Wagner leaving in summer.

[Move Klose 303]

On 25/02/2024 at 10:26, Sufyellow said:

Why are some fans convinced he is leaving in the summer and someone new is coming in? Why would wagner go if he gets us in playoffs.

Even if we finish in the top 6 and fail to go up he will be gone. The only was hes keeping his job is if he takes us up (which he won't).

[Paul101 93]

8 hours ago, Indy said:

I think a massive part of that success wasn’t Lambert but his back room who by most accounts actually did a lot of the training and heavily involved in the tactics of games. 
This showed when he left to take charge without them! He’s hardly been a success since!

sum of the parts

they just all clicked Manager/staff/players/fans

[The Real Buh 3,446]

5 hours ago, hogesar said:

Depends if you think Webber had built a squad capable of competing with Southamptons, which cost 4x as much. If you think he did, then you must be desperate for a bit of "Stuart bitty" at this point...

We beat Southanpton in the premier league fairly recently. We lack courage as a club because our manager is not courageous.

[Capt. Pants 4,260]

Knapper has a decision to make, perhaps he's already made it. If Wagner gets us promoted obviously he will stay and rightly so. The complication lays if we narrowly miss out on the play-offs, or get beaten in them, we don't want to waste the summer transfer window and say the first 10 games of next season and then decide to sack him. 

The lack of support Wagner got in the January transfer window despite being a club chasing the play-offs says a lot about Knapper's lack of commitment to Wagner imo.

[Indy_Bones 441]

57 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Knapper has a decision to make, perhaps he's already made it. If Wagner gets us promoted obviously he will stay and rightly so. The complication lays if we narrowly miss out on the play-offs, or get beaten in them, we don't want to waste the summer transfer window and say the first 10 games of next season and then decide to sack him. 

The lack of support Wagner got in the January transfer window despite being a club chasing the play-offs says a lot about Knapper's lack of commitment to Wagner imo.

I actually think that even if we do get promoted via the play-offs, that the decision to retain Wagner or not would truthfully come down to whether or not Knapper would be able to get in any of his preferred targets. There's been strong speculation around Cuesta and that he was waiting until the summer to consider any possible offer, part of which may even come down to what league we are in, and I genuinely believe that if the opportunity is there, Knapper will seize it, thank Wagner for his work and look to develop the squad a different way.

I'd also argue, that even if we get the promotion AND retain Wagner, the football we've seen under his tenure would get us slaughtered in the Prem, and I've seen little evidence of likely change in tactics or approach from Wagner to suggest anything otherwise, even if we got some good new players in the summer.

The players appear to be backing Wagner which is a clear point in his favour, but much like Hughton, I can't take to his overall style of play, especially when we approach games like we did against Southampton, as in the Prem we'd be outclassed by most teams, and I can't stomach watching that defensive minded dross for 90 minutes each week, give me Lambert's gung-ho mentality, give me Farkeball, give me the Norwich under Stringer or Walker, but never again stuff like Hughton, or for that matter like Wagner far too often.

It's frustrating in a way, as like with Hughton, I don't dislike the guy at all (in fact Hughton presented himself superbly and spoke extremely well), but as much as I can appreciate the man behind the manager, I need to enjoy what I'm watching, and if we can genuinely get in an exciting coach like Cuesta who could get us playing in a more convincing and attractive way, I'd rather take that gamble and thank Wagner than simply hope for the best if we don't make a change...

[repman 635]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

Knapper has a decision to make, perhaps he's already made it. If Wagner gets us promoted obviously he will stay and rightly so. The complication lays if we narrowly miss out on the play-offs, or get beaten in them, we don't want to waste the summer transfer window and say the first 10 games of next season and then decide to sack him. 

The lack of support Wagner got in the January transfer window despite being a club chasing the play-offs says a lot about Knapper's lack of commitment to Wagner imo.

I think there was plenty of reasons for this though.

The first one being that when January came around we were 5 points off the playoffs and our underlying numbers point to us being worse than the results. It didn't strike me as a situation where you are only maybe 1 piece away from success.

Also, the summer window was us going pretty much all in (or at least as much as we could), with parachute payments coming to an end we signed 5/6 players who are going to have next to no resale value. All of them, bar Sainz, will be on reasonably big wages and there's a need for them to deliver now as they've more than likely already reached their peaks. 

From the interview he did it's clear Knapper already has one eye on next season, as any SD should. But the way the squad was constructed certainly wasn't one prepped well for the future. There's also the possibility that Knapper was told that this season was basically a free hit and not to feel pressured into doing too much, important to remember that had all gone to plan he still wouldn't have taken over fully yet.

 

 

[hogesar 9,704]

56 minutes ago, repman said:

I think there was plenty of reasons for this though.

The first one being that when January came around we were 5 points off the playoffs and our underlying numbers point to us being worse than the results. It didn't strike me as a situation where you are only maybe 1 piece away from success.

Also, the summer window was us going pretty much all in (or at least as much as we could), with parachute payments coming to an end we signed 5/6 players who are going to have next to no resale value. All of them, bar Sainz, will be on reasonably big wages and there's a need for them to deliver now as they've more than likely already reached their peaks. 

