copied for quote'' it''s a slightly rude adjective which I shall not repeat for fear of ...........!

Ah the perils of censorship, ah the perils of technology.

But maybe Archant has stumbled upon it - The Next War will be started by Technology!! Eureka!

OTBC

 

 

[/quote]HAHA yh, well, i despise technology as i cant use it...that said, i get the feeling id lose in the battle versus technology, god forbid it to happen of course!