World religion survey

[cambridgeshire canary 6,833]

17 hours ago, Indy said:

Religion and spirituality is all personal, if it makes people feel better and them in person better people then I like to think it’s great.

It’s not for me, I am too realistic to believe in it, I accepted death and life for what I believe it to be a long time ago, I don’t fear death and I love life, I have little sorrow for humanity but I feel abhorrent with the treatment of humanity to animals and the earth on a global scale, I hate waste and I love life, I respect law and order and I do my best every day to help those less fortunate when I can, my love for animals is well known and I fully appreciate individuality, I never judge people as I don’t know their lives and what they do may be a result of something more stressful.

Life is short, humanity is young and heading for extinction so really it’s al about you in your being and nothing else matters!👍

When you realize that life will always go on without you once you die and that our human lives are around 80 or so years and that the universe existed for 14 billion years without us prior to our birth you tend to figure out just how ridiculously short our lives are, nevermind that after we die the universe will go on forever.

Well, okay maybe not forever maybe around 1.7×10106 years until the heat death of the universe hits but hey ho 🤓

 

[Indy 3,323]

53 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

When you realize that life will always go on without you once you die and that our human lives are around 80 or so years and that the universe existed for 14 billion years without us prior to our birth you tend to figure out just how ridiculously short our lives are, nevermind that after we die the universe will go on forever.

Well, okay maybe not forever maybe around 1.7×10106 years until the heat death of the universe hits but hey ho 🤓

 

 

Now hang on buddy.....does heaven lie beyond the universe? Cause if it part of the universe you've just upset around 5 billion people! That's what I figure out at around 5 years old funny enough at a wedding while walking round a church yard in Prague. I couldn't understand the process of wasting time doing things which you don't enjoy, so my relationships which were toxic and jobs that I fall out of love with I changed...im good at saying enough is enough and making a change in my life when things started to pee me off. Hell even 7 years ago I gave up going to City every home game. Thus I live a happy and full life surrounding myself with happy good people. Life is short  and you should never feel obligated to people that's when some people take control of your life......

In all seriousness if people find comfort and solace in religion its to the benefit of everyone, if its use as a tool to brainwash and do harm for no real reason then its abhorrent! 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Indy

[FenwayFrank 2,469]

6 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

On the subject of religion, did anyone see the Rebecca Vardy documentary about the Jehova Wintnesses? Is it worth an hour of my time? 

Watched about 10 minutes and turned over, it came across as Vardy trying to tell everyone how horrible the JWs are

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

Religion is on the wane because of the long march of Cultural Marxism through the Institutions. Christianity was a fairly easy one to knock on the head, even the Archbishop of Canterbury is a Cultural Marxist these days and Christian texts are being taught less and less, and reaching fewer people than ever before, so not surprisingly people default to atheism. What will be interesting is to see how the Marxists intend to take on Islam as that religion is more fundamentalist in nature and will prove a tougher nut to crack.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,833]

8 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Religion is on the wane because of the long march of Cultural Marxism through the Institutions. Christianity was a fairly easy one to knock on the head, even the Archbishop of Canterbury is a Cultural Marxist these days and Christian texts are being taught less and less, and reaching fewer people than ever before, so not surprisingly people default to atheism. What will be interesting is to see how the Marxists intend to take on Islam as that religion is more fundamentalist in nature and will prove a tougher nut to crack.

Can you define Cultural Marxism for me? I did a little look on Wikipedia and all they say is that's it's a "far right antisemitic conspiracy theory"

Edited May 20, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[KiwiScot 1,489]

17 hours ago, Indy said:

Now hang on buddy.....does heaven lie beyond the universe?

If heaven is above us and hell below us, but the Earth is round then hell is the Earth and the universe is heaven.

[dylanisabaddog 5,021]

32 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

If heaven is above us and hell below us, but the Earth is round then hell is the Earth and the universe is heaven.

