The Match Attendance Conundrum

[essex canary 497]

The £10 adult charge for our Friday Night match at Hull next month raises some interesting issues.

Hull typically declare a 20,000 attendance in a stadium slightly smaller than ours around the same as our current declared attendance.

For home supporters though our ratio of Season Tickets to casuals is around 90% as compared to 40% for them. 

It could therefore be that they have 1,000 absent Season Ticket Holders per game whilst we have 3,000.  Consequently our actual attendance is probably only 20% ahead of theirs.

It doesn't seem logical for Hull to have halved their casual prices for this match as logically the number of casual attendees is hardly likely to double. Essentially they must have done it to some extent to create a feel good factor which can perhaps help the atmosphere. Also as their number of casuals is likely double ours most of them are presumably keen to be there whilst the excess capacity doubtless makes it easier to attend with their friends.

What lessons should NCFC learn? 

 

 

[dylanisabaddog 4,931]

The only thing that can be said with any certainty is that some people weren't there 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,434]

This show the availability for a casual ticket in the upper Barclay . Trying to get a ticket for a family member . 
These seats don’t need to be sold for £10. 
If you are harking back to the cup game then that is a different argument . 
The lesson here is that the block will sell out at full price for Saturdays game. There is no need to reduce prices 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Graham Paddons Beard

[essex canary 497]

2 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

This show the availability for a casual ticket in the upper Barclay . Trying to get a ticket for a family member . 
These seats don’t need to be sold for £10. 
If you are harking back to the cup game then that a different argument . 
The lesson here is that the block will sell out at full price for Saturdays game. There is no need to reduce prices 

According to our Ticket Office Manager people don't like upper tiers. They may, at least some of them, prefer seats discarded by season ticket holders.

[Capt. Pants 4,250]

Trouble is you can't sell someoneelse's seat if you don't know if they're are going to be there or not. 

Although they must know which fans aren't attending and if it's the same offenders perhaps send them a warning that their seat could be sold if they don't turn up or make their seat available 🤪

Edited December 19, 2023 by Capt. Pants

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

13 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Trouble is you can't sell someoneelse's seat if you don't know if they're are going to be there or not. 

Although they must know which fans aren't attending and if it's the same offenders perhaps send them a warning that their seat could be sold if they don't turn up or make their seat available 🤪

People pay for their seat, it’s their right to choose if they turn up or not. football sometimes has to take a back seat to more important things in life  and it’s down to my discretion if I wish to make use of the buy back system the club has or not. Sometimes you just forget if you have other priorities. 
 

if the club want bigger crowds then they can build a new stand above the city stand. If spectators want a regular ticket they can join the season ticket waiting list. 

[GenerationA47 754]

1 hour ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

People pay for their seat, it’s their right to choose if they turn up or not. football sometimes has to take a back seat to more important things in life  and it’s down to my discretion if I wish to make use of the buy back system the club has or not. Sometimes you just forget if you have other priorities. 
 

if the club want bigger crowds then they can build a new stand above the city stand. If spectators want a regular ticket they can join the season ticket waiting list. 

The pure commercial mentality triumphing over support for the team- because I can afford the few hundred quid and 5 minutes’ effort to renew it each year, to hell with the casual hoipolloi and their youngsters who don’t have cash for a ST but might want to experience a league game seated together (when there’s a danger they might even give vocal support to the players)

[cornish sam 954]

15 hours ago, essex canary said:

The £10 adult charge for our Friday Night match at Hull next month raises some interesting issues.

Hull typically declare a 20,000 attendance in a stadium slightly smaller than ours around the same as our current declared attendance.

For home supporters though our ratio of Season Tickets to casuals is around 90% as compared to 40% for them. 

It could therefore be that they have 1,000 absent Season Ticket Holders per game whilst we have 3,000.  Consequently our actual attendance is probably only 20% ahead of theirs.

It doesn't seem logical for Hull to have halved their casual prices for this match as logically the number of casual attendees is hardly likely to double. Essentially they must have done it to some extent to create a feel good factor which can perhaps help the atmosphere. Also as their number of casuals is likely double ours most of them are presumably keen to be there whilst the excess capacity doubtless makes it easier to attend with their friends.

