Our Adam

[mastoola 185]

Did anyone notice how he done for Ireland?   Didn't see anything so asking through interest.

[Greavsy 2,426]

No thread from CC?? 

[mastoola 185]

2 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

No thread from CC?? 

Is there?

[Greavsy 2,426]

11 minutes ago, mastoola said:

Is there?

Not seen it, but he usually starts one for most things......

[paddycanary 539]

Notched a nice early penalty but otherwise just ploughed a fairly lonely furrow, plodding around. Some decent touches/plays & did his bit defensively - probably a 6/10. Up against Virgil van Dijk tonight & mainly Rabiot & Hernandez against the French a few days ago so it doesn't get much harder than that I suppose. Ogbene did more offensively in both games from play. Shane Duffy could have the finger pointed at him for his positioning for both the Dutch goals, particularly the winner, but generally played well enough over the two games. He certainly won't be coming back fresh, that's for sure.

I think tonight's result is curtains for the Irish manager Stephen Kenny. There's lots of sympathy for him as Lady Luck has $hát on him from a height since his tenure began. But there's not even one result he can hang his hat on against decent opposition. Even when they play well, they find a way to lose. Ireland have been out of the mix at the halfway stage in the last three group campaigns & were arguably even worse in the Nations League competition. Damaging results losing to Finland twice, Armenia, Luxembourg & Greece back in June have done for him. The pick of players for Ireland are probably mid to lower Champo standard but you still need to nick a couple of wins and grind out a few draws. 

[Greavsy 2,426]

7 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

He really shouldn't be mocked.

I've recently known a forum to stop existing because people stopped posting.

If this forum had more traffic then he wouldn't be singled out.

Fun police have arrived. 

 

[mastoola 185]

5 minutes ago, paddycanary said:

Notched a nice early penalty but otherwise just ploughed a fairly lonely furrow, plodding around. Some decent touches/plays & did his bit defensively - probably a 6/10. Up against Virgil van Dijk tonight & mainly Rabiot & Hernandez against the French a few days ago so it doesn't get much harder than that I suppose. Ogbene did more offensively in both games from play. Shane Duffy could have the finger pointed at him for his positioning for both the Dutch goals, particularly the winner, but generally played well enough over the two games. He certainly won't be coming back fresh, that's for sure.

I think tonight's result is curtains for the Irish manager Stephen Kenny. There's lots of sympathy for him as Lady Luck has $hát on him from a height since his tenure began. But there's not even one result he can hang his hat on against decent opposition. Even when they play well, they find a way to lose. Ireland have been out of the mix at the halfway stage in the last three group campaigns & were arguably even worse in the Nations League competition. Damaging results losing to Finland twice, Armenia, Luxembourg & Greece back in June have done for him. The pick of players for Ireland are probably mid to lower Champo standard but you still need to nick a couple of wins and grind out a few draws. 

i think in our last game he should not of been substituted     i think he stared to be a player  i would of given min another 15 mins min

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by mastoola

[paddycanary 539]

2 minutes ago, mastoola said:

i think in our last game she should not of been substituted     i think he stared to be a player

I don't think Idah will ever be prolific like he was underage. But I also don't understand why people get on his back & give him a hard time. You can be critical without being a **. I think he could be an effective player at Championship level working in tandem with a partner up top if he can stay fit and do enough to earn a run of 10/12 games or more. Learning the dark arts from the likes of Barnes this season with Sargent out will hopefully stand to him in the years ahead. He's been unlucky with injuries when chances have arrived & hasn't clocked up the minutes he should have at this stage of his career given his trajectory. I haven't given up on him yet & I think he'll carve out a decent & respectable (if unspectacular!) career for himself over the next ten years. 

[Barham Blitz 661]

42 minutes ago, paddycanary said:

I don't think Idah will ever be prolific like he was underage. But I also don't understand why people get on his back & give him a hard time. You can be critical without being a **. I think he could be an effective player at Championship level working in tandem with a partner up top if he can stay fit and do enough to earn a run of 10/12 games or more. Learning the dark arts from the likes of Barnes this season with Sargent out will hopefully stand to him in the years ahead. He's been unlucky with injuries when chances have arrived & hasn't clocked up the minutes he should have at this stage of his career given his trajectory. I haven't given up on him yet & I think he'll carve out a decent & respectable (if unspectacular!) career for himself over the next ten years. 

