Is Knapper getting outbound loans right?

[Michael Starr 519]

Vicente Reyes is doing well at Forest Green, Abu Kamara seems to be loved at Portsmouth, Tzolis has potentially added a few million to his price tag at Fortuna and Idah is smashing them in up North. Are we getting our outbound loans right now? Is this something Knapper has influenced as an ex-loans manager at Arsenal.

[Monty13 2,235]

Weren’t Tzolis and Kamara Webber loans?

[Capt. Pants 4,255]

I don't think Idah's loan was right. I'd rather he was "smashing them in" here, or at least giving us an option off the bench.

[Branston Pickle 3,662]

9 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Weren’t Tzolis and Kamara Webber loans?

Yes, they were - nothing to do with Knapper, presumably more to do with Adams and Webber.  Idah’s loan is still a little confusing to many and the key one that Knapper has overseen.

[repman 635]

If all those players were going to be regularly starting in our team they wouldn't have gone out on loan. It's good that they're all smashing it and preferably it would be here, but it's better for everyone for them to have success elsewhere instead of having limited opportunities here.

 

[Branston Pickle 3,662]

1 hour ago, repman said:

If all those players were going to be regularly starting in our team they wouldn't have gone out on loan. It's good that they're all smashing it and preferably it would be here, but it's better for everyone for them to have success elsewhere instead of having limited opportunities here.

 

Indeed. That wasn’t the question, though.

[Coneys Knee 978]

Liam Gibbs is one that desperately needs a successful loan next season. There’s a good player in there, I just hope we don’t stifle his development like we did Idah.

[RobJames 881]

1 hour ago, Michael Starr said:

Vicente Reyes is doing well at Forest Green, Abu Kamara seems to be loved at Portsmouth, Tzolis has potentially added a few million to his price tag at Fortuna and Idah is smashing them in up North. Are we getting our outbound loans right now? Is this something Knapper has influenced as an ex-loans manager at Arsenal.

All of whom were Webber signings and subsequently Webber loans. Reyes had previously been loaned to Braintree. Idah had made it known he wanted regularly first team football. Not sure if that could be done after the window shut, and Webber was gone by January. Idahs time at Celtic might vindicate the 5 year deal he was signed up to.

Not sure of your point, other than to highlight the solid ground Webber over saw via the scouting network, Adams and the coaching staff.

Edited April 7 by RobJames

[littleyellowbirdie 2,560]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

I don't think Idah's loan was right. I'd rather he was "smashing them in" here, or at least giving us an option off the bench.

Realistically, he'd never have gained the confidence to start smashing them in without the move.

[repman 635]

10 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Indeed. That wasn’t the question, though.

I mean, the answer is yes, those loans have generally been good for all the players involved. Whether they could have contributed here is another question. I think Tzolis certainly could have, and Idah already did this season. Ultimately though the only person who can decide that is the manager, not the SD. 

[RobJames 881]

An unsettled player is not what you want around the dressing room, or Colney. Celtic is his boyhood club, a dream move. His departure has not stopped us from 'smashing them in'. Works OK for both sides, and good luck to him.

Maybe Celtic will want to keep him and the money can be used to strengthen our squad for next season.

[Branston Pickle 3,662]

19 minutes ago, repman said:

I mean, the answer is yes, those loans have generally been good for all the players involved. Whether they could have contributed here is another question. I think Tzolis certainly could have, and Idah already did this season. Ultimately though the only person who can decide that is the manager, not the SD. 

The question was “has Knapper got the loans right”.  He wasn’t involved in most of them, and the main one - Idah - is somewhat questionable.  

It’s clearly sensible for squad players to be loaned out who would otherwise be nowhere near a start/spot on the bench.

 

Edited April 7 by Branston Pickle

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

Kamara is getting what idah should have had at his age and that’s lower league experience of playing week in week out. It can only develop players the more minutes at first team level they get. 

[Mason 47 1,387]

Personal opinion is that our loan stable has been handled much better since last Summer. I even think the Idah loan was the right call. 

It's a vital yet oft-forgotten part of the whole ecosystem. The Matos situation occurred in part due to the poor handling of Tom Dickson-Peters loan spells, which in turn is influencing the Aboh situation. I'm glad to see so many of our young players having notable loans this year.

[Kingston Yellow 220]

5 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Weren’t Tzolis and Kamara Webber loans?

Yep

[Thirsty Lizard 3,168]

1 hour ago, Mason 47 said:

Personal opinion is that our loan stable has been handled much better since last Summer. I even think the Idah loan was the right call. 

It's a vital yet oft-forgotten part of the whole ecosystem. The Matos situation occurred in part due to the poor handling of Tom Dickson-Peters loan spells, which in turn is influencing the Aboh situation. I'm glad to see so many of our young players having notable loans this year.

I'm sorry, but this is fanciful. The Matos situation has occurred 100% because he is a boyhood Chelsea fan and they have offered him far, far more than we could offer a player of his age - it's nothing at all to do with Tom Dickson-Peters. 

