match thread *official lappinitup match thread Peacocks V Canaries*

[jaberry2 554]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

He needs a game or two rest for me, considering he's been playing full 90s even in most of the cup ties. Just looks mentally a little bit behind.

Yes I agree. It highlights the lack of quality of depth we have. Its a shame Wagner has really stunted Gibb's development as a central midfielder as he should of been adequate cover. 

[hogesar 9,720]

43 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

It wasn't as bad as you’re making out. Bamford cleverly positioned himself between Duffy and Stacy... More blame should be laid at the feet of Sainz. Should've been on top of James and prevented the cross. 

As a centre half, you can't follow the striker everywhere. You have to defend area and hold position too. It's a balance. I agree Duffy should do better, and he'll think that too. But scapegoating him has to stop. He was brilliant against West Brom. 

Duffy doesn't get "scapegoated" - that is often left for Ben Gibson. Duffy had a song sung about him at the beginning of the season but a run of awful individual errors rightly quietened that down.

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

Now the dust has settled (and I think overall we played well and on another day could/should have scored) but I do wonder if starting Barnes with Sargent may have been more effective overall.

Reasoning is that clearly Sainz and Rowe had poor matches - I wonder if that's because Barnes tends to occupy the defense more on and off the ball and this creates more space/openings for our wingers etc.

All that said Nunez played well but Sara didn't really shine at No. 10.

Just a thought - its a team game after all.

[jaberry2 554]

3 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Now the dust has settled (and I think overall we played well and on another day could/should have scored) but I do wonder if starting Barnes with Sargent may have been more effective overall.

Reasoning is that clearly Sainz and Rowe had poor matches - I wonder if that's because Barnes tends to occupy the defense more on and off the ball and this creates more space/openings for our wingers etc.

All that said Nunez played well but Sara didn't really shine at No. 10.

Just a thought - its a team game after all.

Rowe had a very poor game and continuously gave away the ball. Always kept on with the hope of him providing some on the ball brilliance.

In hindsight I probably would of started Barnes.

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

2 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

Rowe had a very poor game and continuously gave away the ball. Always kept on with the hope of him providing some on the ball brilliance.

In hindsight I probably would of started Barnes.

Perhaps we should try this on Sunday for the starting line up - Barnes for Sara (he needs a rest anyway). Obviously loads of subs possible later!

[TheGunnShow 5,983]

Just now, Yellow Fever said:

Perhaps we should try this on Sunday for the starting line up - Barnes for Sara (he needs a rest anyway). Obviously loads of subs possible later!

To be honest, I'd replace Sara with Gibbs - put his energy to good use.

[jaberry2 554]

Just now, TheGunnShow said:

To be honest, I'd replace Sara with Gibbs - put his energy to good use.

Gibbs has looked woeful this season when given a brief opportunity. As long as he plays Central / Deep midfield and not AM.

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

4 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

To be honest, I'd replace Sara with Gibbs - put his energy to good use.

No objection - I suppose the point I'm making is that if your No. 10 isn't creating chaos / pulling the defense around / having an off day then it's difficult for all the front line.

Edited January 25 by Yellow Fever

[TheGunnShow 5,983]

2 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

Gibbs has looked woeful this season when given a brief opportunity. As long as he plays Central / Deep midfield and not AM.

Precisely, I'd tell him to go box-to-box, not be the number 10.

[jaberry2 554]

7 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Precisely, I'd tell him to go box-to-box, not be the number 10.

Can you pass on your comments to Wagner please.

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 hour ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

It wasn't as bad as you’re making out. Bamford cleverly positioned himself between Duffy and Stacy... More blame should be laid at the feet of Sainz. Should've been on top of James and prevented the cross. 

As a centre half, you can't follow the striker everywhere. You have to defend area and hold position too. It's a balance. I agree Duffy should do better, and he'll think that too. But scapegoating him has to stop. He was brilliant against West Brom. 