What lessons should NCFC learn? 

 

 

The factor you're missing here is that it's a Friday night match in the middle of winter on sky, the casuals therefore have less incentive to attend so the attendance would be lower than their average without this. Whether or not it would be half I don't know....

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

19 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

The factor you're missing here is that it's a Friday night match in the middle of winter on sky, the casuals therefore have less incentive to attend so the attendance would be lower than their average without this. Whether or not it would be half I don't know....

…ah, but Essex does as he knows all!

Of course you are right - a Friday night game in the middle of January is not really one for the neutrals or casuals, without a prod.  And like it or not, we’re not a massive draw for people in Hull.

I thought about going but the last train back to London seems to be at the dizzy time of 19:30, so that’s a gonner.

[essex canary 497]

2 hours ago, cornish sam said:

The factor you're missing here is that it's a Friday night match in the middle of winter on sky, the casuals therefore have less incentive to attend so the attendance would be lower than their average without this. Whether or not it would be half I don't know....

When have NCFC reacted to such circumstances with a discount? If they credited season ticket holders accordingly it would effectively wipe out the 3% rise in Season Ticket prices they are mooting.

[essex canary 497]

4 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

People pay for their seat, it’s their right to choose if they turn up or not. football sometimes has to take a back seat to more important things in life  and it’s down to my discretion if I wish to make use of the buy back system the club has or not. Sometimes you just forget if you have other priorities. 
 

if the club want bigger crowds then they can build a new stand above the city stand. If spectators want a regular ticket they can join the season ticket waiting list. 

We could have a 35,000 capacity stadium, announce a 35,000 attendance whilst still having 5,000 empty seats. Is that a good strategy?

[cornish sam 954]

28 minutes ago, essex canary said:

When have NCFC reacted to such circumstances with a discount? If they credited season ticket holders accordingly it would effectively wipe out the 3% rise in Season Ticket prices they are mooting.

They don't need to because the variable income is so relatively low... 

[essex canary 497]

2 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

They don't need to because the variable income is so relatively low... 

Spreadsheet  politician style short term logic. Lack of goodwill bites eventually. 

[cornish sam 954]

2 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Spreadsheet  politician style short term logic. Lack of goodwill bites eventually. 

Or alternatively, business being run as a business... Whilst football clubs aren't a "typical" business, they are still a business. At the moment, despite the malcontent, there is still a waiting list for season tickets and we do still sell out most casual tickets for l ague matches. For the cup matches they are doing incentives like kids for a quid which shows that if the situation for league matches changes then they would most likely be going down the incentive route to encourage people into the ground when appropriate...

[essex canary 497]

2 hours ago, cornish sam said:

Or alternatively, business being run as a business... Whilst football clubs aren't a "typical" business, they are still a business. At the moment, despite the malcontent, there is still a waiting list for season tickets and we do still sell out most casual tickets for l ague matches. For the cup matches they are doing incentives like kids for a quid which shows that if the situation for league matches changes then they would most likely be going down the incentive route to encourage people into the ground when appropriate...

If I was buying from a second hand car salesman I would look to use one that values repeat business rather than one that doesn't.

[Greavsy 2,415]

https://www.instagram.com/p/C09lgoKOJ_D/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Hope that link works....

[GMF 747]

6 hours ago, cornish sam said:

.At the moment, despite the malcontent, there is still a waiting list for season tickets and we do still sell out most casual tickets for l ague matches.

I’ve challenged this statement before and it depends upon your definition of a waiting list.

For starters, there’s fans who’ve been on the waiting list for a while, simply want seats in specific areas, the lower Barclay being the obvious one. There’s also fans wanting seats together, finding a pair is difficult enough, but some want three, four or five, hence why they might be waiting for a while.

If you want a single seat and don’t mind where it is, then you’re almost certainly able to get one, after the third deadline has passed, as there’s always fans who don’t renew.

[Unthink road 132]

Surely with modern health and safety measures, actual attendance is vital. There is never a precise value, but being 5000 out is strange. 