It's often difficult for young strikers who rely on their physicality to make the transition to first team football and takes them longer than for example a Michael Owen type because they are used to being able to dominate age group defenders in a way they can't do against seasoned centre backs without experience of the dark arts and how to use that physicality.  Their key differentiator - the thing that makes them a weapon in Parma-speak - is no longer that different.  I suspect that we've offered the long contract to him for precisely this reason, to give him a chance to develop, because if the intangibles suddenly click the upside is significant.

That said, as I and many others have pointed out, Idah is a classic case of somebody who would have benefited from a long loan somewhere lower to learn his trade and gain that experience.  In a way it is a shame that we have chosen to rely on him as a third choice striker as we have done for a number of years now rather than get him some games at a lower level.  Similarly being a first (ish) choice striker in a struggling international team probably isn't enormously helpful with all of the attention that entails.  

I agree that he'll possibly end up eventually having a decent career somewhere - he has many of the raw attributes needed.  Just not sure that we can afford to give him the game time that would give him the chance to get himself to the next level as it doesn't look like it is going to happen particularly quickly.

[mastoola 185]

22 minutes ago, Barham Blitz said:

It's often difficult for young strikers who rely on their physicality to make the transition to first team football and takes them longer than for example a Michael Owen type because they are used to being able to dominate age group defenders in a way they can't do against seasoned centre backs without experience of the dark arts and how to use that physicality.  Their key differentiator - the thing that makes them a weapon in Parma-speak - is no longer that different.  I suspect that we've offered the long contract to him for precisely this reason, to give him a chance to develop, because if the intangibles suddenly click the upside is significant.

That said, as I and many others have pointed out, Idah is a classic case of somebody who would have benefited from a long loan somewhere lower to learn his trade and gain that experience.  In a way it is a shame that we have chosen to rely on him as a third choice striker as we have done for a number of years now rather than get him some games at a lower level.  Similarly being a first (ish) choice striker in a struggling international team probably isn't enormously helpful with all of the attention that entails.  

I agree that he'll possibly end up eventually having a decent career somewhere - he has many of the raw attributes needed.  Just not sure that we can afford to give him the game time that would give him the chance to get himself to the next level as it doesn't look like it is going to happen particularly quickly.

doesn't need a decent career because we are paying him millions   already has a pension

[Conrad 178]

7 hours ago, paddycanary said:

I don't think Idah will ever be prolific like he was underage. But I also don't understand why people get on his back & give him a hard time. You can be critical without being a **. I think he could be an effective player at Championship level working in tandem with a partner up top if he can stay fit and do enough to earn a run of 10/12 games or more. Learning the dark arts from the likes of Barnes this season with Sargent out will hopefully stand to him in the years ahead. He's been unlucky with injuries when chances have arrived & hasn't clocked up the minutes he should have at this stage of his career given his trajectory. I haven't given up on him yet & I think he'll carve out a decent & respectable (if unspectacular!) career for himself over the next ten years. 

The problem is, in the way that Norwich are set up currently, he has to score goals. We no longer have one prolific goal scorer so everyone has to contribute. Idah (currently), as one of the main focal points, more than most.

[BroadstairsR 2,203]

I can't speak for others, but I've finally given up on the lad as being the answer to our current needs. This is not a scapegoating, picking on our own or destroying his confidence stance or anything other than the fact that I am unable to have confidence in him being other than a 'reserve' player for the bench as it is populated nowadays. I have always tempered criticism with mitigating factors such as age, confidence levels, game time, injuries and promise but this has to end sometime. He seems to have contributed insufficient when last representing his club and country to the extent that he was pulled off early both times. This boy seems miles off of the standards set by some of the great strikers the club has had in the past. It's a long list too.

I also think that it was greatly remiss of the club not to have brought in that extra striker during the long Summer break as I and many on here advocated. Predictably enough the Sarge needs a long lay-off.

We now have to rely upon an ageing Korean footballer who nobody had heard of to come good. The signs seem reasonable, but we should never have been in this position in the first place.