It's not scapegoating, and it was every bit as bad as I made out. You describe it as if Bamford ghosted into position behind Duffy and he just failed to check his shoulder. Still pretty criminal for an experienced centre-half, but it does happen. Duffy had the advance knowledge of KNOWING 100% that Bamford was behind him because Bamford began his run right in front of Duffy and jogged past him to take up his position. Duffy ignored him and continued to mark air. You can argue that maybe Stacey could have given him a shout, but Stacey had their number 30 to keep his eye on, had he charged in to cover Duffy's incompetence, then James would have had an easy unmarked target to aim at at the far post.

It was dreadful, dreadful defending. And not for the first time from him this season. And when he is reportedly taking home more than every other player but Gibson and is certainly a top 10 defender in terms of remuneration, we should be holding him to a higher standard.

[shefcanary 2,443]

14 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

Not sure what Gibson is arguing about there, clear free kick and yellow card

He wasn't arguing about his booking, he accepted that. He was just pointing out to the referee that Sara got fouled in a very similar manner to the one he committed just 15 seconds before, but no action was taken. Just trying to to get ref on our side.

[In my blood 37]

37 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

It's not scapegoating, and it was every bit as bad as I made out. You describe it as if Bamford ghosted into position behind Duffy and he just failed to check his shoulder. Still pretty criminal for an experienced centre-half, but it does happen. Duffy had the advance knowledge of KNOWING 100% that Bamford was behind him because Bamford began his run right in front of Duffy and jogged past him to take up his position. Duffy ignored him and continued to mark air. You can argue that maybe Stacey could have given him a shout, but Stacey had their number 30 to keep his eye on, had he charged in to cover Duffy's incompetence, then James would have had an easy unmarked target to aim at at the far post.

It was dreadful, dreadful defending. And not for the first time from him this season. And when he is reportedly taking home more than every other player but Gibson and is certainly a top 10 defender in terms of remuneration, we should be holding him to a higher standard.

Sorry, can't fully agree with that summary. Before the cross came in, Nunez was physically pulled away from James giving him a fraction more time. Could have been a foul but not seen or ignored by the officials.

Duffy? If he steps back then Bamford runs across him and wins the ball. Stacey partly culpable as he should cover the immediate threat.  Duffy was in the correct position.

That's how I was coached by Mr Appleby (Appleton) West Earlham Junior school under 11's late 60's!

Edited January 25 by In my blood

[shefcanary 2,443]

11 hours ago, JamieNorfolk said:

I was at the game - I tell you what, leeds fans chanting the same two lines for 90 minutes was unbearable. 

I was told last night they do this because all away fans usually take the **** out of them by changing the words and taking the **** first (we tried but never stood a chance of being heard once they responded), so they show they can't give a ****! But singing WACCOE still, nearly 50 years after the event, man that is some massive chip on their shoulder. 

Other than that, can't fault the effort of our lads but Sarge / Rowe / Sainz all had an off night - with only one of them on song we would have gotten something from the game, maybe a win if Duffy had marked Bamford instead of being more concerned about Summerville. Duffy didn't switch off, he just made the wrong decision in not trusting Stacey to mark Summerville then didn't communicate that fact with Gibson who naturally in that void assumed Duffy had his man marked.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,295]

1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

It's not scapegoating, and it was every bit as bad as I made out. You describe it as if Bamford ghosted into position behind Duffy and he just failed to check his shoulder. Still pretty criminal for an experienced centre-half, but it does happen. Duffy had the advance knowledge of KNOWING 100% that Bamford was behind him because Bamford began his run right in front of Duffy and jogged past him to take up his position. Duffy ignored him and continued to mark air. You can argue that maybe Stacey could have given him a shout, but Stacey had their number 30 to keep his eye on, had he charged in to cover Duffy's incompetence, then James would have had an easy unmarked target to aim at at the far post.