Also isn't it falsifying figures in regard to any potential investment?

[essex canary 497]

22 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C09lgoKOJ_D/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Hope that link works....

95% based on declared attendance. Almost certainly below 90% based on recent actual attendances.

[essex canary 497]

6 minutes ago, GMF said:

I’ve challenged this statement before and it depends upon your definition of a waiting list.

For starters, there’s fans who’ve been on the waiting list for a while, simply want seats in specific areas, the lower Barclay being the obvious one. There’s also fans wanting seats together, finding a pair is difficult enough, but some want three, four or five, hence why they might be waiting for a while.

If you want a single seat and don’t mind where it is, then you’re almost certainly able to get one, after the third deadline has passed, as there’s always fans who don’t renew.

Couldn’t the Club be proactive in putting waiting list fans in contact with ST holders who are leaving seats vacant?

[Greavsy 2,415]

3 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Couldn’t the Club be proactive in putting waiting list fans in contact with ST holders who are leaving seats vacant?

No GDPR breach there.

Why would the club do that, when they have tickets of their own to sell? 

[Greavsy 2,415]

7 minutes ago, essex canary said:

95% based on declared attendance. Almost certainly below 90% based on recent actual attendances.

Based on tickets sold / income received for said tickets.

 

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

If a season ticket holder doesn't turn up the club should physically remove the seat, mail it to the season ticket holder and make them put it back whilst explaining why they didn't turn up. If they don't have a doctors note they should be fined £5 and the proceeds should go to Zoe Webber and Tom Smith.

I'm sure this will eradicate any problem.

[Greavsy 2,415]

4 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

If a season ticket holder doesn't turn up the club should physically remove the seat, mail it to the season ticket holder and make them put it back whilst explaining why they didn't turn up. If they don't have a doctors note they should be fined £5 and the proceeds should go to Zoe Webber and Tom Smith.

I'm sure this will eradicate any problem.

Or a letter signed "my mum" ? 

[essex canary 497]

33 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

If a season ticket holder doesn't turn up the club should physically remove the seat, mail it to the season ticket holder and make them put it back whilst explaining why they didn't turn up. If they don't have a doctors note they should be fined £5 and the proceeds should go to Zoe Webber and Tom Smith.

I'm sure this will eradicate any problem.

Perhaps 2 out of 10 at a push. How about contact persistent non attenders and either persuade them to swap places with a waiting list applicant or agree a sub-letting agreement for a preset period.

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

1 minute ago, essex canary said:

Perhaps 2 out of 10 at a push. How about contact persistent non attenders and either persuade them to swap places with a waiting list applicant or agree a sub-letting agreement for a preset period.

Far too lenient, these b*******s need to taught a lesson.

 

[TIL 1010 4,750]

1 minute ago, essex canary said:

Perhaps 2 out of 10 at a push. How about contact persistent non attenders and either persuade them to swap places with a waiting list applicant or agree a sub-letting agreement for a preset period.

How many more members of staff do you want to add to the payroll with yet another task you think should be carried out by the club ?

[Capt. Pants 4,250]

It will be interesting when IF we decide to rebuild the City Stand how many of those ST holders who currently don't bother to turn up suddenly insist on a seat for every game if they are told they don't or can't have one.

However I don't disagree that if having paid north of £500 for a ST then you have the privilege of deciding if to turn up or not, even if that means the seat remains empty and someone who badly wanted to go to the game can't. With limited capacity and such a high volume of STs/Capacity the club can't have it both ways.

That's one of the main benefits of a ST; convenience.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Capt. Pants

[Greavsy 2,415]

I believe the club do contact non attendees to discuss their seat availability.  

Obviously whilst club has their own tickets to sell, they are not going to sell a third parties.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Greavsy
Typing error.

[Well b back 3,217]

Don’t get this, we regularly don’t go, but nobody wants our tickets, even for free.

If we are in the playoffs, need to win games at the end of the season or playing Ipswich, loads of people will want our tickets, but whilst it is so boring, we will pick and choose which games we travel 340 mile round trip for.