No more incoming transfers confirmed?

[Badger 2,412]

38 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

..but in the middle of the park where it matters??...havent replaced Skipp...still havent replaced Tettey permenantly

... but we are playing a different system now that does not use a CDM. In possession one of the midfielders drops deeper to act as a play maker but it is done on a rotational basis, presumably to provide greater flexibility and to be less predictable.

[essex canary 507]

The challenge with all new signings is that they can hit the ground running. Maybe Sara, Nunez, Rashica and Tzolis can make valuable contributions this season but the initial problem is they and their colleagues were very costly at the outset and at that time not sufficiently settled.

[jaberry2 556]

10 minutes ago, essex canary said:

The challenge with all new signings is that they can hit the ground running. Maybe Sara, Nunez, Rashica and Tzolis can make valuable contributions this season but the initial problem is they and their colleagues were very costly at the outset and at that time not sufficiently settled.

I think our previous transfer model would always bare fruit at some stage, but just not immediately. Most of the players had never played abroad and were quite young & therefore quite high risk signings for the original outlay in fees. Sara has certainly found his feet now and I would be surprised if we can keep him longer than 12 months. Nunez I hope he has his breakthrough season. Rashica has proved whilst on loan he is the player we bought but we just havent seen at Norwich. Tzolis is an interesting one and looks more of a creator rather than a winger. It will be interesting to see how much he is used this season or sent out on loan again or sold.

 

[essex canary 507]

13 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

I think our previous transfer model would always bare fruit at some stage, but just not immediately. Most of the players had never played abroad and were quite young & therefore quite high risk signings for the original outlay in fees. Sara has certainly found his feet now and I would be surprised if we can keep him longer than 12 months. Nunez I hope he has his breakthrough season. Rashica has proved whilst on loan he is the player we bought but we just havent seen at Norwich. Tzolis is an interesting one and looks more of a creator rather than a winger. It will be interesting to see how much he is used this season or sent out on loan again or sold.

 

So the big question is can we capture enough of the fruit for NCFC before they move on to pastures new? That is the kind of question supporters have been raising eg. Buendia. The model may be fine if we can but only if. Perhaps the movement towards more experienced players is an acknowledgement that an element of rowing in a slightly different direction is required?

[jaberry2 556]

Just now, essex canary said:

So the big question is can we capture enough of the fruit for NCFC before they move on to pastures new? That is the kind of question supporters have been raising eg. Buendia. The model may be fine if we can but only if. Perhaps the movement towards more experienced players is an acknowledgement that an element of rowing in a slightly different direction is required?

I think there is part of that model still in play and current, but the club have clearly analysed the clubs which were promoted and how other teams have achieved promotion, hence the leaning towards (in part) to more experienced championship operators in Duffy, Stacey & Barnes. Then if you can add to that collective with a few technically adept players then you would stand a chance. 

We should be less leaky defensively than last season and if we click offensively at some stage, especially when Sainz is back and we remain relatively injury free I think we will have a decent campaign (playoffs).

[Feedthewolf 4,894]

3 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

I think there is part of that model still in play and current, but the club have clearly analysed the clubs which were promoted and how other teams have achieved promotion, hence the leaning towards (in part) to more experienced championship operators in Duffy, Stacey & Barnes. Then if you can add to that collective with a few technically adept players then you would stand a chance. 

We should be less leaky defensively than last season and if we click offensively at some stage, especially when Sainz is back and we remain relatively injury free I think we will have a decent campaign (playoffs).

Agreed. We're still signing the speculative youngsters (Fisher, Forsyth) but trying to use the bulk of our budget on making us as competitive as possible now.

I think that by capturing Maddison and Buendía in pretty quick succession, many of our fans have unrealistic expectations of how good that 'model' can be; those were two generational talents, and if we unearth another one like that in the next decade it'd be a huge bonus.

I am actually rather confident about this season; my main concern is not having a 20+ goalscorer to replace Pukki. Hopefully Sarge will step up, but neither Barnes nor Idah are that player. Having quality players is one thing; having an astute tactical setup is another.

However, the 'secret sauce' is in having players that are of a sufficient quality to successfully play a clearly defined system (a la Farke and Lambert). With Deano there seemed to be no discernible plan, the players didn't seem especially fit or motivated.