It was dreadful, dreadful defending. And not for the first time from him this season. And when he is reportedly taking home more than every other player but Gibson and is certainly a top 10 defender in terms of remuneration, we should be holding him to a higher standard.

I think what is being forgotten is, it was a peach of a ball from James. Slightly short and Duffy clears. I don’t think you can expect Duffy to be stood on Bamfords toes in that situation.

[hogesar 9,720]

13 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

I was told last night they do this because all away fans usually take the **** out of them by changing the words and taking the **** first (we tried but never stood a chance of being heard once they responded), so they show they can't give a ****! But singing WACCOE still, nearly 50 years after the event, man that is some massive chip on their shoulder. 

Other than that, can't fault the effort of our lads but Sarge / Rowe / Sainz all had an off night - with only one of them on song we would have gotten something from the game, maybe a win if Duffy had marked Bamford instead of being more concerned about Summerville. Duffy didn't switch off, he just made the wrong decision in not trusting Stacey to mark Summerville then didn't communicate that fact with Gibson who naturally in that void assumed Duffy had his man marked.

As did Sara to be fair.

Interestingly, Mclean the best central midfielder on the pitch (A lot of Leeds fans now understand why Farke wanted him pre-season, according to social media!) 😉 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,295]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Duffy doesn't get "scapegoated" - that is often left for Ben Gibson. Duffy had a song sung about him at the beginning of the season but a run of awful individual errors rightly quietened that down.

It’s not right though is it. He’s also put in some really good performances. The way he’s hammered for a slight mistake, is scapegoating. Same as Barnes. 

Gibson is also scapegoated. Not that he deserves it, but he is a player that’s done nothing for 2.5 years! You love Gibson (along with McLean) because it’s controversial. The way you defend Gibson, you should also defend Duffy.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Perhaps we should try this on Sunday for the starting line up - Barnes for Sara (he needs a rest anyway). Obviously loads of subs possible later!

I really wouldn’t move away from the set up that gave us the highest degree of control we’ve had in a game for ages, against a decent side. A few players had an off night going forward but that line up and shape is the one we should be persevering with.

Edited January 25 by Jim Smith

[DraytonBoy 160]

I don't think they did too much wrong last night, basic errors for the goal and Sainz, Rowe and Sara simply weren't on it.

[Ken Hairy 3,779]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

He wasn't arguing about his booking, he accepted that. He was just pointing out to the referee that Sara got fouled in a very similar manner to the one he committed just 15 seconds before, but no action was taken. Just trying to to get ref on our side.

Ah, fair enough 👍

[canarybubbles 1,936]

The system looked fine to me, but all our key forward players (Sainz, Sara, Rowe, Sargent) played poorly by their standards. Such a shame because I felt McLean and Nunez were absolutely on top of their game, and both Dimi and Stacey were good going forward. I'd personally try the same set-up again.

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 hour ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

I think what is being forgotten is, it was a peach of a ball from James. Slightly short and Duffy clears. I don’t think you can expect Duffy to be stood on Bamfords toes in that situation.

No, but I can expect one of the league's highest paid players to be actively marking him. He even steps slightly forward after the cross comes in, another shocking error for someone with his experience and pay-packet. It was just awful, awful defending. And it cost us a point. And it's not the first time Duffy errors have cost us points.

[canarydan23 4,060]

Just now, canarybubbles said:

The system looked fine to me, but all our key forward players (Sainz, Sara, Rowe, Sargent) played poorly by their standards. Such a shame because I felt McLean and Nunez were absolutely on top of their game, and both Dimi and Stacey were good going forward. I'd personally try the same set-up again.

Completely agree. It worked really well yesterday, it was just one moment of Coco the Clown defending that stopped us getting a clean sheet, one moment of Coco the Clown finishing that stopped us scoring a tap in and bad luck that all our attacking players had a bad game on a day when Nunez and McLean smashed it out of the park with their remits.