Back to Idah, it does seem possible that, once a seasoned player, he could well become more than useful at City ... there is most certainly something there. That time seems sometime off though.

Edited September 11, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

Sarge was clearly earmarked as our 20 plus goal a season striker with Barnes and Idah chipping in. Ideally we would have signed another 20+ goal a season striker as cover or competition for Sarge. With our finances that wasn't going to happen.

The onus is now on Barnes as much as it is on Idah, probably more so in view of his experience. What we need to do is adapt our attacking play without Josh unless of course Hwang is seen as the direct replacement.

Moaning about Idah isn't the solution to the problem. This is as good as it gets until January, possibly longer, and it's up to Wagner and his coaching team to shuffle the pack and develop the players that he has signed.

[BroadstairsR 2,203]

Moaning?

Who said anything about another 20+ striker on the payroll? We have a scouting network which should surely have earmarked suitable but cheaper options after all.

Edited September 11, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

2 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Moaning?

Finally given up on the lad?

[BroadstairsR 2,203]

So that reasoned evaluation is 'moaning' then? 

If you say so, but I sense I'm not the only "moaner"  in respect to this player.

Edited September 11, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[BroadstairsR 2,203]

23 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Finally given up on the lad?

"Finally given up on the lad as being the answer to our current needs"

nb.

[BroadstairsR 2,203]

Jesus, Joseph, Mary and the wee donkey.

Slight (very) step back here due to inaccuracy. Didn't realise Ireland played last night and Idah scored from the spot.

Also: 

"The 22-year-old has struggled for form both domestically and internationally but caused problems for Liverpool's van Dijk, Nathan Ake and Matthijs de Ligt throughout the evening at the Aviva Stadium." 

PinkUn report.

[Badger 2,412]

"His team played with real endeavour, Idah giving Van Dijk a torrid examination in perhaps his best senior international display, but they were painfully exposed defensively by genuine quality for both goals and ultimately could not find the cutting edge."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/sep/10/kenny-under-fire-after-irelands-euro-hopes-all-but-finished-by-dutch-defeat

[Bigbrenn 61]

Could Adam be an Emile Hesky type player?

A popular player at Leicester and Livarpool but averaged a goal every 4 to 5 games. His value wasn't just limited to goalscoring but was a nuisance to opposing teams and his international stats of 62 games and 7 goals seems to reflect Adam's efforts.

In conclusion, a slow burner but when he pulls on the yellow top and gives 100%, he will always have my support.

[Ulfotto 643]

Giving him a loan is all a bit of a myth isn’t it. The guy broke into the team just before project restart scoring a hat trick against Preston. So scrape any chance for a loan in that season. Next season back in the championship again covid is about but he started the season ahead of Hugill scored on the opening day. His big issue was when Pukki was injured he stupidly got sent off then I think got a long term injury only returning at the end of the season to score in the last game. So no chance of a loan there. Next season was the back in the prem where again he was injured a lot and was actually very good when fit. So no chance of a loan. So the only season was really last year for a loan when given the background of his performances when fit the previous year sending him out on loan would have been a strange move in my opinion. I agree in principle a loan would have been a good move for him but I think the pandemic got in the way. Agree he was poor last year but this season he already has 3 goals hopefully there are more to come.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Ulfotto

[Robert N. LiM 4,481]

37 minutes ago, Badger said:

"His team played with real endeavour, Idah giving Van Dijk a torrid examination in perhaps his best senior international display, but they were painfully exposed defensively by genuine quality for both goals and ultimately could not find the cutting edge."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/sep/10/kenny-under-fire-after-irelands-euro-hopes-all-but-finished-by-dutch-defeat

The Guardian minute-by-minute report suggests he started the game well: the penalty, some good hassling of Van Dijk (suggesting that Wagner's high-energy style is rubbing off on him?) and a good pass to create a chance for someone else. There's no mention of him after the first 30 minutes, so either he faded, or Ireland did, or both. But it must have been a very good experience for him being up against van Dijk.