What's the position regarding dogs? I know they cross a rainbow bridge but where do they end up? I don't want to go to heaven if there are no dogs. 

[Herman 9,838]

57 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

What's the position regarding dogs? I know they cross a rainbow bridge but where do they end up? I don't want to go to heaven if there are no dogs. 

There is a dog heaven and the clouds are just white dog doo.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I've seen the movie and dogs reincarnate. Mother Nature is happy that animals might do but is quite happy to see the back of us.

I was discussing death with Mrs KG (no, I wasn't getting her prepared) and I wondered if it was like when you have a general anasthetic. You just drift off and thats it. I don't ever recall dreaming while under a general so I assume you just never wake up.

Edited May 21, 2023 by keelansgrandad

[Indy 3,323]

54 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I've seen the movie and dogs reincarnate. Mother Nature is happy that animals might do but is quite happy to see the back of us.

I was discussing death with Mrs KG (no, I wasn't getting her prepared) and I wondered if it was like when you have a general anasthetic. You just drift off and thats it. I don't ever recall dreaming while under a general so I assume you just never wake up.

Energy is a quantity that is conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed so energy can be stored and transferred only. To exist life needs energy and fuel thus when you go under in a controlled manner your still alive and energized, once you die we must assume that your life energy has to be transferred to something else, thus a concept of reincarnation is plausible.

Some people say the energy is our soul! Life is strange and really not worth the worry, as the only certainty is death.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

6 minutes ago, Indy said:

Energy is a quantity that is conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed so energy can be stored and transferred only. To exist life needs energy and fuel thus when you go under in a controlled manner your still alive and energized, once you die we must assume that your life energy has to be transferred to something else, thus a concept of reincarnation is plausible.

Some people say the energy is our soul! Life is strange and really not worth the worry, as the only certainty is death.

I am not a subscriber to religion, astrology etc. I am at best a sceptic. But one thing that puzzles me is that I do believe that sometimes I can see what I believe are called auras.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,833]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

I am not a subscriber to religion, astrology etc. I am at best a sceptic. But one thing that puzzles me is that I do believe that sometimes I can see what I believe are called auras.

Been to Specsavers recently?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Been to Specsavers recently?

Funnily enough, No. Although one of our golfing buddies has the Specsaver franchise in Redruth.

I went to see him and said my eyes were poor. He took me outside and asked me what it was in the sky. I told him the Sun. Its 93 million miles away he told me. How far do you want to see? Boom Boom. I thang you.

Edited May 21, 2023 by keelansgrandad

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

Scientifically, there's really nothing that is proven or disproven about existence outside of our corporeal lives.

Physics explains a lot, but it still hasn't got to grips with consciousness. Does our consciousness exist after our death? Does a record of our existence, our observations and our thoughts exist beyond our death? Conscious observation affects the behaviour of the physical universe. Sir Roger Penrose and Stephen Hameroff's ideas on consciousness being a Quantum-level phenomenon in the brain rather than simply electrical signals between synapses feels like it's on the right track to me, but proof's another thing.

More widely, simulation theory has some things to suggest that it could be the case that we do exist in a simulation. It has been postulated that the speed of light may be an indication of the limit of the processing capability of the system within which our simulation operates.

Religions may claim to have the answers and maybe they don't. Most religions tend to centre around a person and their thoughts about existence. Jesus, Mohammad, the Buddha, (L Ron Hubbard?) were all people that had ideas about existence beyond our mortal existence that persuaded other people around them at the time and caught on to become institutionalised religions that exert power over people's behaviour and enables others to exert power over others. However, their primary interest was about human behaviour in this existence.