I doubt we'll have another match where quality players like Rowe, Sara, Sargent and Sainz all have poor games on the same day. You can almost guarantee that at least one of them will do something to cause an opponent trouble.

Same team v Liverpool for me subject to fitness issues and get some momentum going with this group.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,295]

20 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

No, but I can expect one of the league's highest paid players to be actively marking him. He even steps slightly forward after the cross comes in, another shocking error for someone with his experience and pay-packet. It was just awful, awful defending. And it cost us a point. And it's not the first time Duffy errors have cost us points.

I respect your opinion, and as I said Duffy will be disappointed. But I think your criticism is OTT.

Edited January 25 by Creedence Clearwater Couto

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

9 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Completely agree. It worked really well yesterday, it was just one moment of Coco the Clown defending that stopped us getting a clean sheet, one moment of Coco the Clown finishing that stopped us scoring a tap in and bad luck that all our attacking players had a bad game on a day when Nunez and McLean smashed it out of the park with their remits.

ou can almost guarantee that at least one of them will do something to cause an opponent trouble.

Same team v Liverpool for me subject to fitness issues and get some momentum going with this group.

Try it again by all means at Liverpool. I suspect Liverpool will have much the same team that beat Fulham.

As they say one swallow a summer or (winter) does not make.

However, if despite your "I doubt we'll have another match where quality players like Rowe, Sara, Sargent and Sainz all have poor games on the same day. You can almost guarantee that at least one of them will do something to cause an opponent trouble."  if it does happen again then we should query the reasons.

It is after-all all about the balance of the team - both defense, attack and creativity. Sargent by the way I thought had a reasonable game - didn't get any service.  Idah at the end always seems to take 1 touch too many or has a moments hesitation when it matters.

 

[hogesar 9,720]

2 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

It’s not right though is it. He’s also put in some really good performances. The way he’s hammered for a slight mistake, is scapegoating. Same as Barnes. 

Gibson is also scapegoated. Not that he deserves it, but he is a player that’s done nothing for 2.5 years! You love Gibson (along with McLean) because it’s controversial. The way you defend Gibson, you should also defend Duffy.

Hahahaah I don't love either of them because it's controversial.

Loving McLean isn't controversial amongst people who know football, by the way. By that I mean managers, coaches, current and ex pro players 

Duffy has had some excellent games this season but he can also be rightfully criticised for some awful ones.

You've made no point other than a thinly veiled personal jab. All from the guy who predicted 10 points with such confidence back in October..

[hogesar 9,720]

1 hour ago, canarybubbles said:

The system looked fine to me, but all our key forward players (Sainz, Sara, Rowe, Sargent) played poorly by their standards. Such a shame because I felt McLean and Nunez were absolutely on top of their game, and both Dimi and Stacey were good going forward. I'd personally try the same set-up again.

Yeah, can't disagree with any of that.

[Thumbbass 319]

1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

No, but I can expect one of the league's highest paid players to be actively marking him. He even steps slightly forward after the cross comes in, another shocking error for someone with his experience and pay-packet. It was just awful, awful defending. And it cost us a point. And it's not the first time Duffy errors have cost us points.

Prior to the ball coming in Duffy hands over Bamford I think, you see him do it on the highlights. James should have never had as long as he did to be able to play that ball, we had two players on him and one should have closed the space but both looked scared of getting skinned. It happens, I don't think there is an individual error as such by anyone, more disorganisation of 4 players. 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,295]

55 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Hahahaah I don't love either of them because it's controversial.

Loving McLean isn't controversial amongst people who know football, by the way. By that I mean managers, coaches, current and ex pro players 

Duffy has had some excellent games this season but he can also be rightfully criticised for some awful ones.

You've made no point other than a thinly veiled personal jab. All from the guy who predicted 10 points with such confidence back in October..

Mega lolz

[hogesar 9,720]

10 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Mega lolz

Roughly in keeping with expectations. Although I still think the 10 points one was one of my favourites. What did we get in the end? Over double?