Webber makes the national news

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

Well what a f*king useful interjection to the argument over whether it was racist that was then.

[canarybubbles 1,915]

56 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Why do you think he said it then?  You seem to struggle quite a bit with this sort of thing. Do you find it a bit overwhelming when the vast majority of people disagree with you? 

Overwhelming? He loves it when the vast majority of people disagree with him. It's his raison d'être. If it wasn't this, it would be how wonderful Dean Smith was, or how the fans are to blame for last season's poor showing, or how Delia wasn't dismissive of Connor Southwell at the AGM, or whatever argument he can stir up to get involved in a spat.  

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

5 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Intentions don't matter in this case. 

HOW THE F*K DO INTENTIONS NOT MATTER WITH REGARD TO RACISM?!

[sonyc 5,519]

6 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

HOW THE F*K DO INTENTIONS NOT MATTER WITH REGARD TO RACISM?!

There are so many sources about intent and impact. Do look them up as it will be useful I think. Bobzilla has elegantly explained above but here is a very accessible link. You've already posted about Jamal Lewis's family considering legal action. They have experienced Webber's words unfavourably. None of this really needs to be debated does it? Webber himself has acknowledged his own regret. He has realised what his words have meant. What he intended is not, unfortunately (for Norwich City' s reputation and the families names) that relevant. He has said them. Maybe, like you and one or two others have said he isn't a racist person. His comments though have had an impact - so much so that it has reached a national stage. 

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/culture-religion-and-psychology/202309/intent-matters-but-impact-matters-more

Edited March 27 by sonyc

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

17 minutes ago, sonyc said:

There are so many sources about intent and impact. Do look them up as it will be useful I think. Bobzilla has elegantly explained above but here is a very accessible link.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/culture-religion-and-psychology/202309/intent-matters-but-impact-matters-more

There is no real world impact here. Nobody has been attacked, nobody has been injured. Some poorly chosen words, that did not mention race at all were communicated which caused personal upset and which triggered a direct personal apology to those directly affected once he'd realised he'd upset them.

This is the whole problem with defining racism based exclusively on whether one person perceives something to be so to the exclusion of the motive and intent.

Edit: I'd also add that the link you've posted talks about assuming positive intent, when the manner in which Webber is being treated regarding the comments seems to assume negative intent in assuming that the people he mentioned all happened to be black through deliberate design on Webber's part rather than an accident of the fact that a lot of footballers are black and a lot of black people are socially disadvantaged.

Edited March 27 by littleyellowbirdie

[Google Bot 3,278]

45 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Apparently one of the families wants to take him to court. I actually hope they do as I'd really like to see how this plays out in a court of law.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/webber-sterling-aarons-lewis-kamara-32431441

I can't bring myself to click on Mirror, Sun or Daily Mail links, Does it say on what grounds?

Defamation I could appreciate more than racism, perhaps.  It'd be quite funny if something like this did go the distance and it transpired that those named had been making claims about their pasts in order to act tough around other players, and Webber took it as gospel.  🙂

[repman 635]

There was a good thread on twitter from Times journalist Jonathan Northcroft.

https://x.com/JNorthcroft/status/1772313599463071909?s=20

[shefcanary 2,409]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Apparently one of the families wants to take him to court. I actually hope they do as I'd really like to see how this plays out in a court of law.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/webber-sterling-aarons-lewis-kamara-32431441

OMG. 🤦‍♂️

When I first raised the issue of a lack of corporate governance at Board level, little did I think it would end up in this sort of a civil trial. 

 

[sonyc 5,519]

55 minutes ago, repman said:

There was a good thread on twitter from Times journalist Jonathan Northcroft.

https://x.com/JNorthcroft/status/1772313599463071909?s=20

Thanks for this link. It underlines exactly what I was trying to say to LYB who either doesn't get the point I was trying to say or is simply being contrarian. Or simply doesn't agree with a point I was making. Or all of the above. It is about bias and impact. Plus, it is damaging to Norwich City and also points yet again at the inadequacy in the governance set up.

[Monty13 2,234]

2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Yes it is boring, as is every petty fogging minor thing that triggers the woke brigade on multiple subjects. 

What he said was wrong, it was mistaken, it was badly judged - and that should be all that is said about it imo.  

I'm surprised that anyone of any stature wants to say  anything about these kinds of subjects anymore, because it is a minefield of what you can say and what you can't say for fear of offending those who are just waiting for the slightest slip of the tongue to pounce and cry Racist! Sexist! or whatever "ist" it is that triggers them. 