Wagner is clearly signing players to play an energetic high-press system, and while I don't think we're in HMS P*ss The League territory, I'd be disappointed if we were outside the top six.

[essex canary 507]

8 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

I think there is part of that model still in play and current, but the club have clearly analysed the clubs which were promoted and how other teams have achieved promotion, hence the leaning towards (in part) to more experienced championship operators in Duffy, Stacey & Barnes. Then if you can add to that collective with a few technically adept players then you would stand a chance. 

We should be less leaky defensively than last season and if we click offensively at some stage, especially when Sainz is back and we remain relatively injury free I think we will have a decent campaign (playoffs).

Sounds like a very reasonable assessment. Good if there have been some lessons learned. Benchmarking with other Clubs is important in doing that. Need to create leaders rather than followers.

[jaberry2 556]

1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

Agreed. We're still signing the speculative youngsters (Fisher, Forsyth) but trying to use the bulk of our budget on making us as competitive as possible now.

I think that by capturing Maddison and Buendía in pretty quick succession, many of our fans have unrealistic expectations of how good that 'model' can be; those were two generational talents, and if we unearth another one like that in the next decade it'd be a huge bonus.

I am actually rather confident about this season; my main concern is not having a 20+ goalscorer to replace Pukki. Hopefully Sarge will step up, but neither Barnes nor Idah are that player. Having quality players is one thing; having an astute tactical setup is another.

However, the 'secret sauce' is in having players that are of a sufficient quality to successfully play a clearly defined system (a la Farke and Lambert). With Deano there seemed to be no discernible plan, the players didn't seem especially fit or motivated.

Wagner is clearly signing players to play an energetic high-press system, and while I don't think we're in HMS P*ss The League territory, I'd be disappointed if we were outside the top six.

Its certainly the toughest championship table for a long time and you would expect the teams which have come down will be strong contenders for the top spots.

I think we'll do well to sneak into the playoffs. At least Wagner has got his feet under the table now and a full pre season, plus has now had time to implement his plan. There wont be much patience shown to him though if he fails to get results early in the season, so hopefully we can get off to a good start.

[Newtopia 519]

9 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Agreed. We're still signing the speculative youngsters (Fisher, Forsyth) but trying to use the bulk of our budget on making us as competitive as possible now.

I think that by capturing Maddison and Buendía in pretty quick succession, many of our fans have unrealistic expectations of how good that 'model' can be; those were two generational talents, and if we unearth another one like that in the next decade it'd be a huge bonus.

I am actually rather confident about this season; my main concern is not having a 20+ goalscorer to replace Pukki. Hopefully Sarge will step up, but neither Barnes nor Idah are that player. Having quality players is one thing; having an astute tactical setup is another.

However, the 'secret sauce' is in having players that are of a sufficient quality to successfully play a clearly defined system (a la Farke and Lambert). With Deano there seemed to be no discernible plan, the players didn't seem especially fit or motivated.

Wagner is clearly signing players to play an energetic high-press system, and while I don't think we're in HMS P*ss The League territory, I'd be disappointed if we were outside the top six.

That is an interesting view, I genuinely think Sarge will get 20 goals this season, he scored 13 last year, playing mostly out wide, and after the World Cup he was less impactful.  Given a full preseason, and playing as the focal point I would be surprised if he doesn’t get 20.  I am more worried about depth through our centre, 5 first team centre backs seems right but 2 are injured, and in the central position, we looked lost without Kenny and Gabriel in the side at the end of last season.

I am expecting Aarons and Rashica to go, and potentially buying another central midfielder, a right back, and loaning in a centre back.  Then I think we are ready to go.  Comforting for me that we are back to a 4 2 3 1 formation, although what they do from the kick off doesnt resemblance the Farke side……

OTBC

[Feedthewolf 4,894]

6 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

That is an interesting view, I genuinely think Sarge will get 20 goals this season, he scored 13 last year, playing mostly out wide, and after the World Cup he was less impactful.  Given a full preseason, and playing as the focal point I would be surprised if he doesn’t get 20.  I am more worried about depth through our centre, 5 first team centre backs seems right but 2 are injured, and in the central position, we looked lost without Kenny and Gabriel in the side at the end of last season.