Think it's perfectly reasonable for people to have doubts about whether he can replace Sargent. But given that Hwang is going to take a while to get up to speed (with the game in England, with his own match fitness and with how the team plays) it looks likely that Idah is going to get what he's been missing in his stop-start City career so far - a run of starts. He's in a decent run of goalscoring form, so hopefully he can grab that chance.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Robert N. LiM

[BroadstairsR 2,203]

16 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

The Guardian minute-by-minute report suggests he started the game well: the penalty, some good hassling of Van Dijk (suggesting that Wagner's high-energy style is rubbing off on him?) and a good pass to create a chance for someone else. There's no mention of him after the first 30 minutes, so either he faded, or Ireland did, or both. But it must have been a very good experience for him being up against van Dijk.

Think it's perfectly reasonable for people to have doubts about whether he can replace Sargent. But given that Hwang is going to take a while to get up to speed (with the game in England, with his own match fitness and with how the team plays) it looks likely that Idah is going to get what he's been missing in his stop-start City career so far - a run of starts. He's in a decent run of goalscoring form, so hopefully he can grab that chance.

He can't be far off an appearance though given he was in his country's match-day squad, and he is a very experienced operator after all.

I predict he'll be given 10 minutes or more first time around and likely at the expense of AI, possibly Barnes, for one reason or the other.

[Robert N. LiM 4,481]

1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

He can't be far off an appearance though given he was in his country's match-day squad, and he is a very experienced operator after all.

I predict he'll be given 10 minutes or more first time around and likely at the expense of AI, possibly Barnes, for one reason or the other.

Yes, I agree with that entirely, but given our very demanding high-energy style, I suspect Hwang will make a few appearances from the bench before Wagner plays him from the start, giving Adam the first chance to stake a claim. (I think we're in agreement, basically!)

[TheGunnShow 5,995]

2 hours ago, Bigbrenn said:

Could Adam be an Emile Hesky type player?

A popular player at Leicester and Livarpool but averaged a goal every 4 to 5 games. His value wasn't just limited to goalscoring but was a nuisance to opposing teams and his international stats of 62 games and 7 goals seems to reflect Adam's efforts.

In conclusion, a slow burner but when he pulls on the yellow top and gives 100%, he will always have my support.

Good comparison, Heskey got a decent England career out of a willingness to really put himself about and be a complete nuisance, creating space for those behind him.

Idah needs to get Sargent's workrate, and he'd be capable of similar self-sacrifice up top.

[Ulfotto 643]

A better comparison might be Cameron Jerome. They seem similar type players.

[lake district canary 4,545]

3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Idah needs to get Sargent's workrate, and he'd be capable of similar self-sacrifice up top.

Its very noticeable the difference between Sargent and Idah.  Sargent is all action get in your face type player and a good and willing runner off the ball.  Idah is different, seems less pro-active, but for all that still a handful when he gets in amongst them. As others have said, Barnes should help him be more effective.

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

4 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Yes, I agree with that entirely, but given our very demanding high-energy style, I suspect Hwang will make a few appearances from the bench before Wagner plays him from the start, giving Adam the first chance to stake a claim. (I think we're in agreement, basically!)

Hopefully Hwang will figure for S Korea tomorrow. Not the same I know but at least it will be minutes on the pitch.

Assuming he had a full pre season with Forest he should be further forward than Sainz in that regard. Hopefully he can get up to speed pretty quickly.

 

[Rottingdean canary 118]

I watched most of the match.  Idah generally played very well against some top centre backs.  He took his penalty really well.  The big question marks for me were over the two occasions when he laid the ball off to Ogbene to take a shot at goal and both shots were blocked.  On both occasions, I wondered if a more confident (selfish?) striker would have taken a shot themselves - it looked to me as though Idah was in a good enough position to do so.  Of course, if Ogbene had scored then we would have praised Idah for the assist.

Duffy seemed to be calling the shots as captain - constantly directing other players.  He also made some strong challenges to stop Dutch attacks and generally looked a formidable defender.  On the down side, as paddycanary said, it seems he played the goalscorers onside for both Dutch goals.

Good that both players now have six days off before the Stoke game - they must both have been exhausted.  Rare for Idah to play a full 90 minutes +

[shefcanary 2,448]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Idah needs to get Sargent's workrate, and he'd be capable of similar self-sacrifice up top.

Idah needs to find an angry streak (albeit it controlled anger) - he's far too polite. Get that and really put the opposition under pressure a la WFLGH and his career will be successful.