Webber fell into the trap by daring to make a particular point, he did it badly - wrongly even - but underlying that, was a positive message about footballers, which most people seem to have ignored, in favour of shouting him down. 

 

 

He wasn’t daring, he didn’t fall into a trap. 

This has nothing to do with the “woke brigade”, I’m willing to bet a bunch of people on here and elsewhere are pretty unhappy with the extremes of racial politicking but still know Webber was in the wrong.

He lumped a bunch of young men together because they are black, I’m honestly shocked you refuse to see that and at what you keep writing on this subject.

[Monty13 2,234]

1 hour ago, repman said:

There was a good thread on twitter from Times journalist Jonathan Northcroft.

https://x.com/JNorthcroft/status/1772313599463071909?s=20

He’s absolutely spot on.

[The Bristol Nest 513]

The individuals involved in minimising the issue of racism to further their world view of white victimhood are predictable and they appear to enjoy their status as useful idiots.

The boring ploy of pretending that it is about each individual being referred to, rather than the racial grouping,  is ignorant and convenient to the narrative of a non existent woke conspiracy.

Edited March 27 by The Bristol Nest

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

OMG. 🤦‍♂️

When I first raised the issue of a lack of corporate governance at Board level, little did I think it would end up in this sort of a civil trial. 

 

You didn't think it because it won't... 

Ps imagine smiley emoji... 

[Bobzilla 144]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

There is no real world impact here. Nobody has been attacked, nobody has been injured. Some poorly chosen words, that did not mention race at all were communicated which caused personal upset and which triggered a direct personal apology to those directly affected once he'd realised he'd upset them.

This is the whole problem with defining racism based exclusively on whether one person perceives something to be so to the exclusion of the motive and intent.

Edit: I'd also add that the link you've posted talks about assuming positive intent, when the manner in which Webber is being treated regarding the comments seems to assume negative intent in assuming that the people he mentioned all happened to be black through deliberate design on Webber's part rather than an accident of the fact that a lot of footballers are black and a lot of black people are socially disadvantaged.

So racism etc is totally fine up until the point it turns into violence? We killed that idea as being acceptable at least 20 years ago.

As for a lot of footballers being black, exactly how many black players are there in our squad, out of what total number of players?  In north London clubs there are a lot of black players. The rest of football? Not so much... Norwich? **** all.

Edited March 27 by Bobzilla

[Google Bot 3,278]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

When I first raised the issue of a lack of corporate governance at Board level, little did I think it would end up in this sort of a civil trial. 

At least we've learnt that speaking to journalists while in your final week of gardening leave is not a wise choice. 

As they say, "He had one job..."

Edited March 27 by Google Bot

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

20 minutes ago, Bobzilla said:

So racism etc is totally fine up until the point it turns into violence? We killed that idea as being acceptable at least 20 years ago.

As for a lot of footballers being black, exactly how many black players are there in our squad, out of what total number of players?  In north London clubs there are a lot of black players. The rest of football? Not so much... Norwich? **** all.

Don't be ridiculous. He was not actively peddling any negative stereotypes. He's accused of having singled out the players for being black, with no evidence other than they did just happen to be black, in a sport with a lot of black players in a society where most SJWs will cheerfully tell you that black people do tend to be disproportionately disadvantaged in the very way the charity is seeking to try and tackle.

As a further point, most seem to be glossing over the word 'potentially' in the comment. Everyone's treating it like he said they personally were nailed on to go to prison if it wasn't for football instead of simply clumsily muddling the personal with the general by making a general point right after mentioning names. That's not racist; that's just clumsy expression.

 

Edited March 27 by littleyellowbirdie

[Bobzilla 144]

24 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Don't be ridiculous. He was not actively peddling any negative stereotypes. He's accused of having singled out the players for being black, with no evidence other than they did just happen to be black, in a sport with a lot of black players in a society where most SJWs will cheerfully tell you that black people do tend to be disproportionately disadvantaged in the very way the charity is seeking to try and tackle.

As a further point, most seem to be glossing over the word 'potentially' in the comment. Everyone's treating it like he said they personally were nailed on to go to prison if it wasn't for football instead of simply clumsily muddling the personal with the general by making a general point right after mentioning names. That's not racist; that's just clumsy expression.