I am expecting Aarons and Rashica to go, and potentially buying another central midfielder, a right back, and loaning in a centre back.  Then I think we are ready to go.  Comforting for me that we are back to a 4 2 3 1 formation, although what they do from the kick off doesnt resemblance the Farke side……

OTBC

Sarge certainly has the potential to do it, but he's the only one who does. He would 100% be starting as number 9 for me, with Barnes either starting in the 10 role or coming off the bench for added presence and impact (usually starting I would imagine).

Assuming Aarons and Rashica leave, I agree with your priorities, unless Wagner has been so impressed with Fisher that he is happy for him to act as backup to Stacey. Plus Sorensen can cover pretty much any defensive position as a third choice.

Regarding the central midfielder, assuming it's currently two from Sara, McLean, Gibbs and Sorensen for the two deeper roles; I really don't want Gibbs to get pushed too far down the pecking order as I think he's a great talent who could really shine this season.

[Newtopia 519]

1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

Sarge certainly has the potential to do it, but he's the only one who does. He would 100% be starting as number 9 for me, with Barnes either starting in the 10 role or coming off the bench for added presence and impact (usually starting I would imagine).

Assuming Aarons and Rashica leave, I agree with your priorities, unless Wagner has been so impressed with Fisher that he is happy for him to act as backup to Stacey. Plus Sorensen can cover pretty much any defensive position as a third choice.

Regarding the central midfielder, assuming it's currently two from Sara, McLean, Gibbs and Sorensen for the two deeper roles; I really don't want Gibbs to get pushed too far down the pecking order as I think he's a great talent who could really shine this season.

I agree, I think Gibbs could be a causality of our change in style, he is talented boy, but not sure he has the lungs to replace Sara or McLean, although that is not based on any quantifiable fact, so happy to be proved wrong.  He is a year older and a year smarter, so perhaps less puff and more thinking.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

Don’t we still need a defensive midfielder for the 3rd straight season? 

[Feedthewolf 4,894]

2 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Don’t we still need a defensive midfielder for the 3rd straight season? 

This was covered quite well by @BigFish on the previous page. Obviously it's just his opinion, but I think it is quite sound logic:

Not really if you have been paying attention to the structural changes to the tactics since Wagner arrived. Playing McLean deep is for when we have the ball, rather than when we don't. The shape of the team is designed for a full and high press when we don't. The result of this is there is no place for a classic DCM. The fan base have an obsession on this position being required for historical reasons. I fully expect that this tactical change will result in the team conceding fewer goals over the season than for many a season. So that isn't going to be the issue, that will be more about scoring them. Btw I see Sorenson getting very little game time this season (again).

[Terminally Yellow 2,485]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

Btw I see Sorenson getting very little game time this season (again).

...until our next crisis at centre back and he's drafted there to cover.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Terminally Yellow

[Feedthewolf 4,894]

1 minute ago, Terminally Yellow said:

...until our next crisis at center back and he's drafted there to cover.

Even if Omo stays, I'd expect us to get another CB in, maybe on loan.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

19 hours ago, Harry53 said:

My concern is we don't have enough cover at centre back. Grant is out, Andrew O might be sold,  another might be injured leaving us with 1 recognised cb.

Surely we need to sign someone?

We have consistently under Webber left ourselves a CB short so it would not surprise me if we don’t bring anyone in. Mind you that Warner looks a unit based on yesterday. Not sure how good he is. 

[Terminally Yellow 2,485]

6 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Even if Omo stays, I'd expect us to get another CB in, maybe on loan.

That would be very much against everything said by Wagner following yesterday's game.

[Feedthewolf 4,894]

Just now, Terminally Yellow said:

That would be very much against everything said by Wagner following yesterday's game.

As has been posited elsewhere, that could just be a ruse to strengthen our position in the transfer market.

Also, he said no more incomings unless there are outgoings, but we're likely to sell either Max or Milot (or both) in the coming days I reckon, which would give us a bit more flexibility.

And if Omo goes, we'd definitely sign at least one CB, as leaving us with just Duffy and Gibson would be suicidal. Maybe just a short-term loan until Hanley and/or Tomkinson are fit again... unless he really rates Jaden Warner, of course.

[Terminally Yellow 2,485]

12 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

As has been posited elsewhere, that could just be a ruse to strengthen our position in the transfer market.