The greed in religion is merely a manifestation of the greed of the people who control the institutions. Moving into the political, if you look at communism as an ideology, it's repeated failure comes down to the fact that it's an ideology that promotes fairness, but always finishes up being a tool for the greedy to manipulate its followers, just as with religion. As such, I don't think the failures of religious institutions is cause to reject religion in itself or the philosophical and ethical ideas that they have inspired. Like it or not, the secular humanism that most self-proclaimed atheists promote is an evolution of Christian humanism, which means it's inextricably dependent on Christian teachings, whatever anyone wants to say about 'sky daddies'. Ironically, I think most secular humanists miss the point that Christianity is more about the teachings of Jesus himself about how people should behave to make a decent society more than what God may or may not think about any given issue, and its his teachings that make up the foundation of their whole value system. In Christianity, God is literally considered 'unknowable'; it's Jesus that Christians believe in, just as it's Mohammed that Muslims believe in, and the Buddha who Buddhists believe in.

I think the thing i dislike most about atheism in its rejection of all religion is that the certainty with which it presents its views dismissing something where we simply can't really know smacks of a profoundly ignorant approach.

In summation, the existence or non-existence of a deity or deities is really a secondary question to the uncertainty over the point of our existence as conscious beings.

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[A Load of Squit 5,223]

"Scientifically, there's really nothing that is proven or disproven about existence outside of our corporeal lives."

PARK LIFE!

 

[Indy 3,323]

41 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

 think the thing i dislike most about atheism in its rejection of all religion is that the certainty with which it presents its views dismissing something where we simply can't really know smacks of a profoundly ignorant approach.

In summation, the existence or non-existence of a deity or deities is really a secondary question to the uncertainty over the point of our existence as conscious beings.

 

Why are atheists profoundly ignorant when no atheists are brain washed in killing others who don’t buy into a certain religion! I would say it’s completely the other way round those who buy into a mythical deity to kill other are more likely to be classed as profoundly ignorant LYB.

As I said from the start without any reason or real evidence religion is a personal choice and everyone has the right to choose, if it makes them better people great, gives them meaning to life then brilliant, as for your last point, there’s no point in life, it makes absolutely no sense as we as humans have only been around for a fraction of time, and we will all be dead once this planet expires.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Indy

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

27 minutes ago, Indy said:

Why are atheists profoundly ignorant when no atheists are brain washed in killing others who don’t buy into a certain religion! I would say it’s completely the other way round those who buy into a mythical deity to kill other are more likely to be classed as profoundly ignorant LYB.

As I said from the start without any reason or real evidence religion is a personal choice and everyone has the right to choose, if it makes them better people great, gives them meaning to life then brilliant, as for your last point, there’s no point in life, it makes absolutely no sense as we as humans have only been around for a fraction of time, and we will all be dead once this planet expires.

It's ignorant in that it professes certainty in an area where there can't be any certainty. Why do you think atheists can't kill others?

Che Guevara was an atheist and killed many in the name of his political beliefs. I think atheists potentially have the most freedom to do anything they like. Rape, murder, torture, anything else you can think of, all in the comfort of the belief that you can get away with it and you're comfortable with your own actions in this existence then you've got away with it period,  and that you're no worse than someone who dedicates their lives to good causes.

[TheGunnShow 6,027]

Hitchens's Razor is perfect for this sort of thing. What is surmised without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

As no-one's ever produced conclusive evidence of the presence of God (at most you basically end up with a God of the gaps where things that cannot be explained right now are attributed to a God), I will not have anything to do with an Abrahamic religion.

What I find really intriguing is that many of the more evangelist set essentially say God wants people to live a certain way. They're being far too cowardly and really mean that's what they want, but ascribe it to a higher power to make it sound good.

Edited May 29, 2023 by TheGunnShow

[Indy 3,323]

7 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It's ignorant in that it professes certainty in an area where there can't be any certainty. Why do you think atheists can't kill others?

Che Guevara was an atheist and killed many in the name of his political beliefs. I think atheists potentially have the most freedom to do anything they like. Rape, murder, torture, anything else you can think of, all in the comfort of the belief that you can get away with it and you're comfortable with your own actions in this existence then you've got away with it period,  and that you're no worse than someone who dedicates their lives to good causes.