 

I feel sorry for you mate.  With views like that that would have been out of place 30 years ago, the world must be a very lonely place for you.  That or you’ve surrounded yourself with similar bell ends.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

7 minutes ago, Bobzilla said:

I feel sorry for you mate.  With views like that that would have been out of place 30 years ago, the world must be a very lonely place for you.  That or you’ve surrounded yourself with similar bell ends.

No need to feel sorry for me. It's notable the disparity between the absolutist and judgy proclamations on subjects like this online and discourse in the real world. As far as I can see the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

He didn't mean it as it has been taken. He has apologised. You're literally jumping in on a guy and condemning him as a racist  over a clumsy statement trying to raise money to improve people's chances in life, a lot of the benefactors of the work who are of the very group he's alleged to be racist against. You and others need to take a good look at yourself.

Edited March 27 by littleyellowbirdie

[JonnyJonnyRowe 446]

2 hours ago, shefcanary said:

OMG. 🤦‍♂️

When I first raised the issue of a lack of corporate governance at Board level, little did I think it would end up in this sort of a civil trial. 

I think the reason he has convinced himself that he's a 'saviour' is that he's, frankly, a narcissist with a bit of a god complex, not helped by the likelihood (look at the 'churn' we saw in non-playing staff) that he surrounded himself by people who were happy to blow smoke up his backside and never challenge anything that he said.

I think its also arrogant to assume that if these players hadn't been given a breakthrough here they wouldn't have found another route to success in football, albeit possibly a longer path, lets not forget that there are two Webber rejects playing regularly in the Prem today in Carlton Morris and Harry Toffolo, with Toffolo going down as far as League Two to get the experience, Ebou Adams another who dropped to the National League and is now impressing for Cardiff in the Championship.

In the case of Max Aarons there were apparently some people at the club who didn't believe he had the required physical attributes and wanted to release him, and some others who successfully challenged that perception and had faith in him, no idea what side Webber fell on that one. But Jamal Lewis had Northern Ireland U19 and U21 caps before he'd kicked a ball for our senior team, he was hardly footballs best kept secret.

Edited March 27 by JonnyJonnyRowe

[Midlands Yellow 3,986]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

HOW THE F*K DO INTENTIONS NOT MATTER WITH REGARD TO RACISM?!

Try this, his intentions were good!! 
 

 

[Midlands Yellow 3,986]

8 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

No need to feel sorry for me. It's notable the disparity between the absolutist and judgy proclamations on subjects like this online and discourse in the real world. As far as I can see the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

He didn't mean it as it has been taken. He has apologised. You're literally jumping in on a guy and condemning him as a racist  over a clumsy statement trying to raise money to improve people's chances in life, a lot of the benefactors of the work who are of the very group he's alleged to be racist against. You and others need to take a good look at yourself.

You have a mirror at home? 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

2 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Try this, his intentions were good!! 
 

 

There's something deeply wrong with you lot. Just a bunch of idiots having another pop because he once bit back at some abusive fans.

[Midlands Yellow 3,986]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

There's something deeply wrong with you lot. Just a bunch of idiots having another pop because he once bit back at some abusive fans.

I know! Stu is just misunderstood.

[Mengo 822]

29 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

There's something deeply wrong with you lot. Just a bunch of idiots having another pop because he once bit back at some abusive fans.

Quite honestly  Lyb, how much wine have you been drinking  , your just absoultely spouting out utter garbage. Have any early night  and take the day off tomorrow before you self implode. We look after each other on this forum. Chill out man ! I'm worried about your mindset.  Don't want you going down the same road as some of your heroes 🙃

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

3 hours ago, repman said:

There was a good thread on twitter from Times journalist Jonathan Northcroft.

https://x.com/JNorthcroft/status/1772313599463071909?s=20

I was struck by how Norwich City fans were singled out by the Times journalist for being very critical of the 'racism'. It prompted me to have a quick look at other forums and see how much interest there is in the 'racism' scandal here.

It inspired me to have a quick look at some other football forums to see what was thought elsewhere.

A search for the word 'Webber' on TWTD over the last few days: Nothing

A search for 'Webber' on the Liverpool forum over the last few days: Nothing (surprising given Webber explicitly mentioned Liverpool)

A search for 'Webber' on the Chelsea forum over the last few days: Nothing (surprising seeing as Sterling plays there)

So how is it that this story that's hitting all the nationals only seems to be inspiring grass roots fan condemnation as 'racist' at Norwich in spite of the national coverage?