From the interview he did it's clear Knapper already has one eye on next season, as any SD should. But the way the squad was constructed certainly wasn't one prepped well for the future. There's also the possibility that Knapper was told that this season was basically a free hit and not to feel pressured into doing too much, important to remember that had all gone to plan he still wouldn't have taken over fully yet.

 

 

This can all be true whilst acknowledging that Knapper weakened the squad in the middle of a play off push.

He may well have his reasons but its still true and something that has actively impacted us already.

[hogesar 9,704]

2 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

We beat Southanpton in the premier league fairly recently. We lack courage as a club because our manager is not courageous.

Attanassio and Knapper out then!

[repman 635]

42 minutes ago, hogesar said:

This can all be true whilst acknowledging that Knapper weakened the squad in the middle of a play off push.

He may well have his reasons but it’s still true and something that has actively impacted us already.

The squad certainly isn’t as deep but I think it’s a bit soon to say it’s weaker. I don’t really think Placheta, Forshaw or Hwang were adding massive value. The SvH/Idah swap shouldn’t be a massive change unless we lose Sargent for an extended period. 

I don’t really see how it’s impacted us already either. 

[Fen Canary 847]

7 hours ago, Indy_Bones said:

I actually think that even if we do get promoted via the play-offs, that the decision to retain Wagner or not would truthfully come down to whether or not Knapper would be able to get in any of his preferred targets. There's been strong speculation around Cuesta and that he was waiting until the summer to consider any possible offer, part of which may even come down to what league we are in, and I genuinely believe that if the opportunity is there, Knapper will seize it, thank Wagner for his work and look to develop the squad a different way.

I'd also argue, that even if we get the promotion AND retain Wagner, the football we've seen under his tenure would get us slaughtered in the Prem, and I've seen little evidence of likely change in tactics or approach from Wagner to suggest anything otherwise, even if we got some good new players in the summer.

The players appear to be backing Wagner which is a clear point in his favour, but much like Hughton, I can't take to his overall style of play, especially when we approach games like we did against Southampton, as in the Prem we'd be outclassed by most teams, and I can't stomach watching that defensive minded dross for 90 minutes each week, give me Lambert's gung-ho mentality, give me Farkeball, give me the Norwich under Stringer or Walker, but never again stuff like Hughton, or for that matter like Wagner far too often.

It's frustrating in a way, as like with Hughton, I don't dislike the guy at all (in fact Hughton presented himself superbly and spoke extremely well), but as much as I can appreciate the man behind the manager, I need to enjoy what I'm watching, and if we can genuinely get in an exciting coach like Cuesta who could get us playing in a more convincing and attractive way, I'd rather take that gamble and thank Wagner than simply hope for the best if we don't make a change...

How do you know Cuesta would be an exciting manager when he’s never been in charge of a first team before? He could be a total flop as a manager, much more suited to an assistant role 

[sgncfc 1,233]

21 hours ago, Indy_Bones said:

I actually think that even if we do get promoted via the play-offs, that the decision to retain Wagner or not would truthfully come down to whether or not Knapper would be able to get in any of his preferred targets. There's been strong speculation around Cuesta and that he was waiting until the summer to consider any possible offer, part of which may even come down to what league we are in, and I genuinely believe that if the opportunity is there, Knapper will seize it, thank Wagner for his work and look to develop the squad a different way.

I'd also argue, that even if we get the promotion AND retain Wagner, the football we've seen under his tenure would get us slaughtered in the Prem, and I've seen little evidence of likely change in tactics or approach from Wagner to suggest anything otherwise, even if we got some good new players in the summer.

The players appear to be backing Wagner which is a clear point in his favour, but much like Hughton, I can't take to his overall style of play, especially when we approach games like we did against Southampton, as in the Prem we'd be outclassed by most teams, and I can't stomach watching that defensive minded dross for 90 minutes each week, give me Lambert's gung-ho mentality, give me Farkeball, give me the Norwich under Stringer or Walker, but never again stuff like Hughton, or for that matter like Wagner far too often.

It's frustrating in a way, as like with Hughton, I don't dislike the guy at all (in fact Hughton presented himself superbly and spoke extremely well), but as much as I can appreciate the man behind the manager, I need to enjoy what I'm watching, and if we can genuinely get in an exciting coach like Cuesta who could get us playing in a more convincing and attractive way, I'd rather take that gamble and thank Wagner than simply hope for the best if we don't make a change...

Absolutely this. I'd go even further and say that I'd rather watch a Cuesta side in the Championship than a Wagner side in the Premier League.

[BroadstairsR 2,183]

14 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

How do you know Cuesta would be an exciting manager when he’s never been in charge of a first team before? He could be a total flop as a manager, much more suited to an assistant role 

All (great) managers have to start somewhere.

All managerial appointments are a risk.