Atheists don't kill in the name of a non existence deity......and it's not ignorant to profess certainty over something which has no proof! Do you believe in Fairies? The Force? or Santa? because the argument you make with such distain is absurd. Religion is only and can ever be a personal choice.

And for one Che Guevara there are thousands of Religious leaders and movements over the centuries who have killed, raped and tortured millions over the years in the name of religion! Your argument is very limited  LYB but then i know you and you only come on here to cause arguments! So we will disagree again.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

Atheists don't kill in the name of a non existence deity......and it's not ignorant to profess certainty over something which has no proof! Do you believe in Fairies? The Force? or Santa? because the argument you make with such distain is absurd. Religion is only and can ever be a personal choice.

And for one Che Guevara there are thousands of Religious leaders and movements over the centuries who have killed, raped and tortured millions over the years in the name of religion! Your argument is very limited  LYB but then i know you and you only come on here to cause arguments! So we will disagree again.

So what? If someone kills you, what does it matter what they did it in the name of? You're still dead...

My argument's not limited; it's yours that's limited because you make charges exclusively against 'religion' that can be applied to political ideology, and people simply doing things because they want to.

Che Guevara was just one example and one that I like because I'm really not a fan of communism and its materialist outlook, but he believed he was doing it in the name of a 'just cause'.

Atheism is also a personal choice to make your own judgement that you KNOW that there's nothing more beyond what we experience in our flesh and blood material existence. This in spite of the fact that we can't explain our own consciousness, nor can we explain why consciousness has a detectable effect on the behaviour of the universe simply through observation. I suppose you could also argue that atheism is arrogant as well as ignorant in its dismissal of these unanswered questions.

Carl Sagan stated that he sees no compelling evidence against the existence of a God. Voltaire believed in the value of religion in holding a society together. Is it coincidence that the increasing rejection of religion, or even any spiritual life,  seems to be running hand in hand with the decay of UK society?

[TheGunnShow 6,027]

23 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

So what? If someone kills you, what does it matter what they did it in the name of? You're still dead...

My argument's not limited; it's yours that's limited because you make charges exclusively against 'religion' that can be applied to political ideology, and people simply doing things because they want to.

Che Guevara was just one example and one that I like because I'm really not a fan of communism and its materialist outlook, but he believed he was doing it in the name of a 'just cause'.

Atheism is also a personal choice to make your own judgement that you KNOW that there's nothing more beyond what we experience in our flesh and blood material existence. This in spite of the fact that we can't explain our own consciousness, nor can we explain why consciousness has a detectable effect on the behaviour of the universe simply through observation. I suppose you could also argue that atheism is arrogant as well as ignorant in its dismissal of these unanswered questions.

Carl Sagan stated that he sees no compelling evidence against the existence of a God. Voltaire believed in the value of religion in holding a society together. Is it coincidence that the increasing rejection of religion, or even any spiritual life,  seems to be running hand in hand with the decay of UK society?

Since when did atheism dismiss those questions? As far as I see it, atheism accepts that there is no conclusive answer at the moment. It doesn't necessarily mean people know there's nothing beyond what is experienced, merely that the question cannot be conclusively answered at this moment in time, and probably not well into the future either.

The book Sophie's World has a quote in there, maybe attributed to Kant, saying "if the world were the size of an orange, we would still not be smart enough to fully understand it". That sums it up pithily.

[Indy 3,323]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

So what? If someone kills you, what does it matter what they did it in the name of? You're still dead...

My argument's not limited; it's yours that's limited because you make charges exclusively against 'religion' that can be applied to political ideology, and people simply doing things because they want to.

Che Guevara was just one example and one that I like because I'm really not a fan of communism and its materialist outlook, but he believed he was doing it in the name of a 'just cause'.

Atheism is also a personal choice to make your own judgement that you KNOW that there's nothing more beyond what we experience in our flesh and blood material existence. This in spite of the fact that we can't explain our own consciousness, nor can we explain why consciousness has a detectable effect on the behaviour of the universe simply through observation. I suppose you could also argue that atheism is arrogant as well as ignorant in its dismissal of these unanswered questions.