[Samwam27 531]

5 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

I don't think Idah's loan was right. I'd rather he was "smashing them in" here, or at least giving us an option off the bench.

Idah wasnt happy with his super sub status here and wanted regular game.time at Celtic.

Unfortunately the grass isnt always greener and hes become exactly the same at Celtic.

That said we do miss someone now who can score from.the bench, and Idah was that for us. 

We've failed him in that hes needed a loan spell for years

[Capt. Pants 4,255]

12 hours ago, Samwam27 said:

Idah wasnt happy with his super sub status here and wanted regular game.time at Celtic 

I hear that a lot. I'm not convinced he was doing much harm even if he were unsettled, no more than Sorensen, Gibbs, Batth and any others who were not getting regular game time.

My main point about Idah is not about him gaining confidence elsewhere and being of more use to us next season, but the lack of attacking options off the bench. And that’s before Rowe got injured.

[hogesar 9,704]

6 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I hear that a lot. I'm not convinced he was doing much harm even if he were unsettled, no more than Sorensen, Gibbs, Batth and any others who were not getting regular game time.

My main point about Idah is not about him gaining confidence elsewhere and being of more use to us next season, but the lack of attacking options off the bench. And that’s before Rowe got injured.

Exactly this? What other club in the top 8 loaned out their, I think it was second top scorer at the time? And even if we accept that he "had to go" to Celtic, then what on earth was Knapper thinking in signing a player that not only looks totally unsuitable anyway, but was massively unfit anyway! MID-SEASON!

I'm delighted what the players and Wagner are achieving right now but it's literally in spite of our January window under Knapper, not because of it.

[Badger 2,407]

42 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Exactly this? What other club in the top 8 loaned out their, I think it was second top scorer at the time? And even if we accept that he "had to go" to Celtic, then what on earth was Knapper thinking in signing a player that not only looks totally unsuitable anyway, but was massively unfit anyway! MID-SEASON!

I'm delighted what the players and Wagner are achieving right now but it's literally in spite of our January window under Knapper, not because of it.

Idah has needed a loan out for years and it has never been "the right time." He will come back a better player or attract a higher offer. We have not really missed him, but obviously might worry if Sargent is injured. However, tbh, when Sargent/ Barnes were out, he didn't look a top striker at this level: a loan for his development was the right decision in the circumstances.

 

[hogesar 9,704]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

Idah has needed a loan out for years and it has never been "the right time." He will come back a better player or attract a higher offer. We have not really missed him, but obviously might worry if Sargent is injured. However, tbh, when Sargent/ Barnes were out, he didn't look a top striker at this level: a loan for his development was the right decision in the circumstances.

 

He played 1200 minutes for us in the first half of the season, scoring 6 goals and getting an assist. We have had to be really clever in managing Sargent because we don't have an alternate option, because the replacement we signed is unfit and unsuitable.

Idah could have made the difference away to QPR / Blackburn for example, when Sargent could only do 60 minutes or so.

He didn't look a top striker at this level but he was the best sub-striker we had at the club.

A loan for his development is all well and good if you find a ready, fit replacement. Otherwise, you simply hold off to the summer. 5 months.

[Badger 2,407]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

He played 1200 minutes for us in the first half of the season, scoring 6 goals and getting an assist. We have had to be really clever in managing Sargent because we don't have an alternate option, because the replacement we signed is unfit and unsuitable.

Idah could have made the difference away to QPR / Blackburn for example, when Sargent could only do 60 minutes or so.

He didn't look a top striker at this level but he was the best sub-striker we had at the club.

A loan for his development is all well and good if you find a ready, fit replacement. Otherwise, you simply hold off to the summer. 5 months.

Your point is reasonable, but the same point has been made at every stage of Idah's career. It is not a black and white issue but on balance, I suspect that it was probably the right one - if Sargent gets injured, I may regret saying this! I suspect that the recruitment team probably expected that Van H was going to be rather better than he has seemed on the brief evidence that I have seen.

[Mason 47 1,387]

On 07/04/2024 at 19:41, Thirsty Lizard said:

I'm sorry, but this is fanciful. The Matos situation has occurred 100% because he is a boyhood Chelsea fan and they have offered him far, far more than we could offer a player of his age - it's nothing at all to do with Tom Dickson-Peters. 

Michael Bailey did a piece on this. Yes, all the things you mention for Matos went against us, but MB mentions that both Matos & good friend Aboh saw the pretty naff loans for TDP and had no faith in the club to get future loans for them correct. I wasn't just coming up with this off the top of my head.

[repman 635]

Idah going on loan was him taking control of his development & career more than the club doing it to benefit them down the line. He'd had a run of first team games in his career (to an extent, Wagner went with Hwang plenty of times too) and didn't really fancy being relegated to a subs role for another 6 months. 

The club could've put their foot down but that's generally not how any club works nowadays. As for SVH coming in he was what we could get to replace Idah, not the other way round where he was brought in and Idah moved out as a result. We also could've brought Hwang back, but the timeline was pretty tight and with Knapper's comments regarding the age of the squad, and perhaps with an eye towards next season, we opted for SVH.