I’ve had enough of Wagner but if he is to stay then

[Jim Smith 2,349]

Please god select Forshaw and realise this ridiculously open midfield DOES NOT WORK. Watch the highlights and observe how many chances they had, including at least two of the goals, involve them having got goalside of our central midfield and being able to run direct at our slow, lumbering centre backs.

it’s tantamount to negligence and has been throughout Webbers time at the club except for the season when we had Skipp.

the one game recently where we’ve really had control and were dominating the midfield was at Swansea until Wagner decided to turn it into a free for all shootout by taking off Forshaw.

Foreshaw needs to play alongside Kenny with Sara further forwarded. Kenny and Sara do not have the defensive game/physicality and discipline to play as a central midfield two. It’s so obvious and it’s so boring we are still having to say this so apologies for adding to the boredom!

 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,805]

...amazing how many can see this except the man in charge

...it will ultimately cost him his job

[shefcanary 2,492]

Wagner has to give Forshaw a full 90 minutes if only to see whether he should be persevered with in Wagner's current preferred set up. But, and this is controversial, he should replace McLean and play alongside Sara. We need a disciplined CDM, with Sara playing from deep to exploit the extra space this allows him, but getting forward to join attacks when we have concerted possession. Then play Kenny in the 10 role where his headless wanderings won't be so critical to the team.

Of course, if Forshaw then turns out not to be the answer, then Wagner will have to accept that his current set up will not work with the current available squad and find another system that this bunch can actually play well to. 

[Petriix 2,853]

I agree with your assessment of the problem, but I'm certain that Forshaw isn't the solution. Kenny and Sara is fine if the three attacking midfielders are deeper and narrower. We need to be more compact so that we're harder to break down.

At the moment we're effectively playing a 4-3-3 with a number 10 as well and that is tactical suicide, especially against a top side like Leeds.

We need to get our best players into the most dangerous positions so I want to see Rowe as the striker with Sara at 10, then we can play more defensively minded midfielders behind and generally be a lot tighter.

We're actually not a million miles away from getting it right, we're just lacking real quality in key areas (CDM and striker most obviously). 

[jaberry2 556]

14 minutes ago, Petriix said:

I agree with your assessment of the problem, but I'm certain that Forshaw isn't the solution. Kenny and Sara is fine if the three attacking midfielders are deeper and narrower. We need to be more compact so that we're harder to break down.

At the moment we're effectively playing a 4-3-3 with a number 10 as well and that is tactical suicide, especially against a top side like Leeds.

We need to get our best players into the most dangerous positions so I want to see Rowe as the striker with Sara at 10, then we can play more defensively minded midfielders behind and generally be a lot tighter.

We're actually not a million miles away from getting it right, we're just lacking real quality in key areas (CDM and striker most obviously). 

I really dont want to see a non striker as a striker. People are starting to suggest players play out of positions due to lack of credible performances from those starting, however Forshaw & Hwang (despite not seeing it already) have decent pedigree and we should play them & hope they can get match sharp.

Edited October 23, 2023 by jaberry2

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,865]

8 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

I really dont want to see a non striker as a striker. People are starting to suggest players play out of positions due to lack of credible performances from those starting, however Forshaw & Hwang (despite not seeing it already) have decent pedigree and we should play them & hope they can get match sharp.

Agreed; Rowe is excelling in his current position so I don't get the calls to shift him. 

[nutty nigel 7,649]

Foreshaw was forlornly chasing back probably 30 yards behind the ball when Leeds scored their third goal.

The biggest mistake we made all afternoon was to go all out for a winner at 2-2. A point would have been a good and fair result.

[Google Bot 3,334]

Biggest mistake he made was allowing players like Rowe to run on empty for 10 mins that's where the game really started to shift as we effectively were down to 10 men while they were refreshing and getting their backs up.

Should've pulled Rowe off and bought Sainz on. Don't care about this match fitness ****, he's fit enough and we are not anywhere near the fittest team in this league anyway as seen with players like Sainz, Onel etc. who are ****ed two thirds in.

We waited too long, and bought third choice players on the pitch when the opposition was loading up.

Was always going to be a tough match, but we could've got at least a point from that.  Really like Wagner a lot, but his stubbornness is starting to wind me up big time - of course, as with Farke, when all's going well it's a blessing - We just need our quality players back in this team.

[pete 320]

If Foshaw cannot get into our midfield, and another signing cannot force himself in that defence (Batth).  Then they must be truly awful and if so why were they signed.  Again peeing money up the wall Webber style. 

[Grick 7]

I'd be interested to know how people rate Ogwuru in the U21's. Someone looking to break into the first team fairly quickly or another slow burner like Idah potentially looking down the loan route? I appreciate that not all MCFC youngsters are Fodens in waiting but I'd have thought he had something going for him with that background. Worth a spot on the bench now given our dearth of attacking options?