Carl Sagan stated that he sees no compelling evidence against the existence of a God. Voltaire believed in the value of religion in holding a society together. Is it coincidence that the increasing rejection of religion, or even any spiritual life,  seems to be running hand in hand with the decay of UK society?

Carry on arguing the toss, you're wrong! I don't believe in the 3000 odd gods, from Roman, Greek or Pagan times, which now no one worship, what happened there? Religion chases science, science is to prove a theory, religion ultimately is to control the masses by fear of not having an afterlife if you don't believe! wrath of a mythical being.

As I said from the start I don't go round preaching anti god hate, it's not for me, I have no proof, never have and I don't know which of the multiple religions, gods to believe in? Life is strange and has been here millions of year prior to man, to believe in most religions you have to question science and evolution!

I don't believe in it, never have and never will, my choice not ignorance just my choice based on my life and ideology. Those who wish to believe great, so stop calling atheist killers to fit your argument by making it political! Atheists don't kill in any name of!, unfortunately in this day and age religion is still open to fanatical people to do abhorrent things in the name of their God.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Indy

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

2 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Since when did atheism dismiss those questions? As far as I see it, atheism accepts that there is no conclusive answer at the moment. It doesn't necessarily mean people know there's nothing beyond what is experienced, merely that the question cannot be conclusively answered at this moment in time, and probably not well into the future either.

The book Sophie's World has a quote in there, maybe attributed to Kant, saying "if the world were the size of an orange, we would still not be smart enough to fully understand it". That sums it up pithily.

That's agnosticism.

[TheGunnShow 6,027]

Can still be an agnostic atheist. I think you're saying atheism is just gnostic atheism.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

So what? If someone kills you, what does it matter what they did it in the name of? You're still dead...

My argument's not limited; it's yours that's limited because you make charges exclusively against 'religion' that can be applied to political ideology, and people simply doing things because they want to.

Che Guevara was just one example and one that I like because I'm really not a fan of communism and its materialist outlook, but he believed he was doing it in the name of a 'just cause'.

Atheism is also a personal choice to make your own judgement that you KNOW that there's nothing more beyond what we experience in our flesh and blood material existence. This in spite of the fact that we can't explain our own consciousness, nor can we explain why consciousness has a detectable effect on the behaviour of the universe simply through observation. I suppose you could also argue that atheism is arrogant as well as ignorant in its dismissal of these unanswered questions.

Carl Sagan stated that he sees no compelling evidence against the existence of a God. Voltaire believed in the value of religion in holding a society together. Is it coincidence that the increasing rejection of religion, or even any spiritual life,  seems to be running hand in hand with the decay of UK society?

Religion is fading for other reasons than a decaying society. The main one being it just doesn't add up.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Religion is fading for other reasons than a decaying society. The main one being it just doesn't add up.

It's not really fading anywhere other than Western Europe.

[Nuff Said 5,179]

10 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Is it coincidence that the increasing rejection of religion, or even any spiritual life,  seems to be running hand in hand with the decay of UK society?

I think you’ll find that’s down to the Tories, not the rejection of religion.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

19 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I think you’ll find that’s down to the Tories, not the rejection of religion.

Tory governments are caused by the electorate, who collectively make up society.

[A Load of Squit 5,223]

Religion is state sponsored indoctrination.

 

[dylanisabaddog 5,021]

31 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Religion is state sponsored indoctrination.

 

The Catholic Church in particular was originally all about controlling women and poor people, although to be fair at least they didn't burn the poor. 

There is an argument that Thatcher hastened the decline of religion in the UK but it must be more complicated than that. Why hasn't the same thing happened in America? 

It would be virtually impossible for an openly atheist person to become American President but in the UK a devoutly religious politician would be viewed with suspicion.