Edited February 27 by BroadstairsR

[Nuff Said 5,147]

15 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

How do you know Cuesta would be an exciting manager when he’s never been in charge of a first team before? He could be a total flop as a manager, much more suited to an assistant role 

Peter Grant suddenly springs to mind. 😱

[Capt. Pants 4,260]

Arteta was assistant once. Not saying Cuesta is the man, but everyone has to start somewhere. Even old Binny McKenna was part of Solksjaer's coaching team.

[Sufyellow 222]

On 25/02/2024 at 21:50, Fen Canary said:

Is being able to adjust your tactics to suit the opponent not a good thing? As we saw with Farke doggedly sticking to Plan A even if it isn’t working is incredibly naive. It was great when we had one of the best squads in the league, it was suicidal when we had one of the weaker ones in the league above. 

It's really just lazy to say that about Farke, but if that's what you remember so be it. I remember him trying 5 at the back in the prem,  I remember him dropping Tettey into a back 3 and go all out attacking when chasing games in the championship. It's the same with Wagner to be fair. 

[Sufyellow 222]

On 26/02/2024 at 00:00, littleyellowbirdie said:

Thing is, I'm not sure it was really new evidence. Like you said, it was back to the only plan that had ever worked, against one of the few teams where it had a decent chance of working. Everything that has happened since has had the feeling of a general recognition that if we're ever to establish in the Premier League it will need:

-More money

-A manager who puts more emphasis on being difficult to beat than trying to overwhelm teams with attacking gusto that can't be overwhelmed.

At the time, I was very much of the persuasion that trips to the Premier League should have just been treated as big pay days anyway accompanied by a year of losing football, accept we're probably going to go down again, and focus on trying to get up again, and just hope we pull off a miracle. In retrospect though I think that's underestimating how difficult it is to get to the Premier League in the first place, so more emphasis needed to be put on building something that could also survive in the Premier League as well as the championship without too much rebuilding so we weren't simply throwing away Premier League seasons. I think Smith's record fitted that brief and I also think Wagner's record fits that brief; Farke's didn't. But good luck to him in seeking to change that record at Leeds.

Smiths record fitted that Brief! He spent 100 plus million and kept them up on a faulty goal line call. He then spent more and got sacked. Wagners tactics and set up would get destroyed in the Premier League, part of the problem the fans have I expect. 

[Sufyellow 222]

On 26/02/2024 at 15:24, Move Klose said:

Even if we finish in the top 6 and fail to go up he will be gone. The only was hes keeping his job is if he takes us up (which he won't).

But that was the original question,  why do you think that ? 

[Sufyellow 222]

On 26/02/2024 at 18:51, Capt. Pants said:

Knapper has a decision to make, perhaps he's already made it. If Wagner gets us promoted obviously he will stay and rightly so. The complication lays if we narrowly miss out on the play-offs, or get beaten in them, we don't want to waste the summer transfer window and say the first 10 games of next season and then decide to sack him. 

The lack of support Wagner got in the January transfer window despite being a club chasing the play-offs says a lot about Knapper's lack of commitment to Wagner imo.

No it doesn't,  it says alot about we are heavily in debt and have no money 

[hogesar 9,704]

21 hours ago, repman said:

The squad certainly isn’t as deep but I think it’s a bit soon to say it’s weaker. I don’t really think Placheta, Forshaw or Hwang were adding massive value. The SvH/Idah swap shouldn’t be a massive change unless we lose Sargent for an extended period. 

I don’t really see how it’s impacted us already either. 

I believe in the last 2 away game a fit and firing Idah from the bench could have been a difference maker, as he's proven at multiple times.

We now have an unfit, relatively slow back-to-goal type player in SVH who I dont think would have had close to the same impact.

[Sufyellow 222]

22 hours ago, hogesar said:

Attanassio and Knapper out then!

To be fair he obviously forgot the humiliation at Southampton, when it should of been 6 or7

[Haus 259]

14 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

No it doesn't,  it says alot about we are heavily in debt and have no money 

We supposedly have the 4th highest wage bill in the division

[Sufyellow 222]

1 minute ago, Haus said:

We supposedly have the 4th highest wage bill in the division

Yep, we sold 20 million worth of players in the summer to help fund that, we will do the same again this summer. You don't think we didn't have to sell big Andy for 10 million 2 hrs before the window closed, then had time to replace him with Bathh

[RobJames 881]

38 minutes ago, Haus said:

We supposedly have the 4th highest wage bill in the division

'Supposedly'. Guesswork, that's all.

Come back when you have verifiable figures.

[Indy 3,307]

1 hour ago, RobJames said:

'Supposedly'. Guesswork, that's all.

Come back when you have verifiable figures.

Pretty much every search you make you can find figures of the estimated wages, we’re ranked 4th in most with a wage bill of 23 million.

Not hard to accept, even if it’s guesswork by those in the know reporting the wages! So pretty accurate and will be confirmed by tge accounts for this season! Not sure what your point of verification really is!

[The Real Buh 3,446]

Wagner can stay and have a go at being women’s management position if he likes?

He can win against Chesham United and then change the whole team to match Haywards Town Heath rather than imparting our way of playing on them.