[shefcanary 2,492]

1 minute ago, Grick said:

I'd be interested to know how people rate Ogwuru in the U21's. Someone looking to break into the first team fairly quickly or another slow burner like Idah potentially looking down the loan route? I appreciate that not all MCFC youngsters are Fodens in waiting but I'd have thought he had something going for him with that background. Worth a spot on the bench now given our dearth of attacking options?

Aboh seems ahead of Ogwuru at the moment. But rather than have 4 wingers on the bench, at least have one of the U23 strikers there.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,805]

29 minutes ago, pete said:

If Foshaw cannot get into our midfield, and another signing cannot force himself in that defence (Batth).  Then they must be truly awful and if so why were they signed.  Again peeing money up the wall Webber style. 

...and indeed if Springett is being brought off the bench ahead of Sainz and Fassnacht we van sdd two more to the 'dud' list.....headed by Hwang

[norfolkngood 1,092]

1 hour ago, Grick said:

I'd be interested to know how people rate Ogwuru in the U21's. Someone looking to break into the first team fairly quickly or another slow burner like Idah potentially looking down the loan route? I appreciate that not all MCFC youngsters are Fodens in waiting but I'd have thought he had something going for him with that background. Worth a spot on the bench now given our dearth of attacking options?

i would rather have him than Hwang 

He is our own so we will benefit , you never know with these young strikers gamble and he pops up with the winner and never looks back  

[Robert N. LiM 4,570]

7 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Please god select Forshaw and realise this ridiculously open midfield DOES NOT WORK. Watch the highlights and observe how many chances they had, including at least two of the goals, involve them having got goalside of our central midfield and being able to run direct at our slow, lumbering centre backs.

it’s tantamount to negligence and has been throughout Webbers time at the club except for the season when we had Skipp.

the one game recently where we’ve really had control and were dominating the midfield was at Swansea until Wagner decided to turn it into a free for all shootout by taking off Forshaw.

Foreshaw needs to play alongside Kenny with Sara further forwarded. Kenny and Sara do not have the defensive game/physicality and discipline to play as a central midfield two. It’s so obvious and it’s so boring we are still having to say this so apologies for adding to the boredom!

 

I have some sympathy for this view in theory but the bold bit above is exactly what we did in the last twenty minutes, and it was comfortably our worst period of the game. We were just as open defensively but created absolutely nothing going forward

[ZLF 275]

Forshaws decision as last man for the winning goal shows just how far away from being the defensive solution we need.   He was the last man should have held the line and presented a barrier but he ran forward chasing the ball he was never going to reach first and one simple pass down the wing and some woeful subsequent defending did for us again.

Forshaw is not the answer

[hogesar 9,773]

33 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

I have some sympathy for this view in theory but the bold bit above is exactly what we did in the last twenty minutes, and it was comfortably our worst period of the game. We were just as open defensively but created absolutely nothing going forward

Yes, one might argue momentum had shifted and it was top late but we didn't look like regaining any control.

5 hours ago, Petriix said:

I agree with your assessment of the problem, but I'm certain that Forshaw isn't the solution. Kenny and Sara is fine if the three attacking midfielders are deeper and narrower. We need to be more compact so that we're harder to break down.

At the moment we're effectively playing a 4-3-3 with a number 10 as well and that is tactical suicide, especially against a top side like Leeds.

We need to get our best players into the most dangerous positions so I want to see Rowe as the striker with Sara at 10, then we can play more defensively minded midfielders behind and generally be a lot tighter.

We're actually not a million miles away from getting it right, we're just lacking real quality in key areas (CDM and striker most obviously). 

I agree with your premise other than Rowe up front.

The other question is are the 3 behind us of enough quality to play narrower as i think you rightly state? For example we know an Onel or a Placheta will be let down by their first touch and control which they can get away with sometimes out wide. I think Fassnacht, Rowe and Sainz are all potentially able to. It suited technical untraditional wingers like Emi and Cantwell but does it suit our current?

[Jim Smith 2,349]

3 minutes ago, ZLF said:

Forshaws decision as last man for the winning goal shows just how far away from being the defensive solution we need.   He was the last man should have held the line and presented a barrier but he ran forward chasing the ball he was never going to reach first and one simple pass down the wing and some woeful subsequent defending did for us again.

Forshaw is not the answer

Chasing the game late on though. He may not be perfect but he’s the best we have for that role and im sure if on from the start would play with more discipline. He was probably playing in front of Kenny knowing Wagner. 

[Capt. Pants 4,298]

Forshaw might be better if he starts and gets up to speed along with everyone else on the pitch. He looked totally useless when he came on and the game was at full throttle.

To be fair Springett and Fassnacht were poor as well.