Also, he said no more incomings unless there are outgoings, but we're likely to sell either Max or Milot (or both) in the coming days I reckon, which would give us a bit more flexibility.

And if Omo goes, we'd definitely sign at least one CB, as leaving us with just Duffy and Gibson would be suicidal. Maybe just a short-term loan until Hanley and/or Tomkinson are fit again... unless he really rates Jaden Warner, of course.

I suspect unless Omo goes that we are truly done in the transfer market. 

[jaberry2 556]

9 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

I suspect unless Omo goes that we are truly done in the transfer market. 

Im Omo goes it will be for a big transfer fee where I'd see multiple players coming in.

Edited July 26, 2023 by jaberry2

[Google Bot 3,329]

4 hours ago, Newtopia said:

I agree, I think Gibbs could be a causality of our change in style, he is talented boy, but not sure he has the lungs to replace Sara or McLean

I don't know if you're aware or not, but Gibbs is regarded as one of our fittest players, and the only outfield player to play full 120 mins yesterday?

[City 101 83]

Poorest squad of players for quite some time , if the end of last season is anything to go by useless manager and once again no money to spend on decent signings .Bottom half finish .

[Newtopia 519]

45 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I don't know if you're aware or not, but Gibbs is regarded as one of our fittest players, and the only outfield player to play full 120 mins yesterday?

Tbh I wasn’t, that is great, let’s hope he has a great season.

[hogesar 9,760]

9 minutes ago, City 101 said:

Poorest squad of players for quite some time , if the end of last season is anything to go by useless manager and once again no money to spend on decent signings .Bottom half finish .

This is another one of those posters who if they have predicted the above, we all need to lump on us getting promoted because the above poster predicted failure in both of Farke's promotion seasons, then before Farke got sacked said he could f*ck off back to Germany and wouldn't be missed...

Oh, he also thought Sara was a really poor foreign signing who was bang average at best 😉

 

[Feedthewolf 4,894]

2 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

I suspect unless Omo goes that we are truly done in the transfer market. 

Even if we sell Max and/or Milot? I doubt we're done, still over a month until the window closes.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

3 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

This was covered quite well by @BigFish on the previous page. Obviously it's just his opinion, but I think it is quite sound logic:

Not really if you have been paying attention to the structural changes to the tactics since Wagner arrived. Playing McLean deep is for when we have the ball, rather than when we don't. The shape of the team is designed for a full and high press when we don't. The result of this is there is no place for a classic DCM. The fan base have an obsession on this position being required for historical reasons. I fully expect that this tactical change will result in the team conceding fewer goals over the season than for many a season. So that isn't going to be the issue, that will be more about scoring them. Btw I see Sorenson getting very little game time this season (again).

I hope this is right. I don’t think it will be but I hope it is. I’ve seen little under Wagner so far to feel like we will be having a good season coming up. Again I will be more than happy if it’s amazing but I have a feeling we will be more likely to have sacked him before January than we are to win the league. I do hope I’m wrong though. 

[Feedthewolf 4,894]

1 minute ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

I hope this is right. I don’t think it will be but I hope it is. I’ve seen little under Wagner so far to feel like we will be having a good season coming up. Again I will be more than happy if it’s amazing but I have a feeling we will be more likely to have sacked him before January than we are to win the league. I do hope I’m wrong though. 

Oh, I'd definitely agree with that! Finishing in the top two would be absolutely remarkable given the strength of the teams coming down. I still think we've got a good chance of the play-offs, although given our form at the end of last season Wagner certainly needs to get off to a good start.

[Terminally Yellow 2,485]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

Even if we sell Max and/or Milot? I doubt we're done, still over a month until the window closes.

Yep. Max and Byram replaced (it seems) by Stacey and Fisher. Milot gone and replaced by Fassnacht and Tony Springett who the Pink Un lads stressed repeatedly had impressed and would remain. 

[Soldier on 168]

Doesn’t necessarily mean we wouldn’t use some of the money to recruit in other areas though does it ?

I agree it’s unlikely we sign a direct replacement for either of those two.

[Terminally Yellow 2,485]

Just now, Soldier on said:

Doesn’t necessarily mean we wouldn’t use some of the money to recruit in other areas though does it ?

I agree it’s unlikely we sign a direct replacement for either of those two.

Wagner has said no more transfers. I don't know how much clearer he needs to be.