Edited March 27 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

15 minutes ago, Mengo said:

Quite honestly  Lyb, how much wine have you been drinking  , your just absoultely spouting out utter garbage. Have any early night  and take the day off tomorrow before you self implode. We look after each other on this forum. Chill out man ! I'm worried about your mindset.  Don't want you going down the same road as some of your heroes 🙃

 

Coca cola tonight. It's the nastiness and mean-spiritedness behind the aspersions that bug me. We've had everything on here about Webber tonight, 'racist', 'narcissist', 'saviour complex' (paraphrasing), 'did he say it to deliberately damage the club?' It's really really ugly, mean-spirited that feels very much like the families' understandable upset which I do sympathise with, being hijacked and amplified for sensationalism from the journalists, justifying their existence from the anti-racism campaigners, and just a continued theme of spite towards the guy from a section of Norwich City fans.

Webber merits criticism for the comment, he was wrong to say it, it was right that he apologised, but this is ugly, and Webber isn't the source of the ugliness here.

Edited March 27 by littleyellowbirdie

[Mengo 822]

17 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Coca cola tonight. It's the nastiness and mean-spiritedness behind the aspersions that bug me. We've had everything on here about Webber tonight, 'racist', 'narcissist', 'saviour complex' (paraphrasing), 'did he say it to deliberately damage the club?' It's really really ugly, mean-spirited that feels very much like the families' understandable upset which I do sympathise with, being hijacked and amplified for sensationalism from the journalists, justifying their existence from the anti-racism campaigners, and just a continued theme of spite towards the guy from a section of Norwich City fans.

Webber merits criticism for the comment, he was wrong to say it, it was right that he apologised, but this is ugly, and Webber isn't the source of the ugliness here.

He just attracts controversy in whatever he does. Is he having personal problems, I don't know. It has always been about him. That's the way I see it. I don't personally like the guy and never have done. Call it a gut feeling. Unfortunately he thought he was bigger than the club. The fans are the mainstay of a football club , without them he doesn't get paid a handsome salary. He always seemed to me to think that the fans were secondary. Basically , I don't like the fella at all. You Really don't see any other DOF. SD whatever you want to call them being so vocal in the press. For me he brings all the attention on himself for the wrong reasons.  Not very smart to be honest. Maybe he will learn from this, somehow I don't think so. The ego is huge and certainly not justified. Why people on his sort of money can't just do a job and be appreciative, for what they get , beats me. He needs to wake up to reality. He's made an arsssśe of himself and let down the people who gave him a free to do whatever he liked. He's blown it , nothing more, nothing less. I'm off fo a beer now. This guy has commanded more of my time than I could ever imagine. Goodnight!

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

20 minutes ago, Mengo said:

He just attracts controversy in whatever he does. Is he having personal problems, I don't know. It has always been about him. That's the way I see it. I don't personally like the guy and never have done. Call it a gut feeling. Unfortunately he thought he was bigger than the club. The fans are the mainstay of a football club , without them he doesn't get paid a handsome salary. He always seemed to me to think that the fans were secondary. Basically , I don't like the fella at all. You Really don't see any other DOF. SD whatever you want to call them being so vocal in the press. For me he brings all the attention on himself for the wrong reasons.  Not very smart to be honest. Maybe he will learn from this, somehow I don't think so. The ego is huge and certainly not justified. Why people on his sort of money can't just do a job and be appreciative, for what they get , beats me. He needs to wake up to reality. He's made an arsssśe of himself and let down the people who gave him a free to do whatever he liked. He's blown it , nothing more, nothing less. I'm off fo a beer now. This guy has commanded more of my time than I could ever imagine. Goodnight!

 

Knapper seems to be following that approach. It garnered a fair bit of criticism for inaction and silence at the outset, but that seems to have gone away now results are heading the right way. I strongly suspect that it won't survive a downturn in results though.

[Monty13 2,234]

4 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I know! Stu is just misunderstood.

Pretty sure LYB is his account at this point lol

[dylanisabaddog 4,929]

12 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Apparently one of the families wants to take him to court. I actually hope they do as I'd really like to see how this plays out in a court of law.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/webber-sterling-aarons-lewis-kamara-32431441

You would like to see this in court. How exactly do you think that would benefit Norwich City?

If you had an ounce of common sense you would be hoping this goes away as soon as possible.